The perfect filter

[John D. Maag]

I am getting ready to get a 200G and I want to do a better job of filtering
than I currently am. I have read "Use a Protein skimmer" I have read "Don't
use a protein skimmer" I have read "use carbon when you have to". I have
read "Use bio balls" "Don't use bio balls"

What I want to know is What methods, methodologies are employed to minimize
algae, minimize maintenance, and maximize water clarity.

[reefman MC]

I say go with a refugium and a skimmer. If your planning on keeping live
rock don't do bio balls. You can use carbon, but I personally do not.


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[Dan Norgard]

I use a refugium, skimmer and LR and my water is crystal clear and
....almost...maintenance free.
Dan

"John D. Maag" > wrote in message
m...
I am getting ready to get a 200G and I want to do a better job of filtering
than I currently am. I have read "Use a Protein skimmer" I have read "Don't
use a protein skimmer" I have read "use carbon when you have to". I have
read "Use bio balls" "Don't use bio balls"

What I want to know is What methods, methodologies are employed to minimize
algae, minimize maintenance, and maximize water clarity.

[Mort]

I suppose that could depend on what you were planning to keep?

Being that this IS a reef forum, most people would assume that is what you
are planning for but, ya never know...

~Mort

"John D. Maag" > wrote in message
m...
> I am getting ready to get a 200G and I want to do a better job of
filtering
> than I currently am. I have read "Use a Protein skimmer" I have read
"Don't
> use a protein skimmer" I have read "use carbon when you have to". I have
> read "Use bio balls" "Don't use bio balls"
>
> What I want to know is What methods, methodologies are employed to
minimize
> algae, minimize maintenance, and maximize water clarity.
>
>

[CapFusion]

"John D. Maag" > wrote in message
m...
> I am getting ready to get a 200G and I want to do a better job of
filtering
> than I currently am. I have read "Use a Protein skimmer" I have read
"Don't
> use a protein skimmer" I have read "use carbon when you have to". I have
> read "Use bio balls" "Don't use bio balls"
>
> What I want to know is What methods, methodologies are employed to
minimize
> algae, minimize maintenance, and maximize water clarity.
>
>

Sump
Refugium
Protein Skimmer
LR
LS
Good Current 6X min. water circulation
Good amount of janitoral crew.
RO/DI

This should deal with algae problem

CapFusion,...

[John D. Maag]

OK, RODI is a given, Sump, Live Rock, Live Sand are a given. I consistently
see this group promoting a Refugium so here are my questions:

1) What item(s) is/are contained in the refugium and what is/are their
functions?
2) What about protein skimmer removing "nutrients" from the water

On water movement I have been told to shoot for 10X. Is this a some is good
more is beter thing. Also along this line, I currently have a W/D and have
been told to do 4X just for it although personally I think I wasted my
money. The bio balls are questionable ( I have LR) the protein skimmer is a
joke (Came with it - Aqua clear Pro)

> Sump
> Refugium
> Protein Skimmer
> LR
> LS
> Good Current 6X min. water circulation
> Good amount of janitoral crew.
> RO/DI
>
> This should deal with algae problem
>
> CapFusion,...
>
>

[John D. Maag]

I understand what you are saying but there is no salt water group. When I
first started, I was told read, read, read. but no sources I have seen tell
you to turn your water over 10X or to only use carbon a couple of days a
month.

I wish I had a source with my LFS but mine is the biggest waste ever. I wish
there was a contest for entering the most worthless LFS. Mine would be in
Blue ribbon contention ;)

Besides I want to make sure I can take care of fish before moving on. If I
had corals now they would be covered in Brown algae.

"Mort" > wrote in message
gy.com...
> I suppose that could depend on what you were planning to keep?
>
> Being that this IS a reef forum, most people would assume that is what you
> are planning for but, ya never know...
>
> ~Mort
>

[CapFusion]

"John D. Maag" > wrote in message
om...
> OK, RODI is a given, Sump, Live Rock, Live Sand are a given. I
consistently
> see this group promoting a Refugium so here are my questions:
>
> 1) What item(s) is/are contained in the refugium and what is/are their
> functions?
> 2) What about protein skimmer removing "nutrients" from the water
>
> On water movement I have been told to shoot for 10X. Is this a some is
good
> more is beter thing. Also along this line, I currently have a W/D and have
> been told to do 4X just for it although personally I think I wasted my
> money. The bio balls are questionable ( I have LR) the protein skimmer is
a
> joke (Came with it - Aqua clear Pro)

Refugium is about the same a sump. Some people will have as a Combo
[Refugium and Sump together].
Refugium have some benifit function:
- one is to promote algae uptake.
- Promote pod growth
- Food for your fish / inhabitant for your main tank community.

1 - Depending on Refugium of it purpose. Refugium will have the following
[some or all]: algae / LS / Light
2 - All Protein Skimmer will remove nutrient. It depend how efficient for
that particular model.

Shooting for 10X water movement is good.
Remove BIOS-Ball.
Why you say PS is a joke? AquaClear Pro that come with the W/D is simply not
efficient model [IMO]. You just need a good PS. Since I do not have or
notice the size of your tank - try Romora Pro if you have like 55 or 29
like Marc.
Here is his review regarding Romora -
http://reefcentral.com/modules.php?s=&name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=17
Or simply go to his site. There plenty of information you can check out.
http://www.melevsreef.com/links.html


CapFusion,...

[PaulB]

I got a wet/dry with my first tank, and ended up taking the balls out and
using it for a sump.

The Aqua Clear skimmer is alright if you clean it often.

Try reading the marine articles here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/











"John D. Maag" > wrote in message
om...
> OK, RODI is a given, Sump, Live Rock, Live Sand are a given. I
consistently
> see this group promoting a Refugium so here are my questions:
>
> 1) What item(s) is/are contained in the refugium and what is/are their
> functions?
> 2) What about protein skimmer removing "nutrients" from the water
>
> On water movement I have been told to shoot for 10X. Is this a some is
good
> more is beter thing. Also along this line, I currently have a W/D and have
> been told to do 4X just for it although personally I think I wasted my
> money. The bio balls are questionable ( I have LR) the protein skimmer is
a
> joke (Came with it - Aqua clear Pro)
>
> > Sump
> > Refugium
> > Protein Skimmer
> > LR
> > LS
> > Good Current 6X min. water circulation
> > Good amount of janitoral crew.
> > RO/DI
> >
> > This should deal with algae problem
> >
> > CapFusion,...
> >
> >
>
>
>

[John D. Maag]

>> Why you say PS is a joke? AquaClear Pro that come with the W/D is simply
not
> efficient model [IMO]. You just need a good PS.

I say the Ps is a joke because of same as you. It is just not very
effective. I paid $$$ for this arrangement and once you subtract the bio
balls and PS I paid a lot of money for a small sump. If I had known thern
what I know now I could have taken the $500 (LFS over charged me) I could
have gotten a better sump and PS.

To answer your question I have a 75g now. If I get a new PS it will likely
be a Euro Reef. But as for my original Post. I am more interested in getting
it better for the bigger tank.

What specific plant life, etc do you put in the refugium. I have seen what
Marc uses but I am deeply concerned about it going a sexual and poluting the
tank.

[Marc Levenson]

Then you need to use what I use. Cheatomorpha does not go
sexual and does not pollute a tank.

Marc


John D. Maag wrote:

> What specific plant life, etc do you put in the refugium. I have seen what
> Marc uses but I am deeply concerned about it going a sexual and poluting the
> tank.
>
>

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[John D. Maag]

My apologies. I thought you were using Caulerpa racemosa or some such. I
cannot find this plant (Cheatomorpha ) on any of the onlne stores I know
about (Pet solutions, Live Aquaria, Marine Depot Live). Do you have a
source?

There are two reasons I can think of plant life accomplishes in the Sump

A) pulling nutrients algae would feed on (PS Not needed?)
B) introducing O2 to the water.

Can you comment on this. Also, What is your typical DO (Disoved Oxygen )
level? Mine is running 6 PPM which seems to be normal but I am curious if
yours is significantly higher.


"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Then you need to use what I use. Cheatomorpha does not go
> sexual and does not pollute a tank.
>
> Marc
\

[Marc Levenson]

Hi John,

I used to keep Caulerpa, but once I got some Cheato, I never
looked back. A club member ordered some online months ago,
and I've grown and thinned it out so often. Both of my
refugiums are virtually packed with dense growth.

I still skim the heck out of my tanks.

I do not have a device to test ORP, sorry.

Marc


John D. Maag wrote:
> My apologies. I thought you were using Caulerpa racemosa or some such. I
> cannot find this plant (Cheatomorpha ) on any of the onlne stores I know
> about (Pet solutions, Live Aquaria, Marine Depot Live). Do you have a
> source?
>
> There are two reasons I can think of plant life accomplishes in the Sump
>
> A) pulling nutrients algae would feed on (PS Not needed?)
> B) introducing O2 to the water.
>
> Can you comment on this. Also, What is your typical DO (Disoved Oxygen )
> level? Mine is running 6 PPM which seems to be normal but I am curious if
> yours is significantly higher.
>
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Then you need to use what I use. Cheatomorpha does not go
>>sexual and does not pollute a tank.
>>
>>Marc
>
> \
>
>

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[Dan Norgard]

I got some Cheato a while back and it just fell apart and 'rotted'...what's
the secret?
Dan


"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
. com...
Hi John,

I used to keep Caulerpa, but once I got some Cheato, I never
looked back. A club member ordered some online months ago,
and I've grown and thinned it out so often. Both of my
refugiums are virtually packed with dense growth.

I still skim the heck out of my tanks.

I do not have a device to test ORP, sorry.

Marc


John D. Maag wrote:
> My apologies. I thought you were using Caulerpa racemosa or some such. I
> cannot find this plant (Cheatomorpha ) on any of the onlne stores I know
> about (Pet solutions, Live Aquaria, Marine Depot Live). Do you have a
> source?
>
> There are two reasons I can think of plant life accomplishes in the Sump
>
> A) pulling nutrients algae would feed on (PS Not needed?)
> B) introducing O2 to the water.
>
> Can you comment on this. Also, What is your typical DO (Disoved Oxygen )
> level? Mine is running 6 PPM which seems to be normal but I am curious if
> yours is significantly higher.
>
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Then you need to use what I use. Cheatomorpha does not go
>>sexual and does not pollute a tank.
>>
>>Marc
>
> \
>
>

--
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http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
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[Marc Levenson]

My guess is that you need stable water, temp, and decent
lighting:

http://www.melevsreef.com/fuge_bulb.html

Also, when you put it in, if it is dense pull it apart
sligthly to encourage growth.

Marc


Dan Norgard wrote:
> I got some Cheato a while back and it just fell apart and 'rotted'...what's
> the secret?
> Dan
>
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> . com...
> Hi John,
>
> I used to keep Caulerpa, but once I got some Cheato, I never
> looked back. A club member ordered some online months ago,
> and I've grown and thinned it out so often. Both of my
> refugiums are virtually packed with dense growth.
>
> I still skim the heck out of my tanks.
>
> I do not have a device to test ORP, sorry.
>
> Marc
>
>
> John D. Maag wrote:
>
>>My apologies. I thought you were using Caulerpa racemosa or some such. I
>>cannot find this plant (Cheatomorpha ) on any of the onlne stores I know
>>about (Pet solutions, Live Aquaria, Marine Depot Live). Do you have a
>>source?
>>
>>There are two reasons I can think of plant life accomplishes in the Sump
>>
>>A) pulling nutrients algae would feed on (PS Not needed?)
>>B) introducing O2 to the water.
>>
>> Can you comment on this. Also, What is your typical DO (Disoved Oxygen )
>>level? Mine is running 6 PPM which seems to be normal but I am curious if
>>yours is significantly higher.
>>
>>
>>"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>>>Then you need to use what I use. Cheatomorpha does not go
>>>sexual and does not pollute a tank.
>>>
>>>Marc
>>
>>\
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Personal Page:
> http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

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[John D. Maag]

Marc, Is it spelled Chaetomorpha and look like "hair". If so I found some on
Ebay for $20 including shipping. Not cheap but what are you gonna do.

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
. com...
> Hi John,
>
> I used to keep Caulerpa, but once I got some Cheato, I never
> looked back. A club member ordered some online months ago,
> and I've grown and thinned it out so often. Both of my
> refugiums are virtually packed with dense growth.

[Marc Levenson]

That looks right to me. Here's a picture of it, if you
ignore the hitchhiker. :)

http://melevsreef.com/id/cheato.html

Marc


John D. Maag wrote:

> Marc, Is it spelled Chaetomorpha and look like "hair". If so I found some on
> Ebay for $20 including shipping. Not cheap but what are you gonna do.
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> . com...
>
>>Hi John,
>>
>>I used to keep Caulerpa, but once I got some Cheato, I never
>>looked back. A club member ordered some online months ago,
>>and I've grown and thinned it out so often. Both of my
>>refugiums are virtually packed with dense growth.
>
>
>

--
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http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
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[CapFusion]

"John D. Maag" > wrote in message
om...
> >> Why you say PS is a joke? AquaClear Pro that come with the W/D is
simply
> not
> > efficient model [IMO]. You just need a good PS.
>
> I say the Ps is a joke because of same as you. It is just not very
> effective. I paid $$$ for this arrangement and once you subtract the bio
> balls and PS I paid a lot of money for a small sump. If I had known thern
> what I know now I could have taken the $500 (LFS over charged me) I could
> have gotten a better sump and PS.
>

If you believe I am pulling your leg / joking - then jus tell me not to
reply to you. I am just giving my ¼ cent of a penny woth idea / experience
to you. Nothing more. I to have those PS/Sump Combo from miracle product
when I started out and thought it would be good to have and at the same time
I might save some buck. During that time, I did not know about this NG to
guide me but from some other local reefer. By the time I find this NG, I
learn alot by lurk around for information and ask question. One of my first
question was the PS from amircle that I ask Jimmy Chen, he answer me
straight out - JUNK - Get better PS. [not exact wording].

> To answer your question I have a 75g now. If I get a new PS it will
likely
> be a Euro Reef. But as for my original Post. I am more interested in
getting
> it better for the bigger tank.
>

EuroReef PS is consider a good PS.

> What specific plant life, etc do you put in the refugium. I have seen what
> Marc uses but I am deeply concerned about it going a sexual and poluting
the
> tank.
>

I use all-sort of algae, that also include what Marc have. I dumped alot of
algae to one large chamber that specificly hold algae. Which ever outgrow
each other, that algae will be use to obsorb nutrient intake. I have alot of
shrimp [peppermint mainly] / crab / snail ... etc... that will try to keep
algae in check.

CapFusion,...

[Marc Levenson]

Absolutely true. I had one briefly, and it did very little.
Switching over two an Aqua C EV-200 made a HUGE difference.

Marc


CapFusion wrote:

> If you believe I am pulling your leg / joking - then jus tell me not to
> reply to you. I am just giving my ¼ cent of a penny woth idea / experience
> to you. Nothing more. I to have those PS/Sump Combo from miracle product
> when I started out and thought it would be good to have and at the same time
> I might save some buck. During that time, I did not know about this NG to
> guide me but from some other local reefer. By the time I find this NG, I
> learn alot by lurk around for information and ask question. One of my first
> question was the PS from amircle that I ask Jimmy Chen, he answer me
> straight out - JUNK - Get better PS. [not exact wording].


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