Question on Bristle Worms

[Rick]

Over the last couple of weeks I have treated my main tank with Mardel
due to a die off of a lot of fish due to an Ich and/or a stage 2
bacterial infection.

Interesting enough, Now that I think back after looking at the dead
fish- with almost scares on their skins-I think now that the die off
may have also been due to a Bristle Worm not just Ich.

What I'm wondering is?
Now that the tank has been treated with an antibiotic (Mardel) could
it be that the Maracyn may have also killed off the Bristle Worm(s) if
there even was any in the tank?

According to the manufacture of the Mardel medication all inverts must
be removed prior to treatment. So what I'm hoping is that this
medication may have also wiped out any Bristle Worms?

Does anyone know about this? Or may have had any experience killing
off Bristle Worms.

THKS/Rick

[Kevin M]

"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
| Interesting enough, Now that I think back after looking at the dead
| fish- with almost scares on their skins-I think now that the die off
| may have also been due to a Bristle Worm not just Ich.

Bristle worms did not kill your fish, or even play a hand in their deaths.
They just do what they do, which is scavenge dead (or dying) meat.

| What I'm wondering is?
| Now that the tank has been treated with an antibiotic (Mardel) could
| it be that the Maracyn may have also killed off the Bristle Worm(s) if
| there even was any in the tank?

You point to BWs as a possible cause of death, yet you don't know if you
even have any?

| According to the manufacture of the Mardel medication all inverts must
| be removed prior to treatment. So what I'm hoping is that this
| medication may have also wiped out any Bristle Worms?

If you do (or did) have BWs, you wouldn't want to kill them off. They fill a
niche. If the niche didn't exist, neither would the BWs. I have no idea
about Mardel, I've never heard of it. But, if it said remove all inverts,
you probably did more damage to your micro-life than just killing BWs.

FWIW,
Kev

[Simon O'Keeffe]

Bristle worm and micro inverts are a good thing for the tank.
Chemicals are bad for the tank.
You have definitely done more harm than good.
Ask first next time, it's probably too late to do anything about it now.
Simon


Rick wrote:

>Over the last couple of weeks I have treated my main tank with Mardel
>due to a die off of a lot of fish due to an Ich and/or a stage 2
>bacterial infection.
>
>Interesting enough, Now that I think back after looking at the dead
>fish- with almost scares on their skins-I think now that the die off
>may have also been due to a Bristle Worm not just Ich.
>
>What I'm wondering is?
>Now that the tank has been treated with an antibiotic (Mardel) could
>it be that the Maracyn may have also killed off the Bristle Worm(s) if
>there even was any in the tank?
>
>According to the manufacture of the Mardel medication all inverts must
>be removed prior to treatment. So what I'm hoping is that this
>medication may have also wiped out any Bristle Worms?
>
>Does anyone know about this? Or may have had any experience killing
>off Bristle Worms.
>
>THKS/Rick
>
>

[Rick]

Thanks for the reply Kevin, that some encouraging news. If BWs do no
harm anything, then the owner of my LFS does not know what he is
talking about. I get better info from rec.aquaria.marine.reefs then
anywhere else.


> You point to BWs as a possible cause of death, yet you don't know if you
> even have any?

Just a thought because there seemed to be damage to the skin on the
fish, I guess it was all because of an infection.

THKS/Rick

[Rick]

Thanks for the reply Kevin, that some encouraging news. If BWs do no
harm anything, then the owner of my LFS does not know what he is
talking about. I get better info from rec.aquaria.marine.reefs then
anywhere else.


> You point to BWs as a possible cause of death, yet you don't know if you
> even have any?

Just a thought because there seemed to be damage to the skin on the
fish, I guess it was all because of an infection.

THKS/Rick

[Richard Reynolds]

> Thanks for the reply Kevin, that some encouraging news.
sometimes its the only thing left :D

> If BWs do no
> harm anything, then the owner of my LFS does not know what he is
> talking about.

OOH MY!!!

thats such a shock, ive never heard of a LFS that doesnt know there A$$ from
there elbow :D



> I get better info from rec.aquaria.marine.reefs then
> anywhere else.

:D

> > You point to BWs as a possible cause of death, yet you don't know if you
> > even have any?
>
> Just a thought because there seemed to be damage to the skin on the
> fish, I guess it was all because of an infection.

probibly not, there are many causes of infections, and other scale problems,
check out the forum on reefcentral.com on infections and such, lots of info +
pictures.


richard reynolds

[Rick]

YW. You have definitely done more harm than good. I dont think so?

The medication will not effect the Bio filteration system. I had no
ammonia spike 0%

Ask first next time, it's probably too late to do anything about it
now

1.To late to do what? Whats anything?

2.If you had an infestation of Ich and a severe bacterial infection
and lost 90% of fish in your tank within a couple of days. What would
you have done different?

The fish all look healthy swiming/eating and then all of a sudden they
die the within days of each other one by one.

[Steve Sells]

"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> Over the last couple of weeks I have treated my main tank with Mardel
> due to a die off of a lot of fish due to an Ich and/or a stage 2
> bacterial infection.
>

A reef tank is based on its inverts, both micro and macro worms, snails,
crabs. Many things we can't even see without magnification. Various
bacteria's also help to balance out the system. Mardel dosing in a hospital
tank is ok, but not in the main, because now its very possible you are now
the proud owner of DEAD rock.

As for the bristle worms: Most LFS people don't know the difference
between Hermodice Carunculata (Fire worm, very bad) and the various
Eurythoe Spp. (bristle worms, very good) So they put them into the same
Dangerous category.

Steve

[Rick]

>
> A reef tank is based on its inverts, both micro and macro worms, snails,
> crabs.

I also have a 55 gal fish tank so all the crabs-snails starfish ect
where put in that tank during the treatment. There is still alot of
green alge in the 125 gal tank so I dont think the snails and crabs
will starve not that there back home.

Various bacteria's also help to balance out the system. As for the
nitrobacter and nitrosomonas this medication will not interfer with
the biological filteratio

because now its very possible you are now the proud owner of DEAD
rock. I dont think its that bad.

There was no build up of ammonia or nitrite, and even if there was
alot of die off on the live rock I will toss it and just go buy some
premium marshel island. Do i need to replace some or all it or ?
>
> As for the bristle worms: Most LFS people don't know the difference
> between Hermodice Carunculata (Fire worm, very bad) and the various
> Eurythoe Spp. (bristle worms, very good) So they put them into the same
> Dangerous category.

Yes, that true, I learned a new lesson. I'm still a newbee but
learning is fun and what most of this hobbie is about, i just which I
would have read about it not have it happen. Oh well......... Keep
trying Keep learning. Its all fun. BTW my 55 gal FO/no live rock
tank is going great. I have two ehiems and a hang on the back protein
skimmer this system is awesome, some time I think for a fish only
tank its better then a sump setup.

Steve

[Rick]

>
> A reef tank is based on its inverts, both micro and macro worms, snails,
> crabs.

I also have a 55 gal fish tank so all the crabs-snails starfish ect
where put in that tank during the treatment. There is still alot of
green alge in the 125 gal tank so I dont think the snails and crabs
will starve not that there back home.

Various bacteria's also help to balance out the system. As for the
nitrobacter and nitrosomonas this medication will not interfer with
the biological filteratio

because now its very possible you are now the proud owner of DEAD
rock. I dont think its that bad.

There was no build up of ammonia or nitrite, and even if there was
alot of die off on the live rock I will toss it and just go buy some
premium marshel island. Do i need to replace some or all it or ?
>
> As for the bristle worms: Most LFS people don't know the difference
> between Hermodice Carunculata (Fire worm, very bad) and the various
> Eurythoe Spp. (bristle worms, very good) So they put them into the same
> Dangerous category.

Yes, that true, I learned a new lesson. I'm still a newbee but
learning is fun and what most of this hobbie is about, i just which I
would have read about it not have it happen. Oh well......... Keep
trying Keep learning. Its all fun. BTW my 55 gal FO/no live rock
tank is going great. I have two ehiems and a hang on the back protein
skimmer this system is awesome, some time I think for a fish only
tank its better then a sump setup.

Steve

[Fishnut]

On 2 Jul 2004 21:26:23 -0700, (Rick) wrote:

>>
>> A reef tank is based on its inverts, both micro and macro worms, snails,
>> crabs.
>
>I also have a 55 gal fish tank so all the crabs-snails starfish ect
>where put in that tank during the treatment. There is still alot of
>green alge in the 125 gal tank so I dont think the snails and crabs
>will starve not that there back home.
>
>Various bacteria's also help to balance out the system. As for the
>nitrobacter and nitrosomonas this medication will not interfer with
>the biological filteratio
>
>because now its very possible you are now the proud owner of DEAD
>rock. I dont think its that bad.
>
>There was no build up of ammonia or nitrite, and even if there was
>alot of die off on the live rock I will toss it and just go buy some
>premium marshel island. Do i need to replace some or all it or ?
>>
Rick,

I would keep it. Even if the chemical has killed all of the surface
invertibrates, as long as it does not contain copper, bacteria will
recolonize the rock fairly quickly. If you are going to buy new rock,
use the present stuff as base-rock. It is too expensive to dump it.
Anyway, best wishes for your set-up.

Regards, Fishnut.

[Simon O'Keeffe]

Adding chemicals to your tank is very rarely going to help your fish.
NExt time someting is wrong just start doing water changes with clean
SW, as large a percentage change as possible at a time. Until you have
asked here (or somewhere else that usually gives reliable info, (not the
LFS)) just stick to changing water. A lot of times this is your only
option anyway.
I'm sorry if I came off wrong but I just wanted to stress the importance
of not adding medications except as a very last resort, and even then
more than one source should recomend the treatment and explain why it
will help and the side effects of the particular products use.
I have not added more than Kalk and Baking soda to my tank for many many
years and change maybe
50% of my water per year. I found dosing some of this and some of that
made the levels of what I test go all over the shop.
Since throwing all the useless additives and medications out my tank has
gone ahead really well.
There us no magic cures, some look attractive short term but in the long
run it's the cause of the problem that needs to be addressed not the effect.
Simon

Rick wrote:

>YW. You have definitely done more harm than good. I dont think so?
>
>The medication will not effect the Bio filteration system. I had no
>ammonia spike 0%
>
>Ask first next time, it's probably too late to do anything about it
>now
>
>1.To late to do what? Whats anything?
>
>2.If you had an infestation of Ich and a severe bacterial infection
>and lost 90% of fish in your tank within a couple of days. What would
>you have done different?
>
>The fish all look healthy swiming/eating and then all of a sudden they
>die the within days of each other one by one.
>
>