140 Gallon Sal****er Aquarium Weight

[Kris]

Greetings All...

I wanted to by my husband a new 140 Gallon SW aquarium, however I have
some concerns about the weight of this thing. I have read through some
past post here and have some similarities of what they had as well. I
live in a pretty new condominium (built 1989) and wanted to know if
this being such a newer home, would the weight of this aquarium hold.
It is impossible for me to find joists running under (I have carpet)
so pretty much its a hit or miss scenario. I did see on one post to
keep it up against a wall, preferably a wall exactly the same as
downstairs. Well, the good new is (I guess) is that the unit below has
the same exact floorplan as we do, nothing more, nothing less. I
wanted to have it set up against the wall in the dining area. Which is
the same wall as downstairs. The main concern is now, I dont know if I
will be on the joists to distribute the weight or if it will be
parallel to the joists. If it happens to be parallel, should there be
a concern? HOA would not give me the floorplans nor tell me how the
joists run. Outside wall? Inside wall? Can someone kindly clear that
up for me as well. I am not a whiz when it comes to construction so I
applogize. Any feedback, recommendations on this matter will be
greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your time.

Anna

[Matt Awbrey]

It's not really the weight as it is the amount of area or square feet that
the weight is going to be distributed upon. An average size for that tank is
usually 6 feet x 2 feet x 2 feet and probably weighs around 1500 lbs.
including the stand and water. As long as the stand distributes the weight
evenly onto the floor across the entire length and width of the tank it is
doubtful you'll have anything to worry about. However, should the stand
distribute the weight of the tank and itself on say just four 4 inches by 4
inches square legs, you might run into problems. The building regardless
should hold the weight easily. However, the flooring might not if the stand
doesn't place the weight to the floor via the entire length of the tank.
Just to be sure your not going to be in violation of the home owners
association rules you should contact them first. If they give the go ahead
then I would also contact the buildings maintenance personel or contractor
and run past them what you intend to do. Also, depending upon where you live
you might also have to get a specific type of insurance that covers water
filled furniture and such and protects you incase you are liable for water
damage to property other then what is yours and your husbands or liability
for personal injury that might occur.
"Kris" > wrote in message
om...
> Greetings All...
>
> I wanted to by my husband a new 140 Gallon SW aquarium, however I have
> some concerns about the weight of this thing. I have read through some
> past post here and have some similarities of what they had as well. I
> live in a pretty new condominium (built 1989) and wanted to know if
> this being such a newer home, would the weight of this aquarium hold.
> It is impossible for me to find joists running under (I have carpet)
> so pretty much its a hit or miss scenario. I did see on one post to
> keep it up against a wall, preferably a wall exactly the same as
> downstairs. Well, the good new is (I guess) is that the unit below has
> the same exact floorplan as we do, nothing more, nothing less. I
> wanted to have it set up against the wall in the dining area. Which is
> the same wall as downstairs. The main concern is now, I dont know if I
> will be on the joists to distribute the weight or if it will be
> parallel to the joists. If it happens to be parallel, should there be
> a concern? HOA would not give me the floorplans nor tell me how the
> joists run. Outside wall? Inside wall? Can someone kindly clear that
> up for me as well. I am not a whiz when it comes to construction so I
> applogize. Any feedback, recommendations on this matter will be
> greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your time.
>
> Anna

[tech27]

A 120 gal tank would be about 1400lbs.
You can look up the weight of water per gallon and do the math. Salinity
makes a difference, so you can look that up too if you want to be precise.


"Matt Awbrey" > wrote in message
news:hUsec.9313$HN3.54@fed1read07...
> It's not really the weight as it is the amount of area or square feet that
> the weight is going to be distributed upon. An average size for that tank
is
> usually 6 feet x 2 feet x 2 feet and probably weighs around 1500 lbs.
> including the stand and water. As long as the stand distributes the weight
> evenly onto the floor across the entire length and width of the tank it is
> doubtful you'll have anything to worry about. However, should the stand
> distribute the weight of the tank and itself on say just four 4 inches by
4
> inches square legs, you might run into problems. The building regardless
> should hold the weight easily. However, the flooring might not if the
stand
> doesn't place the weight to the floor via the entire length of the tank.
> Just to be sure your not going to be in violation of the home owners
> association rules you should contact them first. If they give the go ahead
> then I would also contact the buildings maintenance personel or contractor
> and run past them what you intend to do. Also, depending upon where you
live
> you might also have to get a specific type of insurance that covers water
> filled furniture and such and protects you incase you are liable for water
> damage to property other then what is yours and your husbands or
liability
> for personal injury that might occur.
> "Kris" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Greetings All...
> >
> > I wanted to by my husband a new 140 Gallon SW aquarium, however I have
> > some concerns about the weight of this thing. I have read through some
> > past post here and have some similarities of what they had as well. I
> > live in a pretty new condominium (built 1989) and wanted to know if
> > this being such a newer home, would the weight of this aquarium hold.
> > It is impossible for me to find joists running under (I have carpet)
> > so pretty much its a hit or miss scenario. I did see on one post to
> > keep it up against a wall, preferably a wall exactly the same as
> > downstairs. Well, the good new is (I guess) is that the unit below has
> > the same exact floorplan as we do, nothing more, nothing less. I
> > wanted to have it set up against the wall in the dining area. Which is
> > the same wall as downstairs. The main concern is now, I dont know if I
> > will be on the joists to distribute the weight or if it will be
> > parallel to the joists. If it happens to be parallel, should there be
> > a concern? HOA would not give me the floorplans nor tell me how the
> > joists run. Outside wall? Inside wall? Can someone kindly clear that
> > up for me as well. I am not a whiz when it comes to construction so I
> > applogize. Any feedback, recommendations on this matter will be
> > greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your time.
> >
> > Anna
>
>

[Philip Lewis]

"Matt Awbrey" > writes:
>doubtful you'll have anything to worry about. However, should the stand
>distribute the weight of the tank and itself on say just four 4 inches by 4
>inches square legs, you might run into problems. The building regardless
If you get a "legged" stand like this, consider putting the whole
think on a piece of plywood to help distribute the weight.

--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Idee, was das bedeutet... Oder habe ich?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

[Kris]

"tech27" > wrote in message >...
> A 120 gal tank would be about 1400lbs.
> You can look up the weight of water per gallon and do the math. Salinity
> makes a difference, so you can look that up too if you want to be precise.
>
>
> "Matt Awbrey" > wrote in message
> news:hUsec.9313$HN3.54@fed1read07...
> > It's not really the weight as it is the amount of area or square feet that
> > the weight is going to be distributed upon. An average size for that tank
> is
> > usually 6 feet x 2 feet x 2 feet and probably weighs around 1500 lbs.
> > including the stand and water. As long as the stand distributes the weight
> > evenly onto the floor across the entire length and width of the tank it is
> > doubtful you'll have anything to worry about. However, should the stand
> > distribute the weight of the tank and itself on say just four 4 inches by
> 4
> > inches square legs, you might run into problems. The building regardless
> > should hold the weight easily. However, the flooring might not if the
> stand
> > doesn't place the weight to the floor via the entire length of the tank.
> > Just to be sure your not going to be in violation of the home owners
> > association rules you should contact them first. If they give the go ahead
> > then I would also contact the buildings maintenance personel or contractor
> > and run past them what you intend to do. Also, depending upon where you
> live
> > you might also have to get a specific type of insurance that covers water
> > filled furniture and such and protects you incase you are liable for water
> > damage to property other then what is yours and your husbands or
> liability
> > for personal injury that might occur.
> > "Kris" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Greetings All...
> > >
> > > I wanted to by my husband a new 140 Gallon SW aquarium, however I have
> > > some concerns about the weight of this thing. I have read through some
> > > past post here and have some similarities of what they had as well. I
> > > live in a pretty new condominium (built 1989) and wanted to know if
> > > this being such a newer home, would the weight of this aquarium hold.
> > > It is impossible for me to find joists running under (I have carpet)
> > > so pretty much its a hit or miss scenario. I did see on one post to
> > > keep it up against a wall, preferably a wall exactly the same as
> > > downstairs. Well, the good new is (I guess) is that the unit below has
> > > the same exact floorplan as we do, nothing more, nothing less. I
> > > wanted to have it set up against the wall in the dining area. Which is
> > > the same wall as downstairs. The main concern is now, I dont know if I
> > > will be on the joists to distribute the weight or if it will be
> > > parallel to the joists. If it happens to be parallel, should there be
> > > a concern? HOA would not give me the floorplans nor tell me how the
> > > joists run. Outside wall? Inside wall? Can someone kindly clear that
> > > up for me as well. I am not a whiz when it comes to construction so I
> > > applogize. Any feedback, recommendations on this matter will be
> > > greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your time.
> > >
> > > Anna
> >
> >


Thank you so much for the responses. The light is coming at the end of
the tunnel. As far as the stand, it will distribute the weight of the
entire tank evenly. It will not be on four legs. Thanks again...

Anna

[CapFusion]

If you want to know the joist or the beam, you can find out by a meter. The
same meter you can find in homedepot or similar outlet. This meter was meant
to be use to find wood for those poeple have drywall and do not want to hit
any nail between the bean / wood that does not support the weight. I do not
remember actually name so I call it meter at this moment. They run about 10
to 20USD for the basic.

Back to the topic....
Normally 140G will be ok any any house. 140G should be big enough to spread
or distribute the weight.

CapFusion,...


"Kris" > wrote in message
om...
> Greetings All...
>
> I wanted to by my husband a new 140 Gallon SW aquarium, however I have
> some concerns about the weight of this thing. I have read through some
> past post here and have some similarities of what they had as well. I
> live in a pretty new condominium (built 1989) and wanted to know if
> this being such a newer home, would the weight of this aquarium hold.
> It is impossible for me to find joists running under (I have carpet)
> so pretty much its a hit or miss scenario. I did see on one post to
> keep it up against a wall, preferably a wall exactly the same as
> downstairs. Well, the good new is (I guess) is that the unit below has
> the same exact floorplan as we do, nothing more, nothing less. I
> wanted to have it set up against the wall in the dining area. Which is
> the same wall as downstairs. The main concern is now, I dont know if I
> will be on the joists to distribute the weight or if it will be
> parallel to the joists. If it happens to be parallel, should there be
> a concern? HOA would not give me the floorplans nor tell me how the
> joists run. Outside wall? Inside wall? Can someone kindly clear that
> up for me as well. I am not a whiz when it comes to construction so I
> applogize. Any feedback, recommendations on this matter will be
> greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your time.
>
> Anna

[GamePlayer No. 1058]

I believe your thinking of a "stud meter", I've got one sitting on my
kitchen counter from when I was pounding nails into the wall to find the
studs to hang some pictures the other day.

"CapFusion" <CapFusion...@hotmail..,com> wrote in message
...
> If you want to know the joist or the beam, you can find out by a meter.
The
> same meter you can find in homedepot or similar outlet. This meter was
meant
> to be use to find wood for those poeple have drywall and do not want to
hit
> any nail between the bean / wood that does not support the weight. I do
not
> remember actually name so I call it meter at this moment. They run about
10
> to 20USD for the basic.
>
> Back to the topic....
> Normally 140G will be ok any any house. 140G should be big enough to
spread
> or distribute the weight.
>
> CapFusion,...
>
>
> "Kris" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Greetings All...
> >
> > I wanted to by my husband a new 140 Gallon SW aquarium, however I have
> > some concerns about the weight of this thing. I have read through some
> > past post here and have some similarities of what they had as well. I
> > live in a pretty new condominium (built 1989) and wanted to know if
> > this being such a newer home, would the weight of this aquarium hold.
> > It is impossible for me to find joists running under (I have carpet)
> > so pretty much its a hit or miss scenario. I did see on one post to
> > keep it up against a wall, preferably a wall exactly the same as
> > downstairs. Well, the good new is (I guess) is that the unit below has
> > the same exact floorplan as we do, nothing more, nothing less. I
> > wanted to have it set up against the wall in the dining area. Which is
> > the same wall as downstairs. The main concern is now, I dont know if I
> > will be on the joists to distribute the weight or if it will be
> > parallel to the joists. If it happens to be parallel, should there be
> > a concern? HOA would not give me the floorplans nor tell me how the
> > joists run. Outside wall? Inside wall? Can someone kindly clear that
> > up for me as well. I am not a whiz when it comes to construction so I
> > applogize. Any feedback, recommendations on this matter will be
> > greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your time.
> >
> > Anna
>
>

[CapFusion]

"GamePlayer No. 1058" > wrote in message
...
> I believe your thinking of a "stud meter", I've got one sitting on my
> kitchen counter from when I was pounding nails into the wall to find the
> studs to hang some pictures the other day.
>

Yeah,... That is it. It help me alot to finding those stud / wood and avoid
alot of patching up those drywall.

If anyone have drywall, definitely need stud-meter if have nail and hammer.

CapFusion,...

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Anna

A standard 2x12 joist on 16 inch centers will easily support even a
300 gallon aquarium.
But it depends more on the stand itself and it's footprint.

Some stands only have 4 legs, if these legs are bent steel, all of the
weight is supported by less than 4 square inches floor surface.
In other words, you CAN expect it to break through the 3/4 inch of
flooring.
But if the stand has a 3-1/2 inch wide perimeter footprint, you will
have well over 500 square inches of resting surface to distribute the
weight.

Let's assume your aquarium weights under 2000 lbs when filled.
But at 2000 lbs of weight, resting on 500 square inches of supporting
surface, you only have 4 lbs per square inch sitting on the floor.
Nothing to be concerned about really.
But if you had 2000 lbs of weight resting on only 4 square inches of
supporting surface, you would have 500 lbs per square inch sitting on
the floor. A 3/4 inch floor 8 inches from a support would sag and
eventually collapse if it doesn't collapse right away.

Take a 250 lb person sitting in a dining room chair. It has roughly 4
square inches of support under the chair. This is placing over 60 lbs
per square inch on the flooring. If he leans back, having only 2 feet
of the chair on the floor, actually there would be less than 1/4
square inch supporting him, but for this example I will give the
benefit of the doubt and stick with 2 square inches of support. Using
2 square inches, he is exerting over 120 lbs per square inch onto the
floor.
Your icebox is normally supported by only 4 square inches and often
weighs in the neighborhood of 3 to 5 hundred pounds. If it weighed
400 lbs, you would have 100 lbs per square inch on the flooring.

So, a 140 gallon aquarium, at 2000 lbs., on a proper stand with a wide
footprint of only 3-1/2 inches perimeter, by comparison, at it's 4 lbs
per square inch is miniscule compared to a person sitting in a 4
legged chair.

But you still do have to be concerned about the total weight on the
whole floor itself and the location of the aquarium, if you don't want
it to shake rattle and roll so to speak.

Homes are built with the following codes:
Attic floors must support 20 lbs per sq ft. [2x6s on 16 inch centers
at span]
Dwelling Units (meaning all rooms in the home other than bedrooms)
must support 40 lbs per sq ft. [2x12s on 16 inch centers at span]
Sleeping Rooms must support 30 lbs per sq ft. (although most homes
are built at 40 lbs per sq ft or greater throughout) [2x10s on 16 inch
centers at span]
In comparison, commercial offices, such as office buildings are only
50 lbs per sq ft. [2x12s on 16 inch centers at 3/4 span]

FWIW: A glass aquarium sitting directly on the floor has a greater
pound per square inch weight on the flooring than one sitting on a
properly constructed stand with a 3-1/2 inch perimeter footprint.
The framing of an all glass aquarium is often molded to product only a
1/2 inch perimeter footprint. Thus with a perimeter measurement of
only 156 inches at 1/2 inch wide, we only have 78 sq in of surface
touching the floor. 2000 lbs divided by 78 makes the weight on the
flooring over 25 lbs per square inch.
As we see from above, on the proper stand, the weight would only be 4
lbs per square inch on the same flooring for the same aquarium.

Hope this helps!

TTUL
Gary

[Toni]

"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message >
> Hope this helps!
>


I don't know about anyone else, but I'm archiving this post!

Thanks Gary!


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/reef.htm

[CapFusion]

Wow, I had to read it twice or more to get it.
(humm.... maybe a slow reader)

CapFusion,...


"Toni" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message
>
> > Hope this helps!
> >
>
>
> I don't know about anyone else, but I'm archiving this post!
>
> Thanks Gary!
>
>
> --
> Toni
> http://www.cearbhaill.com/reef.htm
>
>

[Kris]

"Toni" > wrote in message et>...
> "Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message >
> > Hope this helps!
> >
>
>
> I don't know about anyone else, but I'm archiving this post!
>
> Thanks Gary!


Gary...

Thanks so much for the informative post. It helped me a lot as well as
the other posts on here. Thanks everybody!! I just had another
question for Gary or anyone else that might want to answer. As far as
the joist under the flooring, does it still matter if its
perpendicular or parallel to the aquarium. Or is this just something
not to worry about, as long as I have a big footprint from the stand.
Thanks again.

Anna

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Anna (Kris?)

At roughly 2000 lbs distributed at 4lbs per square foot, it really is
not that relevant. But TWO different forces must be considered also.

If the floor joists are perpendicular to the aquarium, and the
aquarium is lets say 6 feet long, you are spanning 4-1/2 joists, more
than likely spanning between 5 joists. Plus if the aquarium is
against an outside wall, you have the greatest possible amount of
support under the aquarium. If it is an interior wall, and this wall
is in the center of the span, you have much less support and a greater
possibility of sag.
In a normal house, with the joists perpendicular to the aquarium, you
will get a noticable aquarium shake as someone walks across the floor
as the floor does give under ones weight and naturally follows the
span of the joists in doing so.

Having the joists parallel to the length of the aquarium would mean
that only 2 joists are bearing the weight. However, if you are
against an outside wall, one of these joist, the one resting on the
foundation normally has the next joist very close to it and then the
next 16 inches away from that. You would get little to no aquarium
shake as one walks down the middle of the room, because the spring of
the floor along the span is in a direction parallel to the aquarium.
Again, if the aquarium is in the center of the span, such as on an
unsupported inside wall, you will have a greater sag effect on only
two joists, that you would across 4-1/2 joists.
This sag is minimal and would probably not be noticed very readily,
but over a long period of time, the sag could increase and become
permanent, like the area of the kitchen where the fridge has been
setting for 20 years.

Don't quote me on the following, I'm pulling it from the air and old
rusty memory banks.
But if I recall correctly, a single 2x12, 20 feet long, standing on
edge, supported at each end only, will support 900 lbs at dead center.
At 1/4 the distance from either end, it will support 1185 lbs.
At flush with the supported edge it is over 6000 lbs. to reach shear
of a 20 foot span.

When you combine 2x12s on 16 inch centers and with a 3/4 to 1 inch
attached flooring, this helps to distribute weight more evenly over
many joists.

Consider this, old wooden covered bridges, designed to carry auto's
and light trucks, have a floor constructed of rough sawn 2x6s on 6
inch centers with a span of roughly 4 feet between framing supports.
They don't sag one iota! The flooring that is.

I have had a 300 gallon aquarium, roughly 4000 lbs, supported by only
three 2x12 joists covered with 1-1/8 inch flooring (thats 3/8 subfloor
& 3/4 hardwood T&G), the stand base was only 3-1/2 inch wide around
the perimeter with a single 1-1/2 inch wide center strut on the floor.
This was against an interior wall in the living room, roughly centered
on a 20 foot span parallel to the aquarium.
I lived in this house 20 years and the floor only sagged 3/8 of an
inch in all of those years. When I moved, the sag was apparently not
permanent as it came right back up to level when we emptied and
removed the aquarium.

My friend Jim's house with a similar aquarium in a similar location
sagged about 1/4 inch within the first 3 years, then never sagged any
further after that. Both of our aquariums remained level. He could
slide a piece of notebook paper under the center of his stand after
noticing the sag. Mine always stayed tight to the floor. My stand
was also much lighter than his and probably had more give to it.

TTUL
Gary

[Kris]

(Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) wrote in message >...
> Hi Anna (Kris?)
>
> At roughly 2000 lbs distributed at 4lbs per square foot, it really is
> not that relevant. But TWO different forces must be considered also.
>
> If the floor joists are perpendicular to the aquarium, and the
> aquarium is lets say 6 feet long, you are spanning 4-1/2 joists, more
> than likely spanning between 5 joists. Plus if the aquarium is
> against an outside wall, you have the greatest possible amount of
> support under the aquarium. If it is an interior wall, and this wall
> is in the center of the span, you have much less support and a greater
> possibility of sag.
> In a normal house, with the joists perpendicular to the aquarium, you
> will get a noticable aquarium shake as someone walks across the floor
> as the floor does give under ones weight and naturally follows the
> span of the joists in doing so.
>
> Having the joists parallel to the length of the aquarium would mean
> that only 2 joists are bearing the weight. However, if you are
> against an outside wall, one of these joist, the one resting on the
> foundation normally has the next joist very close to it and then the
> next 16 inches away from that. You would get little to no aquarium
> shake as one walks down the middle of the room, because the spring of
> the floor along the span is in a direction parallel to the aquarium.
> Again, if the aquarium is in the center of the span, such as on an
> unsupported inside wall, you will have a greater sag effect on only
> two joists, that you would across 4-1/2 joists.
> This sag is minimal and would probably not be noticed very readily,
> but over a long period of time, the sag could increase and become
> permanent, like the area of the kitchen where the fridge has been
> setting for 20 years.
>
> Don't quote me on the following, I'm pulling it from the air and old
> rusty memory banks.
> But if I recall correctly, a single 2x12, 20 feet long, standing on
> edge, supported at each end only, will support 900 lbs at dead center.
> At 1/4 the distance from either end, it will support 1185 lbs.
> At flush with the supported edge it is over 6000 lbs. to reach shear
> of a 20 foot span.
>
> When you combine 2x12s on 16 inch centers and with a 3/4 to 1 inch
> attached flooring, this helps to distribute weight more evenly over
> many joists.
>
> Consider this, old wooden covered bridges, designed to carry auto's
> and light trucks, have a floor constructed of rough sawn 2x6s on 6
> inch centers with a span of roughly 4 feet between framing supports.
> They don't sag one iota! The flooring that is.
>
> I have had a 300 gallon aquarium, roughly 4000 lbs, supported by only
> three 2x12 joists covered with 1-1/8 inch flooring (thats 3/8 subfloor
> & 3/4 hardwood T&G), the stand base was only 3-1/2 inch wide around
> the perimeter with a single 1-1/2 inch wide center strut on the floor.
> This was against an interior wall in the living room, roughly centered
> on a 20 foot span parallel to the aquarium.
> I lived in this house 20 years and the floor only sagged 3/8 of an
> inch in all of those years. When I moved, the sag was apparently not
> permanent as it came right back up to level when we emptied and
> removed the aquarium.
>
> My friend Jim's house with a similar aquarium in a similar location
> sagged about 1/4 inch within the first 3 years, then never sagged any
> further after that. Both of our aquariums remained level. He could
> slide a piece of notebook paper under the center of his stand after
> noticing the sag. Mine always stayed tight to the floor. My stand
> was also much lighter than his and probably had more give to it.
>
> TTUL
> Gary

Thanks for the post again Gary, I really appreciate it. BTW...Kris is
my husbands name :) I have one final question if you dont
mind...again. What is considered the interior wall and outside wall?
From the way everything looks I should be in safe hands. Thanks again
Gary!!

[Charles Spitzer]

"Kris" > wrote in message
om...
> (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) wrote in message
>...
> > Hi Anna (Kris?)
> >
> > At roughly 2000 lbs distributed at 4lbs per square foot, it really is
> > not that relevant. But TWO different forces must be considered also.
> >
> > If the floor joists are perpendicular to the aquarium, and the
> > aquarium is lets say 6 feet long, you are spanning 4-1/2 joists, more
> > than likely spanning between 5 joists. Plus if the aquarium is
> > against an outside wall, you have the greatest possible amount of
> > support under the aquarium. If it is an interior wall, and this wall
> > is in the center of the span, you have much less support and a greater
> > possibility of sag.
> > In a normal house, with the joists perpendicular to the aquarium, you
> > will get a noticable aquarium shake as someone walks across the floor
> > as the floor does give under ones weight and naturally follows the
> > span of the joists in doing so.
> >
> > Having the joists parallel to the length of the aquarium would mean
> > that only 2 joists are bearing the weight. However, if you are
> > against an outside wall, one of these joist, the one resting on the
> > foundation normally has the next joist very close to it and then the
> > next 16 inches away from that. You would get little to no aquarium
> > shake as one walks down the middle of the room, because the spring of
> > the floor along the span is in a direction parallel to the aquarium.
> > Again, if the aquarium is in the center of the span, such as on an
> > unsupported inside wall, you will have a greater sag effect on only
> > two joists, that you would across 4-1/2 joists.
> > This sag is minimal and would probably not be noticed very readily,
> > but over a long period of time, the sag could increase and become
> > permanent, like the area of the kitchen where the fridge has been
> > setting for 20 years.
> >
> > Don't quote me on the following, I'm pulling it from the air and old
> > rusty memory banks.
> > But if I recall correctly, a single 2x12, 20 feet long, standing on
> > edge, supported at each end only, will support 900 lbs at dead center.
> > At 1/4 the distance from either end, it will support 1185 lbs.
> > At flush with the supported edge it is over 6000 lbs. to reach shear
> > of a 20 foot span.
> >
> > When you combine 2x12s on 16 inch centers and with a 3/4 to 1 inch
> > attached flooring, this helps to distribute weight more evenly over
> > many joists.
> >
> > Consider this, old wooden covered bridges, designed to carry auto's
> > and light trucks, have a floor constructed of rough sawn 2x6s on 6
> > inch centers with a span of roughly 4 feet between framing supports.
> > They don't sag one iota! The flooring that is.
> >
> > I have had a 300 gallon aquarium, roughly 4000 lbs, supported by only
> > three 2x12 joists covered with 1-1/8 inch flooring (thats 3/8 subfloor
> > & 3/4 hardwood T&G), the stand base was only 3-1/2 inch wide around
> > the perimeter with a single 1-1/2 inch wide center strut on the floor.
> > This was against an interior wall in the living room, roughly centered
> > on a 20 foot span parallel to the aquarium.
> > I lived in this house 20 years and the floor only sagged 3/8 of an
> > inch in all of those years. When I moved, the sag was apparently not
> > permanent as it came right back up to level when we emptied and
> > removed the aquarium.
> >
> > My friend Jim's house with a similar aquarium in a similar location
> > sagged about 1/4 inch within the first 3 years, then never sagged any
> > further after that. Both of our aquariums remained level. He could
> > slide a piece of notebook paper under the center of his stand after
> > noticing the sag. Mine always stayed tight to the floor. My stand
> > was also much lighter than his and probably had more give to it.
> >
> > TTUL
> > Gary
>
> Thanks for the post again Gary, I really appreciate it. BTW...Kris is
> my husbands name :) I have one final question if you dont
> mind...again. What is considered the interior wall and outside wall?
> From the way everything looks I should be in safe hands. Thanks again
> Gary!!

an outside wall has a footer beneath it, or a wall that goes down the bottom
of your foundation. usually, only the walls on the perimeter of your house
have footers. an interior wall doesn't.

[david]

> an outside wall has a footer beneath it, or a wall that goes down the
bottom
> of your foundation. usually, only the walls on the perimeter of your house
> have footers. an interior wall doesn't.
>
not strictly accurate. but as you say walls between inside and outside are
usually
load bearing and sometimes a wall through the center of the house can be
too, at this point you may need to check with a builder. Im am lucky in that
I have solid floors add every where downstairs is load bearing.

David

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Anna

An exterior wall rests above the foundation and/or on the foundation
itself, depending of the type of construction.
An exterior wall has one side inside the house and one outside the
house.
In addition there are interior load bearing walls in some, but not all
homes. These walls are supported by either a foundation also, or most
by beams placed under them to support the weight they must carry.

An interior wall is actually called a partition wall, it is what
divides up the inside of the home into the various rooms in that home.

Exterior walls and load bearing walls (if required) are constructed
first, then the rafters for the roof set in place. This is the
superstructure of the home.

If your home is over 20 feet wide, in the basement or crawl space you
will usually find an iron I-Beam running down the middle of the
basement or crawl space lengthwise of the home. This is a very good
indication that the wall above it, that is supporting the roof, is a
load bearing wall. AND that your floor joists resting on this beam
are the end of a span. So an aquarium placed against a load bearing
wall has roughly the same load carrying capacity as if it was against
an exterior wall.

It is normal on frame homes for the floor joists to be resting right
on the foundation. Whereas on many block homes or masonry homes, the
floor joists are either A: slipped into slots provided for that
purpose or B: affixed to stringers that are affixed to the wall or C:
installed using hangers, or D: a combination of stringers and western
hangers. Regardless of how the are attached, the 'shear' force for a
2x12 remains fairly constant, provided the mounting method is up to
code and the mount itself does not give way.

FWIW: Many exterior walls are now built using 2x6 studs in order to
achieve greater insulation properties. An aquarium stand against an
outer wall, affixed also to these vertical studs will allow a load
(aquarium weight) that greatly exceeds the capability of the floor
itself, because the center of gravity of the stand is shifted
rearward, this also requires the stand be designed to shift the weight
in this manner. This does apply some of the weight as torque on the
wall with a force pulling the vertical wall inward.

An example of what I mean is a workbench or table affixed to a wall
and the legs underneath on the front of the workbench rather than
going straight down to the floor, slope back to the wall, so they are
out of the way. All of the weight is supported by the foundation and
not the floor at all in this case. BUT there is a crowbar effect on
the wall itself pulling against it from the workbench. In the case of
an aquarium stand that rests on the floor both in the back and in the
front, and is also affixed to the wall, much of the crowbar effect is
alleviated and the load shared by the floor and the wall together.

Hope that makes sense!

TTUL
Gary

[Kris]

(Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) wrote in message >...
> Hi Anna
>
> An exterior wall rests above the foundation and/or on the foundation
> itself, depending of the type of construction.
> An exterior wall has one side inside the house and one outside the
> house.
> In addition there are interior load bearing walls in some, but not all
> homes. These walls are supported by either a foundation also, or most
> by beams placed under them to support the weight they must carry.
>
> An interior wall is actually called a partition wall, it is what
> divides up the inside of the home into the various rooms in that home.
>
> Exterior walls and load bearing walls (if required) are constructed
> first, then the rafters for the roof set in place. This is the
> superstructure of the home.
>
> If your home is over 20 feet wide, in the basement or crawl space you
> will usually find an iron I-Beam running down the middle of the
> basement or crawl space lengthwise of the home. This is a very good
> indication that the wall above it, that is supporting the roof, is a
> load bearing wall. AND that your floor joists resting on this beam
> are the end of a span. So an aquarium placed against a load bearing
> wall has roughly the same load carrying capacity as if it was against
> an exterior wall.
>
> It is normal on frame homes for the floor joists to be resting right
> on the foundation. Whereas on many block homes or masonry homes, the
> floor joists are either A: slipped into slots provided for that
> purpose or B: affixed to stringers that are affixed to the wall or C:
> installed using hangers, or D: a combination of stringers and western
> hangers. Regardless of how the are attached, the 'shear' force for a
> 2x12 remains fairly constant, provided the mounting method is up to
> code and the mount itself does not give way.
>
> FWIW: Many exterior walls are now built using 2x6 studs in order to
> achieve greater insulation properties. An aquarium stand against an
> outer wall, affixed also to these vertical studs will allow a load
> (aquarium weight) that greatly exceeds the capability of the floor
> itself, because the center of gravity of the stand is shifted
> rearward, this also requires the stand be designed to shift the weight
> in this manner. This does apply some of the weight as torque on the
> wall with a force pulling the vertical wall inward.
>
> An example of what I mean is a workbench or table affixed to a wall
> and the legs underneath on the front of the workbench rather than
> going straight down to the floor, slope back to the wall, so they are
> out of the way. All of the weight is supported by the foundation and
> not the floor at all in this case. BUT there is a crowbar effect on
> the wall itself pulling against it from the workbench. In the case of
> an aquarium stand that rests on the floor both in the back and in the
> front, and is also affixed to the wall, much of the crowbar effect is
> alleviated and the load shared by the floor and the wall together.
>
> Hope that makes sense!
>
> TTUL
> Gary


Makes plenty of sense. Thanks again Gary!!

[david]

"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message
...
> Hi Anna
>
> An exterior wall rests above the foundation and/or on the foundation
> itself, depending of the type of construction.
> An exterior wall has one side inside the house and one outside the
> house.
> In addition there are interior load bearing walls in some, but not all
> homes. These walls are supported by either a foundation also, or most
> by beams placed under them to support the weight they must carry.
>
> An interior wall is actually called a partition wall, it is what
> divides up the inside of the home into the various rooms in that home.
>
> Exterior walls and load bearing walls (if required) are constructed
> first, then the rafters for the roof set in place. This is the
> superstructure of the home.
>
> If your home is over 20 feet wide, in the basement or crawl space you
> will usually find an iron I-Beam running down the middle of the
> basement or crawl space lengthwise of the home. This is a very good
> indication that the wall above it, that is supporting the roof, is a
> load bearing wall. AND that your floor joists resting on this beam
> are the end of a span. So an aquarium placed against a load bearing
> wall has roughly the same load carrying capacity as if it was against
> an exterior wall.
>
> It is normal on frame homes for the floor joists to be resting right
> on the foundation. Whereas on many block homes or masonry homes, the
> floor joists are either A: slipped into slots provided for that
> purpose or B: affixed to stringers that are affixed to the wall or C:
> installed using hangers, or D: a combination of stringers and western
> hangers. Regardless of how the are attached, the 'shear' force for a
> 2x12 remains fairly constant, provided the mounting method is up to
> code and the mount itself does not give way.
>
> FWIW: Many exterior walls are now built using 2x6 studs in order to
> achieve greater insulation properties. An aquarium stand against an
> outer wall, affixed also to these vertical studs will allow a load
> (aquarium weight) that greatly exceeds the capability of the floor
> itself, because the center of gravity of the stand is shifted
> rearward, this also requires the stand be designed to shift the weight
> in this manner. This does apply some of the weight as torque on the
> wall with a force pulling the vertical wall inward.
>
> An example of what I mean is a workbench or table affixed to a wall
> and the legs underneath on the front of the workbench rather than
> going straight down to the floor, slope back to the wall, so they are
> out of the way. All of the weight is supported by the foundation and
> not the floor at all in this case. BUT there is a crowbar effect on
> the wall itself pulling against it from the workbench. In the case of
> an aquarium stand that rests on the floor both in the back and in the
> front, and is also affixed to the wall, much of the crowbar effect is
> alleviated and the load shared by the floor and the wall together.
>
> Hope that makes sense!
>
> TTUL
> Gary

a much better answer than I managed :-)

[Boris]

Excellent advice given by all! To find out if you actually have a wooden
or concrete floor, just stick a knife in it and the noise will tell you.
One thing that was not mentioned was that I would remove (just peal
back) the carpet where the tank is going to go and get a 6-8 foot
carpenters level and see if _everything_ in all directions are level.
You can rent one from Home Depot for about $3.


"Kris" > wrote in message
om...
> Greetings All...
>
> I wanted to by my husband a new 140 Gallon SW aquarium, however I have
> some concerns about the weight of this thing. I have read through some
> past post here and have some similarities of what they had as well. I
> live in a pretty new condominium (built 1989) and wanted to know if
> this being such a newer home, would the weight of this aquarium hold.
> It is impossible for me to find joists running under (I have carpet)
> so pretty much its a hit or miss scenario. I did see on one post to
> keep it up against a wall, preferably a wall exactly the same as
> downstairs. Well, the good new is (I guess) is that the unit below has
> the same exact floorplan as we do, nothing more, nothing less. I
> wanted to have it set up against the wall in the dining area. Which is
> the same wall as downstairs. The main concern is now, I dont know if I
> will be on the joists to distribute the weight or if it will be
> parallel to the joists. If it happens to be parallel, should there be
> a concern? HOA would not give me the floorplans nor tell me how the
> joists run. Outside wall? Inside wall? Can someone kindly clear that
> up for me as well. I am not a whiz when it comes to construction so I
> applogize. Any feedback, recommendations on this matter will be
> greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your time.
>
> Anna

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Or you could set a glass of water at each corner and run a piece of
airline between each of the glasses with the airline filled with water
and the ends inside the glasses under the water level.

TTUL
Gary

[Boris]

You _must_ be and engineer?

"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in
message ...
> Or you could set a glass of water at each corner and run a piece of
> airline between each of the glasses with the airline filled with water
> and the ends inside the glasses under the water level.
>
> TTUL
> Gary
>

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

"Boris" > verbositized:

>You _must_ be and engineer?

Nope, just a cheap tightwad!

I had been referred to as McGyver a few too many times!
I thought it was an insult until I finally saw the show on TV.
I would rather sit for hours with my nose against an aquarium than
staring at at idiot box for even a few minutes.

I often wonder how many aquarists, besides myself, have a 400 power or
greater magnifying glass as an important viewing 'tool' in their
aquarium layout?

TTUL
Gary

[Marc Levenson]

"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." wrote:

> Nope, just a cheap tightwad!
>
> I had been referred to as McGyver a few too many times!
> I thought it was an insult until I finally saw the show on TV.
> I would rather sit for hours with my nose against an aquarium than
> staring at at idiot box for even a few minutes.

That is quite a compliment actually. :)

> I often wonder how many aquarists, besides myself, have a 400 power or
> greater magnifying glass as an important viewing 'tool' in their
> aquarium layout?

That is what the Macro lens on my camera is for! This was a very productive
thread!

Marc


--
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Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[JJ]

Hey guys....after reading her original post, it sounds like she's
talking about putting this tank on an UPSTAIRS FLOOR. That's a
different ballgame.

Also, regardless of what the sheer and/or crush strength of the floor
joists is(which, on paper, could support a Mack Truck) the real
concern is sag. Over a period of months or even years, the nature of
wood-under-load is to sag. Especially if that wood gets wet (which we
know NEVER happens under OUR aquariums!) A sag can lead to tortional
or bending loads on the aquarium stand which is then transmitted to
the tank. That's the main reason why a large aquarium will, for no
apparent reason, develop a leak after years of faithful service.

At the very least, (very, very least) place the tank across
(perpendicular) to the floor joists. One step better will be to
determine if there are any structural walls below where you want the
tank. Better yet, talk to a couple contractors and get their opinion
on the structural loading. And one more thing...since it's your
downstairs neighbors who will bear the brunt of any aquarium
disasters...a call to your insurance agent will probably be in order.
(If I lived under you and saw you moving a large aquarium into the
condo above me, I'd be concerned). I'm not trying to dissuade you from
this...just hoping to make you a happy large aquarium owner.

Blue Skies
JJ

[Marc Levenson]

Gary will fill in the details, but what he described in his first post was on
second story joists. They are 12" tall.

I did new home construction for a few years, and had the pleasure of seeing how
a pile of wood turns into a strong stable house.

Marc


JJ wrote:

> Hey guys....after reading her original post, it sounds like she's
> talking about putting this tank on an UPSTAIRS FLOOR. That's a
> different ballgame.
>
> Also, regardless of what the sheer and/or crush strength of the floor
> joists is(which, on paper, could support a Mack Truck) the real
> concern is sag. Over a period of months or even years, the nature of
> wood-under-load is to sag. Especially if that wood gets wet (which we
> know NEVER happens under OUR aquariums!) A sag can lead to tortional
> or bending loads on the aquarium stand which is then transmitted to
> the tank. That's the main reason why a large aquarium will, for no
> apparent reason, develop a leak after years of faithful service.
>
> At the very least, (very, very least) place the tank across
> (perpendicular) to the floor joists. One step better will be to
> determine if there are any structural walls below where you want the
> tank. Better yet, talk to a couple contractors and get their opinion
> on the structural loading. And one more thing...since it's your
> downstairs neighbors who will bear the brunt of any aquarium
> disasters...a call to your insurance agent will probably be in order.
> (If I lived under you and saw you moving a large aquarium into the
> condo above me, I'd be concerned). I'm not trying to dissuade you from
> this...just hoping to make you a happy large aquarium owner.
>
> Blue Skies
> JJ

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
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