Digital test readouts [Archive] - FishKeepingBanter.com

Boomer

June 19th 04, 07:56 PM

You will not find Ca meter. They do exist but not for seawater at all, they are called ISE
(Ion Selectivity Probe) probes that fit to a pH meter, price almost $300. As far as NH3,
NO2 and NO3, they are out but the ones that are aren't set to seawater. You would have to
make up your own stds., then they would work fine> The one that everyone asks about is the
ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from www.sealifesupply.com for $ 270.
Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as to how it can work
in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without std. There are not stds
for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest reagents, some how,
they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater. The PO4 (phosphate) and
Cooper, tests should work, based on what I know and have found out about Hand-Held
Spectrophotometers from HACH and La Motte

Here is part of the instructions for the La Motte, tek note the word "Seawater" is not
there

Sampling of Open Water Systems

Surface waters, such as those found in streams and rivers, are usually well mixed.
The sample should be taken downstream from any tributary, industrial or sewage
pollution source. For comparison purposes samples may be taken upstream and at
the source of the pollution before mixing.

In ponds, lakes, and reservoirs with restricted flow, it is necessary to collect a
number of samples in a cross section of the body of water, and where possible
composite samples should be made to ensure representative samples.

To collect samples from surface waters, select a suitable plastic container with a
tight fitting screw cap. Rinse the container several times with the sample to be
tested, then immerse the container below the surface until it is filled to
overflowing and replace the cap. If the sample is not to be tested immediately,
pour a small part of the sample out and reseal. This will allow for any expansion.
Any condition which might affect the sample should be listed.

Sub-surface sampling is required to obtain a vertical profile of streams, lakes,
ponds, and reservoirs at specific depths. This type of sampling requires more
sophisticated sampling equipment.

--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

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Please Join Our Growing Membership
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If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
"GamePlayer No. 1058" > wrote in message
...
: The only onces I've seen are digital PH meters, Im still wishing that
: amonia, nitrate and nitrite as well as calcium digital meters come on the
: market. If anyone sees these, Im definately interested as my hands are very
: shaky and trying to drop in exactly the right amount of drops from a
: chemical kit is a 75% win and 25% do over for me.
:
:
: "AAA" > wrote in message
: news:NvkAc.1808$5t2.1561@fed1read01...
: > I'm red/green color blind. Doesn't mean I can't see those colures, I
: > just see different ones than you do. I cannot do test strips. Are there
: > some kind of probes that show a digital display of the basic test items?
: > Or better yet can I get some thing I can hook up to my computer to log
: > the results? URL address please.
: >
: > Thanks in advance.
: >
: >
:
:

CheezWiz

June 21st 04, 02:26 PM

"The one that everyone asks about is the
ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from www.sealifesupply.com
for $ 270.
Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as to
how it can work
in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without std.
There are not stds
for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest reagents,
some how,
they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater."

What do you not understand? It is a very SIMPLE concept.????

CW

"Boomer" > wrote in message
...
> You will not find Ca meter. They do exist but not for seawater at all,
they are called ISE
> (Ion Selectivity Probe) probes that fit to a pH meter, price almost $300.
As far as NH3,
> NO2 and NO3, they are out but the ones that are aren't set to seawater.
You would have to
> make up your own stds., then they would work fine> The one that everyone
asks about is the
> ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from
www.sealifesupply.com for $ 270.
> Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as to
how it can work
> in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without std.
There are not stds
> for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest
reagents, some how,
> they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater. The PO4
(phosphate) and
> Cooper, tests should work, based on what I know and have found out about
Hand-Held
> Spectrophotometers from HACH and La Motte
>
> Here is part of the instructions for the La Motte, tek note the word
"Seawater" is not
> there
>
> Sampling of Open Water Systems
>
> Surface waters, such as those found in streams and rivers, are usually
well mixed.
> The sample should be taken downstream from any tributary, industrial or
sewage
> pollution source. For comparison purposes samples may be taken upstream
and at
> the source of the pollution before mixing.
>
> In ponds, lakes, and reservoirs with restricted flow, it is necessary to
collect a
> number of samples in a cross section of the body of water, and where
possible
> composite samples should be made to ensure representative samples.
>
> To collect samples from surface waters, select a suitable plastic
container with a
> tight fitting screw cap. Rinse the container several times with the sample
to be
> tested, then immerse the container below the surface until it is filled to
> overflowing and replace the cap. If the sample is not to be tested
immediately,
> pour a small part of the sample out and reseal. This will allow for any
expansion.
> Any condition which might affect the sample should be listed.
>
> Sub-surface sampling is required to obtain a vertical profile of streams,
lakes,
> ponds, and reservoirs at specific depths. This type of sampling requires
more
> sophisticated sampling equipment.
>
> --
> Boomer
>
> Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
> http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>
> Want to See More ?
> Please Join Our Growing Membership
> www.coralrealm.com
>
> If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
> "GamePlayer No. 1058" > wrote in message
> ...
> : The only onces I've seen are digital PH meters, Im still wishing that
> : amonia, nitrate and nitrite as well as calcium digital meters come on
the
> : market. If anyone sees these, Im definately interested as my hands are
very
> : shaky and trying to drop in exactly the right amount of drops from a
> : chemical kit is a 75% win and 25% do over for me.
> :
> :
> : "AAA" > wrote in message
> : news:NvkAc.1808$5t2.1561@fed1read01...
> : > I'm red/green color blind. Doesn't mean I can't see those colures, I
> : > just see different ones than you do. I cannot do test strips. Are
there
> : > some kind of probes that show a digital display of the basic test
items?
> : > Or better yet can I get some thing I can hook up to my computer to log
> : > the results? URL address please.
> : >
> : > Thanks in advance.
> : >
> : >
> :
> :
>
>

Boomer

June 21st 04, 04:21 PM

"What do you not understand? It is a very SIMPLE concept.????"

It is not me that doe not understand but you, so obviously you don't understand the SIMPLE
concept of spectrophotometer/colorimeter.. Many meters have inferences with seawater, as
does this meter, when measuring Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia and some other ions. You must
make up stds of a know NO3, NO2, NH3 solution, for seawater, to calibrate the meter with.
If you don't do so you will get an incorrect reading. The reagents sold with this meter
are SeaTest, which are std HACH reagents, off the self, relabeled, nothing fancy about
them. SeaTest kits and reagents are a joint adventure between HACH and Aquarium Systems.
Both HACH and La Motte make the same type of meter, so go ask them. Or is it you are from
SeaLife Supply trying to sell something ? So if you can explain it, why don't you do so ?
I would like nothing better.

--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

Want to See More ?
Please Join Our Growing Membership
www.coralrealm.com

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
"CheezWiz" > wrote in message ...
: "The one that everyone asks about is the
: ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from www.sealifesupply.com
: for $ 270.
: Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as to
: how it can work
: in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without std.
: There are not stds
: for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest reagents,
: some how,
: they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater."
:
: What do you not understand? It is a very SIMPLE concept.????
:
: CW
:
:
:
:
: "Boomer" > wrote in message
: ...
: > You will not find Ca meter. They do exist but not for seawater at all,
: they are called ISE
: > (Ion Selectivity Probe) probes that fit to a pH meter, price almost $300.
: As far as NH3,
: > NO2 and NO3, they are out but the ones that are aren't set to seawater.
: You would have to
: > make up your own stds., then they would work fine> The one that everyone
: asks about is the
: > ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from
: www.sealifesupply.com for $ 270.
: > Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as to
: how it can work
: > in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without std.
: There are not stds
: > for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest
: reagents, some how,
: > they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater. The PO4
: (phosphate) and
: > Cooper, tests should work, based on what I know and have found out about
: Hand-Held
: > Spectrophotometers from HACH and La Motte
: >
: > Here is part of the instructions for the La Motte, tek note the word
: "Seawater" is not
: > there
: >
: > Sampling of Open Water Systems
: >
: > Surface waters, such as those found in streams and rivers, are usually
: well mixed.
: > The sample should be taken downstream from any tributary, industrial or
: sewage
: > pollution source. For comparison purposes samples may be taken upstream
: and at
: > the source of the pollution before mixing.
: >
: > In ponds, lakes, and reservoirs with restricted flow, it is necessary to
: collect a
: > number of samples in a cross section of the body of water, and where
: possible
: > composite samples should be made to ensure representative samples.
: >
: > To collect samples from surface waters, select a suitable plastic
: container with a
: > tight fitting screw cap. Rinse the container several times with the sample
: to be
: > tested, then immerse the container below the surface until it is filled to
: > overflowing and replace the cap. If the sample is not to be tested
: immediately,
: > pour a small part of the sample out and reseal. This will allow for any
: expansion.
: > Any condition which might affect the sample should be listed.
: >
: > Sub-surface sampling is required to obtain a vertical profile of streams,
: lakes,
: > ponds, and reservoirs at specific depths. This type of sampling requires
: more
: > sophisticated sampling equipment.
: >
: > --
: > Boomer
: >
: > Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
: > http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
: >
: > Want to See More ?
: > Please Join Our Growing Membership
: > www.coralrealm.com
: >
: > If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
: > "GamePlayer No. 1058" > wrote in message
: > ...
: > : The only onces I've seen are digital PH meters, Im still wishing that
: > : amonia, nitrate and nitrite as well as calcium digital meters come on
: the
: > : market. If anyone sees these, Im definately interested as my hands are
: very
: > : shaky and trying to drop in exactly the right amount of drops from a
: > : chemical kit is a 75% win and 25% do over for me.
: > :
: > :
: > : "AAA" > wrote in message
: > : news:NvkAc.1808$5t2.1561@fed1read01...
: > : > I'm red/green color blind. Doesn't mean I can't see those colures, I
: > : > just see different ones than you do. I cannot do test strips. Are
: there
: > : > some kind of probes that show a digital display of the basic test
: items?
: > : > Or better yet can I get some thing I can hook up to my computer to log
: > : > the results? URL address please.
: > : >
: > : > Thanks in advance.
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
:

CheezWiz

June 22nd 04, 02:03 AM

Sorry but I have a hard time making any since of your posts.
Perhaps that is why they have not answered...

Since they are using standardized regents, it is just a matter of passing a
light through the developed test and measuring the amount of light that
passes.

Since Sea-Test, or any kits regent for that matter, will darken a given
quantity of seawater, a specified amount, for the concentration of a
measured ion. Then it is a simple matter to calibrate the device to read the
same measurement as would be judged by the eye...

Are you stating that seatest regents do not work in salt water?

That is the same thing that you are doing with your eye.....
If sea-test regents did not always produce the same results, they would have
to make custom color-chips for every batch of regents that went out the
door.

There is no magic involved with what they are doing.

CheezWiz

"Boomer" > wrote in message
...
> "What do you not understand? It is a very SIMPLE concept.????"
>
> It is not me that doe not understand but you, so obviously you don't
understand the SIMPLE
> concept of spectrophotometer/colorimeter.. Many meters have inferences
with seawater, as
> does this meter, when measuring Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia and some other
ions. You must
> make up stds of a know NO3, NO2, NH3 solution, for seawater, to calibrate
the meter with.
> If you don't do so you will get an incorrect reading. The reagents sold
with this meter
> are SeaTest, which are std HACH reagents, off the self, relabeled, nothing
fancy about
> them. SeaTest kits and reagents are a joint adventure between HACH and
Aquarium Systems.
> Both HACH and La Motte make the same type of meter, so go ask them. Or is
it you are from
> SeaLife Supply trying to sell something ? So if you can explain it, why
don't you do so ?
> I would like nothing better.
>
>
> --
> Boomer
>
> Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
> http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>
> Want to See More ?
> Please Join Our Growing Membership
> www.coralrealm.com
>
> If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
> "CheezWiz" > wrote in message
...
> : "The one that everyone asks about is the
> : ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from
www.sealifesupply.com
> : for $ 270.
> : Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as
to
> : how it can work
> : in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without std.
> : There are not stds
> : for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest
reagents,
> : some how,
> : they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater."
> :
> : What do you not understand? It is a very SIMPLE concept.????
> :
> : CW
> :
> :
> :
> :
> : "Boomer" > wrote in message
> : ...
> : > You will not find Ca meter. They do exist but not for seawater at all,
> : they are called ISE
> : > (Ion Selectivity Probe) probes that fit to a pH meter, price almost
$300.
> : As far as NH3,
> : > NO2 and NO3, they are out but the ones that are aren't set to
seawater.
> : You would have to
> : > make up your own stds., then they would work fine> The one that
everyone
> : asks about is the
> : > ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from
> : www.sealifesupply.com for $ 270.
> : > Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as
to
> : how it can work
> : > in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without
std.
> : There are not stds
> : > for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest
> : reagents, some how,
> : > they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater. The
PO4
> : (phosphate) and
> : > Cooper, tests should work, based on what I know and have found out
about
> : Hand-Held
> : > Spectrophotometers from HACH and La Motte
> : >
> : > Here is part of the instructions for the La Motte, tek note the word
> : "Seawater" is not
> : > there
> : >
> : > Sampling of Open Water Systems
> : >
> : > Surface waters, such as those found in streams and rivers, are usually
> : well mixed.
> : > The sample should be taken downstream from any tributary, industrial
or
> : sewage
> : > pollution source. For comparison purposes samples may be taken
upstream
> : and at
> : > the source of the pollution before mixing.
> : >
> : > In ponds, lakes, and reservoirs with restricted flow, it is necessary
to
> : collect a
> : > number of samples in a cross section of the body of water, and where
> : possible
> : > composite samples should be made to ensure representative samples.
> : >
> : > To collect samples from surface waters, select a suitable plastic
> : container with a
> : > tight fitting screw cap. Rinse the container several times with the
sample
> : to be
> : > tested, then immerse the container below the surface until it is
filled to
> : > overflowing and replace the cap. If the sample is not to be tested
> : immediately,
> : > pour a small part of the sample out and reseal. This will allow for
any
> : expansion.
> : > Any condition which might affect the sample should be listed.
> : >
> : > Sub-surface sampling is required to obtain a vertical profile of
streams,
> : lakes,
> : > ponds, and reservoirs at specific depths. This type of sampling
requires
> : more
> : > sophisticated sampling equipment.
> : >
> : > --
> : > Boomer
> : >
> : > Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
> : > http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
> : >
> : > Want to See More ?
> : > Please Join Our Growing Membership
> : > www.coralrealm.com
> : >
> : > If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
> : > "GamePlayer No. 1058" > wrote in message
> : > ...
> : > : The only onces I've seen are digital PH meters, Im still wishing
that
> : > : amonia, nitrate and nitrite as well as calcium digital meters come
on
> : the
> : > : market. If anyone sees these, Im definately interested as my hands
are
> : very
> : > : shaky and trying to drop in exactly the right amount of drops from a
> : > : chemical kit is a 75% win and 25% do over for me.
> : > :
> : > :
> : > : "AAA" > wrote in message
> : > : news:NvkAc.1808$5t2.1561@fed1read01...
> : > : > I'm red/green color blind. Doesn't mean I can't see those colures,
I
> : > : > just see different ones than you do. I cannot do test strips. Are
> : there
> : > : > some kind of probes that show a digital display of the basic test
> : items?
> : > : > Or better yet can I get some thing I can hook up to my computer to
log
> : > : > the results? URL address please.
> : > : >
> : > : > Thanks in advance.
> : > : >
> : > : >
> : > :
> : > :
> : >
> : >
> :
> :
>
>

CheezWiz

June 22nd 04, 03:03 AM

I would suggest that you read the LaMotte Smart Colorimeter user manual
here:

http://www.lamotte.com/pages/common/pdf/manuals/smrtinst.pdf

It states over and over that the tests are for saline water. (salt water
would fit that definition wouldn't it?)

Look at page 57, specifically states that it can be used in Sal****er
Aquariums!

"Boomer" > wrote in message
...
> You will not find Ca meter. They do exist but not for seawater at all,
they are called ISE
> (Ion Selectivity Probe) probes that fit to a pH meter, price almost $300.
As far as NH3,
> NO2 and NO3, they are out but the ones that are aren't set to seawater.
You would have to
> make up your own stds., then they would work fine> The one that everyone
asks about is the
> ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from
www.sealifesupply.com for $ 270.
> Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as to
how it can work
> in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without std.
There are not stds
> for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest
reagents, some how,
> they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater. The PO4
(phosphate) and
> Cooper, tests should work, based on what I know and have found out about
Hand-Held
> Spectrophotometers from HACH and La Motte
>
> Here is part of the instructions for the La Motte, tek note the word
"Seawater" is not
> there
>
> Sampling of Open Water Systems
>
> Surface waters, such as those found in streams and rivers, are usually
well mixed.
> The sample should be taken downstream from any tributary, industrial or
sewage
> pollution source. For comparison purposes samples may be taken upstream
and at
> the source of the pollution before mixing.
>
> In ponds, lakes, and reservoirs with restricted flow, it is necessary to
collect a
> number of samples in a cross section of the body of water, and where
possible
> composite samples should be made to ensure representative samples.
>
> To collect samples from surface waters, select a suitable plastic
container with a
> tight fitting screw cap. Rinse the container several times with the sample
to be
> tested, then immerse the container below the surface until it is filled to
> overflowing and replace the cap. If the sample is not to be tested
immediately,
> pour a small part of the sample out and reseal. This will allow for any
expansion.
> Any condition which might affect the sample should be listed.
>
> Sub-surface sampling is required to obtain a vertical profile of streams,
lakes,
> ponds, and reservoirs at specific depths. This type of sampling requires
more
> sophisticated sampling equipment.
>
> --
> Boomer
>
> Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
> http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>
> Want to See More ?
> Please Join Our Growing Membership
> www.coralrealm.com
>
> If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
> "GamePlayer No. 1058" > wrote in message
> ...
> : The only onces I've seen are digital PH meters, Im still wishing that
> : amonia, nitrate and nitrite as well as calcium digital meters come on
the
> : market. If anyone sees these, Im definately interested as my hands are
very
> : shaky and trying to drop in exactly the right amount of drops from a
> : chemical kit is a 75% win and 25% do over for me.
> :
> :
> : "AAA" > wrote in message
> : news:NvkAc.1808$5t2.1561@fed1read01...
> : > I'm red/green color blind. Doesn't mean I can't see those colures, I
> : > just see different ones than you do. I cannot do test strips. Are
there
> : > some kind of probes that show a digital display of the basic test
items?
> : > Or better yet can I get some thing I can hook up to my computer to log
> : > the results? URL address please.
> : >
> : > Thanks in advance.
> : >
> : >
> :
> :
>
>

Boomer

June 22nd 04, 03:34 AM

: Since they are using standardized regents, it is just a matter of passing a
: light through the developed test and measuring the amount of light that
: passes.

No it not just a matter. Any of these units have ion inferences. They are given in the
owners manuals. PO4 and Cooper are two that don't have any inference based on the levels
we are at. For example, if you try to measure O2 with these meters, which you can do but
only if the NO2 is not above 10 mg / l, which it should be nowhere near anyway

:
: Since Sea-Test, or any kits regent for that matter, will darken a given
: quantity of seawater, a specified amount, for the concentration of a
: measured ion.

That is correct and you need to know what that amount is. You must take a sample of
seawater at a know salinity, with no NO3 and spike that sample with a known concentration
of NO3 and set the meter or calibrate the meter to that known sample.Then and only then
will you get the correct readings. Both HACH and La Motte explain that in their manuals,
or if you will, a short phone call. I have made two in regards to these types of meter.
They all work the same , there is nothing magic about this meter, that makes it work in
seawater, which was my point. You will get the same answer from Hanna. You must make up
your own stds for seawater. Seawater stds are not something they are interested in doing.
You would also have to check the meter at other salinities, with know concentrations of
NO3, NO2, etc..

Then it is a simple matter to calibrate the device to read the
: same measurement as would be judged by the eye...
:
: Are you stating that seatest regents do not work in salt water?

No, not at all. Some seem to get the idea that because they are SeaTest reagents, quite
well know for the use in this hobby, that some how that makes them work Ok. My point was
there is nothing magic about the reagents . The meter will not give proper readings in
seawater for these ions. The SeaTest reagents are std HACH reagents for seawater, as they
do make kits for seawater. Usually the reagent is buffered for seawater. That is why their
meter says for sal****er only. The reagents are those commonly used for the HACH " Color
Cube" test kits. Now, if one wants to assume, that these reagents would work and give the
proper readings, wouldn't you think HACH and La Motte would know that, as sell and market
them for "seawater" application ? Even HACH and La Motte will tell you or list in their
products catalogs, seawater but a phone call tells you other wise. "Yes., they will work
but you have to make up your own stds.Call a Lab Tech. at HACH and ask. The # is toll
free.

www.hach.com

I would like nothing better than to hear from anyone that these meters, as is, would work,
believe me. I just went through this on RC, with a chemical engineer, with a HACH DR-2000
/ 4000, the big grand-daddy of them all. You can even go to their website and down load
the instructions and Nitrate for seawater is in their.

--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

Want to See More ?
Please Join Our Growing Membership
www.coralrealm.com

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up

Boomer

June 22nd 04, 04:32 AM

Yah, know what the hell it says. I take it your forgot about the other thread hear on the
same issue, where I explained it to you ad Cap before. If you go to HACH and look at their
seawater aquaculture kit there is in one in their for CO2. La Motte also makes one. CO2
kits don't can't work in seawater...period, yet there it is. HACH has run the same thing
with their spectro's, in sal****er. THEY DO WORK but only if you make up your own stds to
set them to. Call a flippin lab tech or engineer that designs and makes them and ask them.
I HAVE. Once to La Motte and twice to HACH, in the last couple of weeks and always the
same answer. "Yes, if you have a std. to calibrate them to. We don't have any, you must
make-up your own...." All these
meters work the same. It is not that the La Mottes' or Hanna's meter works in seawater
and
the HACH doesn't.

I'll leave you with the same option I did on the last thread for you and Cap. Call them,
ask them. Make sure you talk to a tech that know what is going on. Bring up what I
mentioned. They may have to up you to someone that has a better understanding of the
meter. I don't need to, as I said I already did for for a guy on RC. And long ago, when
HACH and La Motte came out with these types of meters. I wanted one also. I wanted it to
work and was told NO !!

--
Boomer

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If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
"CheezWiz" > wrote in message ...
:I would suggest that you read the LaMotte Smart Colorimeter user manual
: here:
:
: http://www.lamotte.com/pages/common/pdf/manuals/smrtinst.pdf
:
: It states over and over that the tests are for saline water. (salt water
: would fit that definition wouldn't it?)
:
: Look at page 57, specifically states that it can be used in Sal****er
: Aquariums!
:
:
: "Boomer" > wrote in message
: ...
: > You will not find Ca meter. They do exist but not for seawater at all,
: they are called ISE
: > (Ion Selectivity Probe) probes that fit to a pH meter, price almost $300.
: As far as NH3,
: > NO2 and NO3, they are out but the ones that are aren't set to seawater.
: You would have to
: > make up your own stds., then they would work fine> The one that everyone
: asks about is the
: > ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from
: www.sealifesupply.com for $ 270.
: > Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as to
: how it can work
: > in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without std.
: There are not stds
: > for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest
: reagents, some how,
: > they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater. The PO4
: (phosphate) and
: > Cooper, tests should work, based on what I know and have found out about
: Hand-Held
: > Spectrophotometers from HACH and La Motte
: >
: > Here is part of the instructions for the La Motte, tek note the word
: "Seawater" is not
: > there
: >
: > Sampling of Open Water Systems
: >
: > Surface waters, such as those found in streams and rivers, are usually
: well mixed.
: > The sample should be taken downstream from any tributary, industrial or
: sewage
: > pollution source. For comparison purposes samples may be taken upstream
: and at
: > the source of the pollution before mixing.
: >
: > In ponds, lakes, and reservoirs with restricted flow, it is necessary to
: collect a
: > number of samples in a cross section of the body of water, and where
: possible
: > composite samples should be made to ensure representative samples.
: >
: > To collect samples from surface waters, select a suitable plastic
: container with a
: > tight fitting screw cap. Rinse the container several times with the sample
: to be
: > tested, then immerse the container below the surface until it is filled to
: > overflowing and replace the cap. If the sample is not to be tested
: immediately,
: > pour a small part of the sample out and reseal. This will allow for any
: expansion.
: > Any condition which might affect the sample should be listed.
: >
: > Sub-surface sampling is required to obtain a vertical profile of streams,
: lakes,
: > ponds, and reservoirs at specific depths. This type of sampling requires
: more
: > sophisticated sampling equipment.
: >
: > --
: > Boomer
: >
: > Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
: > http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
: >
: > Want to See More ?
: > Please Join Our Growing Membership
: > www.coralrealm.com
: >
: > If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
: > "GamePlayer No. 1058" > wrote in message
: > ...
: > : The only onces I've seen are digital PH meters, Im still wishing that
: > : amonia, nitrate and nitrite as well as calcium digital meters come on
: the
: > : market. If anyone sees these, Im definately interested as my hands are
: very
: > : shaky and trying to drop in exactly the right amount of drops from a
: > : chemical kit is a 75% win and 25% do over for me.
: > :
: > :
: > : "AAA" > wrote in message
: > : news:NvkAc.1808$5t2.1561@fed1read01...
: > : > I'm red/green color blind. Doesn't mean I can't see those colures, I
: > : > just see different ones than you do. I cannot do test strips. Are
: there
: > : > some kind of probes that show a digital display of the basic test
: items?
: > : > Or better yet can I get some thing I can hook up to my computer to log
: > : > the results? URL address please.
: > : >
: > : > Thanks in advance.
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
:

CheezWiz

June 22nd 04, 04:34 AM

All the meter is doing, is measuring how dark the sample gets.
They calibrate it to a vile of clear seawater.

Why is it that according to you, the human eye can determine the color
shade, but an electronic sensor cannot?
The Chem Tester only reports the 5 or so possible results from each of the
test kits. Those kits assume a standard sal****er tank at about 1.024 sal
and approx 75 degrees... Given those two conditions, the regents will yield
the same "color range" each and every time. All they have to do to calibrate
this tester is add the appropriate ion concentrations to a sample of sea
water at the above stats, and then adjust the meter so it reports what they
get if they hold it up to the color chip. It is a very simple concept and I
think you are over complicating the physics behind it. As a liquid gets
darker in color, it passes less light. All they have to do is make sure that
the tester matches up to the sea-test results.. EASY!

"Boomer" > wrote in message
...
> : Since they are using standardized regents, it is just a matter of
passing a
> : light through the developed test and measuring the amount of light that
> : passes.
>
> No it not just a matter. Any of these units have ion inferences. They are
given in the
> owners manuals. PO4 and Cooper are two that don't have any inference based
on the levels
> we are at. For example, if you try to measure O2 with these meters, which
you can do but
> only if the NO2 is not above 10 mg / l, which it should be nowhere near
anyway
>
> :
> : Since Sea-Test, or any kits regent for that matter, will darken a given
> : quantity of seawater, a specified amount, for the concentration of a
> : measured ion.
>
>
> That is correct and you need to know what that amount is. You must take a
sample of
> seawater at a know salinity, with no NO3 and spike that sample with a
known concentration
> of NO3 and set the meter or calibrate the meter to that known sample.Then
and only then
> will you get the correct readings. Both HACH and La Motte explain that in
their manuals,
> or if you will, a short phone call. I have made two in regards to these
types of meter.
> They all work the same , there is nothing magic about this meter, that
makes it work in
> seawater, which was my point. You will get the same answer from Hanna. You
must make up
> your own stds for seawater. Seawater stds are not something they are
interested in doing.
> You would also have to check the meter at other salinities, with know
concentrations of
> NO3, NO2, etc..
>
>
> Then it is a simple matter to calibrate the device to read the
> : same measurement as would be judged by the eye...
> :
> : Are you stating that seatest regents do not work in salt water?
>
>
>
> No, not at all. Some seem to get the idea that because they are SeaTest
reagents, quite
> well know for the use in this hobby, that some how that makes them work
Ok. My point was
> there is nothing magic about the reagents . The meter will not give proper
readings in
> seawater for these ions. The SeaTest reagents are std HACH reagents for
seawater, as they
> do make kits for seawater. Usually the reagent is buffered for seawater.
That is why their
> meter says for sal****er only. The reagents are those commonly used for
the HACH " Color
> Cube" test kits. Now, if one wants to assume, that these reagents would
work and give the
> proper readings, wouldn't you think HACH and La Motte would know that, as
sell and market
> them for "seawater" application ? Even HACH and La Motte will tell you or
list in their
> products catalogs, seawater but a phone call tells you other wise. "Yes.,
they will work
> but you have to make up your own stds.Call a Lab Tech. at HACH and ask.
The # is toll
> free.
>
> www.hach.com
>
> I would like nothing better than to hear from anyone that these meters, as
is, would work,
> believe me. I just went through this on RC, with a chemical engineer, with
a HACH DR-2000
> / 4000, the big grand-daddy of them all. You can even go to their website
and down load
> the instructions and Nitrate for seawater is in their.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Boomer
>
> Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
> http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>
> Want to See More ?
> Please Join Our Growing Membership
> www.coralrealm.com
>
> If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
>
>

CheezWiz

June 22nd 04, 04:46 AM

With the LaMotte units, you calibrate the unit to the sample BEFORE adding
regents.

Are you trying to say that the color results of the test do not correspond
to real results when used in sea water?

Are you trying to say that sea water adsorbs light?

I sure am having a hard time understanding what you are trying to explain!

A color is a color.....

Sure, test kits produce different colors between Salt Water and Fresh Water,
that is why kits that measure both come with two color charts. The chem
tester is calibrated to the colors produced by SEATEST kits ONLY.

The argument that you seem to be making is that electronic devices cannot
"see" the color of a regent in sea water. If so, that makes no sense...

"Boomer" > wrote in message
...
> Yah, know what the hell it says. I take it your forgot about the other
thread hear on the
> same issue, where I explained it to you ad Cap before. If you go to HACH
and look at their
> seawater aquaculture kit there is in one in their for CO2. La Motte also
makes one. CO2
> kits don't can't work in seawater...period, yet there it is. HACH has run
the same thing
> with their spectro's, in sal****er. THEY DO WORK but only if you make up
your own stds to
> set them to. Call a flippin lab tech or engineer that designs and makes
them and ask them.
> I HAVE. Once to La Motte and twice to HACH, in the last couple of weeks
and always the
> same answer. "Yes, if you have a std. to calibrate them to. We don't have
any, you must
> make-up your own...." All these
> meters work the same. It is not that the La Mottes' or Hanna's meter works
in seawater
> and
> the HACH doesn't.
>
> I'll leave you with the same option I did on the last thread for you and
Cap. Call them,
> ask them. Make sure you talk to a tech that know what is going on. Bring
up what I
> mentioned. They may have to up you to someone that has a better
understanding of the
> meter. I don't need to, as I said I already did for for a guy on RC. And
long ago, when
> HACH and La Motte came out with these types of meters. I wanted one also.
I wanted it to
> work and was told NO !!
>
> --
> Boomer
>
> Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
> http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>
> Want to See More ?
> Please Join Our Growing Membership
> www.coralrealm.com
>
> If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
> "CheezWiz" > wrote in message
...
> :I would suggest that you read the LaMotte Smart Colorimeter user manual
> : here:
> :
> : http://www.lamotte.com/pages/common/pdf/manuals/smrtinst.pdf
> :
> : It states over and over that the tests are for saline water. (salt water
> : would fit that definition wouldn't it?)
> :
> : Look at page 57, specifically states that it can be used in Sal****er
> : Aquariums!
> :
> :
> : "Boomer" > wrote in message
> : ...
> : > You will not find Ca meter. They do exist but not for seawater at all,
> : they are called ISE
> : > (Ion Selectivity Probe) probes that fit to a pH meter, price almost
$300.
> : As far as NH3,
> : > NO2 and NO3, they are out but the ones that are aren't set to
seawater.
> : You would have to
> : > make up your own stds., then they would work fine> The one that
everyone
> : asks about is the
> : > ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from
> : www.sealifesupply.com for $ 270.
> : > Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as
to
> : how it can work
> : > in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without
std.
> : There are not stds
> : > for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest
> : reagents, some how,
> : > they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater. The
PO4
> : (phosphate) and
> : > Cooper, tests should work, based on what I know and have found out
about
> : Hand-Held
> : > Spectrophotometers from HACH and La Motte
> : >
> : > Here is part of the instructions for the La Motte, tek note the word
> : "Seawater" is not
> : > there
> : >
> : > Sampling of Open Water Systems
> : >
> : > Surface waters, such as those found in streams and rivers, are usually
> : well mixed.
> : > The sample should be taken downstream from any tributary, industrial
or
> : sewage
> : > pollution source. For comparison purposes samples may be taken
upstream
> : and at
> : > the source of the pollution before mixing.
> : >
> : > In ponds, lakes, and reservoirs with restricted flow, it is necessary
to
> : collect a
> : > number of samples in a cross section of the body of water, and where
> : possible
> : > composite samples should be made to ensure representative samples.
> : >
> : > To collect samples from surface waters, select a suitable plastic
> : container with a
> : > tight fitting screw cap. Rinse the container several times with the
sample
> : to be
> : > tested, then immerse the container below the surface until it is
filled to
> : > overflowing and replace the cap. If the sample is not to be tested
> : immediately,
> : > pour a small part of the sample out and reseal. This will allow for
any
> : expansion.
> : > Any condition which might affect the sample should be listed.
> : >
> : > Sub-surface sampling is required to obtain a vertical profile of
streams,
> : lakes,
> : > ponds, and reservoirs at specific depths. This type of sampling
requires
> : more
> : > sophisticated sampling equipment.
> : >
> : > --
> : > Boomer
> : >
> : > Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
> : > http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
> : >
> : > Want to See More ?
> : > Please Join Our Growing Membership
> : > www.coralrealm.com
> : >
> : > If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
> : > "GamePlayer No. 1058" > wrote in message
> : > ...
> : > : The only onces I've seen are digital PH meters, Im still wishing
that
> : > : amonia, nitrate and nitrite as well as calcium digital meters come
on
> : the
> : > : market. If anyone sees these, Im definately interested as my hands
are
> : very
> : > : shaky and trying to drop in exactly the right amount of drops from a
> : > : chemical kit is a 75% win and 25% do over for me.
> : > :
> : > :
> : > : "AAA" > wrote in message
> : > : news:NvkAc.1808$5t2.1561@fed1read01...
> : > : > I'm red/green color blind. Doesn't mean I can't see those colures,
I
> : > : > just see different ones than you do. I cannot do test strips. Are
> : there
> : > : > some kind of probes that show a digital display of the basic test
> : items?
> : > : > Or better yet can I get some thing I can hook up to my computer to
log
> : > : > the results? URL address please.
> : > : >
> : > : > Thanks in advance.
> : > : >
> : > : >
> : > :
> : > :
> : >
> : >
> :
> :
>
>

Boomer

June 22nd 04, 06:13 AM

"All they have to do to calibrate
this tester is add the appropriate ion concentrations to a sample of sea
water at the above stats, and then adjust the meter so it reports what they
get if they hold it up to the color chip. "

What, you talk about me sounding confusing. You are just not paying attention at all to
what I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG. What are you saying here, they are adding a know
concentration, of say 1 mg / l NO3, to the sample and then calibrating/adjusting the meter
in house..correct. Isn't that what I have been saying or have you been lost ? So they have
made up their own stds correct, Medusa. In house calibrate the meter to a known std., ship
it out for you to buy.. correct And what did I say, that HACH and LaMotte don't for that
for their meters. And does Medusa make these std available, so one can recalibrate it. If
that is what they are doing then that is fine. But many reefers run their Salinity at
1.026 and the temps around 82 F, which requires a different calibration. However, maybe we
can say that is close enough. I don't see them putting out any data to support anything.
As I said before and you are not listening, Ions in seawater interfere with these meters.
One, namely Chloride, causes interferences with these meter if it is above 100 mg / l. The
meters read to low. Now what is seawater, there pal, 19,000 mg / l. And is the reasons
behind calibrating the meter to seawater with a know solution std. !!!!! Do I need to
draw you a map ?

From HACH owners manual. "Water Analysis Handbook, page 418, Nitrate, MR (0 to 4,5 mg / l)
for the HR-2000. (a multi parameter spectrophotometer)

"The test may be used in high chloride levels and **seawater**, but the calibration** must
be** preformed using stds spiked to the ***same chloride concentration***"

Most reefers run their tanks at 1.025 =35 ptt, which is a correct value =35 ppt @ 82 F
and not 1.024 @ 75 F. 1.024 @ normal tank temps of 82 F, corrected, is = 32.3 ppt. And
that is just the salinity shift affecting the meter.

WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING.....correct

"Are you trying to say that sea water adsorbs light?"

All water absorbs light, are you saying it doesn't, since you want to get picky. What
about light refraction, which is quite different in seawater than freshwater.

"The argument that you seem to be making is that electronic devices cannot
"see" the color of a regent in sea water"

I never said such a thing so quite trying to twist things around. I said the meter needs
to be calibrated to seawater, with at known ion concentration, of say NO3, which you JUST
agreed to.......correct

"EASY!"

Yup, I sse that..... you are still confused.

Since you seem so confused you may want to go call HACH as suggested or La Motte. what,
are you afraid to. ? I'm not afraid to hear the results you get......are you ? Hey, it is
TOLL FREE
--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

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Please Join Our Growing Membership
www.coralrealm.com

CheezWiz

June 22nd 04, 02:11 PM

I just do not believe that such a small shift in salinity will make such a
large shift in readings.
If that were the case, then no chemical test would work for the eye either.
The colors would be so different between 1.024 and 1.026 that the color
charts would be useless!
We are talking about a very small amount of water that for a tester like
this, such a small amount will appear clear when regents are not present.
Sure sea water interferes with light transmission, in large volumes.

Until you are willing to back up your arguments with facts or figures, I
just think that you should avoid saying that it CANNOT work. All you say is
that you call techs... big deal... Order one of the Medusa units and do a
write-up on it. Prove that it does not work....

"Boomer" > wrote in message
...
> "All they have to do to calibrate
> this tester is add the appropriate ion concentrations to a sample of sea
> water at the above stats, and then adjust the meter so it reports what
they
> get if they hold it up to the color chip. "
>
> What, you talk about me sounding confusing. You are just not paying
attention at all to
> what I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG. What are you saying here, they are
adding a know
> concentration, of say 1 mg / l NO3, to the sample and then
calibrating/adjusting the meter
> in house..correct. Isn't that what I have been saying or have you been
lost ? So they have
> made up their own stds correct, Medusa. In house calibrate the meter to a
known std., ship
> it out for you to buy.. correct And what did I say, that HACH and LaMotte
don't for that
> for their meters. And does Medusa make these std available, so one can
recalibrate it. If
> that is what they are doing then that is fine. But many reefers run their
Salinity at
> 1.026 and the temps around 82 F, which requires a different calibration.
However, maybe we
> can say that is close enough. I don't see them putting out any data to
support anything.
> As I said before and you are not listening, Ions in seawater interfere
with these meters.
> One, namely Chloride, causes interferences with these meter if it is above
100 mg / l. The
> meters read to low. Now what is seawater, there pal, 19,000 mg / l. And
is the reasons
> behind calibrating the meter to seawater with a know solution std. !!!!!
Do I need to
> draw you a map ?
>
> From HACH owners manual. "Water Analysis Handbook, page 418, Nitrate, MR
(0 to 4,5 mg / l)
> for the HR-2000. (a multi parameter spectrophotometer)
>
> "The test may be used in high chloride levels and **seawater**, but the
calibration** must
> be** preformed using stds spiked to the ***same chloride concentration***"
>
> Most reefers run their tanks at 1.025 =35 ptt, which is a correct value
=35 ppt @ 82 F
> and not 1.024 @ 75 F. 1.024 @ normal tank temps of 82 F, corrected, is =
32.3 ppt. And
> that is just the salinity shift affecting the meter.
>
>
> WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING.....correct
>
>
> "Are you trying to say that sea water adsorbs light?"
>
> All water absorbs light, are you saying it doesn't, since you want to get
picky. What
> about light refraction, which is quite different in seawater than
freshwater.
>
> "The argument that you seem to be making is that electronic devices cannot
> "see" the color of a regent in sea water"
>
> I never said such a thing so quite trying to twist things around. I said
the meter needs
> to be calibrated to seawater, with at known ion concentration, of say NO3,
which you JUST
> agreed to.......correct
>
> "EASY!"
>
> Yup, I sse that..... you are still confused.
>
>
> Since you seem so confused you may want to go call HACH as suggested or
La Motte. what,
> are you afraid to. ? I'm not afraid to hear the results you get......are
you ? Hey, it is
> TOLL FREE
> --
> Boomer
>
> Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
> http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>
> Want to See More ?
> Please Join Our Growing Membership
> www.coralrealm.com
>
>

david

June 22nd 04, 03:15 PM

"CheezWiz" > wrote in message
...
> I just do not believe that such a small shift in salinity will make such a
> large shift in readings.
> If that were the case, then no chemical test would work for the eye
either.
> The colors would be so different between 1.024 and 1.026 that the color
> charts would be useless!
> We are talking about a very small amount of water that for a tester like
> this, such a small amount will appear clear when regents are not present.
> Sure sea water interferes with light transmission, in large volumes.
>
> Until you are willing to back up your arguments with facts or figures, I
> just think that you should avoid saying that it CANNOT work. All you say
is
> that you call techs... big deal... Order one of the Medusa units and do a
> write-up on it. Prove that it does not work....
>

are you sure you dont have an intrest in this product. People dont tend to
get so
upset unless they have been insulted.

Boomer

June 22nd 04, 05:18 PM

I asked him but no answer. Sound like a sales pitch form a person at SeaLife. No answer,
so try to dazzle and confuse one with words.

"Until you are willing to back up your arguments with facts or figures"

And Cheeze

the one that needs to back things up is not me but Sea Life. I am not selling the unit
they are/you are. I have seen way to many hobbyists get ripped off. And I never said
cannot work, that it will work, if it is calibrate correctly.

"Order one of the Medusa units "

That is just my point. Buy one for the tune of $270 trust us. What makes you think that a
std SeaTest kit is not good enough for our needs

Like I said before, I would like nothing better than to have this unit be accurate. All
they would have to do is have it tested against an ICP. And if it measured up think of the
sales pitch they could give. I would help promote it.

"The colors would be so different between 1.024 and 1.026 that the color
charts would be useless!"

You just don't get it do you. At some point the meter will have to be RECALIBRATED like
many instruments of this type or others. It makes about as much sense as buying a pH meter
and having them do an in house calibration for seawater and then having you buy one, with
no means of RECALIBRATING it. Makes no sense at all !

"All you say is
that you call techs"

That is correct, so what are you afraid of ?

Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

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Please Join Our Growing Membership
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If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
"david" > wrote in message ...
:
: "CheezWiz" > wrote in message
: ...
: > I just do not believe that such a small shift in salinity will make such a
: > large shift in readings.
: > If that were the case, then no chemical test would work for the eye
: either.
: > The colors would be so different between 1.024 and 1.026 that the color
: > charts would be useless!
: > We are talking about a very small amount of water that for a tester like
: > this, such a small amount will appear clear when regents are not present.
: > Sure sea water interferes with light transmission, in large volumes.
: >
: > Until you are willing to back up your arguments with facts or figures, I
: > just think that you should avoid saying that it CANNOT work. All you say
: is
: > that you call techs... big deal... Order one of the Medusa units and do a
: > write-up on it. Prove that it does not work....
: >
:
: are you sure you dont have an intrest in this product. People dont tend to
: get so
: upset unless they have been insulted.
:
:

CheezWiz

June 23rd 04, 01:37 AM

> I asked him but no answer. Sound like a sales pitch form a person at
SeaLife. No answer,
> so try to dazzle and confuse one with words.

I think it is quite petty to accuse someone who disagrees with your OPINION
of a product as being a company plant. Therefore I feel no need to answer.

> the one that needs to back things up is not me but Sea Life. I am not
selling the unit
> they are/you are. I have seen way to many hobbyists get ripped off. And I
never said
> cannot work, that it will work, if it is calibrate correctly.

A Quote from you:
"The one that everyone asks about is the
ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from www.sealifesupply.com
for $ 270.
Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as to
how it can work
in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without std.
There are not stds
for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest reagents,
some how,
they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater."

I think you are stating that it does not work. That is the way I read it!
I do not have the burden of proof here YOU DO. You stated that it cannot
work. I simply said that the concept behind it is easy enough to understand.

MY OPINION:
I believe that if I wanted to make a detector that could determine the
proper shade of a SeaTest result on an average properly kept aquarists
water, I could. Using an empty vile as the reference you so desperately
shout about. All I would need to do is pass light through the sample and
measure the voltage at the detector, say a photo-transistor. Since I would
not be using a SeaTest regent in fresh water, brackish water, or other out
of range salinity, I believe that calibrating the unit to an empty vile
would suffice... That is my OPINION....
END OPINION:

I am not making an argument that this or any other unit does or does not
work, Just simply that because YOU say it does not, is not good enough for
me.

> Like I said before, I would like nothing better than to have this unit be
accurate. All
> they would have to do is have it tested against an ICP. And if it measured
up think of the
> sales pitch they could give. I would help promote it.

All it has to do is produce the same reading you would get by holding the
sample up to a SeaTest color chip! That is all it claims to do!

> You just don't get it do you. At some point the meter will have to be
RECALIBRATED like
> many instruments of this type or others. It makes about as much sense as
buying a pH meter
> and having them do an in house calibration for seawater and then having
you buy one, with
> no means of RECALIBRATING it. Makes no sense at all !

Instructions for recalibration are on their web site!

CW

"Boomer" > wrote in message
...
> I asked him but no answer. Sound like a sales pitch form a person at
SeaLife. No answer,
> so try to dazzle and confuse one with words.
>
>
> "Until you are willing to back up your arguments with facts or figures"
>
>
> And Cheeze
>
> the one that needs to back things up is not me but Sea Life. I am not
selling the unit
> they are/you are. I have seen way to many hobbyists get ripped off. And I
never said
> cannot work, that it will work, if it is calibrate correctly.
>
> "Order one of the Medusa units "
>
> That is just my point. Buy one for the tune of $270 trust us. What makes
you think that a
> std SeaTest kit is not good enough for our needs
>
> Like I said before, I would like nothing better than to have this unit be
accurate. All
> they would have to do is have it tested against an ICP. And if it measured
up think of the
> sales pitch they could give. I would help promote it.
>
>
> "The colors would be so different between 1.024 and 1.026 that the color
> charts would be useless!"
>
> You just don't get it do you. At some point the meter will have to be
RECALIBRATED like
> many instruments of this type or others. It makes about as much sense as
buying a pH meter
> and having them do an in house calibration for seawater and then having
you buy one, with
> no means of RECALIBRATING it. Makes no sense at all !
>
> "All you say is
> that you call techs"
>
> That is correct, so what are you afraid of ?
>
> Boomer
>
> Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
> http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
>
> Want to See More ?
> Please Join Our Growing Membership
> www.coralrealm.com
>
> If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
> "david" > wrote in message
...
> :
> : "CheezWiz" > wrote in message
> : ...
> : > I just do not believe that such a small shift in salinity will make
such a
> : > large shift in readings.
> : > If that were the case, then no chemical test would work for the eye
> : either.
> : > The colors would be so different between 1.024 and 1.026 that the
color
> : > charts would be useless!
> : > We are talking about a very small amount of water that for a tester
like
> : > this, such a small amount will appear clear when regents are not
present.
> : > Sure sea water interferes with light transmission, in large volumes.
> : >
> : > Until you are willing to back up your arguments with facts or figures,
I
> : > just think that you should avoid saying that it CANNOT work. All you
say
> : is
> : > that you call techs... big deal... Order one of the Medusa units and
do a
> : > write-up on it. Prove that it does not work....
> : >
> :
> : are you sure you dont have an intrest in this product. People dont tend
to
> : get so
> : upset unless they have been insulted.
> :
> :
>
>

CheezWiz

June 23rd 04, 01:40 AM

> are you sure you don't have an intrest in this product. People dont tend
to
> get so
> upset unless they have been insulted.

I am not upset. I just think it is irresponsible to make such claims.. thats
all...

"david" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CheezWiz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I just do not believe that such a small shift in salinity will make such
a
> > large shift in readings.
> > If that were the case, then no chemical test would work for the eye
> either.
> > The colors would be so different between 1.024 and 1.026 that the color
> > charts would be useless!
> > We are talking about a very small amount of water that for a tester like
> > this, such a small amount will appear clear when regents are not
present.
> > Sure sea water interferes with light transmission, in large volumes.
> >
> > Until you are willing to back up your arguments with facts or figures, I
> > just think that you should avoid saying that it CANNOT work. All you say
> is
> > that you call techs... big deal... Order one of the Medusa units and do
a
> > write-up on it. Prove that it does not work....
> >
>
> are you sure you dont have an intrest in this product. People dont tend to
> get so
> upset unless they have been insulted.
>
>

mctabish

June 23rd 04, 11:14 AM

You are not the only one that is color challenged!
I am also weak in the green/red areas of site! And test kits are a PAIN in
the BUTT!!!!

I use a sensor for Ammonia (Ammonia Alert) from SeaChem. You can get it from
lots of places, but the info
from MarineDepot is:
Item SC4111 Ammonia Alert Price 3.99

It will shift from yellow to green (darker) to I think it is blue, The
changes are great enough you should not have any problems (at least I
don't!). I have been able to use this very well.

Now if I could just find something for NO2, NO3, PO4 and Ca!

HTH,
Mc

"AAA" > wrote in message
news:NvkAc.1808$5t2.1561@fed1read01...
> I'm red/green color blind. Doesn't mean I can't see those colures, I
> just see different ones than you do. I cannot do test strips. Are there
> some kind of probes that show a digital display of the basic test items?
> Or better yet can I get some thing I can hook up to my computer to log
> the results? URL address please.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

Boomer

June 23rd 04, 09:19 PM

Well Cheese, as I said in this thread and the other. It does work, they will work, if it
is calibtated correctly, GET IT. So don't be putting words in my mouth with the fancy
talk. I said qite plainly you will get the wrong reading, usually to low. You jst dont'
understand the chloride intererfence factor do you.

"Instructions for recalibration are on their web site!"

Really, please point out that known solution of NO3 @ x salinity

"The Chem Tester only reports the 5 or so possible results from each of the
test kits. Those kits assume a standard sal****er tank at about 1.024 sal
and approx 75 degrees... Given those two conditions, the regents will yield
the same "color range" each and every time. ****All they have to do to calibrate
this tester is add the appropriate ion concentrations to a sample of sea
water****with the above stats, and then adjust the meter so it reports what they
get if they hold it up to the color chip."

--
Boomer

Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php

Want to See More ?
Please Join Our Growing Membership
www.coralrealm.com

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
"CheezWiz" > wrote in message ...
:> I asked him but no answer. Sound like a sales pitch form a person at
: SeaLife. No answer,
: > so try to dazzle and confuse one with words.
:
: I think it is quite petty to accuse someone who disagrees with your OPINION
: of a product as being a company plant. Therefore I feel no need to answer.
:
: > the one that needs to back things up is not me but Sea Life. I am not
: selling the unit
: > they are/you are. I have seen way to many hobbyists get ripped off. And I
: never said
: > cannot work, that it will work, if it is calibrate correctly.
:
: A Quote from you:
: "The one that everyone asks about is the
: ChemTester, also called the Medusa Water Tester, from www.sealifesupply.com
: for $ 270.
: Other places $330, confused here They have yet to answer a question as to
: how it can work
: in seawater, when the guys that design them say they won't without std.
: There are not stds
: for them. I guess these guys seem to think that if you use SeaTest reagents,
: some how,
: they perform some kind of magic and the meter works in seawater."
:
: I think you are stating that it does not work. That is the way I read it!
: I do not have the burden of proof here YOU DO. You stated that it cannot
: work. I simply said that the concept behind it is easy enough to understand.
:
: MY OPINION:
: I believe that if I wanted to make a detector that could determine the
: proper shade of a SeaTest result on an average properly kept aquarists
: water, I could. Using an empty vile as the reference you so desperately
: shout about. All I would need to do is pass light through the sample and
: measure the voltage at the detector, say a photo-transistor. Since I would
: not be using a SeaTest regent in fresh water, brackish water, or other out
: of range salinity, I believe that calibrating the unit to an empty vile
: would suffice... That is my OPINION....
: END OPINION:
:
: I am not making an argument that this or any other unit does or does not
: work, Just simply that because YOU say it does not, is not good enough for
: me.
:
: > Like I said before, I would like nothing better than to have this unit be
: accurate. All
: > they would have to do is have it tested against an ICP. And if it measured
: up think of the
: > sales pitch they could give. I would help promote it.
:
: All it has to do is produce the same reading you would get by holding the
: sample up to a SeaTest color chip! That is all it claims to do!
:
: > You just don't get it do you. At some point the meter will have to be
: RECALIBRATED like
: > many instruments of this type or others. It makes about as much sense as
: buying a pH meter
: > and having them do an in house calibration for seawater and then having
: you buy one, with
: > no means of RECALIBRATING it. Makes no sense at all !
:
: Instructions for recalibration are on their web site!
:
: CW
:
: "Boomer" > wrote in message
: ...
: > I asked him but no answer. Sound like a sales pitch form a person at
: SeaLife. No answer,
: > so try to dazzle and confuse one with words.
: >
: >
: > "Until you are willing to back up your arguments with facts or figures"
: >
: >
: > And Cheeze
: >
: > the one that needs to back things up is not me but Sea Life. I am not
: selling the unit
: > they are/you are. I have seen way to many hobbyists get ripped off. And I
: never said
: > cannot work, that it will work, if it is calibrate correctly.
: >
: > "Order one of the Medusa units "
: >
: > That is just my point. Buy one for the tune of $270 trust us. What makes
: you think that a
: > std SeaTest kit is not good enough for our needs
: >
: > Like I said before, I would like nothing better than to have this unit be
: accurate. All
: > they would have to do is have it tested against an ICP. And if it measured
: up think of the
: > sales pitch they could give. I would help promote it.
: >
: >
: > "The colors would be so different between 1.024 and 1.026 that the color
: > charts would be useless!"
: >
: > You just don't get it do you. At some point the meter will have to be
: RECALIBRATED like
: > many instruments of this type or others. It makes about as much sense as
: buying a pH meter
: > and having them do an in house calibration for seawater and then having
: you buy one, with
: > no means of RECALIBRATING it. Makes no sense at all !
: >
: > "All you say is
: > that you call techs"
: >
: > That is correct, so what are you afraid of ?
: >
: > Boomer
: >
: > Want to talk chemistry ? The Reef Chemistry Forum
: > http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/index.php
: >
: > Want to See More ?
: > Please Join Our Growing Membership
: > www.coralrealm.com
: >
: > If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up
: > "david" > wrote in message
: ...
: > :
: > : "CheezWiz" > wrote in message
: > : ...
: > : > I just do not believe that such a small shift in salinity will make
: such a
: > : > large shift in readings.
: > : > If that were the case, then no chemical test would work for the eye
: > : either.
: > : > The colors would be so different between 1.024 and 1.026 that the
: color
: > : > charts would be useless!
: > : > We are talking about a very small amount of water that for a tester
: like
: > : > this, such a small amount will appear clear when regents are not
: present.
: > : > Sure sea water interferes with light transmission, in large volumes.
: > : >
: > : > Until you are willing to back up your arguments with facts or figures,
: I
: > : > just think that you should avoid saying that it CANNOT work. All you
: say
: > : is
: > : > that you call techs... big deal... Order one of the Medusa units and
: do a
: > : > write-up on it. Prove that it does not work....
: > : >
: > :
: > : are you sure you dont have an intrest in this product. People dont tend
: to
: > : get so
: > : upset unless they have been insulted.
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
: