garf aragocrete question

[John Smith]

anyone try this stuff? The shapes look awesome and if it does indeed take
to becoming live when seeded, it'd make a nice base (from the pics anyhow)

I've never ordered from them but am considering it, just looking for
feedback, good or bad.

Thanks

[Marc Levenson]

One of our club members wrote an article about aragocrete that he's made, and
his tank looked amazing.

http://www.dfwmas.com/pdf_files/July%20newsletter.pdf

Marc


John Smith wrote:

> anyone try this stuff? The shapes look awesome and if it does indeed take
> to becoming live when seeded, it'd make a nice base (from the pics anyhow)
>
> I've never ordered from them but am considering it, just looking for
> feedback, good or bad.
>
> Thanks

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[skozzy]

I have made 1 rock so far. Using the same methods. I went to the hardware
store and bought a bag of white concret, then mixed it with crushed coral at
a mix of 1 part concret and 5 or 6 parts of crush coral. I had a foam bucket
ready with a few inch layer of damp sand, I made my shape in the sand, layed
the mix of concret and crushed coral in the shape and left it overnight. The
next day I have a fairly hard rock.

I tryed a second time using less concret and everything fell apart. Since
then I havn't made any more, but I have enough left there to make about 5
more rocks, then I need to buy some more crushed coral. You go through the
stuff quick.

I havn't looked into any other gear to use inplace of the crushed coral yet.
I guess one day I will. Crushed coral isn't cheap, well not here anyhow.


"John Smith" > wrote in message
news:YiTvc.15589$aM1.1471@fed1read02...
> anyone try this stuff? The shapes look awesome and if it does indeed take
> to becoming live when seeded, it'd make a nice base (from the pics anyhow)
>
> I've never ordered from them but am considering it, just looking for
> feedback, good or bad.
>
> Thanks
>
>

[Tidepool Geek]

"skozzy" > wrote in message
...
> I have made 1 rock so far. Using the same methods. I went to the hardware
> store and bought a bag of white concret, then mixed it with crushed coral
at
> a mix of 1 part concret and 5 or 6 parts of crush coral.
>
> I havn't looked into any other gear to use inplace of the crushed coral
yet.
> I guess one day I will. Crushed coral isn't cheap, well not here anyhow.
>
Howdy,

If you have access to a feed store (farm not pet) you can get crushed oyster
shell for far less money. [For those of you non-4H club folks, crushed
oyster shell is sold as a feed supplement for chickens.] Typical analysis is
in the mid 90% range CaCO3. Use the same 5 to 1 mix. The resulting 'rock'
may be somewhat less porous than you get with crushed coral but that can be
remedied by adding a small amount of broken up pasta to the mix; during the
underwater portion of the curing process the pasta will dissolve leaving a
bunch of tiny channels for better water penetration.

I can't remember where I first heard of the oyster shell alternative but the
pasta idea used to be on the GARF site (maybe it still is).

Frugally yours,

TG

[Benjamin]

Does this qualify as becoming live?
http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/pictures/imga.html
Most of my website revolves around making one's own rock so feel free to
look around. I know it needs a major overhaul, more new pictures, etc., but
I haven't the time currently. I have been known to send out samples (I
don't sell it) as well if your interested.

I haven't ordered from Garf so cannot comment. Making your own instead of
buying it from them seems the cheaper way to go. Depending on what your end
goal is you may want to look at Hirocks ( http://www.hirocks.com ) also.
They didn't have such low priced base rock when I started. So making ones
own was the cheapest way to go and that's where I went.
--
--

My Web Site: http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/



"John Smith" > wrote in message
news:YiTvc.15589$aM1.1471@fed1read02...
> anyone try this stuff? The shapes look awesome and if it does indeed take
> to becoming live when seeded, it'd make a nice base (from the pics anyhow)
>
> I've never ordered from them but am considering it, just looking for
> feedback, good or bad.
>
> Thanks
>
>

[skozzy]

I also read to used rock salt in the mix, I will be trying that next time
too.


"Tidepool Geek" > wrote in message
...
> "skozzy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have made 1 rock so far. Using the same methods. I went to the
hardware
> > store and bought a bag of white concret, then mixed it with crushed
coral
> at
> > a mix of 1 part concret and 5 or 6 parts of crush coral.
> >
> > I havn't looked into any other gear to use inplace of the crushed coral
> yet.
> > I guess one day I will. Crushed coral isn't cheap, well not here anyhow.
> >
> Howdy,
>
> If you have access to a feed store (farm not pet) you can get crushed
oyster
> shell for far less money. [For those of you non-4H club folks, crushed
> oyster shell is sold as a feed supplement for chickens.] Typical analysis
is
> in the mid 90% range CaCO3. Use the same 5 to 1 mix. The resulting 'rock'
> may be somewhat less porous than you get with crushed coral but that can
be
> remedied by adding a small amount of broken up pasta to the mix; during
the
> underwater portion of the curing process the pasta will dissolve leaving a
> bunch of tiny channels for better water penetration.
>
> I can't remember where I first heard of the oyster shell alternative but
the
> pasta idea used to be on the GARF site (maybe it still is).
>
> Frugally yours,
>
> TG
>
>

[CheezWiz]

I have read elsewhere that salt can inhibit the concrete curing process...

"skozzy" > wrote in message
...
> I also read to used rock salt in the mix, I will be trying that next time
> too.
>
>
> "Tidepool Geek" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "skozzy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I have made 1 rock so far. Using the same methods. I went to the
> hardware
> > > store and bought a bag of white concret, then mixed it with crushed
> coral
> > at
> > > a mix of 1 part concret and 5 or 6 parts of crush coral.
> > >
> > > I havn't looked into any other gear to use inplace of the crushed
coral
> > yet.
> > > I guess one day I will. Crushed coral isn't cheap, well not here
anyhow.
> > >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > If you have access to a feed store (farm not pet) you can get crushed
> oyster
> > shell for far less money. [For those of you non-4H club folks, crushed
> > oyster shell is sold as a feed supplement for chickens.] Typical
analysis
> is
> > in the mid 90% range CaCO3. Use the same 5 to 1 mix. The resulting
'rock'
> > may be somewhat less porous than you get with crushed coral but that can
> be
> > remedied by adding a small amount of broken up pasta to the mix; during
> the
> > underwater portion of the curing process the pasta will dissolve leaving
a
> > bunch of tiny channels for better water penetration.
> >
> > I can't remember where I first heard of the oyster shell alternative but
> the
> > pasta idea used to be on the GARF site (maybe it still is).
> >
> > Frugally yours,
> >
> > TG
> >
> >
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

Hi Ben,

Nice picture of your rock. How's your reef and your site progressing?

Marc


Benjamin wrote:

> Does this qualify as becoming live?
> http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/pictures/imga.html
> Most of my website revolves around making one's own rock so feel free to
> look around. I know it needs a major overhaul, more new pictures, etc., but
> I haven't the time currently. I have been known to send out samples (I
> don't sell it) as well if your interested.
>
> I haven't ordered from Garf so cannot comment. Making your own instead of
> buying it from them seems the cheaper way to go. Depending on what your end
> goal is you may want to look at Hirocks ( http://www.hirocks.com ) also.
> They didn't have such low priced base rock when I started. So making ones
> own was the cheapest way to go and that's where I went.
> --
> --
>
> My Web Site: http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/
>
> "John Smith" > wrote in message
> news:YiTvc.15589$aM1.1471@fed1read02...
> > anyone try this stuff? The shapes look awesome and if it does indeed take
> > to becoming live when seeded, it'd make a nice base (from the pics anyhow)
> >
> > I've never ordered from them but am considering it, just looking for
> > feedback, good or bad.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Benjamin]

Marc,

Thanks! I read about a dozen how to's, including yours, before I could make
the new $150 Cannon A60 take them that good. Almost thought I'd never get
away from bad pictures.
The tank is sitting dry currently. What's left of the inhabitants are in a
50 gallon water trough-rigged up-temp tank, the rest of the rock is in a 35
gallon trash can. They were casualties of building a new house. I had to
move twice in the last 4 months. When I get their area finished off I'll
reassemble the tank and re-do the website. I'll take pic's along the way
and see how it goes.
How goes your acrylic battles? Got it all mastered yet? The last of your
sumps I saw looked quite good to say the least.
--
--

My Web Site: http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/



"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Ben,
>
> Nice picture of your rock. How's your reef and your site progressing?
>
> Marc
>
>
> Benjamin wrote:
>
> > Does this qualify as becoming live?
> > http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/pictures/imga.html
> > Most of my website revolves around making one's own rock so feel free to
> > look around. I know it needs a major overhaul, more new pictures, etc.,
but
> > I haven't the time currently. I have been known to send out samples (I
> > don't sell it) as well if your interested.
> >
> > I haven't ordered from Garf so cannot comment. Making your own instead
of
> > buying it from them seems the cheaper way to go. Depending on what your
end
> > goal is you may want to look at Hirocks ( http://www.hirocks.com )
also.
> > They didn't have such low priced base rock when I started. So making
ones
> > own was the cheapest way to go and that's where I went.
> > --
> > --
> >
> > My Web Site: http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/
> >
> > "John Smith" > wrote in message
> > news:YiTvc.15589$aM1.1471@fed1read02...
> > > anyone try this stuff? The shapes look awesome and if it does indeed
take
> > > to becoming live when seeded, it'd make a nice base (from the pics
anyhow)
> > >
> > > I've never ordered from them but am considering it, just looking for
> > > feedback, good or bad.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[skozzy]

Do you be curing as in setting hard or the time it takes for the alkaline to
dissipate ?.

I was going to use it so after the rock had set and you put it in water the
salt washes away and leaves the rock with many small holes, good places for
little creatures to hide.


"CheezWiz" > wrote in message
...
> I have read elsewhere that salt can inhibit the concrete curing process...
>
> "skozzy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I also read to used rock salt in the mix, I will be trying that next
time
> > too.
> >
> >
> > "Tidepool Geek" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "skozzy" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I have made 1 rock so far. Using the same methods. I went to the
> > hardware
> > > > store and bought a bag of white concret, then mixed it with crushed
> > coral
> > > at
> > > > a mix of 1 part concret and 5 or 6 parts of crush coral.
> > > >
> > > > I havn't looked into any other gear to use inplace of the crushed
> coral
> > > yet.
> > > > I guess one day I will. Crushed coral isn't cheap, well not here
> anyhow.
> > > >
> > > Howdy,
> > >
> > > If you have access to a feed store (farm not pet) you can get crushed
> > oyster
> > > shell for far less money. [For those of you non-4H club folks, crushed
> > > oyster shell is sold as a feed supplement for chickens.] Typical
> analysis
> > is
> > > in the mid 90% range CaCO3. Use the same 5 to 1 mix. The resulting
> 'rock'
> > > may be somewhat less porous than you get with crushed coral but that
can
> > be
> > > remedied by adding a small amount of broken up pasta to the mix;
during
> > the
> > > underwater portion of the curing process the pasta will dissolve
leaving
> a
> > > bunch of tiny channels for better water penetration.
> > >
> > > I can't remember where I first heard of the oyster shell alternative
but
> > the
> > > pasta idea used to be on the GARF site (maybe it still is).
> > >
> > > Frugally yours,
> > >
> > > TG
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[skozzy]

> Do you be curing as in setting hard or the time it takes for the alkaline
to
> dissipate ?.

I should have said:

Do you mean curing .....

[CheezWiz]

Yes,

Mixing salt in while the concrete is wet, which is the whole point of adding
a dissolving medium, supposedly upsets the chemical reaction that allows the
cement to harden properly. I would suggest you continue reading the GARF
pages for info. I am not sure where I read that one either....


"skozzy" > wrote in message
...
> > Do you be curing as in setting hard or the time it takes for the
alkaline
> to
> > dissipate ?.
>
> I should have said:
>
> Do you mean curing .....
>
>

[skozzy]

> Mixing salt in while the concrete is wet, which is the whole point of
adding
> a dissolving medium, supposedly upsets the chemical reaction that allows
the
> cement to harden properly. I would suggest you continue reading the GARF
> pages for info. I am not sure where I read that one either....

Thanks for the heads up.

[Marc Levenson]

When my dad had his driveway poured in the 1980s, I watched with fascination.
They spread the concrete, and let it begin to cure. Then they smoothed it
beautifully.

Suddenly this guy started throwing little diamonds all over the concrete, and
another guy worked his way onto the concrete to press in the little pieces and
smooth the driveway again. Tursn out the diamonds were rock salt.

Two days later, my dad was told to rinse the driveway with a garden hose,
melting away all salt, leaving these unique-shaped small cavities all over the
surface. It was really neat.

I would imagine the same coud be done in aragocrete, after it had set up for a
couple of hours or more. It would add some character to an otherwise boring
blob of concrete. I have no idea if it would be okay, but adding pink concrete
coloring to the concrete would be even nicer, in anticipation of coralline
growth.

Marc

CheezWiz wrote:

> Yes,
>
> Mixing salt in while the concrete is wet, which is the whole point of adding
> a dissolving medium, supposedly upsets the chemical reaction that allows the
> cement to harden properly. I would suggest you continue reading the GARF
> pages for info. I am not sure where I read that one either....
>
> "skozzy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > Do you be curing as in setting hard or the time it takes for the
> alkaline
> > to
> > > dissipate ?.
> >
> > I should have said:
> >
> > Do you mean curing .....
> >
> >

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Marc Levenson]

Wow, two moves in 4 months? What are you doing, running from the IRS? <grin>

I'm happy to hear you are getting better images with your camera. You can
intersperse those pictures in your documentaries on your site. :^P Be sure to
post the link so we can follow your progress on the new set up.

I'm doing okay with acrylic. It is enjoyable work when I have the time, and
each one gives me more practice. I've built 75 sumps now. I like the odd
projects, like the cooling fan tray I made last month:
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/fan_tray.html

Marc


Benjamin wrote:

> Marc,
>
> Thanks! I read about a dozen how to's, including yours, before I could make
> the new $150 Cannon A60 take them that good. Almost thought I'd never get
> away from bad pictures.
> The tank is sitting dry currently. What's left of the inhabitants are in a
> 50 gallon water trough-rigged up-temp tank, the rest of the rock is in a 35
> gallon trash can. They were casualties of building a new house. I had to
> move twice in the last 4 months. When I get their area finished off I'll
> reassemble the tank and re-do the website. I'll take pic's along the way
> and see how it goes.
> How goes your acrylic battles? Got it all mastered yet? The last of your
> sumps I saw looked quite good to say the least.
> --
> --
>
> My Web Site: http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> > Nice picture of your rock. How's your reef and your site progressing?
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> > Benjamin wrote:
> >
> > > Does this qualify as becoming live?
> > > http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/pictures/imga.html
> > > Most of my website revolves around making one's own rock so feel free to
> > > look around. I know it needs a major overhaul, more new pictures, etc.,
> but
> > > I haven't the time currently. I have been known to send out samples (I
> > > don't sell it) as well if your interested.
> > >
> > > I haven't ordered from Garf so cannot comment. Making your own instead
> of
> > > buying it from them seems the cheaper way to go. Depending on what your
> end
> > > goal is you may want to look at Hirocks ( http://www.hirocks.com )
> also.
> > > They didn't have such low priced base rock when I started. So making
> ones
> > > own was the cheapest way to go and that's where I went.
> > > --
> > > --
> > >
> > > My Web Site: http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/
> > >
> > > "John Smith" > wrote in message
> > > news:YiTvc.15589$aM1.1471@fed1read02...
> > > > anyone try this stuff? The shapes look awesome and if it does indeed
> take
> > > > to becoming live when seeded, it'd make a nice base (from the pics
> anyhow)
> > > >
> > > > I've never ordered from them but am considering it, just looking for
> > > > feedback, good or bad.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> >
> >

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Marx]

Marc Levenson wrote:

> Two days later, my dad was told to rinse the driveway with a garden hose,
> melting away all salt, leaving these unique-shaped small cavities all over the
> surface. It was really neat.
instead of it you can prick fresh made rock with match to make rough surface

> I would imagine the same coud be done in aragocrete, after it had set up for a
> couple of hours or more. It would add some character to an otherwise boring
> blob of concrete. I have no idea if it would be okay, but adding pink concrete
> coloring to the concrete would be even nicer, in anticipation of coralline
> growth.
It should be done only if this pigment is known to be non-toxic.
There are such pigments, because i saw pictures of firm making pink
aragocrete, putting it into ocean and the selling it as live "rock".
In Europe you can buy edible pigments, they are marked as E-xxx (where
xxx is number). I've read abut them, but couldn't find one.
Marx

[JohnnyE000]

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/fan3.jpg

Marc, is that a baby magnolia tree I see? I swear that's a little too woody
looking to be a water plant lol.

About the salt thing. I would not recommend it. The same way sal****er breaks
down reefs into calcium, would be essentially the same thing if you added salt
to your _mix_. Now pressing it on the outside may be considered and may not be
detrimental to the whole structure of the rock, but would probably make the
exterior brittle. Also one other thing I found with google, you _should not_
use ocean sand with cement as it contains salts. I'm just a newbie so I'm not
sure if its called aragocrete because its has aragonite in it but regular sand
IMO would be fine if you have to end up seeding the rock anyways.

Things I would recommend for making holes in surface of rock:
White bread, balled up.
Spaghetti, not sure how your mileage would vary on that one. Rigatoni would be
better for small tunnels or more excavation.

[Marc Levenson]

That is a mangrove plant. Some of us like to add a little nature to the tank, and
mangroves can help remove nitrates. In Cancun, there are vast acres filled with
mangroves along the coastline, and they provide shelter for fry (newly hatched
fish) in the root system. The plant sucks up brackish (salty water) and extracts
fresh water for its needs. The roots hold the sediment in place, so that the
neighboring reef continues to be safe.

It is amazing what you can learn reading one of those airline magazines on your way
home. I wish I'd read it as I was heading to Cancun as I would have been much more
observant then!

Marc


JohnnyE000 wrote:

> http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/fan3.jpg
>
> Marc, is that a baby magnolia tree I see? I swear that's a little too woody
> looking to be a water plant lol.
>
> About the salt thing. I would not recommend it. The same way sal****er breaks
> down reefs into calcium, would be essentially the same thing if you added salt
> to your _mix_. Now pressing it on the outside may be considered and may not be
> detrimental to the whole structure of the rock, but would probably make the
> exterior brittle. Also one other thing I found with google, you _should not_
> use ocean sand with cement as it contains salts. I'm just a newbie so I'm not
> sure if its called aragocrete because its has aragonite in it but regular sand
> IMO would be fine if you have to end up seeding the rock anyways.
>
> Things I would recommend for making holes in surface of rock:
> White bread, balled up.
> Spaghetti, not sure how your mileage would vary on that one. Rigatoni would be
> better for small tunnels or more excavation.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Philip Lewis]

"Tidepool Geek" > writes:
>I can't remember where I first heard of the oyster shell alternative but the
>pasta idea used to be on the GARF site (maybe it still is).

I made some rock years ago with oyster shell, coral sand, and portland (not
riverside white) cement. i always seemed to have structure
problems with my rocks... most seemed too soft to me.

I've had some "curing" under water for about 5 years (made the rock,
moved while still curing, had fire in bedroom in new place...which
destroyed tank-- so the rocks sat soaking in several buckets for a
couple years.)

I've just recently started a new system..... it's a couple months old.
not much in the way of animal life... large brittle star, several
snails, couple mushrooms (only one species), couple tiny stars,
several hermits, opaeula shrimp, and a peppermint (had to get rid of
the aiptasia). I recently notices some rather large "scud-like"
shrimp... scared the begeezus out of me (light were out for several
hours, and once i repaired the circuit, i saw them...guess they
usually hide). When i put a piece in there, the mushrooms clamped up
for several days.... i think i took that piece out. I'll have to see
if i have any pieces in there now. if not, perhaps i'll try to put
some in again.

As for the salts... you might be able to use rock calcium chloride in
the mix. IIRC, it's added to cement mixes for winter pouring to help
them cure... so it might not hurt the cure.

I've been thinking about trying to find some of those packing peanuts
that dissolve to throw into the mix. Perhaps mini marshmallows would
work. ;)

--
be safe.
flip
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