Re: Ammonia problem! HELP PLEASE?

[Stan]

No big deal. Buy some Amquel, or even better Amquel Plus. Also, get an
Ammonia Alert and add Amquel by watching the Ammonia Alert.




"Jody Pellerin" > wrote in message
...
> We bought a tank a few weeks ago and have since had an ammonia problem. I
> never really knew much about it so I didn't know over feeding fish or
> feeding once a day was bad for a new tank set up. Anyways, we got the
water
> tested as the pet store owner directed (We took in a water sample to her
> from our tank) and it was tested mid-range (1.2-2.4) for ammonia. We did a
> complete water change and tank cleaning. Any how, it came back. And went
> right up back as high. The last few days, it peaked and atleast 5 fish
have
> died and others are sick (but a couple are getting better, I'm using ick
> disease cure) I did a %70 water change tonight and did a rock cleaning. I
> put in PH down salt and put cold water into the tank to get the
temperatures
> down. (I know the higher the temps and PH levels, the more toxic and
> untolerable the ammonia is) So now I'm hoping for an improvement. We went
> through a whole bottle of 'Cycle' since we bought the tank. My boyfriend
is
> on his way home with another, as well as a filter part which is made for
> ammonia control. (We have the Aqua Plus 200, I believe it's called)
Anyways,
> we have a 20 gallon tank and about 20 fish in there, ranging in sizes.
> Guppies, Mollies, Platties, 2 Zebras, Tetras, 2 Silver Goramis (Spelling
may
> be wrong, sorry) and 2 alguaue eaters. I am trying desperately to get this
> tank stabalized. It's been about a week since we had done our complete
water
> change (and I know, that was stupid) I am using cycle, adding two
cap-fulls
> every other day. Feeding them maybe twice a week now. There were dead fish
> (We had bought some feeder guppies and a fish had babies) and we didn't
know
> the bodies were still in there, so I can see why the ammonia peaked so
high
> and fast. I took out the plants and ornament so they can't go in them to
> hide and die as they've been doing. I would say about 10 dish have died,
> including feeder guppies, two neon tetras, four platties, a siamese
fighting
> fish and a swordtail.
> I just don't know what else to do, besides keep the PH down, put in the
new
> filter part, and use Cycle. But how often should I use cycle, how often
> should I do water changing, and how much at a time? ANY advice or tips
right
> now would be much apreciated. I don't know what else to do.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Jody Pellerin
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/2003
>
>

[Suzmyers]

You need to learn about the nitrogen cycle....here is a good resource at the
krib
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

"Jody Pellerin" > wrote in message
...
> We bought a tank a few weeks ago and have since had an ammonia problem. I
> never really knew much about it so I didn't know over feeding fish or
> feeding once a day was bad for a new tank set up. Anyways, we got the
water
> tested as the pet store owner directed (We took in a water sample to her
> from our tank) and it was tested mid-range (1.2-2.4) for ammonia. We did a
> complete water change and tank cleaning. Any how, it came back. And went
> right up back as high. The last few days, it peaked and atleast 5 fish
have
> died and others are sick (but a couple are getting better, I'm using ick
> disease cure) I did a %70 water change tonight and did a rock cleaning. I
> put in PH down salt and put cold water into the tank to get the
temperatures
> down. (I know the higher the temps and PH levels, the more toxic and
> untolerable the ammonia is) So now I'm hoping for an improvement. We went
> through a whole bottle of 'Cycle' since we bought the tank. My boyfriend
is
> on his way home with another, as well as a filter part which is made for
> ammonia control. (We have the Aqua Plus 200, I believe it's called)
Anyways,
> we have a 20 gallon tank and about 20 fish in there, ranging in sizes.
> Guppies, Mollies, Platties, 2 Zebras, Tetras, 2 Silver Goramis (Spelling
may
> be wrong, sorry) and 2 alguaue eaters. I am trying desperately to get this
> tank stabalized. It's been about a week since we had done our complete
water
> change (and I know, that was stupid) I am using cycle, adding two
cap-fulls
> every other day. Feeding them maybe twice a week now. There were dead fish
> (We had bought some feeder guppies and a fish had babies) and we didn't
know
> the bodies were still in there, so I can see why the ammonia peaked so
high
> and fast. I took out the plants and ornament so they can't go in them to
> hide and die as they've been doing. I would say about 10 dish have died,
> including feeder guppies, two neon tetras, four platties, a siamese
fighting
> fish and a swordtail.
> I just don't know what else to do, besides keep the PH down, put in the
new
> filter part, and use Cycle. But how often should I use cycle, how often
> should I do water changing, and how much at a time? ANY advice or tips
right
> now would be much apreciated. I don't know what else to do.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Jody Pellerin
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/2003
>
>

[Robert Flory]

Put the plants back in ......

> "Jody Pellerin" > wrote in message
> ...

> > every other day. Feeding them maybe twice a week now. There were dead
fish
> > (We had bought some feeder guppies and a fish had babies) and we didn't
> know
> > the bodies were still in there, so I can see why the ammonia peaked so
> high
> > and fast. I took out the plants and ornament so they can't go in them to
> > hide and die as they've been doing. I would say about 10 dish have died,
> > including feeder guppies, two neon tetras, four platties, a siamese
> fighting
> > fish and a swordtail.
> > I just don't know what else to do, besides keep the PH down, put in the
> new
> > filter part, and use Cycle. But how often should I use cycle, how often
> > should I do water changing, and how much at a time? ANY advice or tips
> right
> > now would be much apreciated. I don't know what else to do.
> >
> > --
> > Sincerely,
> > Jody Pellerin
> >
> >
>

Plants can utilize the ammonia directly. They will help. The more the
merrier.

Try using some PRIME if you can get it. It is supposed to help with both
ammonia and nitrite.

Don't wash the filter. Rinse it in tank water. Tap water with chlorine
will kill it.

Personally cycle never helped much. Do you know anyone with an established
tank, who will give you some old filter material.

Hang in there. Most of us have been there. I'd establish health plants
then add fish one by one over a long period of time.

Bob

[El Penguini]

for god's sake, stop cleaning the tank. Everytime you change lots of water
you force the tank to restart the process. Vacuum up the excess debris
(spend some more money on a vacuum, yes) buy some chemicals to stop killing
fish and let the tank cycle. And stop cleaning stuff.

Now, about your fish store....I would have to wonder about a fish store that
sells you a 20 gallon tank and 20 fish and tells you to come back with some
water in a few days. The proper way to cycle a tank is to fill it, test it,
through in a few zebras or other hearty fish, let it cycle and then about
one week later add some more fish and repeat. Is this a fish store or a
chain?

About feeders as pets. Feeders have diseases induced by inbreeding and
shouldn't be used a pets. They should be used as food (hence the name
"Feeders"). Breeders don't treat them like they do pet quality fish. They
aren't mixed breeds, they're food.

Good Luck.


"Jody Pellerin" > wrote in message
...
> We bought a tank a few weeks ago and have since had an ammonia problem. I
> never really knew much about it so I didn't know over feeding fish or
> feeding once a day was bad for a new tank set up. Anyways, we got the
water
> tested as the pet store owner directed (We took in a water sample to her
> from our tank) and it was tested mid-range (1.2-2.4) for ammonia. We did a
> complete water change and tank cleaning. Any how, it came back. And went
> right up back as high. The last few days, it peaked and atleast 5 fish
have
> died and others are sick (but a couple are getting better, I'm using ick
> disease cure) I did a %70 water change tonight and did a rock cleaning. I
> put in PH down salt and put cold water into the tank to get the
temperatures
> down. (I know the higher the temps and PH levels, the more toxic and
> untolerable the ammonia is) So now I'm hoping for an improvement. We went
> through a whole bottle of 'Cycle' since we bought the tank. My boyfriend
is
> on his way home with another, as well as a filter part which is made for
> ammonia control. (We have the Aqua Plus 200, I believe it's called)
Anyways,
> we have a 20 gallon tank and about 20 fish in there, ranging in sizes.
> Guppies, Mollies, Platties, 2 Zebras, Tetras, 2 Silver Goramis (Spelling
may
> be wrong, sorry) and 2 alguaue eaters. I am trying desperately to get this
> tank stabalized. It's been about a week since we had done our complete
water
> change (and I know, that was stupid) I am using cycle, adding two
cap-fulls
> every other day. Feeding them maybe twice a week now. There were dead fish
> (We had bought some feeder guppies and a fish had babies) and we didn't
know
> the bodies were still in there, so I can see why the ammonia peaked so
high
> and fast. I took out the plants and ornament so they can't go in them to
> hide and die as they've been doing. I would say about 10 dish have died,
> including feeder guppies, two neon tetras, four platties, a siamese
fighting
> fish and a swordtail.
> I just don't know what else to do, besides keep the PH down, put in the
new
> filter part, and use Cycle. But how often should I use cycle, how often
> should I do water changing, and how much at a time? ANY advice or tips
right
> now would be much apreciated. I don't know what else to do.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Jody Pellerin
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/2003
>
>

[Margolis]

"El Penguini" > wrote in message
...
> for god's sake, stop cleaning the tank. Everytime you change lots of
water
> you force the tank to restart the process. Vacuum up the excess debris
> (spend some more money on a vacuum, yes) buy some chemicals to stop
killing
> fish and let the tank cycle. And stop cleaning stuff.
>



changing the water has no affect on the bacteria at all. The nitrifying
bacteria is not free floating, they are attached to surfaces in the tank and
filter. You need to constantly change water in a tank while it is cycling
if you have fish.


--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[TYNK 7]

(snipped)

>Subject: Re: Ammonia problem! HELP PLEASE?
>From: "El Penguini"
>Date: 1/15/2005 11:25 A.M. Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>for god's sake, stop cleaning the tank. Everytime you change lots of water
>you force the tank to restart the process. Vacuum up the excess debris
>(spend some more money on a vacuum, yes) buy some chemicals to stop killing
>fish and let the tank cycle. And stop cleaning stuff.
>
>Now, about your fish store....I would have to wonder about a fish store that
>sells you a 20 gallon tank and 20 fish and tells you to come back with some
>water in a few days. The proper way to cycle a tank is to fill it, test it,
>through in a few zebras or other hearty fish, let it cycle and then about
>one week later add some more fish and repeat. Is this a fish store or a
>chain?

Why are you telling somebody with an ammonia problem to stop changing the
water?
That *is* the solution.
Nitrifying bacteria are not just floating about through the water. They're
"sticky" and adhere to surfaces such as tank walls, plants, decor, gravel,
filter housing, etc.
By removing water you are not removing the good bacteria.
Now if they were in the cycling process and were scrubbing every surface, and
vacuuming the gravel with a water change, then yes...that would be "cleaning
too much" and they would be removing the nitrifying bacteria colonies off the
surfaces there by creating a constant cycling process.
To simply tell somebody new to the hobby to stop cleaning....stop changing
water....that's not right.
Things need to be better explained, and why they should or should not things.

[Steve Danhof]

"Margolis" > wrote in message
...
> "El Penguini" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> changing the water has no affect on the bacteria at all. The nitrifying
> bacteria is not free floating, they are attached to surfaces in the tank
and
> filter. You need to constantly change water in a tank while it is cycling
> if you have fish.


The nitrifying bacteria may not be in the water, but the "stuff" (Ammonia,
and Nitrites) it feeds on is. New tanks do not come with bacteria built in.
It must be made. That is why you must stock the tank with a couple (and no
more than 2 in a 20 gallon.) hearty fish, and resist changing the water as
much as you can. If the ammonia or nitrates get high enough that the fish
are showing definate signs of stress, then a 25-50% water change should be
initiated. Just be warned, every time you change any of the water, you will
slow down the cycle process. Under no circumstances though should the tank,
substrate, or filter be cleaned during the initial cycle as this will
destroy any beneficial bacteria which is taking hold. Just to give you an
idea of what an unreasonable level is, I recently cycled a 20 Gallon Tank
with 2 African Cichlids. During the cycle my ammonia spiked at around 8.0
Parts Per Million(PPM) for about 3 days followed closely by the Nitrite
level getting up to 5.

As far as time frame goes, patience is a virtue. Regardless of what all
the books say, it will take the average tank about 6 weeks to be fully
cycled and ready to accept its next batch of fish. The Nitrite eating
bacteria alone doubles only every 15 hours and it needs to multiply many
times over before the tank is ready. If the books said this though they
would never sell.

After the initial cycle, the Nitrate level will be high. At this point
it is safe to do a partial water change; 25-50% depending of fish breed and
weather or not you have live plants or not. This will lower the nitrate
level which cannot be converted by any natural process except
photosynthesis. After the water change, fish can be added 1 to 2 at a time
each week or so until it has reached capacity. (as a general rule, a tank
should never exceed about 1" of fish per gallon) So be patient, and it will
pay off.


By the way, be aware nitr"i"tes and nitr"a"tes are very different.
Nitrites are very toxic to fish, most cannot tollerate more than about 2
PPM. Nitrates are also toxic to fish, but only in exceptionally greater
quantities (40 to 80 PPM or more for some fish).

Anyway, now I have rambled on for way too long, so if you are actually
reading this part of the message I would be very suprised.

-Steve

[Gordon James]

Hi Jody

I am in moncton (382-7016) if you want to phone.

there are great resources at www.thkrib.com

to understand the chemistry if a tank read http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/

the basic things that go in in a new tank include . . . .


1. set up your tank and add tap water
get your tank completely set up including filtration and air bubblers.
Add water.
Turn on heater(s) and filter(s) etc.

2. WAIT A WHILE (1 day should do)
this lets chlorine evaporate out of the water and gets rid of excess CO2
as the water warms up.
Add ONE fish
Add live plants

At the start your tank has not enough of the good bacteria to break down
the ammonia produced by your fish.
(fish pee etc.) By starting with one fish you give that fish a chance
to survive what will happen next.

3. Wait a while (2 or 3 days) and do a partial (10%) water change.
4. Wait a while (2 or 3 days) and do a partial (10%) water change.
5. Wait a while (2 or 3 days) and do a partial (10%) water change.

At the end of these two weeks you are ready to add a few more fish

As the tank matures you are ready to add e few more fish.

****************
How to avoid beginner mistakes . . .
http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/aquariumstartup/a/newtankmistakes.htm



there are some good ideas here http://freshaquarium.about.com/



http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/biologicalcycle/a/nitrogencycle_3.htm





"Jody Pellerin" > wrote in message
...
> We bought a tank a few weeks ago and have since had an ammonia problem. I
> never really knew much about it so I didn't know over feeding fish or
> feeding once a day was bad for a new tank set up. Anyways, we got the
water
> tested as the pet store owner directed (We took in a water sample to her
> from our tank) and it was tested mid-range (1.2-2.4) for ammonia. We did a
> complete water change and tank cleaning. Any how, it came back. And went
> right up back as high. The last few days, it peaked and atleast 5 fish
have
> died and others are sick (but a couple are getting better, I'm using ick
> disease cure) I did a %70 water change tonight and did a rock cleaning. I
> put in PH down salt and put cold water into the tank to get the
temperatures
> down. (I know the higher the temps and PH levels, the more toxic and
> untolerable the ammonia is) So now I'm hoping for an improvement. We went
> through a whole bottle of 'Cycle' since we bought the tank. My boyfriend
is
> on his way home with another, as well as a filter part which is made for
> ammonia control. (We have the Aqua Plus 200, I believe it's called)
Anyways,
> we have a 20 gallon tank and about 20 fish in there, ranging in sizes.
> Guppies, Mollies, Platties, 2 Zebras, Tetras, 2 Silver Goramis (Spelling
may
> be wrong, sorry) and 2 alguaue eaters. I am trying desperately to get this
> tank stabalized. It's been about a week since we had done our complete
water
> change (and I know, that was stupid) I am using cycle, adding two
cap-fulls
> every other day. Feeding them maybe twice a week now. There were dead fish
> (We had bought some feeder guppies and a fish had babies) and we didn't
know
> the bodies were still in there, so I can see why the ammonia peaked so
high
> and fast. I took out the plants and ornament so they can't go in them to
> hide and die as they've been doing. I would say about 10 dish have died,
> including feeder guppies, two neon tetras, four platties, a siamese
fighting
> fish and a swordtail.
> I just don't know what else to do, besides keep the PH down, put in the
new
> filter part, and use Cycle. But how often should I use cycle, how often
> should I do water changing, and how much at a time? ANY advice or tips
right
> now would be much apreciated. I don't know what else to do.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Jody Pellerin
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/2003
>
>

[Billy]

"Gordon James" > wrote in message
...
| Hi Jody
|


Why are you replying to an 8-month old post?