What brand of salt to use?

[Mandarin333]

Hi all. I just read the "S-15 Report" at http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html

This is truly shocking stuff. I've been using Instant O. for years and
Coralife only to find out they're not so good based on the S-15 report. I
tried to find online retail sources of the top three ranked salts (Marine
Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine) and couldn't. Anyone got any
recommendations?

[Eric]

Mandarin333 wrote:
> Hi all. I just read the "S-15 Report" at http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html
>
> This is truly shocking stuff. I've been using Instant O. for years and
> Coralife only to find out they're not so good based on the S-15 report. I
> tried to find online retail sources of the top three ranked salts (Marine
> Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine) and couldn't. Anyone got any
> recommendations?

I buy Bio-Sea MarineMix from these guys:
http://www.northcoastmarines.com/salt.htm

I've never had any problems when ordering from them.

Eric
http://www.atreis.com/

[Mandarin333]

>Subject: Re: What brand of salt to use?
>From: Eric
>Date: 7/4/04 10:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Mandarin333 wrote:
>> Hi all. I just read the "S-15 Report" at
>http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html
>>
>> This is truly shocking stuff. I've been using Instant O. for years and
>> Coralife only to find out they're not so good based on the S-15 report.
>I
>> tried to find online retail sources of the top three ranked salts (Marine
>> Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine) and couldn't. Anyone got any
>> recommendations?
>
>I buy Bio-Sea MarineMix from these guys:
>http://www.northcoastmarines.com/salt.htm
>
>I've never had any problems when ordering from them.
>
>Eric

Thanks alot.

-M333

[Pszemol]

"Mandarin333" > wrote in message ...
> Hi all. I just read the "S-15 Report" at http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html
>
> This is truly shocking stuff. I've been using Instant O. for years and
> Coralife only to find out they're not so good based on the S-15 report.

Have you got any problems you can blame bad salt for?

> I tried to find online retail sources of the top three ranked salts (Marine
> Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine) and couldn't. Anyone got any
> recommendations?

I am looking at the webpage you have linked here and it is hard to believe
Instant Ocean got so bad score. Looking at score system we see that it got
only 26 points, while it has uniform particle size, it mixes to proper pH
and it contains all proper amounts of sea water ions... Only these three
could get to level 40 points... What is the detail behind the score presented?
Have you seen full report grading these salts? I am interested to see what
is the reason behind deciding "uniform particle size" has importance 10,
as the content of calcium and strontium, which you have to dose between
water changes anyway to maintain the calcium levels constant...

I would not change anything in my tank based on such "test" - you can
always compile data in such way one salt will look good and another bad.
This is not science. This is bad marketing... Who paid for the test? :-)

I know many successful reefers using Instant Ocean, I know none
using BIO-SEA or Marine Environment... I will go with Instant Ocean :-)

[Simon O'Keeffe]

Yep IO has been a staple for a very long time.
If there is a problem with it it would have shown up in the millions of
litres of it currently pumping through folks reefs.
MAybe there are better salts out there on paper but IMO IO salt has
proved itself more so than any other brand in the market place. It's
used globally.
I use a knock off of it that is produced locally and this has kept my
reefs happy for long enough that I trust it.
The alk level is low on mixing but some quick adjustments ( a few
teaspoons of baking soda) and it's good to go.
Simon

Pszemol wrote:

>"Mandarin333" > wrote in message ...
>
>
>>Hi all. I just read the "S-15 Report" at http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html
>>
>>This is truly shocking stuff. I've been using Instant O. for years and
>>Coralife only to find out they're not so good based on the S-15 report.
>>
>>
>
>Have you got any problems you can blame bad salt for?
>
>
>
>>I tried to find online retail sources of the top three ranked salts (Marine
>>Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine) and couldn't. Anyone got any
>>recommendations?
>>
>>
>
>I am looking at the webpage you have linked here and it is hard to believe
>Instant Ocean got so bad score. Looking at score system we see that it got
>only 26 points, while it has uniform particle size, it mixes to proper pH
>and it contains all proper amounts of sea water ions... Only these three
>could get to level 40 points... What is the detail behind the score presented?
>Have you seen full report grading these salts? I am interested to see what
>is the reason behind deciding "uniform particle size" has importance 10,
>as the content of calcium and strontium, which you have to dose between
>water changes anyway to maintain the calcium levels constant...
>
>I would not change anything in my tank based on such "test" - you can
>always compile data in such way one salt will look good and another bad.
>This is not science. This is bad marketing... Who paid for the test? :-)
>
>I know many successful reefers using Instant Ocean, I know none
>using BIO-SEA or Marine Environment... I will go with Instant Ocean :-)
>
>

[Rod]

A few months ago, I would have posted the exact same thing, but I have switched
to Oceanic salt, and I am very happy with the results. Much better CA, and alk
levels. disolves much faster/more clearly, no precipitate left like the IO
leaves behind, no faded corals like the bio-assay left. Oceabnic still comes in
a 200 gal mix bucket, where the IO 200 gal mix is now 4 seperate 50 gal
bagsthat are tossed into a box.

>Yep IO has been a staple for a very long time.
>If there is a problem with it it would have shown up in the millions of
>litres of it currently pumping through folks reefs.
>MAybe there are better salts out there on paper but IMO IO salt has
>proved itself more so than any other brand in the market place. It's
>used globally.
>I use a knock off of it that is produced locally and this has kept my
>reefs happy for long enough that I trust it.
>The alk level is low on mixing but some quick adjustments ( a few
>teaspoons of baking soda) and it's good to go.
>Simon
>

[Dan Norgard]

If you go to their Order Page you'll find they only sell Marine
Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine which just happen to be the top rated
ones in the report. Coincidence or bias? You can get a survey/report to say
anything you want. I blew this one off months ago simply because of the
obvious predjudice.
Dan


"Mandarin333" > wrote in message
...
Hi all. I just read the "S-15 Report" at
http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html

This is truly shocking stuff. I've been using Instant O. for years and
Coralife only to find out they're not so good based on the S-15 report. I
tried to find online retail sources of the top three ranked salts (Marine
Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine) and couldn't. Anyone got any
recommendations?

[Pszemol]

"Rod" > wrote in message ...
> A few months ago, I would have posted the exact same thing, but I have switched
> to Oceanic salt, and I am very happy with the results. Much better CA, and alk
> levels. disolves much faster/more clearly, no precipitate left like the IO
> leaves behind, no faded corals like the bio-assay left.

Rod, do you dose CA/Alk between water changes?
Or you rely on Ca/Alk levels in the salt mix entirely?
If you dose them anyway, like I think you do, why is it so important?

> Oceabnic still comes in a 200 gal mix bucket, where the IO 200 gal mix
> is now 4 seperate 50 gal bagsthat are tossed into a box.

This last one could be a good thing...
Especially if you do not use up whole bucket at once.
The rest of salt remains sealed for the time you use it.

Why do you think it is bad thing? I would like it...
Anyway, I heard IO is now in 150 gallons mix buckets.
Am I wrong or they stop making 200 g mix buckets?

Anyway - anybody have seen full S-15 report and knows details?

[Eric]

Dan Norgard wrote:
> If you go to their Order Page you'll find they only sell Marine
> Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine which just happen to be the top rated
> ones in the report. Coincidence or bias? You can get a survey/report to say
> anything you want. I blew this one off months ago simply because of the
> obvious predjudice.
> Dan

Actually, one could read this either way. They might sell these brands
because they can make more profit on them, and the report was biased
towards the brands that they could make more profit on.

An alternative could be that they did the study, then started selling
the brands that came out on top because they're the brands that came out
on top.

One can't assume one over the other without more evidence.

I use Bio-Sea MarineMix, but I don't buy it from these folks. I'm very
happy with it, but one can find people that are happy and unhappy with
any brand of salt. Bio-Sea costs about the same as IO. (IMO, the cost
of salt is so small compared with the cost of just about everything else
with a reef tank that the cost difference between brands is insignificant.)

BTW... I've only tried two brands of salt. Crystal Sea and Bio-Sea.
The former took substantially longer to dissolve and left behind a
residue, so I stuck with the Bio-Sea. I've not tried IO or any other brand.

Enjoy your tank, regardless of salt brand.

Eric
http://www.atreis.com

[Fishnut]

On 04 Jul 2004 03:07:59 GMT, (Mandarin333) wrote:

>Hi all. I just read the "S-15 Report" at http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html
>
>This is truly shocking stuff. I've been using Instant O. for years and
>Coralife only to find out they're not so good based on the S-15 report. I
>tried to find online retail sources of the top three ranked salts (Marine
>Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine) and couldn't. Anyone got any
>recommendations?

Hello Mandarin333,

As the other posters have said, there seems to be a commercial profit
motive behind the Report. This is disgraceful, but it isn't the first
time that it has happened.
Use the salt you are happiest with. Probably each salt has pluses and
minuses. If something as amiss with your setup, the cause will
probably lie elsewhere than the saltmix.

Regards, Fishnut.

[Pszemol]

"Eric" > wrote in message ...
> I use Bio-Sea MarineMix, but I don't buy it from these folks. I'm very
> happy with it, but one can find people that are happy and unhappy with
> any brand of salt. Bio-Sea costs about the same as IO. (IMO, the cost
> of salt is so small compared with the cost of just about everything else
> with a reef tank that the cost difference between brands is insignificant.)

How do you calculate this? Depending of how much and how often
salt is very important item on the budget. Other stuff like skimmer
or pumps you pay for once and use them almost forever - salt you
use on regular basis for water changes.

Anybody knows where the full S-15 report is located?

[Mandarin333]

>Subject: Re: What brand of salt to use?
>From: "Pszemol"
>Date: 7/5/04 9:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>"Rod" > wrote in message
...
>> A few months ago, I would have posted the exact same thing, but I have
>switched
>> to Oceanic salt, and I am very happy with the results. Much better CA, and
>alk
>> levels. disolves much faster/more clearly, no precipitate left like the IO
>> leaves behind, no faded corals like the bio-assay left.
>
>Rod, do you dose CA/Alk between water changes?
>Or you rely on Ca/Alk levels in the salt mix entirely?
>If you dose them anyway, like I think you do, why is it so important?
>
>> Oceabnic still comes in a 200 gal mix bucket, where the IO 200 gal mix
>> is now 4 seperate 50 gal bagsthat are tossed into a box.
>
>This last one could be a good thing...
>Especially if you do not use up whole bucket at once.
>The rest of salt remains sealed for the time you use it.
>
>Why do you think it is bad thing? I would like it...
>Anyway, I heard IO is now in 150 gallons mix buckets.
>Am I wrong or they stop making 200 g mix buckets?
>
>Anyway - anybody have seen full S-15 report and knows details?

Go to the main page for that site and there are more details there.

[Mandarin333]

>Subject: Re: What brand of salt to use?
>From: Fishnut
>Date: 7/5/04 6:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On 04 Jul 2004 03:07:59 GMT, (Mandarin333) wrote:
>
>>Hi all. I just read the "S-15 Report" at
>http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html
>>
>>This is truly shocking stuff. I've been using Instant O. for years and
>>Coralife only to find out they're not so good based on the S-15 report. I
>>tried to find online retail sources of the top three ranked salts (Marine
>>Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine) and couldn't. Anyone got any
>>recommendations?
>
>Hello Mandarin333,
>
>As the other posters have said, there seems to be a commercial profit
>motive behind the Report. This is disgraceful, but it isn't the first
>time that it has happened.
>Use the salt you are happiest with. Probably each salt has pluses and
>minuses. If something as amiss with your setup, the cause will
>probably lie elsewhere than the saltmix.
>
>Regards, Fishnut.

Thanks. Mail ordering salt would add quite a cost to my tank expenses.

[Richard Reynolds]

> Thanks. Mail ordering salt would add quite a cost to my tank expenses.

in the end that depends on so many things, the shipping of salt, the origional
cost, and your local market ive bought several buckets online, the cost savings
when I did so was significant, though I was going thru salt very fast. its also
not a sure thing, locally right now i can find IO buckets for $45 for 200g
buckets when ive bought them online the shipping was in the low $20's per bucket
+- any volume discounts.


richard reynolds

[Rod]

>Rod, do you dose CA/Alk between water changes?
>Or you rely on Ca/Alk levels in the salt mix entirely?
>If you dose them anyway, like I think you do, why is it so important?
>

Its much easier to maintain levels when im not starting off "in the hole" to
begin with. Why work harder to maintain the levels when I can start off an NSW
levels. (not to re mention the other benifets of oceanic)



>This last one could be a good thing...
>Especially if you do not use up whole bucket at once.
>The rest of salt remains sealed for the time you use it.

if I am only mixing 25 gal, I can reseal the remaining 175 gals worth in the
bucket. if its in th ebags, I have 3 sealed bags, and another that is not
sealed. Besided I like th ebuckets for other uses ;-).

>Why do you think it is bad thing? I would like it...
>Anyway, I heard IO is now in 150 gallons mix buckets.
>Am I wrong or they stop making 200 g mix buckets?

I am pretty sure that they are 160 gal mix, but will cost as much as the 200
gal mix that comes in a box.

[Pszemol]

"Mandarin333" > wrote in message ...
> Thanks. Mail ordering salt would add quite a cost to my tank expenses.

For me mail ordering turned out to be cheaper than buying retail in LFS.

[Pszemol]

"Rod" > wrote in message ...
> >Rod, do you dose CA/Alk between water changes?
> >Or you rely on Ca/Alk levels in the salt mix entirely?
> >If you dose them anyway, like I think you do, why is it so important?
>
> Its much easier to maintain levels when im not starting off "in the hole" to
> begin with. Why work harder to maintain the levels when I can start off an NSW
> levels. (not to re mention the other benifets of oceanic)

Sure, you are right, but I would not place Calcium levels with
such a high wages in the comparison... S-15 report gave it 10 points.

> >This last one could be a good thing...
> >Especially if you do not use up whole bucket at once.
> >The rest of salt remains sealed for the time you use it.
>
> if I am only mixing 25 gal, I can reseal the remaining 175 gals worth in the
> bucket. if its in th ebags, I have 3 sealed bags, and another that is not
> sealed. Besided I like th ebuckets for other uses ;-).

I have never ordered in box before - did not know such option is available.

> >Why do you think it is bad thing? I would like it...
> >Anyway, I heard IO is now in 150 gallons mix buckets.
> >Am I wrong or they stop making 200 g mix buckets?
>
> I am pretty sure that they are 160 gal mix, but will cost as much as the 200
> gal mix that comes in a box.

How one can order IO in 200-gallon mix sized box? What is the price?
I have not seen it in stores...

[Beaker020]

This report is about 5 years old and many of the formulations have changed
since then. IO in particular. The other important thing to note is the
report was sponsored by Aquacraft AND Aquacraft does not just sell the top
rated brands in the study, they MANUFACTURE them! The S-15 report has long
been dismissed as biased and inaccurate.

Do a search on www.reefcentral.com, there is plenty of good reading there.

"Mandarin333" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all. I just read the "S-15 Report" at
http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html
>
> This is truly shocking stuff. I've been using Instant O. for years and
> Coralife only to find out they're not so good based on the S-15 report.
I
> tried to find online retail sources of the top three ranked salts (Marine
> Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine) and couldn't. Anyone got any
> recommendations?

[Rod]

>Sure, you are right, but I would not place Calcium levels with
>such a high wages in the comparison... S-15 report gave it 10 points.
>

I would not place the s_15 with high wages.

>I have never ordered in box before - did not know such option is available.
>

I dont think the 200 gal mix bucket is still available unless they are old
buckets. The box with 4 individual 50 gal bags has replaced the buckets.

>How one can order IO in 200-gallon mix sized box? What is the price?
>I have not seen it in stores...
>

Your LFS should be able to get them.. we used to have them all the time before
switching to Oceanic. The going rtate for this area was about $56.

[Pszemol]

It did not sound right to me just from the beginning... Thanks! :-)

"Beaker020" > wrote in message news:YkKGc.44$2i3.4@clgrps12...
> This report is about 5 years old and many of the formulations have changed
> since then. IO in particular. The other important thing to note is the
> report was sponsored by Aquacraft AND Aquacraft does not just sell the top
> rated brands in the study, they MANUFACTURE them! The S-15 report has long
> been dismissed as biased and inaccurate.
>
> Do a search on www.reefcentral.com, there is plenty of good reading there.
>
> "Mandarin333" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi all. I just read the "S-15 Report" at
> http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html
> >
> > This is truly shocking stuff. I've been using Instant O. for years and
> > Coralife only to find out they're not so good based on the S-15 report.
> I
> > tried to find online retail sources of the top three ranked salts (Marine
> > Environment, BioSea, and Coral Marine) and couldn't. Anyone got any
> > recommendations?
>
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

Rod, you didn't mention the prettier bucket! :D

I too am using Oceanic now. Previously I was using Kent's Sea Salt.
Instant Ocean gave me too many problems, and I ditched it years ago.

Marc


Rod wrote:

> A few months ago, I would have posted the exact same thing, but I have switched
> to Oceanic salt, and I am very happy with the results. Much better CA, and alk
> levels. disolves much faster/more clearly, no precipitate left like the IO
> leaves behind, no faded corals like the bio-assay left. Oceabnic still comes in
> a 200 gal mix bucket, where the IO 200 gal mix is now 4 seperate 50 gal
> bagsthat are tossed into a box.
>
>
>>Yep IO has been a staple for a very long time.
>>If there is a problem with it it would have shown up in the millions of
>>litres of it currently pumping through folks reefs.
>>MAybe there are better salts out there on paper but IMO IO salt has
>>proved itself more so than any other brand in the market place. It's
>>used globally.
>>I use a knock off of it that is produced locally and this has kept my
>>reefs happy for long enough that I trust it.
>>The alk level is low on mixing but some quick adjustments ( a few
>>teaspoons of baking soda) and it's good to go.
>>Simon
>>
>
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[John]

>How one can order IO in 200-gallon mix sized box? What is the price?
>I have not seen it in stores

It's pretty cheap apparently, 39.95 (compared to $15 I spent for a 25 gal box)
for 200 gal. I'm sure shipping is a bear, but still cheaper in the long run.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Co
de=PA&Category_Code=Salt

found via froogle.com:
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=instant+ocean+200+salt
~John

[Eric]

Pszemol wrote:
> "Eric" > wrote in message ...
>
>>I use Bio-Sea MarineMix, but I don't buy it from these folks. I'm very
>>happy with it, but one can find people that are happy and unhappy with
>>any brand of salt. Bio-Sea costs about the same as IO. (IMO, the cost
>>of salt is so small compared with the cost of just about everything else
>>with a reef tank that the cost difference between brands is insignificant.)
>
> How do you calculate this? Depending of how much and how often
> salt is very important item on the budget. Other stuff like skimmer
> or pumps you pay for once and use them almost forever - salt you
> use on regular basis for water changes.

I do water changes (20 gallons, about 15% of my total volume) every 60
days. That means a $55 box of salt (enough for 150 gallons) lasts me
about a year. (Initial fillup falls into the same category as skimmer
and pumps, so doesn't count.)

Other annual expenses:
New MH lights: ~$230
New T-5 lights: ~$160
New water filter parts: ~$100

For that matter... Water bill: ~$420 (not all used for fish, of
course, but it went up noticeably when I got heavily into this hobby)

I agree with you about the skimmer and pumps, but still maintain that
salt is one of the least expensive items we spend money on, regardless
of brand.

> Anybody knows where the full S-15 report is located?

http://www.aquacraft.net/s9910.html

Eric
http://www.atreis.com/