The perfect protein skimmer..

[Benjamin Slade]

I've used several different kinds of protein skimmers and I've never
been completely happy with any of them.

I don't like the fact that almost all the venturi or bio-ball skimmers
(the ones that depend on pressure/flow to create the small bubbles) use
the same pump for creating the bubbles as they do for circulating the
water. Inevitably, there's too much flow out and bubbles escape. Also,
most skimmers don't have sufficient capabilities for removing the very
fine bubbles that inevitably leak out.

Also, the protein skimmers that require a strong flow to generate
bubbles create more heat (and waste more energy). For the skimmers in
the sump, this ends up heating the tank.

I've been thinking about commissioning a custom built protein skimmer.
It's characteristics would include the following:

* It would sit on the floor behind the tank, giving it a huge amount of
volume.

* It would have two main chambers. Water from the reef tank would flow
into the first chamber where the bubbles would hang out to make contact
with the proteins in the water. From there water would flow into the
2nd chamber where bubbles would be removed from the water. The water
would then flow from the 2nd chamber back to the main tank.

* I'd like some sort of system to create bubbles in the first chamber
that doesn't use too much power. Wooden airstones work pretty good,
but they constantly have to be replaced. Maybe some sort of air
injection nozzle? I guess they would clog a lot. Are small bubbles
created better when the water pressure is lower? Ie. the injector at
the top of the water column? But it needs to be at the bottom of the
column to get the counter-current effect. Hmmm.

* For the second "de-bubble" chamber, I was thinking about some sort of
centrifugal system that, by essentially increasing the pressure in the
water (via centrifugal force), makes the bubbles more bouyant and forces
them out faster into the central "tornado". I think there are some
medical gadgets which do stuff like this for blood (bubbles in blood are
a bad thing). I doubt they could be adapted, but the same principal
could be used.

* The counter-current water flow through the first chamber could be
tuned independently of the overall flow through the skimmer. Ie. the
water flow through the overall skimmer could be very slow, but the
downward water flow in the first chamber could be tuned to let the
bubbles float up appropriately slowly.

Ok, that's all my ideas for now. If anybody is interested in accepting
a job designing and building something like this, send me an email (I'm
serious). Previous designs and construction experience are, of course,
relevant.

Remember, even if you think I'm a clueless poser, it's polite to provide
suggestions for improvement rather than question my mother's fidelity.

Ben Slade
www.benslade.com

(include "030516 at the end of the subject line to bypass my spam filters)
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be moved by statistics"
Oscar Wilde

[skozzy]

I am about to make myself a skimmer using 4 wooden air blocks, and build it
into a tall 100mm wide PVC pipe, I was going to make it about 1.5 meters
tall, and have the air stones 30cm from the bottom, and the water output 5cm
from the bottom, the input water would enter via the top 5cm, the 30cm space
at the bottom would allow most of the bubbles if not all to rise as the flow
into and out of the skimmer would be around 700 litres an hour via a small
powerhead. So a small water flow with high air flow should be mostly bubble
free.

I have seen this working at a friends place and for $40aus in parts and at
least 20x bigger then my current skimmer I recon it will perform quite well.

As for changing the wooden air stones, well it's basically balsa wood, and
that's fairly cheap, I will try my hand at making my own, if not I will pay
the $1aus each and replace them as needed. Later I will try a power head
inside the skimmer with an air feed going into the impeller for the bubbles

But what your thinking of making sounds good to me. Start with your skimmer
before you make a bubble trap and see if you get a bubble free water return,
it might same you a few dollars.


"Benjamin Slade" > wrote in message
...
> I've used several different kinds of protein skimmers and I've never
> been completely happy with any of them.
>
> I don't like the fact that almost all the venturi or bio-ball skimmers
> (the ones that depend on pressure/flow to create the small bubbles) use
> the same pump for creating the bubbles as they do for circulating the
> water. Inevitably, there's too much flow out and bubbles escape. Also,
> most skimmers don't have sufficient capabilities for removing the very
> fine bubbles that inevitably leak out.
>
> Also, the protein skimmers that require a strong flow to generate
> bubbles create more heat (and waste more energy). For the skimmers in
> the sump, this ends up heating the tank.
>
> I've been thinking about commissioning a custom built protein skimmer.
> It's characteristics would include the following:
>
> * It would sit on the floor behind the tank, giving it a huge amount of
> volume.
>
> * It would have two main chambers. Water from the reef tank would flow
> into the first chamber where the bubbles would hang out to make contact
> with the proteins in the water. From there water would flow into the
> 2nd chamber where bubbles would be removed from the water. The water
> would then flow from the 2nd chamber back to the main tank.
>
> * I'd like some sort of system to create bubbles in the first chamber
> that doesn't use too much power. Wooden airstones work pretty good,
> but they constantly have to be replaced. Maybe some sort of air
> injection nozzle? I guess they would clog a lot. Are small bubbles
> created better when the water pressure is lower? Ie. the injector at
> the top of the water column? But it needs to be at the bottom of the
> column to get the counter-current effect. Hmmm.
>
> * For the second "de-bubble" chamber, I was thinking about some sort of
> centrifugal system that, by essentially increasing the pressure in the
> water (via centrifugal force), makes the bubbles more bouyant and forces
> them out faster into the central "tornado". I think there are some
> medical gadgets which do stuff like this for blood (bubbles in blood are
> a bad thing). I doubt they could be adapted, but the same principal
> could be used.
>
> * The counter-current water flow through the first chamber could be
> tuned independently of the overall flow through the skimmer. Ie. the
> water flow through the overall skimmer could be very slow, but the
> downward water flow in the first chamber could be tuned to let the
> bubbles float up appropriately slowly.
>
> Ok, that's all my ideas for now. If anybody is interested in accepting
> a job designing and building something like this, send me an email (I'm
> serious). Previous designs and construction experience are, of course,
> relevant.
>
> Remember, even if you think I'm a clueless poser, it's polite to provide
> suggestions for improvement rather than question my mother's fidelity.
>
> Ben Slade
> www.benslade.com
>
> (include "030516 at the end of the subject line to bypass my spam filters)
> "It's the mark of an educated mind to be moved by statistics"
> Oscar Wilde
>

[Marc Levenson]

Because you are going to put this on a 29g tank, you just don't need it.
I'd recommend a Remora skimmer for your tank (HOB) or the Urchin
skimmer if you actually incorporate a sump as you mentioned in your
previous post.

If you want to overskim, get the Pro series.

Marc


Benjamin Slade wrote:

> I've used several different kinds of protein skimmers and I've never
> been completely happy with any of them.
>
> I don't like the fact that almost all the venturi or bio-ball skimmers
> (the ones that depend on pressure/flow to create the small bubbles) use
> the same pump for creating the bubbles as they do for circulating the
> water. Inevitably, there's too much flow out and bubbles escape. Also,
> most skimmers don't have sufficient capabilities for removing the very
> fine bubbles that inevitably leak out.
>
> Also, the protein skimmers that require a strong flow to generate
> bubbles create more heat (and waste more energy). For the skimmers in
> the sump, this ends up heating the tank.
>
> I've been thinking about commissioning a custom built protein skimmer.
> It's characteristics would include the following:
>
> * It would sit on the floor behind the tank, giving it a huge amount of
> volume.
>
> * It would have two main chambers. Water from the reef tank would flow
> into the first chamber where the bubbles would hang out to make contact
> with the proteins in the water. From there water would flow into the
> 2nd chamber where bubbles would be removed from the water. The water
> would then flow from the 2nd chamber back to the main tank.
>
> * I'd like some sort of system to create bubbles in the first chamber
> that doesn't use too much power. Wooden airstones work pretty good,
> but they constantly have to be replaced. Maybe some sort of air
> injection nozzle? I guess they would clog a lot. Are small bubbles
> created better when the water pressure is lower? Ie. the injector at
> the top of the water column? But it needs to be at the bottom of the
> column to get the counter-current effect. Hmmm.
>
> * For the second "de-bubble" chamber, I was thinking about some sort of
> centrifugal system that, by essentially increasing the pressure in the
> water (via centrifugal force), makes the bubbles more bouyant and forces
> them out faster into the central "tornado". I think there are some
> medical gadgets which do stuff like this for blood (bubbles in blood are
> a bad thing). I doubt they could be adapted, but the same principal
> could be used.
>
> * The counter-current water flow through the first chamber could be
> tuned independently of the overall flow through the skimmer. Ie. the
> water flow through the overall skimmer could be very slow, but the
> downward water flow in the first chamber could be tuned to let the
> bubbles float up appropriately slowly.
>
> Ok, that's all my ideas for now. If anybody is interested in accepting
> a job designing and building something like this, send me an email (I'm
> serious). Previous designs and construction experience are, of course,
> relevant.
>
> Remember, even if you think I'm a clueless poser, it's polite to provide
> suggestions for improvement rather than question my mother's fidelity.
>
> Ben Slade
> www.benslade.com
>
> (include "030516 at the end of the subject line to bypass my spam filters)
> "It's the mark of an educated mind to be moved by statistics"
> Oscar Wilde
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Simon O'Keeffe]

I am doing something similar.
I intend to use a large glass tank for the skimmer.
A few baffles should fix up the bubble problem, I still want to use a
beckett injector but the pump for this is going to be for making bubbles
only.
The flow through is going to be from the returns.
IMO this is a more gentle way to skim and more plankton should make it.
I have not used a skimmer for years as the current styles are just to
hard on plankton and I just love using my ATS.
I want a skimmer so I can do some tests on ozone, with the ATS I tend to
get greening of the water and I want to try ozone to remove this.
Simon



Benjamin Slade wrote:

> I've used several different kinds of protein skimmers and I've never
> been completely happy with any of them.
>
> I don't like the fact that almost all the venturi or bio-ball skimmers
> (the ones that depend on pressure/flow to create the small bubbles)
> use the same pump for creating the bubbles as they do for circulating
> the water. Inevitably, there's too much flow out and bubbles escape.
> Also, most skimmers don't have sufficient capabilities for removing
> the very fine bubbles that inevitably leak out.
>
> Also, the protein skimmers that require a strong flow to generate
> bubbles create more heat (and waste more energy). For the skimmers
> in the sump, this ends up heating the tank.
>
> I've been thinking about commissioning a custom built protein skimmer.
> It's characteristics would include the following:
>
> * It would sit on the floor behind the tank, giving it a huge amount
> of volume.
>
> * It would have two main chambers. Water from the reef tank would
> flow into the first chamber where the bubbles would hang out to make
> contact with the proteins in the water. From there water would flow
> into the 2nd chamber where bubbles would be removed from the water.
> The water would then flow from the 2nd chamber back to the main tank.
>
> * I'd like some sort of system to create bubbles in the first chamber
> that doesn't use too much power. Wooden airstones work pretty good,
> but they constantly have to be replaced. Maybe some sort of air
> injection nozzle? I guess they would clog a lot. Are small bubbles
> created better when the water pressure is lower? Ie. the injector at
> the top of the water column? But it needs to be at the bottom of the
> column to get the counter-current effect. Hmmm.
>
> * For the second "de-bubble" chamber, I was thinking about some sort
> of centrifugal system that, by essentially increasing the pressure in
> the water (via centrifugal force), makes the bubbles more bouyant and
> forces them out faster into the central "tornado". I think there are
> some medical gadgets which do stuff like this for blood (bubbles in
> blood are a bad thing). I doubt they could be adapted, but the same
> principal could be used.
>
> * The counter-current water flow through the first chamber could be
> tuned independently of the overall flow through the skimmer. Ie. the
> water flow through the overall skimmer could be very slow, but the
> downward water flow in the first chamber could be tuned to let the
> bubbles float up appropriately slowly.
>
> Ok, that's all my ideas for now. If anybody is interested in
> accepting a job designing and building something like this, send me an
> email (I'm serious). Previous designs and construction experience
> are, of course, relevant.
>
> Remember, even if you think I'm a clueless poser, it's polite to
> provide suggestions for improvement rather than question my mother's
> fidelity.
>
> Ben Slade
> www.benslade.com
>
> (include "030516 at the end of the subject line to bypass my spam
> filters)
> "It's the mark of an educated mind to be moved by statistics"
> Oscar Wilde
>