Unexplained fish deaths

[Bill B]

Hi,

Have a 55 gallon FOWLR. Been running a couple years. I have always had
problems stocking fish. At first I thought it was just my rushing things
too much, but now I don't know.

Have about 40 lbs of live rock. 2" crushed corral substrate. Nitrates and
Nitrites are zero. Ammonia is zero. PH is 8.2. SG 1.024. Switched to RO
water a year ago thinking it may be something in the water causing problems.
It did clear up the nusciance algaes and greatly improved the appearance of
the tank. Seaclown 150 skimmer, which despite reports here to the contrary,
seems to work very well for me, I get a cup full of goo in less than a week.
Monthly 25% water changes.

Urchins, snails, slugs, crabs, etc., that hitchiked in on the rock are
multipling and thriving. (Anyone need a couple largish 3" black urchins?
Been fun watching them grow from little specks to the beasties they are
becoming.) Lots of Halimeda that I have to continually trim back. Lots of
sponges and coraline algaes.

I have added several fish, one and two at a time over the last year or so,
and they have, except two, suddenly died after one - three weeks. Have a
clown fish and yellow tang that are both well over a year old, active and
growing well.

Latest deaths were a Blue Tang 1.5", and a Pearlscale Butterfly 2". Spent 2
hours dripping water into a bucket with them, changing it out periodically.
Put them in and they were healthy and happy. Active and eating, all
appearances normal. After three weeks, I fed them in the AM, looked good.
Both were dead when I got home from work. The clown and tang seemed to bond
OK with them, never did see any fighting and the four started hanging
together after a couple days.

Have two LFS and neither is very good. Geared more to mass sales than
customer assistance. Hire only college kids that seem more interested in
flirting with the girls that come in than learning about what they are
selling. When I bought the last two fish, they had just sold a lion fish,
complete with a new tank and set up to another person in the store just
ahead of me.

I'm wondering if both stores are getting fish that were collected with
cyanide, as it seems to fit the pattern of deaths I have been having. Or is
it something else???? Any mail order houses that you recommend? I've heard
mixed reports on Fosters & Smith.

Bill B.

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, 'WOW! What A
Ride!" ..Unknown

[Pszemol]

"Bill B" > wrote in message ...
> Urchins, snails, slugs, crabs, etc., that hitchiked in on the rock are
> multipling and thriving. (Anyone need a couple largish 3" black urchins?
> Been fun watching them grow from little specks to the beasties they are
> becoming.)

This is interesting part I let myself to cut and ask about:
Have you actually observed urchins, snails, crabs *multiplying*,
or they simply arrived with live rock as juveniles and grow up
in your tank to adults? If so, what urchins are they - black, you mean
Diadema spp urchin? What crabs/snails exactly do multiply in your tank?

What kind of pumps/filters/skimmers do you use? They usually shred
planktonic larvae of these animals into pieces, so that nothing survives
in our tanks, even after successful spawning events reported occasionally.

> Active and eating, all appearances normal. After three weeks, I fed
> them in the AM, looked good. Both were dead when I got home from work.
[...]
> I'm wondering if both stores are getting fish that were collected with
> cyanide, as it seems to fit the pattern of deaths I have been having.
> Or is it something else????

I would say it must be something else - what are the odds both fish
die in the same 8-hours window, after three weeks of doing just fine?
You know, it is small chanse to win jackpot in Lotto, but to win
twice in a row is almost impossible... More than one fish dying within
a couple of hours would be a sign of something wrong rather hapening in
your tank. Any fluctuations in temperature? Do you keep your air-condition
working during the day or you turn it off? Rise in temperature could
strip the water out of oxygen and cause fatal conditions for all fish...
Simlarly, something like a faulty electric device maybe the culprit.
Hard to find a reasonable cause of death for two fish the same time.

> Any mail order houses that you recommend? I've heard
> mixed reports on Fosters & Smith.

I have ordered from them many inverts and no unsolved problems.

[Bob]

Hard to say what it might be. Every fish that I have bought from PetSmart
has died within a few weeks. Might be cynide? I buy most of my fish from a
local privately owned LFS and have never had one die. He claims that none of
his suppliers use cynide. He has visited them several times to see how they
do their collecting.
"Bill B" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Have a 55 gallon FOWLR. Been running a couple years. I have always had
> problems stocking fish. At first I thought it was just my rushing things
> too much, but now I don't know.
>
> Have about 40 lbs of live rock. 2" crushed corral substrate. Nitrates
and
> Nitrites are zero. Ammonia is zero. PH is 8.2. SG 1.024. Switched to
RO
> water a year ago thinking it may be something in the water causing
problems.
> It did clear up the nusciance algaes and greatly improved the appearance
of
> the tank. Seaclown 150 skimmer, which despite reports here to the
contrary,
> seems to work very well for me, I get a cup full of goo in less than a
week.
> Monthly 25% water changes.
>
> Urchins, snails, slugs, crabs, etc., that hitchiked in on the rock are
> multipling and thriving. (Anyone need a couple largish 3" black urchins?
> Been fun watching them grow from little specks to the beasties they are
> becoming.) Lots of Halimeda that I have to continually trim back. Lots
of
> sponges and coraline algaes.
>
> I have added several fish, one and two at a time over the last year or so,
> and they have, except two, suddenly died after one - three weeks. Have a
> clown fish and yellow tang that are both well over a year old, active and
> growing well.
>
> Latest deaths were a Blue Tang 1.5", and a Pearlscale Butterfly 2". Spent
2
> hours dripping water into a bucket with them, changing it out
periodically.
> Put them in and they were healthy and happy. Active and eating, all
> appearances normal. After three weeks, I fed them in the AM, looked good.
> Both were dead when I got home from work. The clown and tang seemed to
bond
> OK with them, never did see any fighting and the four started hanging
> together after a couple days.
>
> Have two LFS and neither is very good. Geared more to mass sales than
> customer assistance. Hire only college kids that seem more interested in
> flirting with the girls that come in than learning about what they are
> selling. When I bought the last two fish, they had just sold a lion fish,
> complete with a new tank and set up to another person in the store just
> ahead of me.
>
> I'm wondering if both stores are getting fish that were collected with
> cyanide, as it seems to fit the pattern of deaths I have been having. Or
is
> it something else???? Any mail order houses that you recommend? I've
heard
> mixed reports on Fosters & Smith.
>
> Bill B.
>
> "Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
> safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
broadside,
> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, 'WOW! What A
> Ride!" ..Unknown
>
>

[Bill B]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "Bill B" > wrote in message
...
> > Urchins, snails, slugs, crabs, etc., that hitchiked in on the rock are
> > multipling and thriving. (Anyone need a couple largish 3" black urchins?
> > Been fun watching them grow from little specks to the beasties they are
> > becoming.)
>
> This is interesting part I let myself to cut and ask about:
> Have you actually observed urchins, snails, crabs *multiplying*,
> or they simply arrived with live rock as juveniles and grow up
> in your tank to adults? If so, what urchins are they - black, you mean
> Diadema spp urchin? What crabs/snails exactly do multiply in your tank?
>
> What kind of pumps/filters/skimmers do you use? They usually shred
> planktonic larvae of these animals into pieces, so that nothing survives
> in our tanks, even after successful spawning events reported occasionally.
>

Urchins - have two. One came in on my first rock, noticed him about a month
later, well under an inch. The second, same story, third rock six months
later. Both are about 3", black.

Snails - numerous. All hitchikers. Most look like little flat circus
tents. Can't remove them without killing them. Also several cone shaped
snails that are about 1"x1".

Slugs - hundreds. I go to work at 0400. The room lights reveal virtually
the entire front surface of the tank to be covered. Itty Bitty to some a
couple inches long. Don't see but maybe one or two during the day.

Sorry I don't have good names for any of the above, can't find a good
reference for critters. Have some decent books, but they focus almost
entirely on the fish.

No new rock, subsrtate or other changes that would destabilize things in
well over a year.

Seaclone 150 skimmer, works well for me after opening up the venturi.
Center of tank.
Marineland 150 powerhead, one end
Magnum 350 canister with just a micron filter at the other end. Filter is
changed when the flow slows, about once a week.


> > Active and eating, all appearances normal. After three weeks, I fed
> > them in the AM, looked good. Both were dead when I got home from work.
> [...]
> > I'm wondering if both stores are getting fish that were collected with
> > cyanide, as it seems to fit the pattern of deaths I have been having.
> > Or is it something else????
>
> I would say it must be something else - what are the odds both fish
> die in the same 8-hours window, after three weeks of doing just fine?
> You know, it is small chanse to win jackpot in Lotto, but to win
> twice in a row is almost impossible... More than one fish dying within
> a couple of hours would be a sign of something wrong rather hapening in
> your tank. Any fluctuations in temperature? Do you keep your air-condition
> working during the day or you turn it off? Rise in temperature could
> strip the water out of oxygen and cause fatal conditions for all fish...
> Simlarly, something like a faulty electric device maybe the culprit.
> Hard to find a reasonable cause of death for two fish the same time.
>

Temp is stable, tank's in the basement, no direct sunlight, no drafts.
Stuck my good voltmeter in the water and to a good ground and have no
leakage.

If anyone is in the Loveland/Ft Collins area and wants to drop by and tell
me where I'm screwing up???

> > Any mail order houses that you recommend? I've heard
> > mixed reports on Fosters & Smith.
>
> I have ordered from them many inverts and no unsolved problems.