DSB not processing nitrate (sorry, little long)

[BSackamano]

Please see if this makes sense to you. I have the following setup:
* 72gal tank with 120lbs Fiji LR, 5" DSB, yellow tang, percula clown, a few
soft coral (mushrooms, zooanthids, xenia, leather)
* 15gal sump with EV-180
* 12gal fuge with grape caulerpa and chaetomorpha (caulerpa growing well
under 55W PC, chaeto not so well).

I have always had serious nitrate problems with this setup. Before the DSB
and fuge were added (previously about 1/4" crushed coral in tank) nitrates
according to Aquarium Pharmacuticals kit were 40-80-160 (colors all look
this same in this range). About 10 months ago I added 170lbs of southdown
and 30lbs LS and the fuge. Now a couple months ago, the DSB seemed to be
maturing - there are lots of air bubbles against the glass, bristle worms
everywhere, and amphipods crawling all over the rocks and sand at night, but
nitrate still 40+. I decided to do water changes like never before; I did
12 20gal changes (20-25%) in 14 days (got lazy a couple of nights), fed VERY
lightly, and got down to 0 nitrate! By then my tang was getting thin so I
started feeding him a small square of algae daily and in 2 weeks, 40+
nitrate! At that point, I returned the tang to the LFS. NOW, I have since
added another clown (still only 2 fish!) and the DSB LOOKS like it's working
but of course the nitrates are high......????????????????

I've probably forgotten some important details, but here are a few more
thoughts. I do a 20gal water change every two weeks (or sometimes daily..).
I have no mechanical filtration (only LR, LS, and EV-180). I clean the
EV-180 every water change, or 1-2 times a week, which ever is sooner. I
still feed VERY lightly, maybe 1/4 cube of frozen shrimp and a dash of
pellets per week. I use RODI from a Kent Maxima. I've double checked the
nitrate with a Salifert kit (it's high) and tested the fresh SW (0 nitrate).
I have pretty good circulation with only an occasional light cyano problem.
Ammonia and nitrite are 0 (Aqarium Pharm), SG 1.0225 (hydrometer), temp
81-83F (digital), pH 8.3-8.5 (pinpoint), alk 3.8meg/L (salifert), CA 450
(salifert), and I top-off with a nilsen reactor.

Well thanks for reading and please let me know if you have any ideas, JJJ.

[Harald]

You don't need to worry too much about the nitrates. The DSB will eventually
bring the numbers down, but if you only have fish. then a nitrate level even
in the 50 range won't harm anything. Give it time, and the nitrates will
drop.

hth

--
Harald
130 g Skimmerless SW Tank
290 lbs/6" DSB
70 lbs LR
3 B/G Chromis, 1 Tomato Clown, 1 Foxface, 1 Blue Regal, 1 Cleaner Wrasse, 2
Firefish, 2 soft corals, 1 Fire shrimp, 2 Red Seastars.


33 gal Skimmerless SW Nano
80 lbs/6" DSB
39 lbs LR,
1 - Yellow Wrasse, 1 Bangaii Cardinal

[Simon O'Keeffe]

I say let it go too.
You've done everything right up to this stage and often patience will
get you where you want to be when nothing else does.
How old is the setup?
If you really want 0 nitrates upgrade the light over the algae tank, 55w
PC is barely enough to keep stuff alive. A 250w MH is more like what the
algae wants. I personally use a 400w HPS but my tanks are slightly
larger than yours (sys volume approx 1000l).
I'm, sure the extra light wil help as will the DSB etc over time.
Good luck
Simon


BSackamano wrote:

>Please see if this makes sense to you. I have the following setup:
>* 72gal tank with 120lbs Fiji LR, 5" DSB, yellow tang, percula clown, a few
>soft coral (mushrooms, zooanthids, xenia, leather)
>* 15gal sump with EV-180
>* 12gal fuge with grape caulerpa and chaetomorpha (caulerpa growing well
>under 55W PC, chaeto not so well).
>
>I have always had serious nitrate problems with this setup. Before the DSB
>and fuge were added (previously about 1/4" crushed coral in tank) nitrates
>according to Aquarium Pharmacuticals kit were 40-80-160 (colors all look
>this same in this range). About 10 months ago I added 170lbs of southdown
>and 30lbs LS and the fuge. Now a couple months ago, the DSB seemed to be
>maturing - there are lots of air bubbles against the glass, bristle worms
>everywhere, and amphipods crawling all over the rocks and sand at night, but
>nitrate still 40+. I decided to do water changes like never before; I did
>12 20gal changes (20-25%) in 14 days (got lazy a couple of nights), fed VERY
>lightly, and got down to 0 nitrate! By then my tang was getting thin so I
>started feeding him a small square of algae daily and in 2 weeks, 40+
>nitrate! At that point, I returned the tang to the LFS. NOW, I have since
>added another clown (still only 2 fish!) and the DSB LOOKS like it's working
>but of course the nitrates are high......????????????????
>
>I've probably forgotten some important details, but here are a few more
>thoughts. I do a 20gal water change every two weeks (or sometimes daily..).
>I have no mechanical filtration (only LR, LS, and EV-180). I clean the
>EV-180 every water change, or 1-2 times a week, which ever is sooner. I
>still feed VERY lightly, maybe 1/4 cube of frozen shrimp and a dash of
>pellets per week. I use RODI from a Kent Maxima. I've double checked the
>nitrate with a Salifert kit (it's high) and tested the fresh SW (0 nitrate).
>I have pretty good circulation with only an occasional light cyano problem.
>Ammonia and nitrite are 0 (Aqarium Pharm), SG 1.0225 (hydrometer), temp
>81-83F (digital), pH 8.3-8.5 (pinpoint), alk 3.8meg/L (salifert), CA 450
>(salifert), and I top-off with a nilsen reactor.
>
>Well thanks for reading and please let me know if you have any ideas, JJJ.
>
>
>
>

[BSackamano]

I hear you both. I'm trying to be patient, and I was prepared to wait 6
months to see the benefit of the DSB, but now nearly a year into it, I'm
starting to wonder. The tank was setup with crushed coral for a little over
a year before adding sand. And about the refugium light, everything is
under the stand, so that's all I could squeeze in there. If I ever setup my
dedicated "fish room" however, things will be different. Thanks again..


"Simon O'Keeffe" > wrote in message
...
> I say let it go too.
> You've done everything right up to this stage and often patience will
> get you where you want to be when nothing else does.
> How old is the setup?
> If you really want 0 nitrates upgrade the light over the algae tank, 55w
> PC is barely enough to keep stuff alive. A 250w MH is more like what the
> algae wants. I personally use a 400w HPS but my tanks are slightly
> larger than yours (sys volume approx 1000l).
> I'm, sure the extra light wil help as will the DSB etc over time.
> Good luck
> Simon
>
>
> BSackamano wrote:
>
> >Please see if this makes sense to you. I have the following setup:
> >* 72gal tank with 120lbs Fiji LR, 5" DSB, yellow tang, percula clown, a
few
> >soft coral (mushrooms, zooanthids, xenia, leather)
> >* 15gal sump with EV-180
> >* 12gal fuge with grape caulerpa and chaetomorpha (caulerpa growing well
> >under 55W PC, chaeto not so well).
> >
> >I have always had serious nitrate problems with this setup. Before the
DSB
> >and fuge were added (previously about 1/4" crushed coral in tank)
nitrates
> >according to Aquarium Pharmacuticals kit were 40-80-160 (colors all look
> >this same in this range). About 10 months ago I added 170lbs of
southdown
> >and 30lbs LS and the fuge. Now a couple months ago, the DSB seemed to be
> >maturing - there are lots of air bubbles against the glass, bristle worms
> >everywhere, and amphipods crawling all over the rocks and sand at night,
but
> >nitrate still 40+. I decided to do water changes like never before; I
did
> >12 20gal changes (20-25%) in 14 days (got lazy a couple of nights), fed
VERY
> >lightly, and got down to 0 nitrate! By then my tang was getting thin so
I
> >started feeding him a small square of algae daily and in 2 weeks, 40+
> >nitrate! At that point, I returned the tang to the LFS. NOW, I have
since
> >added another clown (still only 2 fish!) and the DSB LOOKS like it's
working
> >but of course the nitrates are high......????????????????
> >
> >I've probably forgotten some important details, but here are a few more
> >thoughts. I do a 20gal water change every two weeks (or sometimes
daily..).
> >I have no mechanical filtration (only LR, LS, and EV-180). I clean the
> >EV-180 every water change, or 1-2 times a week, which ever is sooner. I
> >still feed VERY lightly, maybe 1/4 cube of frozen shrimp and a dash of
> >pellets per week. I use RODI from a Kent Maxima. I've double checked
the
> >nitrate with a Salifert kit (it's high) and tested the fresh SW (0
nitrate).
> >I have pretty good circulation with only an occasional light cyano
problem.
> >Ammonia and nitrite are 0 (Aqarium Pharm), SG 1.0225 (hydrometer), temp
> >81-83F (digital), pH 8.3-8.5 (pinpoint), alk 3.8meg/L (salifert), CA 450
> >(salifert), and I top-off with a nilsen reactor.
> >
> >Well thanks for reading and please let me know if you have any ideas,
JJJ.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[skozzy]

> Please see if this makes sense to you. I have the following setup:
> * 72gal tank with 120lbs Fiji LR, 5" DSB, yellow tang, percula clown, a
few

Not sure totaly, but I remember reading something a while back that said the
bacteria that grows in the DSB can only grow there if the grain size of the
sand is what suits it. I may be wrong, or I might be thinking of worms ?

[CapFusion]

"skozzy" > wrote in message
u...
>
> Not sure totaly, but I remember reading something a while back that said
the
> bacteria that grows in the DSB can only grow there if the grain size of
the
> sand is what suits it. I may be wrong, or I might be thinking of worms ?
>

Gain size do matter. Lesser oxygen. Gain size should be fine.
The bacteria live in where have less oxygen that break down nitrate. These
bacteria normally live near 4 in or so in depth. That one of the reason why
4in is minium recommend / suggest depth. I see and hear poeple say they have
good result less then 4in.

Worm will clean the "fine sand" and remove / eat decay matter as the sand go
through it digestive system. This one the reason why fine sand is recommend
over crush coral or similar large size sand. Larger gain will trap matter.

Get the general idea skozzy?
This is my brand new shiny ¼ cent of a penny for you.

CapFusion,...

[Harald]

"skozzy" > wrote in message
u...
> > Please see if this makes sense to you. I have the following setup:
> > * 72gal tank with 120lbs Fiji LR, 5" DSB, yellow tang, percula clown, a
> few
>
> Not sure totaly, but I remember reading something a while back that said
the
> bacteria that grows in the DSB can only grow there if the grain size of
the
> sand is what suits it. I may be wrong, or I might be thinking of worms ?
>
>
>

The grain size is supposed to be from 0.5 mm to 2 mm max. Depth should be at
least 4". Having the CC in the tank will cause nitrates to go up, as the
bacteria that 'eat' the nitrates can't live on the CC. Then, a cucumber or
two will keep the sand sifted and clean, and will keep the sand from
clumping.

hth

--
Harald
130 g Skimmerless SW Tank
290 lbs/6" DSB
70 lbs LR
3 B/G Chromis, 1 Tomato Clown, 1 Foxface, 1 Blue Regal, 1 Cleaner Wrasse, 2
Firefish, 2 soft corals, 1 Fire shrimp, 2 Red Seastars.


33 gal Skimmerless SW Nano
80 lbs/6" DSB
39 lbs LR,
1 - Yellow Wrasse, 1 Bangaii Cardinal

[B]

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/m_lidster_100498.html

check out this article for possible ( very possible ) solution


"BSackamano" > wrote in message
news:SAiLc.131004$JR4.82353@attbi_s54...
> Please see if this makes sense to you. I have the following setup:
> * 72gal tank with 120lbs Fiji LR, 5" DSB, yellow tang, percula clown, a
few
> soft coral (mushrooms, zooanthids, xenia, leather)
> * 15gal sump with EV-180
> * 12gal fuge with grape caulerpa and chaetomorpha (caulerpa growing well
> under 55W PC, chaeto not so well).
>
> I have always had serious nitrate problems with this setup. Before the
DSB
> and fuge were added (previously about 1/4" crushed coral in tank) nitrates
> according to Aquarium Pharmacuticals kit were 40-80-160 (colors all look
> this same in this range). About 10 months ago I added 170lbs of southdown
> and 30lbs LS and the fuge. Now a couple months ago, the DSB seemed to be
> maturing - there are lots of air bubbles against the glass, bristle worms
> everywhere, and amphipods crawling all over the rocks and sand at night,
but
> nitrate still 40+. I decided to do water changes like never before; I did
> 12 20gal changes (20-25%) in 14 days (got lazy a couple of nights), fed
VERY
> lightly, and got down to 0 nitrate! By then my tang was getting thin so I
> started feeding him a small square of algae daily and in 2 weeks, 40+
> nitrate! At that point, I returned the tang to the LFS. NOW, I have
since
> added another clown (still only 2 fish!) and the DSB LOOKS like it's
working
> but of course the nitrates are high......????????????????
>
> I've probably forgotten some important details, but here are a few more
> thoughts. I do a 20gal water change every two weeks (or sometimes
daily..).
> I have no mechanical filtration (only LR, LS, and EV-180). I clean the
> EV-180 every water change, or 1-2 times a week, which ever is sooner. I
> still feed VERY lightly, maybe 1/4 cube of frozen shrimp and a dash of
> pellets per week. I use RODI from a Kent Maxima. I've double checked the
> nitrate with a Salifert kit (it's high) and tested the fresh SW (0
nitrate).
> I have pretty good circulation with only an occasional light cyano
problem.
> Ammonia and nitrite are 0 (Aqarium Pharm), SG 1.0225 (hydrometer), temp
> 81-83F (digital), pH 8.3-8.5 (pinpoint), alk 3.8meg/L (salifert), CA 450
> (salifert), and I top-off with a nilsen reactor.
>
> Well thanks for reading and please let me know if you have any ideas, JJJ.
>
>