Base Rock/Sand Placement

[D.S.]

When starting a new tank, what is the best way to place the live sand/rock?
Do you put the sand in first, the the rock on top? Or do you put in the
rock in first and place the sand around it?

Opinions?
--
D.S.

[PaulB]

I would put the rock in first. The reason is that the sand can shift and
cause rock slides.

"D.S." > wrote in message
...
> When starting a new tank, what is the best way to place the live
sand/rock?
> Do you put the sand in first, the the rock on top? Or do you put in the
> rock in first and place the sand around it?
>
> Opinions?
> --
> D.S.
>
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

Yes, it is done both ways. If you want to keep the rock in place, you might
consider putting in some 4" pieces of PVC to act as pillars. That way if/when
the sand shifts, the rock will stay in place. 4" tall is just enough to hide it
in a 4" DSB.

Marc


"D.S." wrote:

> When starting a new tank, what is the best way to place the live sand/rock?
> Do you put the sand in first, the the rock on top? Or do you put in the
> rock in first and place the sand around it?
>
> Opinions?
> --
> D.S.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Richard Reynolds]

> When starting a new tank, what is the best way to place the live sand/rock?
> Do you put the sand in first, the the rock on top? Or do you put in the
> rock in first and place the sand around it?

your not going to get the answer you want,

if you have a DSB the best method generally is dead sand followed by live sand followed by
base rock followed by the better live rock.
if you have a shallow sand bed then whatever,
if you dont have sand then whatcha asking for :D

> Opinions?
there are a few actual reasons, but yep thats all your gona get :D

--
Richard Reynolds

[D.S.]

>your not going to get the answer you want<

Actually, Marc gave me the answer I was looking for.
Thanks Marc!

D.S.
"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:NHVuc.1811$CW.199@lakeread05...
> > When starting a new tank, what is the best way to place the live
sand/rock?
> > Do you put the sand in first, the the rock on top? Or do you put in the
> > rock in first and place the sand around it?
>
> your not going to get the answer you want,
>
> if you have a DSB the best method generally is dead sand followed by live
sand followed by
> base rock followed by the better live rock.
> if you have a shallow sand bed then whatever,
> if you dont have sand then whatcha asking for :D
>
> > Opinions?
> there are a few actual reasons, but yep thats all your gona get :D
>
> --
> Richard Reynolds
>
>
>

[RicSeyler]

Just make sure the rocks are against the glass bottom..
They will end up there at a later date anyway and if you
do it first you won't have a collapse later.....

D.S. wrote:

>When starting a new tank, what is the best way to place the live sand/rock?
>Do you put the sand in first, the the rock on top? Or do you put in the
>rock in first and place the sand around it?
>
>Opinions?
>
>

--
Ric Seyler

[Richard Reynolds]

your better off setting the rock ontop of a DSB, otherwise your dsb will not be as
effective, with proper sand and rock placement rocks wont settle at a fast enough rate to
matter.

--
Richard Reynolds

[Rod]

I like to have some rock burried, and some on top of the sand bed.. I try to
create a niche for every critter.. some prefer to burrow under rock work, and
some around..

[RicSeyler]

Better not have a high reef built or you will get a collapse...
If you have critters that live in the sand, that is :-)

Richard Reynolds wrote:

>your better off setting the rock ontop of a DSB, otherwise your dsb will not be as
>effective, with proper sand and rock placement rocks wont settle at a fast enough rate to
>matter.
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler

[Richard Reynolds]

> Better not have a high reef built or you will get a collapse...
> If you have critters that live in the sand, that is :-)
first thats not true, second the burried rocks decrease the sand bed useable by critters,
look in dr. rons forum for what i *think* is called edge effect, basically the critters
live away from large objects, burried rocks decrease the useable space. decreasing the
value of the DSB

--
Richard Reynolds

[RicSeyler]

SOOOO you wanna fight HUH???? You have to ask
yourself...... are you fast enough to catch me??? hehehehehe
Jus Jokin bud ;-)

But how can that be Rich?
I know with my cliff/wall style of rock setup, if any foundation
rock shifted it would collapse.. I have many open areas, caves
and very "craggy" hand picked rocks. It's literally a house of cards..
But looks very nice and natural.

I understand what your saying about the DSB might not be as effective,
but I feel certain any rock will end up on the bottom, if given enough time,
with sand critters present..

Now if you had a reef built from slab or uninteresting shaped rock
(similar to TBS) I could see where you could build a stable reef with
the rock "floating" on the sand. But not my type of setup..




Richard Reynolds wrote:

>>Better not have a high reef built or you will get a collapse...
>>If you have critters that live in the sand, that is :-)
>>
>>
>first thats not true, second the burried rocks decrease the sand bed useable by critters,
>look in dr. rons forum for what i *think* is called edge effect, basically the critters
>live away from large objects, burried rocks decrease the useable space. decreasing the
>value of the DSB
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler

[CapFusion]

"RicSeyler" > wrote in message ...
SOOOO you wanna fight HUH???? You have to ask
yourself...... are you fast enough to catch me??? hehehehehe
Jus Jokin bud ;-)

But how can that be Rich?
I know with my cliff/wall style of rock setup, if any foundation
rock shifted it would collapse.. I have many open areas, caves
and very "craggy" hand picked rocks. It's literally a house of cards..
But looks very nice and natural.

I understand what your saying about the DSB might not be as effective,
but I feel certain any rock will end up on the bottom, if given enough time,
with sand critters present..

Now if you had a reef built from slab or uninteresting shaped rock
(similar to TBS) I could see where you could build a stable reef with
the rock "floating" on the sand. But not my type of setup..
Yeah,.... take you on anything!

Well... depend on how it put together as a whole to support each rock. Some Reefer will use glue to glue each part of the rock in place [permanent] for knowning it will stay-put.

CapFusion,...

[RicSeyler]

Yea, I've seen where some have drilled the rock and used plastic pins,
and some that have used plastic zip ties in areas not visible.

I do see what Rich is saying and it makes sense. But I wanted my
reef on the tank bottom and stable for my "open" reef build.

(old pic)
http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/_/r_seyler/side1.jpg




CapFusion wrote:

> "RicSeyler" >>
> wrote in message ...
>
> SOOOO you wanna fight HUH???? You have to ask
> yourself...... are you fast enough to catch me??? hehehehehe
> Jus Jokin bud ;-)
>
> But how can that be Rich?
> I know with my cliff/wall style of rock setup, if any foundation
> rock shifted it would collapse.. I have many open areas, caves
> and very "craggy" hand picked rocks. It's literally a house of cards..
> But looks very nice and natural.
>
> I understand what your saying about the DSB might not be as effective,
> but I feel certain any rock will end up on the bottom, if given
> enough time,
> with sand critters present..
>
> Now if you had a reef built from slab or uninteresting shaped rock
> (similar to TBS) I could see where you could build a stable reef with
> the rock "floating" on the sand. But not my type of setup..
>
> Yeah,.... take you on anything!
>
> Well... depend on how it put together as a whole to support each rock.
> Some Reefer will use glue to glue each part of the rock in place
> [permanent] for knowning it will stay-put.
>
> CapFusion,...


--
Ric Seyler

[Richard Reynolds]

> SOOOO you wanna fight HUH????
yea yea yea

>You have to ask
> yourself...... are you fast enough to catch me???
probibly not, 2 months ago i broke my food :( 2 weeks ago i was allowed to run/ride again,
it took me almost an hour to run 5 silly miles tuesday pm, im sooo out of shape.

> But how can that be Rich?
> I know with my cliff/wall style of rock setup, if any foundation
> rock shifted it would collapse.. I have many open areas, caves
> and very "craggy" hand picked rocks. It's literally a house of cards..
> But looks very nice and natural.
ive built rocks up the sides of a 150XH with nothing in the middle or along the back wall,
its coool that way :D

but back to the basics, the sand creates a very good bed to put rocks on, even with the
worms and such crawling thru the sand they only do soo much, with some simple and all but
required bracing either with rocks or with other things like pvc, zipties ......you can
keep anything up.

> I understand what your saying about the DSB might not be as effective,
> but I feel certain any rock will end up on the bottom, if given enough time,
> with sand critters present..
yea maybee in 1000 years, (ok exagurated but still)


--
Richard Reynolds

[D.S.]

So, What your saying is that by putting anything under the rocks, it will
reduce the effectiveness of the DSB? And by just placing the rocks on top
of the bed, they won't settle very much? Right?

D.S.

"Richard Reynolds" > wrote in message
news:ih6wc.1360$5B2.1267@lakeread04...
> > SOOOO you wanna fight HUH????
> yea yea yea
>
> >You have to ask
> > yourself...... are you fast enough to catch me???
> probibly not, 2 months ago i broke my food :( 2 weeks ago i was allowed to
run/ride again,
> it took me almost an hour to run 5 silly miles tuesday pm, im sooo out of
shape.
>
> > But how can that be Rich?
> > I know with my cliff/wall style of rock setup, if any foundation
> > rock shifted it would collapse.. I have many open areas, caves
> > and very "craggy" hand picked rocks. It's literally a house of cards..
> > But looks very nice and natural.
> ive built rocks up the sides of a 150XH with nothing in the middle or
along the back wall,
> its coool that way :D
>
> but back to the basics, the sand creates a very good bed to put rocks on,
even with the
> worms and such crawling thru the sand they only do soo much, with some
simple and all but
> required bracing either with rocks or with other things like pvc, zipties
.......you can
> keep anything up.
>
> > I understand what your saying about the DSB might not be as effective,
> > but I feel certain any rock will end up on the bottom, if given enough
time,
> > with sand critters present..
> yea maybee in 1000 years, (ok exagurated but still)
>
>
> --
> Richard Reynolds
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Richard Reynolds]

> So, What your saying is that by putting anything under the rocks, it will
> reduce the effectiveness of the DSB?
yes.

> And by just placing the rocks on top
> of the bed, they won't settle very much? Right?

well there is no amount of stupidity i can protect anyone from, but yes if the rocks are
placed carefully, not just gently but also so there are few sharp edges pointing into the
sandbed and such, they will not settle to any noticeable level.


--
Richard Reynolds

[Marc Levenson]

I still love that tank! Have you made any changes to the equipment or setup?
Are you still using mirrors in the canopy?

This tank got cooked and you lost some stuff last summer. How is it looking
presently?

Marc


RicSeyler wrote:

> Yea, I've seen where some have drilled the rock and used plastic pins,
> and some that have used plastic zip ties in areas not visible.
>
> I do see what Rich is saying and it makes sense. But I wanted my
> reef on the tank bottom and stable for my "open" reef build.
>
> (old pic)
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/_/r_seyler/side1.jpg

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[RicSeyler]

Marc Levenson wrote:

>I still love that tank! Have you made any changes to the equipment or setup?
>Are you still using mirrors in the canopy?
>
Yep, I have the canopy lined with mirrors inside the doors. Dunno if it
actually helps, the mirrors
aren't angled down or anything, but it does bounce the light around
inside the canopy.
And I have basically the same setup.

>
>This tank got cooked and you lost some stuff last summer. How is it looking
>presently?
>
It's looking real nice, the SPS are starting to intermingle. They no
longer look placed in the tank.
I do have some algae problems I'm still dealing with. Bryopsis. But it's
not too bad. And I have
those green Zoo polyps growing everywhere. All of my rock will
eventually be covered with those things..
They look real nice, but I would of rather had the rock exposed. More
places to put SPS :-)

I'll snap some fresh pics.

>
>Marc
>
>
>RicSeyler wrote:
>
>
>
>>Yea, I've seen where some have drilled the rock and used plastic pins,
>>and some that have used plastic zip ties in areas not visible.
>>
>>I do see what Rich is saying and it makes sense. But I wanted my
>>reef on the tank bottom and stable for my "open" reef build.
>>
>>(old pic)
>>http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/_/r_seyler/side1.jpg
>>
>>
>
>--
>Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
>Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
>Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler

[RicSeyler]

Richard Reynolds wrote:

>>SOOOO you wanna fight HUH????
>>
>>
>yea yea yea
>
>
>
>>You have to ask
>>yourself...... are you fast enough to catch me???
>>
>>
>probibly not, 2 months ago i broke my food :( 2 weeks ago i was allowed to run/ride again,
>it took me almost an hour to run 5 silly miles tuesday pm, im sooo out of shape.
>
SOOOO it's my time to pounce?!?!? ;-)
hehehehe

>
>
>
>>But how can that be Rich?
>>I know with my cliff/wall style of rock setup, if any foundation
>>rock shifted it would collapse.. I have many open areas, caves
>>and very "craggy" hand picked rocks. It's literally a house of cards..
>>But looks very nice and natural.
>>
>>
>ive built rocks up the sides of a 150XH with nothing in the middle or along the back wall,
>its coool that way :D
>
>but back to the basics, the sand creates a very good bed to put rocks on, even with the
>worms and such crawling thru the sand they only do soo much, with some simple and all but
>required bracing either with rocks or with other things like pvc, zipties ......you can
>keep anything up.
>
>
>
>>I understand what your saying about the DSB might not be as effective,
>>but I feel certain any rock will end up on the bottom, if given enough time,
>>with sand critters present..
>>
>>
>yea maybee in 1000 years, (ok exagurated but still)
>
NOOOO, tests confirm it should take no longer than 675
years.................. :-)

>
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler