Penguin Bio-Wheel power filters

[Gail Futoran]

I've been using these - varous sizes - for years
with no problems. I bought one of the new
style Penguin 100 and it croaked after about
a month. Marineland said they'd replace it
once I forwarded a receipt, and in the meantime
I bought another, preferring to have multiple
backups.

The new one croaked after a few days of
use. By "croaked", I mean following one of
our frequent but short power outages (rural
area), the filter apparently emptied of water
and stopped working. Restoring water in
the chamber did nothing. My old Penguins
(various sizes) keep chugging on with no
problems.

Has anyone else bought the new style
Penguins and had any problems with them?
Or is there something sneaky I'm missing
about using them?

Gail

[Koi-Lo]

"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
> The new one croaked after a few days of
> use. By "croaked", I mean following one of
> our frequent but short power outages (rural
> area), the filter apparently emptied of water
> and stopped working. Restoring water in
> the chamber did nothing. My old Penguins
> (various sizes) keep chugging on with no
> problems.
=========================
I also live in a rural area and have brief power outages. Sometimes the
Aquaclears restart by themselves and other times they don't. But they don't
burn out even though they will get hot. Some of my ACs are running since
1987 without even an impeller replacement.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[NetMax]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The new one croaked after a few days of
>> use. By "croaked", I mean following one of
>> our frequent but short power outages (rural
>> area), the filter apparently emptied of water
>> and stopped working. Restoring water in
>> the chamber did nothing. My old Penguins
>> (various sizes) keep chugging on with no
>> problems.
> =========================
> I also live in a rural area and have brief power outages. Sometimes
> the
> Aquaclears restart by themselves and other times they don't. But they
> don't
> burn out even though they will get hot. Some of my ACs are running
> since
> 1987 without even an impeller replacement.
> --
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...



That's a good heads-up for anyone who bought one recently. The new
models are the 100, 150, 200 and 350 and may all be equally affected.
I'm sorry, like Koi-lo, I have no immediate experience and only a few
suggestions for you. This might be a new problem for Marineland and they
are trying to figure it out. I would flip the filter around to the front
of the tank temporarily (or to a pail of water), operate it and then
unplug it to simulate a power failure. Check to see how far the water
level goes down.

If the impeller is high (close to the unpowered water line), then when it
powers up, it might not get the water flowing again. The water acts as
the lubricant and the cooling media for these designs, so without it,
they may fail (in different ways) if left to run dry. If this is the
case, then it's a design flaw, and you should upgrade to the 150 after
checking the position of the impeller is lower down. Getting replacement
100s might not be very useful (and manufacturers will sometimes go into
denial-mode ;~).

I think the early AquaClear Minis had a similar problem. Let me know if
this was any help.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Mr. Gardener]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 19:54:07 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
>> The new one croaked after a few days of
>> use. By "croaked", I mean following one of
>> our frequent but short power outages (rural
>> area), the filter apparently emptied of water
>> and stopped working. Restoring water in
>> the chamber did nothing. My old Penguins
>> (various sizes) keep chugging on with no
>> problems.
>=========================
>I also live in a rural area and have brief power outages. Sometimes the
>Aquaclears restart by themselves and other times they don't. But they don't
>burn out even though they will get hot. Some of my ACs are running since
>1987 without even an impeller replacement.

Maybe it's luck, maybe it's a design difference, but my Whispers have
always kicked back in after a power interruption. I'm just sayin' -
not intending to fuel a war between Whispers and Aquaclears. Some of
my best friends are Aquaclears. In fact, after my powerhead blew my
tank apart yesterday, I hung a huge Aquaclear, I don't remember the
model number, on the tank to give my Whisper a helping hand until the
dust settled.

-- Mr Gardener

[~Roy~]

Marineland bio wheelk power filters are good, however it only takes a
little junk on the impeeler on them to create problem which often
times results in overloading the motor causeing them to quit, totally
because it overheated....I went through 2 Penquins so far on a 55 gal
tank both had bad motors.......I naow run an Aqua Clear 110 on the
tank along with Hagen Aqua Clears surface skimmer attachment and and
its working just great, much easier to maintain and the filter media
is not costing me a small fortune to replace.


On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:33:42 GMT, "Gail Futoran"
> wrote:
>><>I've been using these - varous sizes - for years
>><>with no problems. I bought one of the new
>><>style Penguin 100 and it croaked after about
>><>a month. Marineland said they'd replace it
>><>once I forwarded a receipt, and in the meantime
>><>I bought another, preferring to have multiple
>><>backups.
>><>
>><>The new one croaked after a few days of
>><>use. By "croaked", I mean following one of
>><>our frequent but short power outages (rural
>><>area), the filter apparently emptied of water
>><>and stopped working. Restoring water in
>><>the chamber did nothing. My old Penguins
>><>(various sizes) keep chugging on with no
>><>problems.
>><>
>><>Has anyone else bought the new style
>><>Penguins and had any problems with them?
>><>Or is there something sneaky I'm missing
>><>about using them?
>><>
>><>Gail
>><>

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[~Roy~]

And you wonder why some restart flow and others do not.........your
not as smart as you claim to be are you Carol?



On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 19:54:07 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:
>><>
>><>"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
>><>> The new one croaked after a few days of
>><>> use. By "croaked", I mean following one of
>><>> our frequent but short power outages (rural
>><>> area), the filter apparently emptied of water
>><>> and stopped working. Restoring water in
>><>> the chamber did nothing. My old Penguins
>><>> (various sizes) keep chugging on with no
>><>> problems.
>><>=========================
>><>I also live in a rural area and have brief power outages. Sometimes the
>><>Aquaclears restart by themselves and other times they don't. But they don't
>><>burn out even though they will get hot. Some of my ACs are running since
>><>1987 without even an impeller replacement.

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Gill Passman]

~Roy~ wrote:
> And you wonder why some restart flow and others do not.........your
> not as smart as you claim to be are you Carol?
>
>
>
> On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 19:54:07 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>><>
>>><>"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
>>><>> The new one croaked after a few days of
>>><>> use. By "croaked", I mean following one of
>>><>> our frequent but short power outages (rural
>>><>> area), the filter apparently emptied of water
>>><>> and stopped working. Restoring water in
>>><>> the chamber did nothing. My old Penguins
>>><>> (various sizes) keep chugging on with no
>>><>> problems.
>>><>=========================
>>><>I also live in a rural area and have brief power outages. Sometimes the
>>><>Aquaclears restart by themselves and other times they don't. But they don't
>>><>burn out even though they will get hot. Some of my ACs are running since
>>><>1987 without even an impeller replacement.
>
>

Hi Roy,

I'm sure a lot of us would love to know why some of our pumps start up
immediately after a power outage and not others even when they are the
same make and model and even comparable ages (I have Fluvals)...and
indeed why one pump will start one time and not another (given that the
maintenance routine remains regular and the same on each pump)

From your recent postings I guess that the mechanics of all this is
something that interests you. Could you maybe please share some of this
expertise...

My question would be why do some of my Fluval externals start up
immediately with no intervention following a power outage but others
need manual priming? (Which is much the same as what Koi-Lo was wondering)

TIA
Gill

[Gail Futoran]

"~Roy~" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Marineland bio wheelk power filters are good, however it only takes a
> little junk on the impeeler on them to create problem which often
> times results in overloading the motor causeing them to quit, totally
> because it overheated....I went through 2 Penquins so far on a 55 gal
> tank both had bad motors.......I naow run an Aqua Clear 110 on the
> tank along with Hagen Aqua Clears surface skimmer attachment and and
> its working just great, much easier to maintain and the filter media
> is not costing me a small fortune to replace.

The problem is my latest Penguin Bio-Wheel is
brand new. It has no gunk anywhere. It was almost
as clean after a month's use (in a tank with no fish) as
it was right out of the box! But as I noted in my other
post, when I tried pressing down on the impeller
housing, that seemed to help.

The thing is my older model Penguin 100s (and
150s and 180 and all the Eclipses...) run like
champs! I think my disappointment is that the
"new" model Penguin, while an improvement in
some ways (quieter performance), seems to have
a fairly serious design flaw.

I am already thinking of switching to a different
power filter as the my old Penguins die (if they
ever die...). Your recommendation of the Hagen
Aqua Clear is very helpful. Thanks!

Gail

[Koi-Lo]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> I think the early AquaClear Minis had a similar problem. Let me know if
> this was any help.
=====================
When the impeller and well are "CLEAN" of slime they will start up on their
own. If there's slime they may not. I did a test this morning with two
freshly cleaned ACs and two that were slimy from a few weeks, maybe a
month's use. This was only done with 4 ACs (a small sample) so I don't know
if it applies to all ACs. One clean one started 9 times out of 10. The
other started all 10 times on it's own. The slimy ones didn't start once.
If someone else does this test I would love to know what their results were.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[NetMax]

"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
> "~Roy~" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> Marineland bio wheelk power filters are good, however it only takes a
>> little junk on the impeeler on them to create problem which often
>> times results in overloading the motor causeing them to quit, totally
>> because it overheated....I went through 2 Penquins so far on a 55 gal
>> tank both had bad motors.......I naow run an Aqua Clear 110 on the
>> tank along with Hagen Aqua Clears surface skimmer attachment and and
>> its working just great, much easier to maintain and the filter media
>> is not costing me a small fortune to replace.
>
> The problem is my latest Penguin Bio-Wheel is
> brand new. It has no gunk anywhere. It was almost
> as clean after a month's use (in a tank with no fish) as
> it was right out of the box! But as I noted in my other
> post, when I tried pressing down on the impeller
> housing, that seemed to help.
>
> The thing is my older model Penguin 100s (and
> 150s and 180 and all the Eclipses...) run like
> champs! I think my disappointment is that the
> "new" model Penguin, while an improvement in
> some ways (quieter performance), seems to have
> a fairly serious design flaw.
>
> I am already thinking of switching to a different
> power filter as the my old Penguins die (if they
> ever die...). Your recommendation of the Hagen
> Aqua Clear is very helpful. Thanks!
>
> Gail


In regards to the AquaClears, keep in mind that they don't really excel in
any category (imo). I like them and they are workhorses, but as biological
filters, they are not very good, as the flow rate is quite fast, and the
media doesn't have enough surface area. As mechanical filters, they have
great pick-up power, but are quite porous. As chemical filters, they are
ok, but again the high flow rate works against them. Chemical filtration
works best with slow moving water.

I like AquaClears because they are large and rugged. I don't use them for
chemical filtration, and I run double sponges which improves their
biological and mechanical characteristics. I also don't usually run a tank
on only an AquaClear, but that's me. I just like to depend on more than one
filter, regardless of the design or the manufacturer.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Rick]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "~Roy~" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Marineland bio wheelk power filters are good, however it only takes a
>>> little junk on the impeeler on them to create problem which often
>>> times results in overloading the motor causeing them to quit, totally
>>> because it overheated....I went through 2 Penquins so far on a 55 gal
>>> tank both had bad motors.......I naow run an Aqua Clear 110 on the
>>> tank along with Hagen Aqua Clears surface skimmer attachment and and
>>> its working just great, much easier to maintain and the filter media
>>> is not costing me a small fortune to replace.
>>
>> The problem is my latest Penguin Bio-Wheel is
>> brand new. It has no gunk anywhere. It was almost
>> as clean after a month's use (in a tank with no fish) as
>> it was right out of the box! But as I noted in my other
>> post, when I tried pressing down on the impeller
>> housing, that seemed to help.
>>
>> The thing is my older model Penguin 100s (and
>> 150s and 180 and all the Eclipses...) run like
>> champs! I think my disappointment is that the
>> "new" model Penguin, while an improvement in
>> some ways (quieter performance), seems to have
>> a fairly serious design flaw.
>>
>> I am already thinking of switching to a different
>> power filter as the my old Penguins die (if they
>> ever die...). Your recommendation of the Hagen
>> Aqua Clear is very helpful. Thanks!
>>
>> Gail
>
>
> In regards to the AquaClears, keep in mind that they don't really excel in
> any category (imo). I like them and they are workhorses, but as
> biological filters, they are not very good, as the flow rate is quite
> fast, and the media doesn't have enough surface area. As mechanical
> filters, they have great pick-up power, but are quite porous. As chemical
> filters, they are ok, but again the high flow rate works against them.
> Chemical filtration works best with slow moving water.
>
> I like AquaClears because they are large and rugged. I don't use them for
> chemical filtration, and I run double sponges which improves their
> biological and mechanical characteristics. I also don't usually run a
> tank on only an AquaClear, but that's me. I just like to depend on more
> than one filter, regardless of the design or the manufacturer.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

Just a side note, I used to run dual sponges on the AquaClears, but now I
put a piece of filter floss (the same thing I use on my sump set up) under
the sponge. This seems to "clean" the water much better and now I don't
clean the sponge at all and for added bio, I but a bag of ceramic things on
top of the sponge. The floss is dirt cheap and I just clean it off and every
forth or so time , I change it out.
Hope this helps.

[NetMax]

"Rick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "~Roy~" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marineland bio wheelk power filters are good, however it only takes
>>>> a
>>>> little junk on the impeeler on them to create problem which often
>>>> times results in overloading the motor causeing them to quit,
>>>> totally
>>>> because it overheated....I went through 2 Penquins so far on a 55
>>>> gal
>>>> tank both had bad motors.......I naow run an Aqua Clear 110 on the
>>>> tank along with Hagen Aqua Clears surface skimmer attachment and and
>>>> its working just great, much easier to maintain and the filter media
>>>> is not costing me a small fortune to replace.
>>>
>>> The problem is my latest Penguin Bio-Wheel is
>>> brand new. It has no gunk anywhere. It was almost
>>> as clean after a month's use (in a tank with no fish) as
>>> it was right out of the box! But as I noted in my other
>>> post, when I tried pressing down on the impeller
>>> housing, that seemed to help.
>>>
>>> The thing is my older model Penguin 100s (and
>>> 150s and 180 and all the Eclipses...) run like
>>> champs! I think my disappointment is that the
>>> "new" model Penguin, while an improvement in
>>> some ways (quieter performance), seems to have
>>> a fairly serious design flaw.
>>>
>>> I am already thinking of switching to a different
>>> power filter as the my old Penguins die (if they
>>> ever die...). Your recommendation of the Hagen
>>> Aqua Clear is very helpful. Thanks!
>>>
>>> Gail
>>
>>
>> In regards to the AquaClears, keep in mind that they don't really
>> excel in any category (imo). I like them and they are workhorses, but
>> as biological filters, they are not very good, as the flow rate is
>> quite fast, and the media doesn't have enough surface area. As
>> mechanical filters, they have great pick-up power, but are quite
>> porous. As chemical filters, they are ok, but again the high flow
>> rate works against them. Chemical filtration works best with slow
>> moving water.
>>
>> I like AquaClears because they are large and rugged. I don't use them
>> for chemical filtration, and I run double sponges which improves their
>> biological and mechanical characteristics. I also don't usually run a
>> tank on only an AquaClear, but that's me. I just like to depend on
>> more than one filter, regardless of the design or the manufacturer.
>> --
>> www.NetMax.tk
>>
>
> Just a side note, I used to run dual sponges on the AquaClears, but now
> I put a piece of filter floss (the same thing I use on my sump set up)
> under the sponge. This seems to "clean" the water much better and now I
> don't clean the sponge at all and for added bio, I but a bag of ceramic
> things on top of the sponge. The floss is dirt cheap and I just clean
> it off and every forth or so time , I change it out.
> Hope this helps.


If it works - great! I would've expected the floss to clog & choke the
filter too fast. The AquaClear's foam blocks can hold a 'ton' of crap
before they slow down. When I had one of my canister filters out for
servicing, I put all its ceramic noodles on the top of an AquaClear to
keep them 'fresh'. I don't know how well it worked (it would require a
controlled experiment, well outside my expertise).

The best filter system is one which never needs servicing (I've seen
these), and the 2nd best is one where all the filter media fill, saturate
or deplete at the same time (makes sense after thinking about it ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Mr. Gardener]

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:57:24 -0500, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
>> "~Roy~" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Marineland bio wheelk power filters are good, however it only takes a
>>> little junk on the impeeler on them to create problem which often
>>> times results in overloading the motor causeing them to quit, totally
>>> because it overheated....I went through 2 Penquins so far on a 55 gal
>>> tank both had bad motors.......I naow run an Aqua Clear 110 on the
>>> tank along with Hagen Aqua Clears surface skimmer attachment and and
>>> its working just great, much easier to maintain and the filter media
>>> is not costing me a small fortune to replace.
>>
>> The problem is my latest Penguin Bio-Wheel is
>> brand new. It has no gunk anywhere. It was almost
>> as clean after a month's use (in a tank with no fish) as
>> it was right out of the box! But as I noted in my other
>> post, when I tried pressing down on the impeller
>> housing, that seemed to help.
>>
>> The thing is my older model Penguin 100s (and
>> 150s and 180 and all the Eclipses...) run like
>> champs! I think my disappointment is that the
>> "new" model Penguin, while an improvement in
>> some ways (quieter performance), seems to have
>> a fairly serious design flaw.
>>
>> I am already thinking of switching to a different
>> power filter as the my old Penguins die (if they
>> ever die...). Your recommendation of the Hagen
>> Aqua Clear is very helpful. Thanks!
>>
>> Gail
>
>
>In regards to the AquaClears, keep in mind that they don't really excel in
>any category (imo). I like them and they are workhorses, but as biological
>filters, they are not very good, as the flow rate is quite fast, and the
>media doesn't have enough surface area. As mechanical filters, they have
>great pick-up power, but are quite porous. As chemical filters, they are
>ok, but again the high flow rate works against them. Chemical filtration
>works best with slow moving water.
>
>I like AquaClears because they are large and rugged. I don't use them for
>chemical filtration, and I run double sponges which improves their
>biological and mechanical characteristics. I also don't usually run a tank
>on only an AquaClear, but that's me. I just like to depend on more than one
>filter, regardless of the design or the manufacturer.

You may have just nailed down what I have been stumbling around. I
think I mentioned this morning that when my whispers need an extra
boost, I hang an aquaclear next to it for a few days. The Whispers
have a good sized bio sponge that doesn't need to be disturbed when
removing or replacing the biobags, which also carry a good bio load
that can be preserved for a couple of months by just rinsing the bags
gently in tank water. Their slower, and adjustable flow rate works in
favor of the biosponges. I think the two brands were made for each
other. I've been thinking about folding a Whisper bio bag into an
Aquaclear square for stronger mechanical filtration.

-- Mr Gardener

[NetMax]

"Mr. Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:57:24 -0500, "NetMax"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
>>> "~Roy~" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marineland bio wheelk power filters are good, however it only takes
>>>> a
>>>> little junk on the impeeler on them to create problem which often
>>>> times results in overloading the motor causeing them to quit,
>>>> totally
>>>> because it overheated....I went through 2 Penquins so far on a 55
>>>> gal
>>>> tank both had bad motors.......I naow run an Aqua Clear 110 on the
>>>> tank along with Hagen Aqua Clears surface skimmer attachment and and
>>>> its working just great, much easier to maintain and the filter media
>>>> is not costing me a small fortune to replace.
>>>
>>> The problem is my latest Penguin Bio-Wheel is
>>> brand new. It has no gunk anywhere. It was almost
>>> as clean after a month's use (in a tank with no fish) as
>>> it was right out of the box! But as I noted in my other
>>> post, when I tried pressing down on the impeller
>>> housing, that seemed to help.
>>>
>>> The thing is my older model Penguin 100s (and
>>> 150s and 180 and all the Eclipses...) run like
>>> champs! I think my disappointment is that the
>>> "new" model Penguin, while an improvement in
>>> some ways (quieter performance), seems to have
>>> a fairly serious design flaw.
>>>
>>> I am already thinking of switching to a different
>>> power filter as the my old Penguins die (if they
>>> ever die...). Your recommendation of the Hagen
>>> Aqua Clear is very helpful. Thanks!
>>>
>>> Gail
>>
>>
>>In regards to the AquaClears, keep in mind that they don't really excel
>>in
>>any category (imo). I like them and they are workhorses, but as
>>biological
>>filters, they are not very good, as the flow rate is quite fast, and
>>the
>>media doesn't have enough surface area. As mechanical filters, they
>>have
>>great pick-up power, but are quite porous. As chemical filters, they
>>are
>>ok, but again the high flow rate works against them. Chemical
>>filtration
>>works best with slow moving water.
>>
>>I like AquaClears because they are large and rugged. I don't use them
>>for
>>chemical filtration, and I run double sponges which improves their
>>biological and mechanical characteristics. I also don't usually run a
>>tank
>>on only an AquaClear, but that's me. I just like to depend on more
>>than one
>>filter, regardless of the design or the manufacturer.
>
> You may have just nailed down what I have been stumbling around. I
> think I mentioned this morning that when my whispers need an extra
> boost, I hang an aquaclear next to it for a few days. The Whispers
> have a good sized bio sponge that doesn't need to be disturbed when
> removing or replacing the biobags, which also carry a good bio load
> that can be preserved for a couple of months by just rinsing the bags
> gently in tank water. Their slower, and adjustable flow rate works in
> favor of the biosponges. I think the two brands were made for each
> other. I've been thinking about folding a Whisper bio bag into an
> Aquaclear square for stronger mechanical filtration.
>
> -- Mr Gardener

Absolutely, I'm always pairing up filters, usually of different types.
My smallest tank is running off of a canister and an HOB right now (an
old AquaClear 300). Another one is running on a canister and a
canister/UGF hybrid. I have one in planning which uses 4 sponge filters.
The larger the tank, the easier it is to run multiple filters. Once
established, these filters are too critical to their life-line to mess
around with only one (imo).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[~Roy~]

What I do if I have a filter failure is just pull the media and place
it in another filter...... I like lots of water flow myself, and with
a baffle in an AC hob its easy to restrict water flow.....I do it on
all my sal****er tanks, as I utilize that huge resovoir on the hob as
a fuge, and if current flow is too much out goes my pods
etc........]]]


On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 20:27:49 -0500, "NetMax"
> wrote:
>><>"Mr. Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>><>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:57:24 -0500, "NetMax"
>><>> > wrote:
>><>>
>><>>>"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
>><>>>> "~Roy~" > wrote in message
>><>>>> ...
>><>>>>>
>><>>>>>
>><>>>>> Marineland bio wheelk power filters are good, however it only takes
>><>>>>> a
>><>>>>> little junk on the impeeler on them to create problem which often
>><>>>>> times results in overloading the motor causeing them to quit,
>><>>>>> totally
>><>>>>> because it overheated....I went through 2 Penquins so far on a 55
>><>>>>> gal
>><>>>>> tank both had bad motors.......I naow run an Aqua Clear 110 on the
>><>>>>> tank along with Hagen Aqua Clears surface skimmer attachment and and
>><>>>>> its working just great, much easier to maintain and the filter media
>><>>>>> is not costing me a small fortune to replace.
>><>>>>
>><>>>> The problem is my latest Penguin Bio-Wheel is
>><>>>> brand new. It has no gunk anywhere. It was almost
>><>>>> as clean after a month's use (in a tank with no fish) as
>><>>>> it was right out of the box! But as I noted in my other
>><>>>> post, when I tried pressing down on the impeller
>><>>>> housing, that seemed to help.
>><>>>>
>><>>>> The thing is my older model Penguin 100s (and
>><>>>> 150s and 180 and all the Eclipses...) run like
>><>>>> champs! I think my disappointment is that the
>><>>>> "new" model Penguin, while an improvement in
>><>>>> some ways (quieter performance), seems to have
>><>>>> a fairly serious design flaw.
>><>>>>
>><>>>> I am already thinking of switching to a different
>><>>>> power filter as the my old Penguins die (if they
>><>>>> ever die...). Your recommendation of the Hagen
>><>>>> Aqua Clear is very helpful. Thanks!
>><>>>>
>><>>>> Gail
>><>>>
>><>>>
>><>>>In regards to the AquaClears, keep in mind that they don't really excel
>><>>>in
>><>>>any category (imo). I like them and they are workhorses, but as
>><>>>biological
>><>>>filters, they are not very good, as the flow rate is quite fast, and
>><>>>the
>><>>>media doesn't have enough surface area. As mechanical filters, they
>><>>>have
>><>>>great pick-up power, but are quite porous. As chemical filters, they
>><>>>are
>><>>>ok, but again the high flow rate works against them. Chemical
>><>>>filtration
>><>>>works best with slow moving water.
>><>>>
>><>>>I like AquaClears because they are large and rugged. I don't use them
>><>>>for
>><>>>chemical filtration, and I run double sponges which improves their
>><>>>biological and mechanical characteristics. I also don't usually run a
>><>>>tank
>><>>>on only an AquaClear, but that's me. I just like to depend on more
>><>>>than one
>><>>>filter, regardless of the design or the manufacturer.
>><>>
>><>> You may have just nailed down what I have been stumbling around. I
>><>> think I mentioned this morning that when my whispers need an extra
>><>> boost, I hang an aquaclear next to it for a few days. The Whispers
>><>> have a good sized bio sponge that doesn't need to be disturbed when
>><>> removing or replacing the biobags, which also carry a good bio load
>><>> that can be preserved for a couple of months by just rinsing the bags
>><>> gently in tank water. Their slower, and adjustable flow rate works in
>><>> favor of the biosponges. I think the two brands were made for each
>><>> other. I've been thinking about folding a Whisper bio bag into an
>><>> Aquaclear square for stronger mechanical filtration.
>><>>
>><>> -- Mr Gardener
>><>
>><>Absolutely, I'm always pairing up filters, usually of different types.
>><>My smallest tank is running off of a canister and an HOB right now (an
>><>old AquaClear 300). Another one is running on a canister and a
>><>canister/UGF hybrid. I have one in planning which uses 4 sponge filters.
>><>The larger the tank, the easier it is to run multiple filters. Once
>><>established, these filters are too critical to their life-line to mess
>><>around with only one (imo).

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[NetMax]

~Roy~ I have a question. email: thanks
--
www.NetMax.tk

"~Roy~" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> What I do if I have a filter failure is just pull the media and place
> it in another filter...... I like lots of water flow myself, and with
> a baffle in an AC hob its easy to restrict water flow.....I do it on
> all my sal****er tanks, as I utilize that huge resovoir on the hob as
> a fuge, and if current flow is too much out goes my pods
> etc........]]]
>
>
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 20:27:49 -0500, "NetMax"
> > wrote:
>>><>"Mr. Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>><>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:57:24 -0500, "NetMax"
>>><>> > wrote:
>>><>>
>>><>>>"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
>>><>>>> "~Roy~" > wrote in message
>>><>>>> ...
>>><>>>>>
>>><>>>>>
>>><>>>>> Marineland bio wheelk power filters are good, however it only
>>>takes
>>><>>>>> a
>>><>>>>> little junk on the impeeler on them to create problem which
>>>often
>>><>>>>> times results in overloading the motor causeing them to quit,
>>><>>>>> totally
>>><>>>>> because it overheated....I went through 2 Penquins so far on a
>>>55
>>><>>>>> gal
>>><>>>>> tank both had bad motors.......I naow run an Aqua Clear 110 on
>>>the
>>><>>>>> tank along with Hagen Aqua Clears surface skimmer attachment
>>>and and
>>><>>>>> its working just great, much easier to maintain and the filter
>>>media
>>><>>>>> is not costing me a small fortune to replace.
>>><>>>>
>>><>>>> The problem is my latest Penguin Bio-Wheel is
>>><>>>> brand new. It has no gunk anywhere. It was almost
>>><>>>> as clean after a month's use (in a tank with no fish) as
>>><>>>> it was right out of the box! But as I noted in my other
>>><>>>> post, when I tried pressing down on the impeller
>>><>>>> housing, that seemed to help.
>>><>>>>
>>><>>>> The thing is my older model Penguin 100s (and
>>><>>>> 150s and 180 and all the Eclipses...) run like
>>><>>>> champs! I think my disappointment is that the
>>><>>>> "new" model Penguin, while an improvement in
>>><>>>> some ways (quieter performance), seems to have
>>><>>>> a fairly serious design flaw.
>>><>>>>
>>><>>>> I am already thinking of switching to a different
>>><>>>> power filter as the my old Penguins die (if they
>>><>>>> ever die...). Your recommendation of the Hagen
>>><>>>> Aqua Clear is very helpful. Thanks!
>>><>>>>
>>><>>>> Gail
>>><>>>
>>><>>>
>>><>>>In regards to the AquaClears, keep in mind that they don't really
>>>excel
>>><>>>in
>>><>>>any category (imo). I like them and they are workhorses, but as
>>><>>>biological
>>><>>>filters, they are not very good, as the flow rate is quite fast,
>>>and
>>><>>>the
>>><>>>media doesn't have enough surface area. As mechanical filters,
>>>they
>>><>>>have
>>><>>>great pick-up power, but are quite porous. As chemical filters,
>>>they
>>><>>>are
>>><>>>ok, but again the high flow rate works against them. Chemical
>>><>>>filtration
>>><>>>works best with slow moving water.
>>><>>>
>>><>>>I like AquaClears because they are large and rugged. I don't use
>>>them
>>><>>>for
>>><>>>chemical filtration, and I run double sponges which improves their
>>><>>>biological and mechanical characteristics. I also don't usually
>>>run a
>>><>>>tank
>>><>>>on only an AquaClear, but that's me. I just like to depend on
>>>more
>>><>>>than one
>>><>>>filter, regardless of the design or the manufacturer.
>>><>>
>>><>> You may have just nailed down what I have been stumbling around. I
>>><>> think I mentioned this morning that when my whispers need an extra
>>><>> boost, I hang an aquaclear next to it for a few days. The Whispers
>>><>> have a good sized bio sponge that doesn't need to be disturbed
>>>when
>>><>> removing or replacing the biobags, which also carry a good bio
>>>load
>>><>> that can be preserved for a couple of months by just rinsing the
>>>bags
>>><>> gently in tank water. Their slower, and adjustable flow rate works
>>>in
>>><>> favor of the biosponges. I think the two brands were made for each
>>><>> other. I've been thinking about folding a Whisper bio bag into an
>>><>> Aquaclear square for stronger mechanical filtration.
>>><>>
>>><>> -- Mr Gardener
>>><>
>>><>Absolutely, I'm always pairing up filters, usually of different
>>>types.
>>><>My smallest tank is running off of a canister and an HOB right now
>>>(an
>>><>old AquaClear 300). Another one is running on a canister and a
>>><>canister/UGF hybrid. I have one in planning which uses 4 sponge
>>>filters.
>>><>The larger the tank, the easier it is to run multiple filters. Once
>>><>established, these filters are too critical to their life-line to
>>>mess
>>><>around with only one (imo).
>
> --
> \\\|///
> ( @ @ )
> -----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------
>
>
> oooO
> ---------( )----Oooo----------------
> \ ( ( )
> \_) ) /
> (_/
> The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Mr. Gardener]

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 20:27:49 -0500, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>"Mr. Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:57:24 -0500, "NetMax"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
>>>> "~Roy~" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marineland bio wheelk power filters are good, however it only takes
>>>>> a
>>>>> little junk on the impeeler on them to create problem which often
>>>>> times results in overloading the motor causeing them to quit,
>>>>> totally
>>>>> because it overheated....I went through 2 Penquins so far on a 55
>>>>> gal
>>>>> tank both had bad motors.......I naow run an Aqua Clear 110 on the
>>>>> tank along with Hagen Aqua Clears surface skimmer attachment and and
>>>>> its working just great, much easier to maintain and the filter media
>>>>> is not costing me a small fortune to replace.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is my latest Penguin Bio-Wheel is
>>>> brand new. It has no gunk anywhere. It was almost
>>>> as clean after a month's use (in a tank with no fish) as
>>>> it was right out of the box! But as I noted in my other
>>>> post, when I tried pressing down on the impeller
>>>> housing, that seemed to help.
>>>>
>>>> The thing is my older model Penguin 100s (and
>>>> 150s and 180 and all the Eclipses...) run like
>>>> champs! I think my disappointment is that the
>>>> "new" model Penguin, while an improvement in
>>>> some ways (quieter performance), seems to have
>>>> a fairly serious design flaw.
>>>>
>>>> I am already thinking of switching to a different
>>>> power filter as the my old Penguins die (if they
>>>> ever die...). Your recommendation of the Hagen
>>>> Aqua Clear is very helpful. Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Gail
>>>
>>>
>>>In regards to the AquaClears, keep in mind that they don't really excel
>>>in
>>>any category (imo). I like them and they are workhorses, but as
>>>biological
>>>filters, they are not very good, as the flow rate is quite fast, and
>>>the
>>>media doesn't have enough surface area. As mechanical filters, they
>>>have
>>>great pick-up power, but are quite porous. As chemical filters, they
>>>are
>>>ok, but again the high flow rate works against them. Chemical
>>>filtration
>>>works best with slow moving water.
>>>
>>>I like AquaClears because they are large and rugged. I don't use them
>>>for
>>>chemical filtration, and I run double sponges which improves their
>>>biological and mechanical characteristics. I also don't usually run a
>>>tank
>>>on only an AquaClear, but that's me. I just like to depend on more
>>>than one
>>>filter, regardless of the design or the manufacturer.
>>
>> You may have just nailed down what I have been stumbling around. I
>> think I mentioned this morning that when my whispers need an extra
>> boost, I hang an aquaclear next to it for a few days. The Whispers
>> have a good sized bio sponge that doesn't need to be disturbed when
>> removing or replacing the biobags, which also carry a good bio load
>> that can be preserved for a couple of months by just rinsing the bags
>> gently in tank water. Their slower, and adjustable flow rate works in
>> favor of the biosponges. I think the two brands were made for each
>> other. I've been thinking about folding a Whisper bio bag into an
>> Aquaclear square for stronger mechanical filtration.
>>
>> -- Mr Gardener
>
>Absolutely, I'm always pairing up filters, usually of different types.
>My smallest tank is running off of a canister and an HOB right now (an
>old AquaClear 300). Another one is running on a canister and a
>canister/UGF hybrid. I have one in planning which uses 4 sponge filters.
>The larger the tank, the easier it is to run multiple filters. Once
>established, these filters are too critical to their life-line to mess
>around with only one (imo).

This thread has got me thinking along the lines of pre-planning my
tanks in terms of which two filters to use. Two somewhat smaller
filters to complement each other, rather than attempting to find the
biggest powerhouse to do the complete job. I don't think that perfect
powerhouse has been invented yet. Water circulation is another
variable that can be enhanced by multiple filters and filter types. I
see two smaller filters as offering good circulation throughout the
tanks rather than a tsunami at one end and a still pond at the other.
Sometimes 2 Subaru Outbacks can do things a Hum Vee can only dream of.
For a time, I though the perfect solution might lie in canister
filters, and I still secretly wonder if the real answer might be found
in a custom built wet dry, but I don't have the space in the right
places to install much "away from tank" apparatus. I played with a
Magnum 350 with all the bells and whistles for a couple of years, it
had its good points, for sure, but it was far from perfect. And in
order to install it permanently I would have to cut some major holes
in a fine antique oak buffet which is the base for my 55.

Off Topic but Related - I've discovered that the Tetratec 500's intake
extension tube, when fully extended, only reaches half way down the
wall of the 55 - about a foot. The tube is built telescopically, in
order to lengthen or shorten it, you simply pull it or push it within
the outer tube. I see no way of adding an extension without sawing the
manufacturer's tube and splicing in another piece. I prefer my intake
about an inch above the gravel - as it is now, at 6 or 8 inches above
the gravel, I'm having difficulty keeping plants near it, because they
get drawn toward the intake. My planned back wall of Val is seriously
compromised. I've thought of adding a couple of slate structures to
block the suction between the intake and the plants, but I worry that
this might compromise the efficiency of the intake, permitting it to
draw water from only one direction. Comments and suggestions on this
are solicited and appreciated.

-- Mr Gardener

[~Roy~]

Since your pickup tube telescopes, why not just measure the various
sections for diameter, and find a diameter (if there is one) that will
work with the various ridgid tube under gravel filter tubes they sell
in various LFS's. I ran into that problem (not telescoping) but
insufficient length to reach bottom of tank so the strainer is about
1" above substarte. I could get it midwayt, or about 3 1/2" above. I
bought a piece of 1" ridgid undergravel filter tube (clear). It was
the same exact size OD and ID as my present tube, so it would not slip
fit, and I did not want a splice. I stuck the end of the new piece of
tube in hot boiling water and formed it over the existing stub end of
the U tube and allowed it to cool. Its as good as or better than
original extension tube would be. I then did the same hot water
treatment to form the lower end of the tube once it was cut to the
appropriate length and added the strainer piece. Works like a champ,
and it eliminated the individual sections of the HOB units original
pickuo tube....Regards


On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:29:20 -0500, Mr. Gardener
> wrote:
>><>On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 20:27:49 -0500, "NetMax"
> wrote:
>><>
>><>>"Mr. Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>><>>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:57:24 -0500, "NetMax"
>><>>> > wrote:
>><>>>
>><>>>>"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
>><>>>>> "~Roy~" > wrote in message
>><>>>>> ...
>><>>>>>>
>><>>>>>>
>><>>>>>> Marineland bio wheelk power filters are good, however it only takes
>><>>>>>> a
>><>>>>>> little junk on the impeeler on them to create problem which often
>><>>>>>> times results in overloading the motor causeing them to quit,
>><>>>>>> totally
>><>>>>>> because it overheated....I went through 2 Penquins so far on a 55
>><>>>>>> gal
>><>>>>>> tank both had bad motors.......I naow run an Aqua Clear 110 on the
>><>>>>>> tank along with Hagen Aqua Clears surface skimmer attachment and and
>><>>>>>> its working just great, much easier to maintain and the filter media
>><>>>>>> is not costing me a small fortune to replace.
>><>>>>>
>><>>>>> The problem is my latest Penguin Bio-Wheel is
>><>>>>> brand new. It has no gunk anywhere. It was almost
>><>>>>> as clean after a month's use (in a tank with no fish) as
>><>>>>> it was right out of the box! But as I noted in my other
>><>>>>> post, when I tried pressing down on the impeller
>><>>>>> housing, that seemed to help.
>><>>>>>
>><>>>>> The thing is my older model Penguin 100s (and
>><>>>>> 150s and 180 and all the Eclipses...) run like
>><>>>>> champs! I think my disappointment is that the
>><>>>>> "new" model Penguin, while an improvement in
>><>>>>> some ways (quieter performance), seems to have
>><>>>>> a fairly serious design flaw.
>><>>>>>
>><>>>>> I am already thinking of switching to a different
>><>>>>> power filter as the my old Penguins die (if they
>><>>>>> ever die...). Your recommendation of the Hagen
>><>>>>> Aqua Clear is very helpful. Thanks!
>><>>>>>
>><>>>>> Gail
>><>>>>
>><>>>>
>><>>>>In regards to the AquaClears, keep in mind that they don't really excel
>><>>>>in
>><>>>>any category (imo). I like them and they are workhorses, but as
>><>>>>biological
>><>>>>filters, they are not very good, as the flow rate is quite fast, and
>><>>>>the
>><>>>>media doesn't have enough surface area. As mechanical filters, they
>><>>>>have
>><>>>>great pick-up power, but are quite porous. As chemical filters, they
>><>>>>are
>><>>>>ok, but again the high flow rate works against them. Chemical
>><>>>>filtration
>><>>>>works best with slow moving water.
>><>>>>
>><>>>>I like AquaClears because they are large and rugged. I don't use them
>><>>>>for
>><>>>>chemical filtration, and I run double sponges which improves their
>><>>>>biological and mechanical characteristics. I also don't usually run a
>><>>>>tank
>><>>>>on only an AquaClear, but that's me. I just like to depend on more
>><>>>>than one
>><>>>>filter, regardless of the design or the manufacturer.
>><>>>
>><>>> You may have just nailed down what I have been stumbling around. I
>><>>> think I mentioned this morning that when my whispers need an extra
>><>>> boost, I hang an aquaclear next to it for a few days. The Whispers
>><>>> have a good sized bio sponge that doesn't need to be disturbed when
>><>>> removing or replacing the biobags, which also carry a good bio load
>><>>> that can be preserved for a couple of months by just rinsing the bags
>><>>> gently in tank water. Their slower, and adjustable flow rate works in
>><>>> favor of the biosponges. I think the two brands were made for each
>><>>> other. I've been thinking about folding a Whisper bio bag into an
>><>>> Aquaclear square for stronger mechanical filtration.
>><>>>
>><>>> -- Mr Gardener
>><>>
>><>>Absolutely, I'm always pairing up filters, usually of different types.
>><>>My smallest tank is running off of a canister and an HOB right now (an
>><>>old AquaClear 300). Another one is running on a canister and a
>><>>canister/UGF hybrid. I have one in planning which uses 4 sponge filters.
>><>>The larger the tank, the easier it is to run multiple filters. Once
>><>>established, these filters are too critical to their life-line to mess
>><>>around with only one (imo).
>><>
>><>This thread has got me thinking along the lines of pre-planning my
>><>tanks in terms of which two filters to use. Two somewhat smaller
>><>filters to complement each other, rather than attempting to find the
>><>biggest powerhouse to do the complete job. I don't think that perfect
>><>powerhouse has been invented yet. Water circulation is another
>><>variable that can be enhanced by multiple filters and filter types. I
>><>see two smaller filters as offering good circulation throughout the
>><>tanks rather than a tsunami at one end and a still pond at the other.
>><>Sometimes 2 Subaru Outbacks can do things a Hum Vee can only dream of.
>><>For a time, I though the perfect solution might lie in canister
>><>filters, and I still secretly wonder if the real answer might be found
>><>in a custom built wet dry, but I don't have the space in the right
>><>places to install much "away from tank" apparatus. I played with a
>><>Magnum 350 with all the bells and whistles for a couple of years, it
>><>had its good points, for sure, but it was far from perfect. And in
>><>order to install it permanently I would have to cut some major holes
>><>in a fine antique oak buffet which is the base for my 55.
>><>
>><>Off Topic but Related - I've discovered that the Tetratec 500's intake
>><>extension tube, when fully extended, only reaches half way down the
>><>wall of the 55 - about a foot. The tube is built telescopically, in
>><>order to lengthen or shorten it, you simply pull it or push it within
>><>the outer tube. I see no way of adding an extension without sawing the
>><>manufacturer's tube and splicing in another piece. I prefer my intake
>><>about an inch above the gravel - as it is now, at 6 or 8 inches above
>><>the gravel, I'm having difficulty keeping plants near it, because they
>><>get drawn toward the intake. My planned back wall of Val is seriously
>><>compromised. I've thought of adding a couple of slate structures to
>><>block the suction between the intake and the plants, but I worry that
>><>this might compromise the efficiency of the intake, permitting it to
>><>draw water from only one direction. Comments and suggestions on this
>><>are solicited and appreciated.
>><>
>><>-- Mr Gardener

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Mr. Gardener]

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:50:37 GMT, (~Roy~) wrote:

>
>Since your pickup tube telescopes, why not just measure the various
>sections for diameter, and find a diameter (if there is one) that will
>work with the various ridgid tube under gravel filter tubes they sell
>in various LFS's. I ran into that problem (not telescoping) but
>insufficient length to reach bottom of tank so the strainer is about
>1" above substarte. I could get it midwayt, or about 3 1/2" above. I
>bought a piece of 1" ridgid undergravel filter tube (clear). It was
>the same exact size OD and ID as my present tube, so it would not slip
>fit, and I did not want a splice. I stuck the end of the new piece of
>tube in hot boiling water and formed it over the existing stub end of
>the U tube and allowed it to cool. Its as good as or better than
>original extension tube would be. I then did the same hot water
>treatment to form the lower end of the tube once it was cut to the
>appropriate length and added the strainer piece. Works like a champ,
>and it eliminated the individual sections of the HOB units original
>pickuo tube....Regards
>
Good idea.

-- Mr Gardener

[NetMax]

"Mr. Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:50:37 GMT, (~Roy~) wrote:
>
>>
>>Since your pickup tube telescopes, why not just measure the various
>>sections for diameter, and find a diameter (if there is one) that will
>>work with the various ridgid tube under gravel filter tubes they sell
>>in various LFS's. I ran into that problem (not telescoping) but
>>insufficient length to reach bottom of tank so the strainer is about
>>1" above substarte. I could get it midwayt, or about 3 1/2" above. I
>>bought a piece of 1" ridgid undergravel filter tube (clear). It was
>>the same exact size OD and ID as my present tube, so it would not slip
>>fit, and I did not want a splice. I stuck the end of the new piece of
>>tube in hot boiling water and formed it over the existing stub end of
>>the U tube and allowed it to cool. Its as good as or better than
>>original extension tube would be. I then did the same hot water
>>treatment to form the lower end of the tube once it was cut to the
>>appropriate length and added the strainer piece. Works like a champ,
>>and it eliminated the individual sections of the HOB units original
>>pickuo tube....Regards
>>
> Good idea.
>
> -- Mr Gardener

If you were in my neighbourhood, I have a box of assorted plastic tubes
for just these purposes. You might need to be quick with the hot water
dip as some distort and compress more than expected. Practice on the
wrong size lengths.

Regarding the usage of multiple smaller filters, the recommendation I've
always given, is to achieve 150% filtering capacity (or greater). If we
assume the artificial filtration is doing the majority of the work (maybe
80%), then when one filter goes down, you are left with the tank's 20%
and the remaining filter which was carrying 40%, can ramp up to 75% (so
with one filter down, you're still at almost 100% capacity after 24
hours).

In regards to finding that the intake tube does not reach closer to the
substrate, I don't think that this is entirely accidental. Manufacturers
deal with the problem of clogged intakes in different ways, from
AquaClear's small grill with medium slots (power the debris through), to
Marineland's large intake grill area (suffer the slight loss in flow
while the debris decays). Keeping the intakes higher up ensures there is
less chance of blockage, especially important if the filter has fine
particle filtering or significant biological capacity (which I think
yours does). This is an example where you might want to find some
synergy between filter models. One strategy would be to leave your
Tetratec's intake high (even higher up than it is now), and install a
strong mechanical filter with high turbulence, low intakes and
non-proprietary washable media (sounds like an AC filter). hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Mr. Gardener]

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:01:57 -0500, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>"Mr. Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:50:37 GMT, (~Roy~) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Since your pickup tube telescopes, why not just measure the various
>>>sections for diameter, and find a diameter (if there is one) that will
>>>work with the various ridgid tube under gravel filter tubes they sell
>>>in various LFS's. I ran into that problem (not telescoping) but
>>>insufficient length to reach bottom of tank so the strainer is about
>>>1" above substarte. I could get it midwayt, or about 3 1/2" above. I
>>>bought a piece of 1" ridgid undergravel filter tube (clear). It was
>>>the same exact size OD and ID as my present tube, so it would not slip
>>>fit, and I did not want a splice. I stuck the end of the new piece of
>>>tube in hot boiling water and formed it over the existing stub end of
>>>the U tube and allowed it to cool. Its as good as or better than
>>>original extension tube would be. I then did the same hot water
>>>treatment to form the lower end of the tube once it was cut to the
>>>appropriate length and added the strainer piece. Works like a champ,
>>>and it eliminated the individual sections of the HOB units original
>>>pickuo tube....Regards
>>>
>> Good idea.
>>
>> -- Mr Gardener
>
>If you were in my neighbourhood, I have a box of assorted plastic tubes
>for just these purposes. You might need to be quick with the hot water
>dip as some distort and compress more than expected. Practice on the
>wrong size lengths.
>
>Regarding the usage of multiple smaller filters, the recommendation I've
>always given, is to achieve 150% filtering capacity (or greater). If we
>assume the artificial filtration is doing the majority of the work (maybe
>80%), then when one filter goes down, you are left with the tank's 20%
>and the remaining filter which was carrying 40%, can ramp up to 75% (so
>with one filter down, you're still at almost 100% capacity after 24
>hours).
>
>In regards to finding that the intake tube does not reach closer to the
>substrate, I don't think that this is entirely accidental. Manufacturers
>deal with the problem of clogged intakes in different ways, from
>AquaClear's small grill with medium slots (power the debris through), to
>Marineland's large intake grill area (suffer the slight loss in flow
>while the debris decays). Keeping the intakes higher up ensures there is
>less chance of blockage, especially important if the filter has fine
>particle filtering or significant biological capacity (which I think
>yours does). This is an example where you might want to find some
>synergy between filter models. One strategy would be to leave your
>Tetratec's intake high (even higher up than it is now), and install a
>strong mechanical filter with high turbulence, low intakes and
>non-proprietary washable media (sounds like an AC filter). hth

I probably have the tube I need, plus a few, in my box of old parts.
If not, my lfs is a neighbor and a good friend. And his old parts box
is huge. I've been thinking along the same lines as you - put the
tetra intake up high and the AC down low at the opposite end of the
tank. Maybe switch positions and place the tetra behind the crypts and
the down low AC by the vals. Maybe tomorrow. I'm not up for going
swimming today.

I talked with lfs a little while ago, he's gotten blue eyed gertrudes
in before, going to check on current availability. He's a killie nut.

-- Mr Gardener

[NetMax]

"Mr. Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:01:57 -0500, "NetMax"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Mr. Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:50:37 GMT, (~Roy~)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Since your pickup tube telescopes, why not just measure the various
>>>>sections for diameter, and find a diameter (if there is one) that
>>>>will
>>>>work with the various ridgid tube under gravel filter tubes they
>>>>sell
>>>>in various LFS's. I ran into that problem (not telescoping) but
>>>>insufficient length to reach bottom of tank so the strainer is about
>>>>1" above substarte. I could get it midwayt, or about 3 1/2" above. I
>>>>bought a piece of 1" ridgid undergravel filter tube (clear). It was
>>>>the same exact size OD and ID as my present tube, so it would not
>>>>slip
>>>>fit, and I did not want a splice. I stuck the end of the new piece of
>>>>tube in hot boiling water and formed it over the existing stub end of
>>>>the U tube and allowed it to cool. Its as good as or better than
>>>>original extension tube would be. I then did the same hot water
>>>>treatment to form the lower end of the tube once it was cut to the
>>>>appropriate length and added the strainer piece. Works like a champ,
>>>>and it eliminated the individual sections of the HOB units original
>>>>pickuo tube....Regards
>>>>
>>> Good idea.
>>>
>>> -- Mr Gardener
>>
>>If you were in my neighbourhood, I have a box of assorted plastic tubes
>>for just these purposes. You might need to be quick with the hot water
>>dip as some distort and compress more than expected. Practice on the
>>wrong size lengths.
>>
>>Regarding the usage of multiple smaller filters, the recommendation
>>I've
>>always given, is to achieve 150% filtering capacity (or greater). If
>>we
>>assume the artificial filtration is doing the majority of the work
>>(maybe
>>80%), then when one filter goes down, you are left with the tank's 20%
>>and the remaining filter which was carrying 40%, can ramp up to 75% (so
>>with one filter down, you're still at almost 100% capacity after 24
>>hours).
>>
>>In regards to finding that the intake tube does not reach closer to the
>>substrate, I don't think that this is entirely accidental.
>>Manufacturers
>>deal with the problem of clogged intakes in different ways, from
>>AquaClear's small grill with medium slots (power the debris through),
>>to
>>Marineland's large intake grill area (suffer the slight loss in flow
>>while the debris decays). Keeping the intakes higher up ensures there
>>is
>>less chance of blockage, especially important if the filter has fine
>>particle filtering or significant biological capacity (which I think
>>yours does). This is an example where you might want to find some
>>synergy between filter models. One strategy would be to leave your
>>Tetratec's intake high (even higher up than it is now), and install a
>>strong mechanical filter with high turbulence, low intakes and
>>non-proprietary washable media (sounds like an AC filter). hth
>
> I probably have the tube I need, plus a few, in my box of old parts.
> If not, my lfs is a neighbor and a good friend. And his old parts box
> is huge. I've been thinking along the same lines as you - put the
> tetra intake up high and the AC down low at the opposite end of the
> tank. Maybe switch positions and place the tetra behind the crypts and
> the down low AC by the vals. Maybe tomorrow. I'm not up for going
> swimming today.
>
> I talked with lfs a little while ago, he's gotten blue eyed gertrudes
> in before, going to check on current availability. He's a killie nut.
>
> -- Mr Gardener

Good luck with that. I think I could write a short book on how to
disguise underwater plumbing (shades of fanaticism, must be the Dutch in
me... Dutch aquariums... *groan* ;~). You are almost only limited by
your imagination. In one tank I brought all vertical pipes down a
'chimney' of random pieces of slate into a small area which had a rock
tier to hold the substrate to a higher level. Inside this section, I 'T'
connected out to horizontal pieces with a 'J' elbow terminated by an
intake grill (pointing _up_ out of the substrate). I filled the tiered
section with substrate and planted tall plants here (further hiding any
evidence of vertical piping and the heater). Around the intakes, I used
low slow growing plants (Anubius, short Echinodorous, Crypts - yes they
grow slow for me) to 'filter' larger leaves which came loose, and then
scattered a variety of thin stone fingers (some strategically in front of
the intakes). Worked a charm.

On a current tank, I connected a canister intake to a UGF plate
integrated into a styrofoam structure, and then used very sparse coarse
gravel over it, to act as an automatic gravel vacuum, rather than a UGF.
This one works ~ok~, but I underestimated the amount of gph I need, so
I'll be upgrading the canister to something bigger.

Current project has 4 sponge filters hidden into yet *another* styrofoam
structure. All I will have to hide is about 3" of 2 black electrical
wires. I can do that :-).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[David]

I have recently gotten one of the 'new' Penguin 100 filters, and it is
working fine. I am trying it as the only filtration on a 20 g. tank
that I just set up. Noise is a concern for me and it is very quiet.
Hopefully this filter will provide enough filtration for the tank,
without having to add another filters.

I also am going to be setting up a 29 g. and also want to use a Penguin
as the only filtation. For this tank I'll use the next size larger
Penguin.

Any thoughts on if the Penguin will be enough filtration for these
tanks? I've only just put a couple barbs in the 20 g. to start the
cycle.

Thanks

[NetMax]

"David" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I have recently gotten one of the 'new' Penguin 100 filters, and it is
> working fine. I am trying it as the only filtration on a 20 g. tank
> that I just set up. Noise is a concern for me and it is very quiet.
> Hopefully this filter will provide enough filtration for the tank,
> without having to add another filters.
>
> I also am going to be setting up a 29 g. and also want to use a Penguin
> as the only filtation. For this tank I'll use the next size larger
> Penguin.
>
> Any thoughts on if the Penguin will be enough filtration for these
> tanks? I've only just put a couple barbs in the 20 g. to start the
> cycle.
>
> Thanks


I think we would need more information, such as whether it's a planted or
unplanted tank, what type of fish and how many fish.

Planted = less biological filtration needed and generally less mechanical
filtration needed too.
Active fish which are big eaters = more biological and mechanical
filtration needed.
More fish = more of everything, but you really need to consider their
mass and the amount of food being fed.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Mr. Gardener]

On 19 Feb 2006 16:01:04 -0800, "David" > wrote:

>I have recently gotten one of the 'new' Penguin 100 filters, and it is
>working fine. I am trying it as the only filtration on a 20 g. tank
>that I just set up. Noise is a concern for me and it is very quiet.
>Hopefully this filter will provide enough filtration for the tank,
>without having to add another filters.
>
>I also am going to be setting up a 29 g. and also want to use a Penguin
>as the only filtation. For this tank I'll use the next size larger
>Penguin.
>
>Any thoughts on if the Penguin will be enough filtration for these
>tanks? I've only just put a couple barbs in the 20 g. to start the
>cycle.
>
>Thanks

I'm not going to attempt to answer your question, there are others
here that are much more familiar with specific models and brands. But
we've been discussing HOBs for several days, weighing pros and cons
and sizes and combinations. A point that I have been meaning to ask
about is the ratings that the companies who make these filters put on
their boxes. Suitable for up to 30 gallons, or 100 gallons. I almost
always select a filter that is rated for up to twice the size of the
tank I hang it on, sometimes even larger. I wonder if the advertised
rates are really worth anything, if they would be accurate in a
perfectly managed tank only, if some of my problems with mini tsunamis
in my tanks would be alleviated if I dropped down a few sizes in my
filters and stuck with the manufacturer's recommendations.

-- Mr Gardener

[Larry Blanchard]

Mr. Gardener wrote:

> I almost
> always select a filter that is rated for up to twice the size of the
> tank I hang it on, sometimes even larger. I wonder if the advertised
> rates are really worth anything, if they would be accurate in a
> perfectly managed tank only, if some of my problems with mini tsunamis
> in my tanks would be alleviated if I dropped down a few sizes in my
> filters and stuck with the manufacturer's recommendations.

I've decided to go with filters even smaller than recommended because of
the "tsunamis" effect. Seems to work fine in my planted tanks.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[NetMax]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> Mr. Gardener wrote:
>
>> I almost
>> always select a filter that is rated for up to twice the size of the
>> tank I hang it on, sometimes even larger. I wonder if the advertised
>> rates are really worth anything, if they would be accurate in a
>> perfectly managed tank only, if some of my problems with mini tsunamis
>> in my tanks would be alleviated if I dropped down a few sizes in my
>> filters and stuck with the manufacturer's recommendations.
>
> I've decided to go with filters even smaller than recommended because of
> the "tsunamis" effect. Seems to work fine in my planted tanks.
>
> --
> It's turtles, all the way down

Turbulence and filtration are actually at odds with each other in many
regards (mechanical, biological and chemical filtration all work better at a
lower flow rate per sq.in. of media. I would see about reducing the flow
rate (many filters are adjustable) or diverting and distributing the
turbulence (using longer spray bars, or multiple return heads). I make most
of my spray bars. That way I can stretch them the length of the tank, and
use slightly larger holes (less back-pressure & less trouble with clogging.
hth
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Eric]

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:51:04 -0600, Mr. Gardener wrote
(in article >):


> I'm not going to attempt to answer your question, there are others
> here that are much more familiar with specific models and brands. But
> we've been discussing HOBs for several days, weighing pros and cons
> and sizes and combinations. A point that I have been meaning to ask
> about is the ratings that the companies who make these filters put on
> their boxes. Suitable for up to 30 gallons, or 100 gallons. I almost
> always select a filter that is rated for up to twice the size of the
> tank I hang it on, sometimes even larger. I wonder if the advertised
> rates are really worth anything, if they would be accurate in a
> perfectly managed tank only, if some of my problems with mini tsunamis
> in my tanks would be alleviated if I dropped down a few sizes in my
> filters and stuck with the manufacturer's recommendations.


If the fish seem uncomfortable with the water flow, then switch to a smaller
filter. Otherwise, I don't see how running a higher flow-rate filter hurts
anything. Personally, I think that anything above 4 or 5 tank turnovers per
hour for a HOB, or 3 or 4 for a canister is excessive. If you can't keep your
water quality good with these rates, you have too many fish. The reason that
canisters require lower turnovers is that the water has much greater contact
with filter media.

Netmax says that filter media contact is more important than flow rate, and
given sufficient flow for oxygenation, I agree. However, if you then imagine
that some huge DIY filter with a low flow rate is the answer, I think a
better solution would be to get a bigger tank with lots of plans and
decorations providing surface area for bacteria and run a regular filter.

-E

[Mr. Gardener]

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 07:12:16 GMT, Eric > wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:51:04 -0600, Mr. Gardener wrote
>(in article >):
>
>
>> I'm not going to attempt to answer your question, there are others
>> here that are much more familiar with specific models and brands. But
>> we've been discussing HOBs for several days, weighing pros and cons
>> and sizes and combinations. A point that I have been meaning to ask
>> about is the ratings that the companies who make these filters put on
>> their boxes. Suitable for up to 30 gallons, or 100 gallons. I almost
>> always select a filter that is rated for up to twice the size of the
>> tank I hang it on, sometimes even larger. I wonder if the advertised
>> rates are really worth anything, if they would be accurate in a
>> perfectly managed tank only, if some of my problems with mini tsunamis
>> in my tanks would be alleviated if I dropped down a few sizes in my
>> filters and stuck with the manufacturer's recommendations.
>
>
>If the fish seem uncomfortable with the water flow, then switch to a smaller
>filter. Otherwise, I don't see how running a higher flow-rate filter hurts
>anything. Personally, I think that anything above 4 or 5 tank turnovers per
>hour for a HOB, or 3 or 4 for a canister is excessive. If you can't keep your
>water quality good with these rates, you have too many fish. The reason that
>canisters require lower turnovers is that the water has much greater contact
>with filter media.
>
>Netmax says that filter media contact is more important than flow rate, and
>given sufficient flow for oxygenation, I agree. However, if you then imagine
>that some huge DIY filter with a low flow rate is the answer, I think a
>better solution would be to get a bigger tank with lots of plans and
>decorations providing surface area for bacteria and run a regular filter.
>
>-E

I agree wholeheartedly about the contact with media importance. I
spent some time yesterday with a planted 55 that I've been wrestling
with several filter combinations in. It's a relatively new tank, 6 or
8 weeks. I would have had no problems if I had simply hung my big
Tetratec in the center of the back of the tank, but I didn't want it
there, it interfered with tall plants like Val, and I don't like
looking at tubes. The two outlets are deceivingly powerful, I'm
thankful they can be rotated and aimed wherever I like. I have it at
the far end of the tank, and was not satisfied with the circulation at
the opposite end. I hung a big Aquaclear down there, but was getting
more flow than I needed and the filter really wasn't doing much,
filtration wise. My powerhead story is documented elsewhere, probably
under the header Tsunami. I finally got it right yesterday, I think,
by removing the high performing AquaClear and installing one of the
smaller Whispers. I adjusted intake tubes and flow rates while I had
my wife stand back and watch the plants - and we twiddled to the point
where I have very gentle movement of the plant leaves throughout the
tank with no plants leaning toward either filter intake. As the plants
grow and things get rearranged over time, I plan to use the same guide
for adjusting filters. More is not always better, as long as at least
one of the filters can handle the entire load if the other is knocked
out, the second filter is just free extra biological bed space. With
an adjustable flow rate to provide just enough circulation without
blowing or sucking too hard.

This is a good time and good tank for me to be focusing on these
issues, since I am just now close to completing the initial cycling
and ready to add more fish and increase the bioload. So this is at the
top of my mind while I fool with it. I have an old 29 that has been on
auto pilot for 10 years, heavily planted, filter so coated and packed
with moss and whatever that it is barely functioning beyond a trickle,
which seems to be enough. It's been getting partial water changes once
a month, or less. A dozen or so platies have kept the population
stable, and a 15 year old banjo cat sticks his head out of the sand
every few weeks to remind me that he is still there. This tank is at
the opposite end of the cycle that is just beginning in the new tank,
and yes, I know the water is soft and acid as, but it's the biological
action that has kept it going for all these years. I'm rejuvenating it
now, by the way, with massive water changes and a new filter.

So I'm adding my thirdsies to you and Net Max. Biological and media
contact is the bottom line.

-- Mr Gardener