Removing ammonia from "baby" fish tank

[Tony]

I'm an intermediate skill fish keeper and am aware of cycling a tank and
such. I've got myself into a situation that I'm not sure the best way to
resolve.

In my 75 G. tank my two of my freshwater angelfish spawned. I removed the
eggs and have successfully raised the fish until now there bodies are about
the size of a 50 cent piece. I also have two subsequent spawnings at
various stages of development.

If this turns out to be worthwhile (if I can find a LFS to buy these from
me) then I may invest in larger tanks, but right now I have a 2 G.
"hatching" tank, a 5 G. intermediate tank, and a 10 G. "final" tank. It is
this 10 G. tank that is giving me problems.

The 10 G. tank is seriously overloaded. I'd guess that I have 50+ angelfish
in that tank. The ammonia is high, and I cannot get it down. I'm very
puzzled by that. I've even resorted to twice daily 50% water changes and
the ammonia is still too high. At this point I'm not sure what to do. If I
can find a LFS to take them, they're ready to go and the problem will be
solved. It may be another few days before I get there.

Should I:
Put ammo lock or something similar in the tank?
Continue with the big water changes and not worry about anything else?
Move the fish into 5 G. buckets with fresh water?
Something else....

If I can make any money off these guys, I'll invest in a larger "final"
tank, but I'm not there yet.

Tony

[Anna Hayward]

Tony,
get some filter floss out of your main tank and put it in an old sock or
stocking, in the baby tank. The ammonia won't only kill the fry, it
could also deform them and badly affect their final adult size.
--
Anna Hayward, Alien Visitor
mailto:

[Donald Kerns]

Tony wrote:

> The 10 G. tank is seriously overloaded. I'd guess that I have 50+
> angelfish
> in that tank. The ammonia is high, and I cannot get it down. I'm
> very
> puzzled by that.
>
> Should I:
> Put ammo lock or something similar in the tank?
> Continue with the big water changes and not worry about anything else?

The people growing the rotifers (mentioned in an earlier post) are
continuously pumping in an AmQuel equivalent to keep their ammonia
under control.

Then again they're also doing 400% / day water changes too...

(Keep in mind that this an industrial application...)

-Donald
--
"When you've lost your ability to laugh, you've lost your ability to
think straight." -To Inherit the Wind

[Mike Noren]

"Tony" > wrote in message >...

You already know the root of your problem and the cure, but... one
thing which is worth trying when one has ammonium problems is to put
floating plants (e.g. Pistia or water hyacinth) in there. They soak up
ammonium well, especially if the light is good.

[levittd]

"Tony" > wrote in message
...
>
> If I can make any money off these guys, I'll invest in a larger "final"
> tank, but I'm not there yet.
>
> Tony

I hate to rain on the parade, but making any kind of profit on home-bred
angels (or anything else) is HIGHLY unlikely. Those lfs' that are willing to
take in fish from hobbyists will usually only give store credit. Depending
on where you are, how bad the store wants them, etc, you're probably looking
at about 50 cents a fish. Still, investing in the larger final tank will
definitely help the health of your angels and therefore the likelihood that
you will be able to sell them. jm2c.

levittd
>
>

[Racf]

"levittd" > wrote in message
. ca...
>
> "Tony" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > If I can make any money off these guys, I'll invest in a larger
"final"
> > tank, but I'm not there yet.
> >
> > Tony
>
> I hate to rain on the parade, but making any kind of profit on
home-bred
> angels (or anything else) is HIGHLY unlikely. Those lfs' that are
willing to
> take in fish from hobbyists will usually only give store credit.
Depending
> on where you are, how bad the store wants them, etc, you're probably
looking
> at about 50 cents a fish. Still, investing in the larger final tank
will
> definitely help the health of your angels and therefore the likelihood
that
> you will be able to sell them. jm2c.
>
> levittd
> >
> >
>
>

Very well said, and also, very true. $0.50 is a fair price on store
credit. Its possible to get some cash as well, depending on the LFS. I
sell mine to one LFS for store credit and have occasionally gotten some
cash...I prefer the store credit. Its really not easy to make money
doing this hobby. One way to improve things quite a bit is to raise
desirable types of Angels. The ho hum varieties of Angels will not net
much money. There are many less plentiful types that do fetch top
dollar. Black Angels are highly desired these days.

Anyone interested in making a few dollars raising Angels fish should
hook-up with the breeders organizations and learn what can be learned
about it. The Angelfish Society (TAS) is one such organization. Its
website is:

http://www.aquaworldnet.org/tas/

A forum specializing in Angels is:

http://www.angelfish.net

There is also a chat room that can be accessed off this forum where
Angelfish breeders tend to hang-out to help each other. They are also
good sources for acquiring breeding stock of the more rare varieties.
The interesting thing about the more obscure varieties is that they do
not cost much more than the retail rate at most LFS's....although most
LFS's usually only carry the more common types.

Ammonia in fry tanks kills them very quickly. Sponge filters are
generally what breeders use. They can be easily cycled in a bucket with
some ammonia water in a few weeks. Faced with a crowed tank without
sufficient bio filtering, all one can do is add Amquel and do lots of
water changes..... That's what I do when I end up with 400 or 500 fry.
When feeding BBS, its important to clean up the uneaten BBS and do
waterchanges often. BBS rot and foul water very quickly.... Many
breeders use those little plastic shoe boxes for managing eggs and fry
until they put them into the final growout tanks. They are cheap and
easy to switch out with fresh water.

Faced without enough growout space, its better to cull down to what can
be managed rather than running over stocked and losing them all. The
Sunday paper is always a good place to look for new growout tanks.
$0.50 per gallon for a used tank and equipment is a fair price to pay.

[Tony]

FWIW, I was able to find a local fish store that will pay me $1 per
angelfish, cash. She'll take all I can give her. Sold her 35 about a week
ago and should have another 35 available in another week. (I also have
about 100 that need about another month and some newly hatched eggs.)

Although I'm not in a position to turn this into a living, I think I can
"make" enough on this to start contributing to the overall cost of the
hobby. I figure that on average I should eventually be able to sell 50 per
month to this store. That's not too shabby considering the overall costs
are low.

If I had a larger (55 G.) tank at my disposal I could probably even raise
larger batches to maturity. That might open up the opportunity of supplying
more than 1 store.

I've been told that tank raised angels do much better than harvested, and
for whatever reason the LFSs in this area don't seem to have a good supply
of angels. Perhaps a supplier problems. Looks like this might work out OK
for me "breaking into" the market.

Tony

[NetMax]

"Tony" > wrote in message
...
> FWIW, I was able to find a local fish store that will pay me $1 per
> angelfish, cash. She'll take all I can give her. Sold her 35 about a
week
> ago and should have another 35 available in another week. (I also have
> about 100 that need about another month and some newly hatched eggs.)
>
> Although I'm not in a position to turn this into a living, I think I
can
> "make" enough on this to start contributing to the overall cost of the
> hobby. I figure that on average I should eventually be able to sell 50
per
> month to this store. That's not too shabby considering the overall
costs
> are low.
>
> If I had a larger (55 G.) tank at my disposal I could probably even
raise
> larger batches to maturity. That might open up the opportunity of
supplying
> more than 1 store.
>
> I've been told that tank raised angels do much better than harvested,
and
> for whatever reason the LFSs in this area don't seem to have a good
supply
> of angels. Perhaps a supplier problems. Looks like this might work
out OK
> for me "breaking into" the market.
>
> Tony

For various reasons, the most successful local fish to breed are IMO (and
in order of success), Angelfish, Discus and Guppies. Not coincidentally,
Angelfish & Discus do not tranship well, Angelfish & Guppies are very
easy sellers, and the genetic reputations of all three of these fish when
imported, is less than glowing, resulting in a higher operating costs for
the LFS, due to losses incurred in mortality, warranty replacement and
lost time in getting them in prime condition.

There is probably a local market potential with a few other fish as well,
but it's much more niche than Angelfish & Guppies. If you had a built in
pond in your basement, (or lived in Florida) , then there are some Koi
which might put your kids through university ;~) However, when a Blue
Heron eats a $4000 Koi, insurance companies might not be as sympathetic
as you would like.

NetMax