Feeding...

[jazz]

Hello,

I'm new to fish keeping. I have 5 inches of tropical fish in a 6 gallon
tank and have been given widely differing advice on feeding from my two
local fish shops. On said a whole 1cm cube of brine shrimp every two
days, another said five flakes of regular fishfood twice a day
supplimented with treats. I know it's important not to feed too much
so I've been erring on the side of caution but my fish are absolutely
rampant for food when I give it. Can any one give me any advice on the
best way to feed them?

(I have 3 pentazona barbs at about 2.5 cm and 2 tiny bagrus type
catfish (ornatus?) at about 1.5 cm - I was advised by my fish shop
that the pentazona barbs would not get bigger than they are, would be
happy in a group of three and were fine for a 6 gallon tank. Having
checked all this on the internet when I got home with the fish I'm not
sure I've been correctly advised. If I've understood it correctly they
need a group of 4 minimum, a large tank because they like to dash about
and they get to be 5 cm. Hmmm I hope they will be OK.)

Thank-you JAZZ

[David Zopf]

"jazz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello,
>
> I'm new to fish keeping. I have 5 inches of tropical fish in a 6 gallon
> tank and have been given widely differing advice on feeding from my two
> local fish shops. On said a whole 1cm cube of brine shrimp every two
> days, another said five flakes of regular fishfood twice a day
> supplimented with treats. I know it's important not to feed too much
> so I've been erring on the side of caution but my fish are absolutely
> rampant for food when I give it. Can any one give me any advice on the
> best way to feed them?
>
I think you're probably feeding them well. Sparingly and with variety is
the best guidance for feeding omnivores like your barbs. Keep a few things
in mind; Its really really hard to starve a fish. Captive fish are beggars,
to the last fin. Behavior at feeding time is _never_ an indicator of how
appropriate the quantity of food you are serving is... Track your water
quality parameters, too. High phosphates or nitrates may be an indication
of a heavy feeding hand (a lot better indicator than begging fish, anyways
;-).

> (I have 3 pentazona barbs at about 2.5 cm and 2 tiny bagrus type
> catfish (ornatus?) at about 1.5 cm - I was advised by my fish shop
> that the pentazona barbs would not get bigger than they are, would be
> happy in a group of three and were fine for a 6 gallon tank. Having
> checked all this on the internet when I got home with the fish I'm not
> sure I've been correctly advised. If I've understood it correctly they
> need a group of 4 minimum, a large tank because they like to dash about
> and they get to be 5 cm. Hmmm I hope they will be OK.)

You are right, 5-bands can max out at 2 inches. The cats might get a little
bigger, too. Is this your breed?

http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/hyalobagrus_flavus.html

....or is this your breed?

http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/bagrus_meridionalis.htm

Get those cats ID-ed! If you've got something which will grow bigger, you
need to plan for that (either return the fish now for some panda cories, or
otherwise plan for their eventual growth).

Assuming your cats will remain under 2 inches, you will still be looking at
a total of 10 inches of adult fish , or more. Note, the "inches of fish" is
just a general guide, and a poor one at that. Taking the fish's mass
("girthy" fish count for more... an inch of Pearl Gourami doesn't equal an
inch of neon tetra) and dietary habits into account (carnivores and messy
eaters should have more water than others), as well as its behavior, like
the swimming preference you mentioned, is a much better indicator. I think
your fish will eventually outgrow your current tank.

Ahh, the slippery slope of fishkeeping... I suggest you think about a
20-ish gallon (75-80 liter) setup in the coming year, or so. Your adult
barbs and bagrus will be very happy in there (plenty of free swimming space,
more tank bottom for the cats), the tank will be a lot more stable, and
there'll be a bit of room for some tankmates, which you've probably already
been eye-ing.

About the "four minimum" rule, every group is different, but less
aggresive barbs like your five-bands can get by in a smaller group. The
"gang of four" minimum is more for the more aggresive fin-nipping barbs, and
is designed to disperse natural aggressions across a greater number of group
members. Five-bands are generally less aggresive with nipping, so you will
probably be alright in that respect.

Regards
DaveZ
Atom Weaver

[Dick]

On 23 Feb 2006 11:27:52 -0800, "jazz" > wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I'm new to fish keeping. I have 5 inches of tropical fish in a 6 gallon
>tank and have been given widely differing advice on feeding from my two
>local fish shops. On said a whole 1cm cube of brine shrimp every two
>days, another said five flakes of regular fishfood twice a day
>supplimented with treats. I know it's important not to feed too much
>so I've been erring on the side of caution but my fish are absolutely
>rampant for food when I give it. Can any one give me any advice on the
>best way to feed them?
>
>(I have 3 pentazona barbs at about 2.5 cm and 2 tiny bagrus type
>catfish (ornatus?) at about 1.5 cm - I was advised by my fish shop
>that the pentazona barbs would not get bigger than they are, would be
>happy in a group of three and were fine for a 6 gallon tank. Having
>checked all this on the internet when I got home with the fish I'm not
>sure I've been correctly advised. If I've understood it correctly they
>need a group of 4 minimum, a large tank because they like to dash about
>and they get to be 5 cm. Hmmm I hope they will be OK.)
>
>Thank-you JAZZ

I find your the question one of the hardest I live with. I have 5
tanks ranging from 75 gallon to 10 gallon. I have struggled with the
feeding question for over 3 years. Just last month I over fed the
fish in the 75 gallon tank and it went milky.

I only feed flake food, so can give you know feeding tips for the kind
of food you are using. For me, the problem comes from wanting to be
sure enough food is available for every fish, plus I like to watch
them eat. I am my fish worst enemy. I remind myself that fish can go
without food for days even weeks. Then I remind myself I can clear
the milkiness with partial water changes.

Experiment, but know you can correct the problem if you do overfeed.

dick

[Mr. Gardener]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 05:16:30 -0600, Dick >
wrote:
>
>I find your the question one of the hardest I live with. I have 5
>tanks ranging from 75 gallon to 10 gallon. I have struggled with the
>feeding question for over 3 years. Just last month I over fed the
>fish in the 75 gallon tank and it went milky.
>
>I only feed flake food, so can give you know feeding tips for the kind
>of food you are using. For me, the problem comes from wanting to be
>sure enough food is available for every fish, plus I like to watch
>them eat. I am my fish worst enemy. I remind myself that fish can go
>without food for days even weeks. Then I remind myself I can clear
>the milkiness with partial water changes.
>
>Experiment, but know you can correct the problem if you do overfeed.
>
>dick

If the grand master intended for us to feed the precise amout every
time, s/he wouldn't have given us corys and gravel vacs.

-- Mr Gardener

[jazz]

David Zopf wrote:

> I think you're probably feeding them well. Sparingly and with variety is
> the best guidance for feeding omnivores like your barbs. Keep a few things
> in mind; Its really really hard to starve a fish. Captive fish are beggars,
> to the last fin. Behavior at feeding time is _never_ an indicator of how
> appropriate the quantity of food you are serving is... Track your water
> quality parameters, too. High phosphates or nitrates may be an indication
> of a heavy feeding hand (a lot better indicator than begging fish, anyways
> ;-).

Hmmm, point taken. It's hard to resist them though - they seem to beg
at the glass when I walk up to the tank, especially if they had a brine
shrimp treat at their last meal. I guess what I'm trying is 5 flakes
of about 0.7cm square twice a day and every other day a small
additional snack of either brine shrimp or bloodworm (just enough so
that all traces are gone in < 5 min). Do you think that sounds OK?
I've done some water testing and it's at Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm,
nitrate 20ppm (just above tap water here.) Oh BTW I have loads of
trumpet snails and they seem to clean EVERYTHING.


> You are right, 5-bands can max out at 2 inches. The cats might get a little
> bigger, too. Is this your breed?
>
> http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/hyalobagrus_flavus.html
>
> ...or is this your breed?
>
> http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/bagrus_meridionalis.htm

> Get those cats ID-ed! If you've got something which will grow bigger, you
> need to plan for that (either return the fish now for some panda cories, or
> otherwise plan for their eventual growth).


I'm pretty sure the chaps at the shop said it was this one
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=23084

It was Panda Cory's that I originally asked for (I love their 2 little
black blobs) but the shop chaps said that the barbs would nip the
pandas because they had a black dorsal fin and I would be better off
with these. I felt sad at the time because I had been hoping for the
pandas for ages but now I've seen how lively and interesting these
little guys are I would probably go for these next time. They even
swim in and out of my plants cleaning them! One of them plays in the
bubbles sometimes, swimming in near the bottom and then shooting up to
the top. But most of the time they both flit around eating a bit of
something here and a bit there.



> Assuming your cats will remain under 2 inches, you will still be looking at
> a total of 10 inches of adult fish , or more. Note, the "inches of fish" is
> just a general guide, and a poor one at that. Taking the fish's mass
> ("girthy" fish count for more... an inch of Pearl Gourami doesn't equal an
> inch of neon tetra) and dietary habits into account (carnivores and messy
> eaters should have more water than others), as well as its behavior, like
> the swimming preference you mentioned, is a much better indicator. I think
> your fish will eventually outgrow your current tank.
>
> Ahh, the slippery slope of fishkeeping... I suggest you think about a
> 20-ish gallon (75-80 liter) setup in the coming year, or so. Your adult
> barbs and bagrus will be very happy in there (plenty of free swimming space,
> more tank bottom for the cats), the tank will be a lot more stable, and
> there'll be a bit of room for some tankmates, which you've probably already
> been eye-ing.

I've already been looking for another tank. I've really been bitten by
this fish keeping bug - it's so additictive! I though that 20 gallons
would be good, then I could transfer all these fish into it, add some
bright orange platies and then perhaps use the old little tank for a
betta and some corys.
What I don't understand is why I am so addicted to all this?

> About the "four minimum" rule, every group is different, but less
> aggresive barbs like your five-bands can get by in a smaller group. The
> "gang of four" minimum is more for the more aggresive fin-nipping barbs, and
> is designed to disperse natural aggressions across a greater number of group
> members. Five-bands are generally less aggresive with nipping, so you will
> probably be alright in that respect.

That's a relief. On their second day they seems slightly aggresive
with each other and one kept hiding in the weed from the other 2 but
they seem to have sorted out who's boss now and shoal quite happliy
with no more chasing or nipping. I think I have 2 males and 1 female
which I suspect is less than ideal. (It was the female which was
hiding - if I've got this right, she has lighter less distinct stripes
than the other two.)

Thanks ever so much for your post - very much appreciated.


jazz

[jazz]

I'm glad it's not just me that finds this difficult. So is it just
water changes if I overfeed? My son said they would pop if they ate
too much - he's only 5(!) and I said that I didn't think they would but
it worried me slightly.

Thank-you JAZZ

[Koi-Lo]

"jazz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm glad it's not just me that finds this difficult. So is it just
> water changes if I overfeed? My son said they would pop if they ate
> too much - he's only 5(!) and I said that I didn't think they would but
> it worried me slightly.
=======================
I feed them until they all have nicely rounded bellies. Not that they look
like balloons, but until they look a bit rounded. I feed twice a day,
sometimes 3 times - all they can consume per time. Nothing is wasted.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
jazz > wrote:
>I'm glad it's not just me that finds this difficult. So is it just
>water changes if I overfeed? My son said they would pop if they ate
>too much - he's only 5(!) and I said that I didn't think they would but
>it worried me slightly.

I think all dried food is worthless. Get a whiteworm clture, food is
then free and has a much lessor chance of fouling yout tank.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Koi-Lo > wrote:
>
>"jazz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> I'm glad it's not just me that finds this difficult. So is it just
>> water changes if I overfeed? My son said they would pop if they ate
>> too much - he's only 5(!) and I said that I didn't think they would but
>> it worried me slightly.
>=======================
>I feed them until they all have nicely rounded bellies. Not that they look
>like balloons, but until they look a bit rounded. I feed twice a day,
>sometimes 3 times - all they can consume per time. Nothing is wasted.

Yet oddly you have algae anf high nitrates. Hmmmm....

Uneaten food causes cloudy water. So does lots of fish wastes.



--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[David Zopf]

"jazz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> David Zopf wrote:
>
> I guess what I'm trying is 5 flakes
> of about 0.7cm square twice a day and every other day a small
> additional snack of either brine shrimp or bloodworm (just enough so
> that all traces are gone in < 5 min). Do you think that sounds OK?

I think thats excellent. You might want to add some veggie matter into your
treat rotation of shrimp and bloodworms...

http://www.sfbb.com/product_popup.asp?category=frozen-shrimp&prod=Emerald%

(Just like my 2 and 4 year old kids), they won't be as enthusiastic for it
as the meaty treats, but varying the diet of omnivores helps a lot with
keeping good health and color.

> I've done some water testing and it's at Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm,
> nitrate 20ppm (just above tap water here.) Oh BTW I have loads of
> trumpet snails and they seem to clean EVERYTHING.
>
And from whats mentioned below, you have what sounds like a well-planted
tank, too. The cleaner crew will make water tests less of an indicator of
feeding, as you have some good scavengers in the snails and plants.

> It was Panda Cory's that I originally asked for (I love their 2 little
> black blobs) but the shop chaps said that the barbs would nip the
> pandas because they had a black dorsal fin and I would be better off
> with these. I felt sad at the time because I had been hoping for the
> pandas for ages but now I've seen how lively and interesting these
> little guys are I would probably go for these next time. They even
> swim in and out of my plants cleaning them! One of them plays in the
> bubbles sometimes, swimming in near the bottom and then shooting up to
> the top. But most of the time they both flit around eating a bit of
> something here and a bit there.
>
They sound great, and i love the size for smaller tanks. The fact that
they're doing some cleanup is great, too. I'm one of those guys who has a
poor track record with otocinclus... this breed looks like a reasonable
alternative for small bottom dwellers. Maybe they're not as good at algae
control, but if they're more robust witha dwider dietary habit, I think I
might try them out. I think like most, my otos were voracious algae eaters,
but had trouble finding adequate food once they've got the tank "tidied up"
a bit...

>> Assuming your cats will remain under 2 inches, you will still be looking
>> at
>> a total of 10 inches of adult fish, or more. Note, the "inches of fish"
>> is
>> just a general guide, and a poor one at that. Taking the fish's mass
>> ("girthy" fish count for more... an inch of Pearl Gourami doesn't equal
>> an
>> inch of neon tetra) and dietary habits into account (carnivores and messy
>> eaters should have more water than others), as well as its behavior, like
>> the swimming preference you mentioned, is a much better indicator. I
>> think
>> your fish will eventually outgrow your current tank.
>>
Funny, I write this poor summary above, and come home that same day to a
TFH in my mailbox, with an vastly better summary letter from the editor on
fish loads in aquariums. Its worth a read.

>> Ahh, the slippery slope of fishkeeping...

> I've already been looking for another tank. I've really been bitten by
> this fish keeping bug - it's so additictive! I though that 20 gallons
> would be good, then I could transfer all these fish into it, add some
> bright orange platies and then perhaps use the old little tank for a
> betta and some corys.

Or, keep it as a quarantine tank.

> What I don't understand is why I am so addicted to all this?
>
That's the real question, isn't it? There is _so much_ that goes into
aquarium-keeping; chemistry, fish behavior, visual impact, animal
husbandry/health, the 'foreign-ness' of the aquatic world, the gratification
when all is going well, learning about what's important in a closed
biological system, the "puzzle-solving" aspect of figuring out problems with
a setup... pick your reason(s), or add a dozen more.

>> About the "four minimum" rule, every group is different, but less
>> aggresive barbs like your five-bands can get by in a smaller group.
> That's a relief. On their second day they seems slightly aggresive
> with each other and one kept hiding in the weed from the other 2 but
> they seem to have sorted out who's boss now and shoal quite happliy
> with no more chasing or nipping.

Yeah, that just sounds like normal "New Neighborhood" barb jitters... You
might see this behavior crop up again if you move, add, or subtract tank
decorations or plants, move them to a new setup, and/or add other fish.
Nipping may re-start when a non-barb species is introduced, if the new
occupant normally inhabits the same mid-tank stratum as the barbs, and/or if
it has a body or coloration similiar to the barbs. This re-hash of the
hierarchy is just about guaranteed if you add more 5-band barbs in the
future, but it should pass just about as quickly. I woudn't add any tiger
or green barbs to a tank with your 5-bands. Not only do they grow a fair
bit larger, they'll try to include your 5-bands in their own hierarchy
'battles', and their higher level of aggression in this behavior will likely
be an undue stress on your chosen breed.

Good Luck!

DaveZ
Atom Weaver

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Koi-Lo > wrote:
>>
>>"jazz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>>> I'm glad it's not just me that finds this difficult. So is it just
>>> water changes if I overfeed? My son said they would pop if they ate
>>> too much - he's only 5(!) and I said that I didn't think they would but
>>> it worried me slightly.
>>=======================
>>I feed them until they all have nicely rounded bellies. Not that they
>>look
>>like balloons, but until they look a bit rounded. I feed twice a day,
>>sometimes 3 times - all they can consume per time. Nothing is wasted.
>
> Yet oddly you have algae anf high nitrates. Hmmmm....
>
> Uneaten food causes cloudy water. So does lots of fish wastes.
=========================
What high Nitrates? We *don't know* what the Nitrates in my tanks really
are because the Quick-Sticks are worthless. I get 20ppm from the tap and
the water co gets .34ppm (that's POINT .34ppm) when it leaves the water
plant a few miles away.

There is no uneaten food. I know how much they'll eat at a feeding. As for
feces.... well what's the alternative?
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

>What high Nitrates? We *don't know* what the Nitrates in my tanks really
>are because the Quick-Sticks are worthless. I get 20ppm from the tap and
>the water co gets .34ppm (that's POINT .34ppm) when it leaves the water
>plant a few miles away.

If you had pure water you wouldn't ave algae. You have ammonia, nitrites and
nitrates.

>There is no uneaten food. I know how much they'll eat at a feeding. As for
>feces.... well what's the alternative?

Feed way less. Do you really think fish in the wild have full belles 3x a day?

Most wild caught fish look rather emaciated.

Think of aliens keeping humans as pets. "Well, they were kinda thin when
I got them so I fed them till they were visibly distended several times
a day. Can anybody tell me why it's hard to keep their cage clean?"

The danger of overfeeding is not just uneaten food. Plus what's i the
food? Soy? Do you really thin fish eat soy four in the while or have
evolved to be able to digest it?

I feed whitewormd exclusively, and very sparingly. Ansk anybody and they'll
tell you this makes fish fat. Oddly though, I've been doing this for 7 years
not and my fish look more like the slender ones in wild caught photos. I believe
white worms in the presence of soy flour makes fish fat.

If it were me I'd feed them once a day every other day. It only sounds cruel
until you realise the fish are more active and the tank is cleaner. And the
algae problem diminishes.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[jazz]

Richard Sexton wrote:
> I think all dried food is worthless. Get a whiteworm clture, food is
> then free and has a much lessor chance of fouling yout tank.
>

I was warned off live food becuase it can introduce disease to the tank
and then I read that frozen food can still carry parasites, so I went
for freeze dried in the end. Would my own whiteworm culture be free of
parasites and diseases? If so I'm going to look into getting some.

Thank-you JAZZ

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
jazz > wrote:
>
>Richard Sexton wrote:
> > I think all dried food is worthless. Get a whiteworm clture, food is
>> then free and has a much lessor chance of fouling yout tank.
>>
>
>I was warned off live food becuase it can introduce disease to the tank
>and then I read that frozen food can still carry parasites, so I went
>for freeze dried in the end. Would my own whiteworm culture be free of
>parasites and diseases? If so I'm going to look into getting some.

Uh, soebody lied to you. Now, if you collect food from the wild and theree
are fish where you are colletinf then yes, there's a risk. That's why
we talk about "clean" ponds - no fish, no oil slicks etc.

But, you have to understand that pathogens are extremely host specific. You
really can't (modulo some rare and extreme fringe coditions) infect a fish
with something not already living on fish.

And there's absolutely noting in a daphnia, moina or worm culture than can infect
a fish. True the culture may become infected - grindal worms are notorious for picking
up gnat infestations, but they are just tiny harmless flies and cannot infect fish.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> >What high Nitrates? We *don't know* what the Nitrates in my tanks really
>>are because the Quick-Sticks are worthless. I get 20ppm from the tap and
>>the water co gets .34ppm (that's POINT .34ppm) when it leaves the water
>>plant a few miles away.
>
> If you had pure water you wouldn't ave algae. You have ammonia, nitrites
> and
> nitrates.

Ammonia and Nitrites read zero (wet test, not strips).

>>There is no uneaten food. I know how much they'll eat at a feeding. As
>>for
>>feces.... well what's the alternative?
>
> Feed way less. Do you really think fish in the wild have full belles 3x a
> day?

Actually, I don't know. The sunfish, bass and catfish they catch down at
the Lake here are well fleshed. In summer they're actually quite heavy.

> Most wild caught fish look rather emaciated.

Ok, I never saw any that looked emaciated in the lakes or rivers here in TN
(USA).

> Think of aliens keeping humans as pets. "Well, they were kinda thin when
> I got them so I fed them till they were visibly distended several times
> a day. Can anybody tell me why it's hard to keep their cage clean?"
>
> The danger of overfeeding is not just uneaten food. Plus what's i the
> food? Soy? Do you really thin fish eat soy four in the while or have
> evolved to be able to digest it?

There are all kinds of things in the foods I use. Fish meal is listed
first. The shrimp snack they sometimes get is 100% dried shrimp.

> I feed whitewormd exclusively, and very sparingly. Ansk anybody and
> they'll
> tell you this makes fish fat. Oddly though, I've been doing this for 7
> years
> not and my fish look more like the slender ones in wild caught photos. I
> believe
> white worms in the presence of soy flour makes fish fat.

I have no access to white worms and can't afford to feed this many fish live
foods, even if I could find a place that sells them locally. They used to
carry clean tubafex worms and brine shrimp but no more. They all went over
to frozen foods.

> If it were me I'd feed them once a day every other day. It only sounds
> cruel
> until you realise the fish are more active and the tank is cleaner. And
> the
> algae problem diminishes.

I'll cut back to once a day and see if that helps. If not then I'll start
to skip days. The problem with keeping goldfish hungry is they start to
destroy the plants. I've had that problem in the past as well (when I was
working full-time and feeding only once a day).

The Flourish Excel arrived today and I added it about an hour ago. Both of
the 55g tanks had massive water changes yesterday and the day before. The
new AC filter also arrived. The black-crud tank will have 2 ACs now. That
may help as well.

I appreciate all the info.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

>Ammonia and Nitrites read zero (wet test, not strips).

Unless it was a La Motte kit I woldn't pay much attention to them.

>Actually, I don't know. The sunfish, bass and catfish they catch down at
>the Lake here are well fleshed. In summer they're actually quite heavy.

With eggs. Now, lok at fish caught in the Orinoco year round.

>There are all kinds of things in the foods I use. Fish meal is listed
>first. The shrimp snack they sometimes get is 100% dried shrimp.

The problem with fish meal is it's not what fish eat. They eat worms
and crustaceans. Pure fish flesh is not what they eat, they eat whole fish;
ones, scales, stuff in the gut.

>I have no access to white worms and can't afford to feed this many fish live
>foods, even if I could find a place that sells them locally. They used to
>carry clean tubafex worms and brine shrimp but no more. They all went over
>to frozen foods.

You can dulture worms and daphnica very very easily. And you can't beat
the price.

>I'll cut back to once a day and see if that helps. If not then I'll start
>to skip days. The problem with keeping goldfish hungry is they start to
>destroy the plants.

Let them! With proper fertilization and light you should be able to outgrow
their intake. if not add more plants. I have a few tanks I don't bother
feeding at all because the fish eat the plants or eatbugs that grow in the
tanks.

> The Flourish Excel arrived today and I added it about an hour ago. Both of
>the 55g tanks had massive water changes yesterday and the day before. The
>new AC filter also arrived. The black-crud tank will have 2 ACs now. That
>may help as well.

How massive?

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> >Ammonia and Nitrites read zero (wet test, not strips).
>
> Unless it was a La Motte kit I woldn't pay much attention to them.
>
>>Actually, I don't know. The sunfish, bass and catfish they catch down at
>>the Lake here are well fleshed. In summer they're actually quite heavy.
>
> With eggs. Now, lok at fish caught in the Orinoco year round.
>
>>There are all kinds of things in the foods I use. Fish meal is listed
>>first. The shrimp snack they sometimes get is 100% dried shrimp.
>
> The problem with fish meal is it's not what fish eat. They eat worms
> and crustaceans. Pure fish flesh is not what they eat, they eat whole
> fish;
> ones, scales, stuff in the gut.
>
>>I have no access to white worms and can't afford to feed this many fish
>>live
>>foods, even if I could find a place that sells them locally. They used to
>>carry clean tubafex worms and brine shrimp but no more. They all went
>>over
>>to frozen foods.
>
> You can dulture worms and daphnica very very easily. And you can't beat
> the price.

I have no room to culture what I would need for this many fancy goldfish and
the platys. I tried daphnia. I would need a small lake to raise enough to
use for fish food and they only multiplied in the spring - a period of about
a month, maybe 6 weeks. Larger GF don't even see daphnia. They ignore
them. Culture what kind of worms? I have a huge compost pile for the
garden and still can't harvest enough for more than an occasional snack for
them and that's only in the spring and fall.

>>I'll cut back to once a day and see if that helps. If not then I'll start
>>to skip days. The problem with keeping goldfish hungry is they start to
>>destroy the plants.

> Let them! With proper fertilization and light you should be able to
> outgrow
> their intake. if not add more plants.

What kind of plants would outgrow constant daily destruction? Plants here
are not cheap! And if they eat what they tear up I'm back with the feces
problem. They get zucchini and oranges a few times a week and devour them.
So far they haven't done much harm to the plants.

I have a few tanks I don't bother
> feeding at all because the fish eat the plants or eatbugs that grow in the
> tanks.

My aquariums are all indoors. There are no insects or bugs to multiply in
these indoor tanks. Outdoors is different. I can't afford to keep
replacing aquarium plants as they destroy them. Even a small bunch of
anacharis here is $2.99+. I can't grow my own during the winter because it
gets too cold here.

>> The Flourish Excel arrived today and I added it about an hour ago. Both
>> of
>>the 55g tanks had massive water changes yesterday and the day before. The
>>new AC filter also arrived. The black-crud tank will have 2 ACs now.
>>That
>>may help as well.
>
> How massive?

All I left in the bottom was enough water to cover their backs. About a 92
to 94% water change. I also vacuumed every inch of the gravel *again* and
ran the DE filter for a few hours.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
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[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Koi-Lo > wrote:
>I have no room to culture what I would need for this many fancy goldfish and
>the platys. I tried daphnia. I would need a small lake to raise enough to
>use for fish food and they only multiplied in the spring - a period of about
>a month, maybe 6 weeks. Larger GF don't even see daphnia. They ignore
>them. Culture what kind of worms? I have a huge compost pile for the
>garden and still can't harvest enough for more than an occasional snack for
>them and that's only in the spring and fall.

White worms, earth worms, the smaller "red worms" not the giant nightcrawlers.

They will take a while to grow up to the mass you need but they will do it.

I think the lst time I bought fishfood was 1988. Anywhere that
sells bait has redworms.

>What kind of plants would outgrow constant daily destruction?

Duckweed! Hornwort, water sprite. It's probbaly cheaper to set up a garage sale
20 wiht plants and stong light than to buy food.

>All I left in the bottom was enough water to cover their backs. About a 92
>to 94% water change. I also vacuumed every inch of the gravel *again* and
>ran the DE filter for a few hours.

That's a good start, now hook the diatom filter back up and stir up the
gravel. Recharge the filter when it gets cloged, repeat. It may take
days of doing this but eventually it'll come clean.

You'll be amazed at how much crud is still down there. BTDT.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net