Electrical Question

[Travis A.]

I am trying to figure out if need to add more outlets around my tank. In
the future I want to upgrade to MH lighting and was not sure if my current
set up would be safe adding Mh also.

This is what I have now and maybe you could answer my question.

I am currently using 2 outlets, both are on the same circuit. Icecap 660
with 440 watts of VHO lighting, mag 9.5 & 7 for tank circulation & skimmer,
200 watt heater, 2 maxi jet power heads and fan in canopy, & 2 other outlets
for my calcium reactor. In the future I will probably upgrade to 2 175 watt
MH with VHO. My question is would I need to add another outlet or 2 from the
breaker box to run all of this safely or go to a higher amp breaker.

Thanks
Travis

[Richard Reynolds]

what size breaker is your setup on now?
how many other outlets are on it?
whats the wire size for the run?
if you endup running a larger run (probilby not) its gona be cheaper/easier/more
upgradeable to run a heavy guage high amp circuit between the main breaker and a new
junction box near the tank. regardless the junction box can be good for giving extra
outlets which IME you always need more of. more so if you use things that run off of plug
in power transformers which seem to take up 3 outlets.

dont just go to a higher amp breaker the wires should be large enough to handle the load.

--
Richard Reynolds

[J Codling]

If you have a 20A circuit with #12 wire with only these receptacles
connected to it you are allowed:

..8*20*120 watts on that circuit = 1920W

If you have #14 wire then you are allowed .8*15*120 watts = 1440W

Too be conservative maybe use 1500W PER CIRCUIT for 20A and 1200W PER
CIRCUIT for 15A. That isn't per plug, but per circuit. So you need to
verify how the receptacles are wired. Make sure they aren't connected
together on the same breaker by turning off the breaker and make sure those
are the only receptacles that are turned off. . THat's easy to check and
then make sure nothing else is connected to those circuits, otherwise that
takes away from your 1500W. Hope that helps..

Jim




"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:ImNec.83$fq4.67@lakeread05...
> what size breaker is your setup on now?
> how many other outlets are on it?
> whats the wire size for the run?
> if you endup running a larger run (probilby not) its gona be
cheaper/easier/more
> upgradeable to run a heavy guage high amp circuit between the main breaker
and a new
> junction box near the tank. regardless the junction box can be good for
giving extra
> outlets which IME you always need more of. more so if you use things that
run off of plug
> in power transformers which seem to take up 3 outlets.
>
> dont just go to a higher amp breaker the wires should be large enough to
handle the load.
>
> --
> Richard Reynolds
>
>
>

[Steve Sells]

you forgot the 80% rating of max load as per NEC.

IF you are running a circuit at 100%, its asking for trouble. As an
Electrician we NEVER allow a 20A to get over 1800, and as you said 1600 is
normal. 1200 for 15a.

Steve


"J Codling" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> If you have a 20A circuit with #12 wire with only these receptacles
> connected to it you are allowed:
>
> .8*20*120 watts on that circuit = 1920W
>
> If you have #14 wire then you are allowed .8*15*120 watts = 1440W
>
> Too be conservative maybe use 1500W PER CIRCUIT for 20A and 1200W PER
> CIRCUIT for 15A. That isn't per plug, but per circuit. So you need to
> verify how the receptacles are wired. Make sure they aren't connected
> together on the same breaker by turning off the breaker and make sure
those
> are the only receptacles that are turned off. . THat's easy to check and
> then make sure nothing else is connected to those circuits, otherwise that
> takes away from your 1500W. Hope that helps..
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> "Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
> news:ImNec.83$fq4.67@lakeread05...
> > what size breaker is your setup on now?
> > how many other outlets are on it?
> > whats the wire size for the run?
> > if you endup running a larger run (probilby not) its gona be
> cheaper/easier/more
> > upgradeable to run a heavy guage high amp circuit between the main
breaker
> and a new
> > junction box near the tank. regardless the junction box can be good for
> giving extra
> > outlets which IME you always need more of. more so if you use things
that
> run off of plug
> > in power transformers which seem to take up 3 outlets.
> >
> > dont just go to a higher amp breaker the wires should be large enough to
> handle the load.
> >
> > --
> > Richard Reynolds
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[J Codling]

That's why I multiplied it by .8!

:)


"Steve Sells" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> you forgot the 80% rating of max load as per NEC.
>
> IF you are running a circuit at 100%, its asking for trouble. As an
> Electrician we NEVER allow a 20A to get over 1800, and as you said 1600
is
> normal. 1200 for 15a.
>
> Steve
>
>
> "J Codling" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > If you have a 20A circuit with #12 wire with only these receptacles
> > connected to it you are allowed:
> >
> > .8*20*120 watts on that circuit = 1920W
> >
> > If you have #14 wire then you are allowed .8*15*120 watts = 1440W
> >
> > Too be conservative maybe use 1500W PER CIRCUIT for 20A and 1200W PER
> > CIRCUIT for 15A. That isn't per plug, but per circuit. So you need to
> > verify how the receptacles are wired. Make sure they aren't connected
> > together on the same breaker by turning off the breaker and make sure
> those
> > are the only receptacles that are turned off. . THat's easy to check
and
> > then make sure nothing else is connected to those circuits, otherwise
that
> > takes away from your 1500W. Hope that helps..
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
> > news:ImNec.83$fq4.67@lakeread05...
> > > what size breaker is your setup on now?
> > > how many other outlets are on it?
> > > whats the wire size for the run?
> > > if you endup running a larger run (probilby not) its gona be
> > cheaper/easier/more
> > > upgradeable to run a heavy guage high amp circuit between the main
> breaker
> > and a new
> > > junction box near the tank. regardless the junction box can be good
for
> > giving extra
> > > outlets which IME you always need more of. more so if you use things
> that
> > run off of plug
> > > in power transformers which seem to take up 3 outlets.
> > >
> > > dont just go to a higher amp breaker the wires should be large enough
to
> > handle the load.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Richard Reynolds
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[tech27]

"Steve Sells" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> you forgot the 80% rating of max load as per NEC.

That's why he has .8 or 80% in the calculation.

> IF you are running a circuit at 100%, its asking for trouble. As an
> Electrician we NEVER allow a 20A to get over 1800, and as you said 1600
is
> normal. 1200 for 15a.

The simple and extra safe way is to calculate amps x 100 volts for a 120
service.
This gives you 1000 watts for a 15 amp circuit.
The same calculation gives you 2000 watts max for a 20 amp run.

Why do you say that you never want it to go over 1800? That's only 75%. If
you have the proper gge wire and receptacles, what's the problem?


>
> Steve
>
>
> "J Codling" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > If you have a 20A circuit with #12 wire with only these receptacles
> > connected to it you are allowed:
> >
> > .8*20*120 watts on that circuit = 1920W
> >
> > If you have #14 wire then you are allowed .8*15*120 watts = 1440W
> >
> > Too be conservative maybe use 1500W PER CIRCUIT for 20A and 1200W PER
> > CIRCUIT for 15A. That isn't per plug, but per circuit. So you need to
> > verify how the receptacles are wired. Make sure they aren't connected
> > together on the same breaker by turning off the breaker and make sure
> those
> > are the only receptacles that are turned off. . THat's easy to check
and
> > then make sure nothing else is connected to those circuits, otherwise
that
> > takes away from your 1500W. Hope that helps..
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
> > news:ImNec.83$fq4.67@lakeread05...
> > > what size breaker is your setup on now?
> > > how many other outlets are on it?
> > > whats the wire size for the run?
> > > if you endup running a larger run (probilby not) its gona be
> > cheaper/easier/more
> > > upgradeable to run a heavy guage high amp circuit between the main
> breaker
> > and a new
> > > junction box near the tank. regardless the junction box can be good
for
> > giving extra
> > > outlets which IME you always need more of. more so if you use things
> that
> > run off of plug
> > > in power transformers which seem to take up 3 outlets.
> > >
> > > dont just go to a higher amp breaker the wires should be large enough
to
> > handle the load.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Richard Reynolds
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Steve Sells]

>
> That's why he has .8 or 80% in the calculation.

I miss read that.he did include it. My bad.
>
<snip>
>
> Why do you say that you never want it to go over 1800? That's only 75%. If
> you have the proper gge wire and receptacles, what's the problem?


Voltage drop from the distance needs to be figured in for wire gauge also.
So does Ambient temperature. example 12 gauge wire is fine for most lines,
but if I am running a line to the back yard, the voltage drop may make it
only safe for 9 or10 amps, so we may have to use 10 or even 8 guage to allow
the full power we need. and a hot location for wiring lowers the amps that
can pass safely.

We use round numbers for most applications for "Off the cuff " figures. I
should have used the calculations, like when we do a blue print, with all
the voltage drop, resistance for ambient temperatures, Wire Jacket type, and
the load also figured in.

Since the code says Not over 80% we add a little to cover being too lazy to
re-calculate every run on a job site, the round numbers, tell us if we are
safe, IF it is "over" the round numbers we use... then we get out the code
book, and a calculator and then double check the full formula before
installing the lines.

Its like when we drive a car, we know about how fast we are driving, but
when we see a cop, we LOOK at the speedometer, to make sure we are not in
trouble. I need to be clearer when I post.

Sorry

Steve

[Richard Reynolds]

> Its like when we drive a car, we know about how fast we are driving, but
> when we see a cop, we LOOK at the speedometer, to make sure we are not in
> trouble.

I know and i usually have to slow down like 30-40mph also :D they always frown on 95mph in
the 65 zones


--
Richard Reynolds

[tech27]

No need to apologize, I was just curious.

I realize that runs and temp come into play, but I think you would have to
have a pretty long run in a very hot environment to cause any problems IF
you are using all appropriate materials for a 20 amp run.

We have one installation (I do sound/video and lighting-the big power draw)
and we put in our own 800 amp xformer and ran feeds up to the location. Then
we distributed it from a subpanel on Socapex as required. This setup should
handle most aquarium needs. Probably all of Sea World. (-;


"Steve Sells" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> >
> > That's why he has .8 or 80% in the calculation.
>
> I miss read that.he did include it. My bad.
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > Why do you say that you never want it to go over 1800? That's only 75%.
If
> > you have the proper gge wire and receptacles, what's the problem?
>
>
> Voltage drop from the distance needs to be figured in for wire gauge also.
> So does Ambient temperature. example 12 gauge wire is fine for most
lines,
> but if I am running a line to the back yard, the voltage drop may make it
> only safe for 9 or10 amps, so we may have to use 10 or even 8 guage to
allow
> the full power we need. and a hot location for wiring lowers the amps
that
> can pass safely.
>
> We use round numbers for most applications for "Off the cuff " figures.
I
> should have used the calculations, like when we do a blue print, with all
> the voltage drop, resistance for ambient temperatures, Wire Jacket type,
and
> the load also figured in.
>
> Since the code says Not over 80% we add a little to cover being too lazy
to
> re-calculate every run on a job site, the round numbers, tell us if we are
> safe, IF it is "over" the round numbers we use... then we get out the
code
> book, and a calculator and then double check the full formula before
> installing the lines.
>
> Its like when we drive a car, we know about how fast we are driving, but
> when we see a cop, we LOOK at the speedometer, to make sure we are not in
> trouble. I need to be clearer when I post.
>
> Sorry
>
> Steve
>
>

[Steve Sells]

I have used the Leprechaun controllers with remote dimmers and big Pars...
but usually I just play bass...

Steve

"tech27" >
> No need to apologize, I was just curious.
>
> I realize that runs and temp come into play, but I think you would have to
> have a pretty long run in a very hot environment to cause any problems IF
> you are using all appropriate materials for a 20 amp run.
>
> We have one installation (I do sound/video and lighting-the big power
draw)
> and we put in our own 800 amp xformer and ran feeds up to the location.
Then
> we distributed it from a subpanel on Socapex as required. This setup
should
> handle most aquarium needs. Probably all of Sea World. (-;
>