Impregnated Gravel?

[Emily]

Hi,

I am hoping somebody on this group may be able to point me in the right
direction.

I am doing a high school research project that involves keeping
some fish (specifically, Siamese Fighting Fish). The one that I bought
comes in a small plastic container, with some apparently "special" gravel
at the bottom of the tank that I gather is somehow impregnated with
nitrifying bacteria.

Now my question is about the gravel (I need to discuss an innovation for
my research report). Has anyone heard of such bacteria-impregnated gravel?
Where can I look to find out more about it, such as who invented it and
when, how is it made, and what its properties, advantages and
disadvantages are? I asked the people who sold me the fish and they were
strangely evasive -- presumably because they don't want anyone cutting in
on their business.

I would be very grateful for any clues, no matter how small.

Thank you very much.

Regards,

Emily

[GloFish]

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 06:09:49 GMT, Emily > wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am hoping somebody on this group may be able to point me in the right
>direction.
>
>I am doing a high school research project that involves keeping
>some fish (specifically, Siamese Fighting Fish). The one that I bought
>comes in a small plastic container, with some apparently "special" gravel
>at the bottom of the tank that I gather is somehow impregnated with
>nitrifying bacteria.
>
>Now my question is about the gravel (I need to discuss an innovation for
>my research report). Has anyone heard of such bacteria-impregnated gravel?
>Where can I look to find out more about it, such as who invented it and
>when, how is it made, and what its properties, advantages and
>disadvantages are? I asked the people who sold me the fish and they were
>strangely evasive -- presumably because they don't want anyone cutting in
>on their business.
>
>I would be very grateful for any clues, no matter how small.
>
>Thank you very much.
>
>Regards,
>
>Emily


Emily,

I don't know how many people actually read this group. Your question
would be better aimed at rec.aquaria, or r.a.freshwater.misc.

Let me try and answer your question. When an aquarium has completed
the nitrogen cycle, it has several types of bacteria in the filter
that convert ammonia to nitrites, and nitrites to nitrates.

This bacteria is also found in the gravel, actually, pretty much
anywhere it can stick to.

This "impregnated" gravel is probably just gravel that was in a fully
cycled, mature tank.

One way to jump start a new tank's cycling is to use gravel from an
older more established tank. This introduces the friendly bacteria.
Another method is Bio-Spira from Marineland (http://marineland.com/).
This is a refrigerated liquid laden with the friendly bacteria.
People have reported mixed results using it, but I have had success
with it on two separate tanks.

You can find more information on the nitrogen cycle at The Krib
(http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/), or search
http://groups.google.com for "nitrogen cycle".

Good Luck....


--Tony

[Rikko]

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 06:09:49 GMT, Emily > wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am hoping somebody on this group may be able to point me in the right
>direction.
>
>I am doing a high school research project that involves keeping
>some fish (specifically, Siamese Fighting Fish). The one that I bought
>comes in a small plastic container, with some apparently "special" gravel
>at the bottom of the tank that I gather is somehow impregnated with
>nitrifying bacteria.

If the gravel was dry packed it's a bunch of nonsense - it isn't
impregnated with anything but dust. If it was damp, then it's
certainly possible - though the bacteria don't last terribly long and
in a bowl you'll never really see a cycle take place.

>Now my question is about the gravel (I need to discuss an innovation for
>my research report). Has anyone heard of such bacteria-impregnated gravel?
>Where can I look to find out more about it, such as who invented it and
>when, how is it made, and what its properties, advantages and
>disadvantages are? I asked the people who sold me the fish and they were
>strangely evasive -- presumably because they don't want anyone cutting in
>on their business.

They were evasive because they either didn't know what they were
talking about or knew full well that it doesn't do anything.. Trust
me, I do fish retail. :)

If you want to cover an innovation, you might want to look at a piece
of aquarium technology that doesn't claim to perform miracles - for
one, it will work, and most importantly, you'll be able to gather data
on it.
A couple technologies you might find interesting:
Hagen Bio Max. It's a ceramic filter media that you put into your
filter.. It's constructed so that each piece has around 40 square feet
of surface area and is about the size of an olive. It provides a huge
amount of surface area for a small space and for smaller filters and
heavy bio loads you will find that your filter can do double time. I
only suggest Bio Max because Hagen is notoriously open about their
stuff and you could probably even phone and talk to somebody about it
further.
Fluidized bed filters. It's essentially a sand filter. Like Bio Max,
you pack a huge amount of surface area (picture nearly compacted sand
- that's a lot of surface) into a small canister. You keep the sand
bed fluidized by running a water stream through it to keep it churning
slightly. Again, a clever innovation in aquarium technology.

Unfortunately, both of these are for larger tanks and don't really
relate to betta splendens.
If you want something that relates to being able to keep bettas, maybe
just examine the dechlorinator that you can buy.. Aqua Plus, Aqua
Safe, Stress Coat, Fritz Guard, you name it... They all chemically
react with tap water to neutralize most heavy metals and chlorine and
make the water safe for fish. Beyond that, they often contain a slime
coat "regenerator" which helps the fish rebuild a slime coat after
losing any due to stress or being netted. The main active ingredient
is sodium thiosulphate, and if you Google that you'll find lots of
info. It's essentially a chemical application but it does combine
keeping fish with modern water treatment.

Worth a look, anyways.

[Polarhound]

GloFish wrote:

> Another method is Bio-Spira from Marineland (http://marineland.com/).
> This is a refrigerated liquid laden with the friendly bacteria.
> People have reported mixed results using it, but I have had success
> with it on two separate tanks.

For all the "mixed results" comments I've ever heard about Bio-Spira,
I've yet to see someone come forward and explicitly state it did NOT work.

The only negative comments I've ever seen about it are from the "Too
Good To Be True" crowd, of which I have never seen one actually talk
about how it failed for them.

[Rikko]

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:57:45 -0500, Polarhound
> wrote:

>GloFish wrote:
>
>> Another method is Bio-Spira from Marineland (http://marineland.com/).
>> This is a refrigerated liquid laden with the friendly bacteria.
>> People have reported mixed results using it, but I have had success
>> with it on two separate tanks.
>
>For all the "mixed results" comments I've ever heard about Bio-Spira,
>I've yet to see someone come forward and explicitly state it did NOT work.
>
>The only negative comments I've ever seen about it are from the "Too
>Good To Be True" crowd, of which I have never seen one actually talk
>about how it failed for them.

I talked to a Hagen rep about it and he said that he'd heard it's not
bad, except it needs to move FAST. It doesn't last terribly long on
the shelf so they need to ship it within a couple days of
manufacturing... Anybody have an expiry date on a bottle to verify
that?

[Polarhound]

Rikko wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:57:45 -0500, Polarhound
> > wrote:
>
>
>>GloFish wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Another method is Bio-Spira from Marineland (http://marineland.com/).
>>>This is a refrigerated liquid laden with the friendly bacteria.
>>>People have reported mixed results using it, but I have had success
>>>with it on two separate tanks.
>>
>>For all the "mixed results" comments I've ever heard about Bio-Spira,
>>I've yet to see someone come forward and explicitly state it did NOT work.
>>
>>The only negative comments I've ever seen about it are from the "Too
>>Good To Be True" crowd, of which I have never seen one actually talk
>>about how it failed for them.
>
>
> I talked to a Hagen rep about it and he said that he'd heard it's not
> bad, except it needs to move FAST. It doesn't last terribly long on
> the shelf so they need to ship it within a couple days of
> manufacturing... Anybody have an expiry date on a bottle to verify
> that?

Considering that:

1. It doesn't come in bottles, it comes in pouches.
2. It is shipped with cold packs.
3. Stores carrying it are required to refrigerate it.
4. It is very likely refrigerated at Hagen.
and
5. Refrigerated bacteria in this manner can be stored for some time.

It is very likely the rep was talking out of his ass. Also, a rep for
the stuff would not call it "not bad". They are paid to talk UP the
product.

As for the "doesn't last terribly long" part, it is correct with
modification:

It "doesn't last terribly long on the shelf" because it sells so fast,
Hagen can't make the stuff fast enough to keep up with demand! They are
not shipping any more freshwater Bio Spira until September because they
need to build up their stock again.

[Harry Muscle]

"Polarhound" > wrote in message
...
> Rikko wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:57:45 -0500, Polarhound
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>GloFish wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Another method is Bio-Spira from Marineland (http://marineland.com/).
> >>>This is a refrigerated liquid laden with the friendly bacteria.
> >>>People have reported mixed results using it, but I have had success
> >>>with it on two separate tanks.
> >>
> >>For all the "mixed results" comments I've ever heard about Bio-Spira,
> >>I've yet to see someone come forward and explicitly state it did NOT
work.
> >>
> >>The only negative comments I've ever seen about it are from the "Too
> >>Good To Be True" crowd, of which I have never seen one actually talk
> >>about how it failed for them.
> >
> >
> > I talked to a Hagen rep about it and he said that he'd heard it's not
> > bad, except it needs to move FAST. It doesn't last terribly long on
> > the shelf so they need to ship it within a couple days of
> > manufacturing... Anybody have an expiry date on a bottle to verify
> > that?
>
> Considering that:
>
> 1. It doesn't come in bottles, it comes in pouches.
> 2. It is shipped with cold packs.
> 3. Stores carrying it are required to refrigerate it.
> 4. It is very likely refrigerated at Hagen.
> and
> 5. Refrigerated bacteria in this manner can be stored for some time.
>
> It is very likely the rep was talking out of his ass. Also, a rep for
> the stuff would not call it "not bad". They are paid to talk UP the
> product.
>
> As for the "doesn't last terribly long" part, it is correct with
> modification:
>
> It "doesn't last terribly long on the shelf" because it sells so fast,
> Hagen can't make the stuff fast enough to keep up with demand! They are
> not shipping any more freshwater Bio Spira until September because they
> need to build up their stock again.

Just a note, Hagen doesn't make Bio Spira.

Harry




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[Polarhound]

Harry Muscle wrote:

> "Polarhound" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Rikko wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:57:45 -0500, Polarhound
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>GloFish wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Another method is Bio-Spira from Marineland (http://marineland.com/).
>>>>>This is a refrigerated liquid laden with the friendly bacteria.
>>>>>People have reported mixed results using it, but I have had success
>>>>>with it on two separate tanks.
>>>>
>>>>For all the "mixed results" comments I've ever heard about Bio-Spira,
>>>>I've yet to see someone come forward and explicitly state it did NOT
>
> work.
>
>>>>The only negative comments I've ever seen about it are from the "Too
>>>>Good To Be True" crowd, of which I have never seen one actually talk
>>>>about how it failed for them.
>>>
>>>
>>>I talked to a Hagen rep about it and he said that he'd heard it's not
>>>bad, except it needs to move FAST. It doesn't last terribly long on
>>>the shelf so they need to ship it within a couple days of
>>>manufacturing... Anybody have an expiry date on a bottle to verify
>>>that?
>>
>>Considering that:
>>
>>1. It doesn't come in bottles, it comes in pouches.
>>2. It is shipped with cold packs.
>>3. Stores carrying it are required to refrigerate it.
>>4. It is very likely refrigerated at Hagen.
>>and
>>5. Refrigerated bacteria in this manner can be stored for some time.
>>
>>It is very likely the rep was talking out of his ass. Also, a rep for
>>the stuff would not call it "not bad". They are paid to talk UP the
>>product.
>>
>>As for the "doesn't last terribly long" part, it is correct with
>>modification:
>>
>>It "doesn't last terribly long on the shelf" because it sells so fast,
>>Hagen can't make the stuff fast enough to keep up with demand! They are
>>not shipping any more freshwater Bio Spira until September because they
>>need to build up their stock again.
>
>
> Just a note, Hagen doesn't make Bio Spira.

I was waiting to see if someone was going to catch that. Nice to see
someone is double checking me as well :)

[GloFish]

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 05:49:50 -0500, Polarhound
> wrote:

>Harry Muscle wrote:
>
>> "Polarhound" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Rikko wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:57:45 -0500, Polarhound
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>GloFish wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Another method is Bio-Spira from Marineland (http://marineland.com/).

<snip>

>> Just a note, Hagen doesn't make Bio Spira.
>
>I was waiting to see if someone was going to catch that. Nice to see
>someone is double checking me as well :)

Didn't think to mention it, since I did to begin with. It's also not
uncommon for sales reps to talk about other companies products, either
in comparision to their own, or in compliment to their own.

From the sound of the posting, it came across as talk about someone
elses product, not as if the Hagen rep were talking about his own.

<shrug>


--Tony

[Ann Viverette]

In my Drs. Foster Smith catalog I see a product called Nitrex in the
Biological Media section... " Unique, effective, patented biological
filtration. Thes granular material for fresh and salt water has the ability
to grow specific nitrifying bacteria to eliminate ammonia, ammonium,
nitrate, and nitrate in hours.... " It looks like aquarium carbon, black and
fine chunks. Perhaps they have included something like this, or maybe it is
simply used gravel from their extablished tanks (My best guess is this is
used gravel)

In the chemical Media section you will find other magic grael=like subsances
containing zeolite, carbon, and many carbon substitutes. Go to
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/ to read what the sales brochures say, then
find the manufacturer sites to search for further information.

Now I have head that someone was selling used gravel online, or trying to
find out how long such gravel would be good in shipping. Having seen the
prices some people will pay on Ebay for common things, I am no longer
surprised. In fact, I guess now that my narrow leaf java fern is producing
so much, I need to set myself up on Ebay to auction it off bit by bit.
Nothing like an auction to get folks to over pay for stuff!

Ann V


"Emily" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I am hoping somebody on this group may be able to point me in the right
> direction.
>
> I am doing a high school research project that involves keeping
> some fish (specifically, Siamese Fighting Fish). The one that I bought
> comes in a small plastic container, with some apparently "special" gravel
> at the bottom of the tank that I gather is somehow impregnated with
> nitrifying bacteria.
>
> Now my question is about the gravel (I need to discuss an innovation for
> my research report). Has anyone heard of such bacteria-impregnated gravel?
> Where can I look to find out more about it, such as who invented it and
> when, how is it made, and what its properties, advantages and
> disadvantages are? I asked the people who sold me the fish and they were
> strangely evasive -- presumably because they don't want anyone cutting in
> on their business.
>
> I would be very grateful for any clues, no matter how small.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Regards,
>
> Emily
>

[Rikko]

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:39:09 GMT, GloFish >
wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 05:49:50 -0500, Polarhound
> wrote:
>
>>Harry Muscle wrote:
>>
>>> "Polarhound" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>>Rikko wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:57:45 -0500, Polarhound
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>GloFish wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Another method is Bio-Spira from Marineland (http://marineland.com/).
>
><snip>
>
>>> Just a note, Hagen doesn't make Bio Spira.
>>
>>I was waiting to see if someone was going to catch that. Nice to see
>>someone is double checking me as well :)
>
>Didn't think to mention it, since I did to begin with. It's also not
>uncommon for sales reps to talk about other companies products, either
>in comparision to their own, or in compliment to their own.
>
>From the sound of the posting, it came across as talk about someone
>elses product, not as if the Hagen rep were talking about his own.
>
><shrug>

Err, yes, guess I assumed everybody knew it was a Marineland prod..

Umm.. It *is* Marineland right?

[Polarhound]

Rikko wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:39:09 GMT, GloFish >
> wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 05:49:50 -0500, Polarhound
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Harry Muscle wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Polarhound" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Rikko wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:57:45 -0500, Polarhound
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>GloFish wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Another method is Bio-Spira from Marineland (http://marineland.com/).
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>>Just a note, Hagen doesn't make Bio Spira.
>>>
>>>I was waiting to see if someone was going to catch that. Nice to see
>>>someone is double checking me as well :)
>>
>>Didn't think to mention it, since I did to begin with. It's also not
>>uncommon for sales reps to talk about other companies products, either
>>in comparision to their own, or in compliment to their own.
>>
>
>>From the sound of the posting, it came across as talk about someone
>
>>elses product, not as if the Hagen rep were talking about his own.
>>
>><shrug>
>
>
> Err, yes, guess I assumed everybody knew it was a Marineland prod..
>
> Umm.. It *is* Marineland right?

Yes, it is.