return pump

[Amy Palmieri]

Anyone have a solid suggestion on a return pump
for a 72 gallon bowfront reef? The return flows through
a chiller before the display, an the single overflow
dumps into a refugium. I also have a skimmer that I think would work more
efficiently with greater turnover.
I currently use a Surge 6000. Flow rate- (870 gph/3300 lph) max. Head-
(13'8"/4.3m). Only 1 year old and ready to kick the bucket. If you've never
heard of this pump Its only about 50 bucks and seems to follow the fail rate
of a Rio.
T.I.A., DR

[BSackamano]

I feed my 72G display and 12G fuge with a Mag-18. It's wide open and I get
700gph through the overflow and maybe 100 or 200gph through the fuge.

"Amy Palmieri" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone have a solid suggestion on a return pump
> for a 72 gallon bowfront reef? The return flows through
> a chiller before the display, an the single overflow
> dumps into a refugium. I also have a skimmer that I think would work more
> efficiently with greater turnover.
> I currently use a Surge 6000. Flow rate- (870 gph/3300 lph) max. Head-
> (13'8"/4.3m). Only 1 year old and ready to kick the bucket. If you've
never
> heard of this pump Its only about 50 bucks and seems to follow the fail
rate
> of a Rio.
> T.I.A., DR
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

If that is the case, your plumbing is too small. For a Mag
18, if the outlets are 3/4" like the Mag 9.5 and 12, you
should be using 1.5" plumbing for maximum flow.

Marc


BSackamano wrote:

> I feed my 72G display and 12G fuge with a Mag-18. It's wide open and I get
> 700gph through the overflow and maybe 100 or 200gph through the fuge.


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[BSackamano]

Yes, I've upgraded return pumps twice since I did the plumbing with 1" pipe.
Next time I'll go with 1.5", but for now, my overflow is already maxed out.

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
om...
> If that is the case, your plumbing is too small. For a Mag
> 18, if the outlets are 3/4" like the Mag 9.5 and 12, you
> should be using 1.5" plumbing for maximum flow.
>
> Marc
>
>
> BSackamano wrote:
>
> > I feed my 72G display and 12G fuge with a Mag-18. It's wide open and I
get
> > 700gph through the overflow and maybe 100 or 200gph through the fuge.
>
>
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> Personal Page:
> http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
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>

[John D. Maag]

Mine is the same way. I have an Oceanic and their standard return is 3/4" I
believe this to be too small. I talked to an Oceanic guy for an hour today.
They believe you can get 1200 GPH through 3/4". I cannot see it personally.
I have a Mag 9.5 and I get 360 GPH but have a chiller and probably 12 feet
of plumbing.


"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
om...
> If that is the case, your plumbing is too small. For a Mag
> 18, if the outlets are 3/4" like the Mag 9.5 and 12, you
> should be using 1.5" plumbing for maximum flow.
>
> Marc

[Marc Levenson]

That's crazy. Maybe you guys are referring to different
pipes. The drain lines should be 1", the returns are 3/4".
(A return is the water returning to the tank). If you
have two 1" drains, you should be able to drain 2 x 600gph,
or 1200 gph.

Marc


John D. Maag wrote:

> Mine is the same way. I have an Oceanic and their standard return is 3/4" I
> believe this to be too small. I talked to an Oceanic guy for an hour today.
> They believe you can get 1200 GPH through 3/4". I cannot see it personally.
> I have a Mag 9.5 and I get 360 GPH but have a chiller and probably 12 feet
> of plumbing.
>
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>>If that is the case, your plumbing is too small. For a Mag
>>18, if the outlets are 3/4" like the Mag 9.5 and 12, you
>>should be using 1.5" plumbing for maximum flow.
>>
>>Marc
>
>
>

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[John D. Maag]

It sounded unbelievable to me too but I assure you we were talking about
return lines. Oceanic is convinced their 3/4" return is large enough. As I
have mentioned before I am looking at getting a 215G but it appears I need
to do 10X water turn over to sump. That is when he told me I was fine
because I could get 2x1200 GPH out of the returns for 2400GPH. It even went
as far as him making me call a business in DFW he said was doing it (turning
over 1K GPH with 3/4"). I called them and they are using 1" :)

I had to beg them to look into it. He assured me he would bring it up in a
meeting (to study flows). I am still trying to figure out how big to make
the drains and returns.

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
m...
> That's crazy. Maybe you guys are referring to different
> pipes. The drain lines should be 1", the returns are 3/4".
> (A return is the water returning to the tank). If you
> have two 1" drains, you should be able to drain 2 x 600gph,
> or 1200 gph.
>
> Marc

[Marc Levenson]

John,

I just set up a 280g reef tank and I have 1.5" drains (two
of them). The Ampmaster 3000 puts out so much flow that
they barely keep up. My returns are 1", btw. I ran 1.5"
from the pump to the base of the bulkhead, where it reduces
to 1" as it goes up into the tank's plumbing.

Marc


John D. Maag wrote:
> It sounded unbelievable to me too but I assure you we were talking about
> return lines. Oceanic is convinced their 3/4" return is large enough. As I
> have mentioned before I am looking at getting a 215G but it appears I need
> to do 10X water turn over to sump. That is when he told me I was fine
> because I could get 2x1200 GPH out of the returns for 2400GPH. It even went
> as far as him making me call a business in DFW he said was doing it (turning
> over 1K GPH with 3/4"). I called them and they are using 1" :)
>
> I had to beg them to look into it. He assured me he would bring it up in a
> meeting (to study flows). I am still trying to figure out how big to make
> the drains and returns.
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>That's crazy. Maybe you guys are referring to different
>>pipes. The drain lines should be 1", the returns are 3/4".
>> (A return is the water returning to the tank). If you
>>have two 1" drains, you should be able to drain 2 x 600gph,
>>or 1200 gph.
>>
>>Marc
>
>
>

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[John D. Maag]

I think that is the perfect setup. I have done so much studying on flow
rates I am convinced the standard 1" supply and 3/4" return used by All
Glass and Oceanic is too small.

I have seen the pictures of your tank. Very nice. I am offically jeolous.
Did the tank come with those holes or did you do some work. I am curious if
you cut them because I am told you cannot touch tempered glass but you're
pretty handy :)

How did you arrive at those sizes? Are you a student also? I am nowhere near
you on website design but here is what I have been working on.
http://www.maagsreef.com/flowrates.html

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
m...
> John,
>
> I just set up a 280g reef tank and I have 1.5" drains (two
> of them). The Ampmaster 3000 puts out so much flow that
> they barely keep up. My returns are 1", btw. I ran 1.5"
> from the pump to the base of the bulkhead, where it reduces
> to 1" as it goes up into the tank's plumbing.
>
> Marc

[Marc Levenson]

Hi John,

The tank was drilled like that and I just plumbed it as it
needed to be. Guess what? That return pump is the
Ampmaster 4700, not the 3000! So you can estimate my flow
being between 3100 and 3600 gph even with a few elbows
incorporated.

I'm not a student, not in a long time. College back in the
80's...

Nice chart. Are these numbers all based on a mathematical
equation you've been utilizing?

Marc


John D. Maag wrote:
> I think that is the perfect setup. I have done so much studying on flow
> rates I am convinced the standard 1" supply and 3/4" return used by All
> Glass and Oceanic is too small.
>
> I have seen the pictures of your tank. Very nice. I am offically jeolous.
> Did the tank come with those holes or did you do some work. I am curious if
> you cut them because I am told you cannot touch tempered glass but you're
> pretty handy :)
>
> How did you arrive at those sizes? Are you a student also? I am nowhere near
> you on website design but here is what I have been working on.
> http://www.maagsreef.com/flowrates.html
-------------
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http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
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[John D. Maag]

I got the numbers from Iwaki. They in turn got them from somewhere else. I
wish I had a formula because there is one cell missing.
What's nice about it is it tells you kind of where you need to be plumbing
wise. It is using this table is when I came to the conclusion 3/4" returns
were not large enough.

BTW, I have been told Dolphin makes good pumps. What is your experience?
There are considerably less expensive than Iwaki and can move more water.

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
m...
> Hi John,
>
> The tank was drilled like that and I just plumbed it as it
> needed to be. Guess what? That return pump is the
> Ampmaster 4700, not the 3000! So you can estimate my flow
> being between 3100 and 3600 gph even with a few elbows
> incorporated.
>
> I'm not a student, not in a long time. College back in the
> 80's...
>
> Nice chart. Are these numbers all based on a mathematical
> equation you've been utilizing?
>
> Marc
>
>
> John D. Maag wrote:
> > I think that is the perfect setup. I have done so much studying on flow
> > rates I am convinced the standard 1" supply and 3/4" return used by All
> > Glass and Oceanic is too small.
> >
> > I have seen the pictures of your tank. Very nice. I am offically
jeolous.
> > Did the tank come with those holes or did you do some work. I am curious
if
> > you cut them because I am told you cannot touch tempered glass but
you're
> > pretty handy :)
> >
> > How did you arrive at those sizes? Are you a student also? I am nowhere
near
> > you on website design but here is what I have been working on.
> > http://www.maagsreef.com/flowrates.html
> -------------
> Personal Page:
> http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>

[Marc Levenson]

I don't have any experience to share quite yet. I've only
had my Ampmaster 4700 running for about 2 weeks so far, as
it came with the tank. I looked up how much a back-up would
cost, and was a big shocked how much it would run. $283!

I might get an equivalent Sequence pump, because I've heard
lots of good feedback on that brand.

Marc


John D. Maag wrote:
> I got the numbers from Iwaki. They in turn got them from somewhere else. I
> wish I had a formula because there is one cell missing.
> What's nice about it is it tells you kind of where you need to be plumbing
> wise. It is using this table is when I came to the conclusion 3/4" returns
> were not large enough.
>
> BTW, I have been told Dolphin makes good pumps. What is your experience?
> There are considerably less expensive than Iwaki and can move more water.
>


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check out http://reefcentral.com do a search for dolphin ampmaster.
I decited to go with a sequence.
hope this helps