How often to freeze frozen foods?

[Fish Heads]

I had been feeding frozen foods daily (brine shrimp or bloodworms). I
usually try to rinse them out pretty good. I think I'm a little happier
with my water quality now that I've switched to one meal of frozen every
other day. Will this be enough frozen foods for the fish?

I've got Rainbowfish in one tank...those guys are like sharks! I don't
think any food every hits the bottom, the weekly 20% water changes keep
everything in pretty good shape there. It's the Cherry Barbs in the 10 gal
that I'm the most concerned with on water quality.

[NetMax]

"Fish Heads" > wrote in message
...
> I had been feeding frozen foods daily (brine shrimp or bloodworms). I
> usually try to rinse them out pretty good. I think I'm a little
happier
> with my water quality now that I've switched to one meal of frozen
every
> other day. Will this be enough frozen foods for the fish?
>
> I've got Rainbowfish in one tank...those guys are like sharks! I don't
> think any food every hits the bottom, the weekly 20% water changes keep
> everything in pretty good shape there. It's the Cherry Barbs in the 10
gal
> that I'm the most concerned with on water quality.

From your subject line, I thought you were asking how often you could
re-freeze frozen foods. I had a customer this week who was microwaving
the frozen food (very bad). Once thawed, frozen food should not be
re-frozen. The longer it's in a thawed state, the more bacteria get
established (and this happens very quickly) and the food loses it's
ability to stay intact (turns to mush). Inspect your frozen foods at the
LFS for signs of re-freezing (usually a frozen liquid at the edge of the
bag). Avoid this. It may have thawed in transit (at least once) and you
don't know for how long. Good LFS will inspect and reject thawed frozen
foods, but good LFS are sometimes few & far between.

There are 2 methods I know of for feeding. If you have a mixture of
different species, especially if there is a mix of slow & fast feeders,
break a portion of the frozen food and place in a dish of lukewarm water
(like aquarium water). I use small stainless steel food/water bowls for
cats, as they conduct heat well and are easy to clean. Stir periodically
and as soon as it's all thawed, dump it all (or enough that they all get
some each time) in the tank, opposite the filter intake (or turn off the
filter during the feeding period). In chaos, everyone gets a chance to
eat. This method even favours smaller fish, as their bites are bigger
relative to their body size, and larger fish might even not bother eating
much, when fed this way.

The 2nd method used is when the fish are all fairly small and of the same
size and the same species (or similar in feeding abilities). In this
case, break a portion off and drop it in the tank. It will float and
they will pick it apart as it thaws. This works fine for some larger
fish too, like Discus. Although you have less control over where it
floats, because it dissolves slowly, there is less chance of it getting
into the filter intake. Avoid this method as soon as any of the fish are
able to swim away with the bulk of the food. Feeding rings are sometimes
useful too, ymmv.

On rainbowfish :o) In a very well populated (crowded ;~) 60g, I have
about 6 species of rainbows (and a few Balas and Golden Wonder Killies).
Whatever I feed, in whatever quantity I choose, I don't think food has
ever fallen lower than 2.5". I have no bottom feeders in this tank (what
would be the point?). 2nd place goes to a tank of Buenos Aires Tetras
and 3rd place goes to the Danio tank.

NetMax

[Toni]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
news:3kqPa.17017>
> There are 2 methods I know of for feeding. If you have a mixture of
> different species, especially if there is a mix of slow & fast feeders,
> break a portion of the frozen food and place in a dish of lukewarm water
> (like aquarium water). I use small stainless steel food/water bowls for
> cats, as they conduct heat well and are easy to clean. Stir periodically
> and as soon as it's all thawed, dump it all (or enough that they all get
> some each time) in the tank, opposite the filter intake (or turn off the
> filter during the feeding period).



NetMax- I was under the impression that I was supposed to rinse/strain all
frozen foods to remove the "waste water" that surrounds the actual food?? I
thought too much unedible schmutz went into the water if you just dumped it
in.
I'd be happy *not* to have to do this. As it is I put my piece of frozen
food in a coffee filter and let it set until it thaws a bit, or run water
over it to thaw it. Then I rinse/squeeze out the excess water and feed the
food bits with a spoon.
Is this not necessary?

--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/aquarium.htm

[Jim Brown]

NetMax > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Fish Heads" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I had been feeding frozen foods daily (brine shrimp or bloodworms). I
> > usually try to rinse them out pretty good. I think I'm a little
> happier
> > with my water quality now that I've switched to one meal of frozen
> every
> > other day. Will this be enough frozen foods for the fish?
> >
> > I've got Rainbowfish in one tank...those guys are like sharks! I don't
> > think any food every hits the bottom, the weekly 20% water changes keep
> > everything in pretty good shape there. It's the Cherry Barbs in the 10
> gal
> > that I'm the most concerned with on water quality.
>
> From your subject line, I thought you were asking how often you could
> re-freeze frozen foods. I had a customer this week who was microwaving
> the frozen food (very bad). Once thawed, frozen food should not be
> re-frozen. The longer it's in a thawed state, the more bacteria get
> established (and this happens very quickly) and the food loses it's
> ability to stay intact (turns to mush). Inspect your frozen foods at the
> LFS for signs of re-freezing (usually a frozen liquid at the edge of the
> bag). Avoid this. It may have thawed in transit (at least once) and you
> don't know for how long. Good LFS will inspect and reject thawed frozen
> foods, but good LFS are sometimes few & far between.
>
> There are 2 methods I know of for feeding. If you have a mixture of
> different species, especially if there is a mix of slow & fast feeders,
> break a portion of the frozen food and place in a dish of lukewarm water
> (like aquarium water). I use small stainless steel food/water bowls for
> cats, as they conduct heat well and are easy to clean. Stir periodically
> and as soon as it's all thawed, dump it all (or enough that they all get
> some each time) in the tank, opposite the filter intake (or turn off the
> filter during the feeding period). In chaos, everyone gets a chance to
> eat. This method even favours smaller fish, as their bites are bigger
> relative to their body size, and larger fish might even not bother eating
> much, when fed this way.
>
> The 2nd method used is when the fish are all fairly small and of the same
> size and the same species (or similar in feeding abilities). In this
> case, break a portion off and drop it in the tank. It will float and
> they will pick it apart as it thaws. This works fine for some larger
> fish too, like Discus. Although you have less control over where it
> floats, because it dissolves slowly, there is less chance of it getting
> into the filter intake. Avoid this method as soon as any of the fish are
> able to swim away with the bulk of the food. Feeding rings are sometimes
> useful too, ymmv.
>
> On rainbowfish :o) In a very well populated (crowded ;~) 60g, I have
> about 6 species of rainbows (and a few Balas and Golden Wonder Killies).
> Whatever I feed, in whatever quantity I choose, I don't think food has
> ever fallen lower than 2.5". I have no bottom feeders in this tank (what
> would be the point?). 2nd place goes to a tank of Buenos Aires Tetras
> and 3rd place goes to the Danio tank.
>
> NetMax
>

The only flaw I can find in NetMax's reply (and the reason I no longer buy
frozen brine shrimp) is that the moisture leftover when thawing the shrimp
in highly saturated with body juices. This doesn't get eaten and can be a
major source of pollution. Thaw the shrimp, yes, but gently rinse it
through a fine mesh net to eliminate much of the non edible juice.

Jim

[NetMax]

"Jim Brown" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> NetMax > wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> > "Fish Heads" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I had been feeding frozen foods daily (brine shrimp or bloodworms).
I
> > > usually try to rinse them out pretty good.
<snip>
> > There are 2 methods I know of for feeding. If you have a mixture of
> > different species, especially if there is a mix of slow & fast
feeders,
> > break a portion of the frozen food and place in a dish of lukewarm
water
> > (like aquarium water). I use small stainless steel food/water bowls
for
> > cats, as they conduct heat well and are easy to clean. Stir
periodically
> > and as soon as it's all thawed, dump it all (or enough that they all
get
> > some each time) in the tank, opposite the filter intake (or turn off
the
> > filter during the feeding period). In chaos, everyone gets a chance
to
> > eat. This method even favours smaller fish, as their bites are
bigger
> > relative to their body size, and larger fish might even not bother
eating
> > much, when fed this way.
> >
> > The 2nd method used is when the fish are all fairly small and of the
same
> > size and the same species (or similar in feeding abilities). In this
> > case, break a portion off and drop it in the tank. It will float and
> > they will pick it apart as it thaws. This works fine for some larger
> > fish too, like Discus. Although you have less control over where it
> > floats, because it dissolves slowly, there is less chance of it
getting
> > into the filter intake. Avoid this method as soon as any of the fish
are
> > able to swim away with the bulk of the food. Feeding rings are
sometimes
> > useful too, ymmv.
<snip>
> > NetMax
> >
>
> The only flaw I can find in NetMax's reply (and the reason I no longer
buy
> frozen brine shrimp) is that the moisture leftover when thawing the
shrimp
> in highly saturated with body juices. This doesn't get eaten and can
be a
> major source of pollution. Thaw the shrimp, yes, but gently rinse it
> through a fine mesh net to eliminate much of the non edible juice.
>
> Jim

Regarding rinsing the frozen brine shrimp, did I never convey to you just
how lazy I am? ;~) I'll admit that when I thaw a big chunk of shrimp
(about 4oz), I sometimes let it settle to the bottom of my melting bowl,
and then I pour off a portion of the water (now somewhat juicy) before
dropping it into the tanks. The amount of contamination varys by
manufacturer, and if it's ever been re-frozen, it's much worst. At home,
I drop the frozen block of shrimp into my powerfilters. I have some
plastic Hornwort hanging in the filter's output and the frozen shrimp
gets caught up in the plant while is slowly dissolves. The plant was
there to prevent overcurious fish from swimming upstream into the filter
and then jumping out. The amount of contamination does not bother me.
The tanks are large (nothing smaller than a 60g), I usually have a range
of mouths to feed, and what is indigestible is converted into something
else by my filters. I would be more concerned with smaller tanks though,
so it's a good point to consider rinsing.

I'm still convinced that frozen shrimp is one of the best foods though.
It has a lot of fibre which is missing from their usual diet, it's animal
but they fed off of algae, so it's got vegetation in it, and coming from
a marine environment, it's not likely to have freshwater contagions to
worry about. There are probably better processed foods (ie: community
delight), but I'm from the old school still ;o)

NetMax

[NetMax]

"Stan" > wrote in message
...
> A point of interest.
> These days, modern refridgerators are frost free. They accomplish this
feat
> by heating up the freezer compartment to melt away the frost and
draining
> this water to a pan underneath where the heat causes it to evaporate.
Ever
> notice that those frozen flats of bloodworms, brineshrimp, ...etc
little
> bubbles tend to get smaller with more air space after a while..... Its
> melts and refreezes many many times. But, it depends on your fridges
> defrost cycle times and how long (or much) frozen food you keep......
<snip>

Are you certain? I know next to nothing about a defrost cycle, but I'd
have thought that the air was being heavily de-humidified causing the
frost to melt into the air, to be collected in a drip pan somewhere.
Even if there was a cyclical thaw, wouldn't it be brief enough to only
cause frost to melt, and not the contents of the packages?

NetMax

[NetMax]

"Toni" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> news:3kqPa.17017>
> > There are 2 methods I know of for feeding. If you have a mixture of
> > different species, especially if there is a mix of slow & fast
feeders,
> > break a portion of the frozen food and place in a dish of lukewarm
water
> > (like aquarium water). I use small stainless steel food/water bowls
for
> > cats, as they conduct heat well and are easy to clean. Stir
periodically
> > and as soon as it's all thawed, dump it all (or enough that they all
get
> > some each time) in the tank, opposite the filter intake (or turn off
the
> > filter during the feeding period).
>
>
>
> NetMax- I was under the impression that I was supposed to rinse/strain
all
> frozen foods to remove the "waste water" that surrounds the actual
food?? I
> thought too much unedible schmutz went into the water if you just
dumped it
> in.
> I'd be happy *not* to have to do this. As it is I put my piece of
frozen
> food in a coffee filter and let it set until it thaws a bit, or run
water
> over it to thaw it. Then I rinse/squeeze out the excess water and feed
the
> food bits with a spoon.
> Is this not necessary?
>
> --
> Toni

Most good answers in the aquarium trade start with "it depends" ;~),
followed by a bunch of questions, and then the answer is still heavily
rooted in personal experience and opinion.

That 'schmutz' has a lot of indigestable organic pollution. If your tank
was small, or marginally filtered, or there was a reason for extra
cleansiness (ie: discus fry tank, breeding tank, hospital tank, still
cycling etc), then a quick rinse in a shrimp net (or a coffee filter as
you use) is IMHO a very good idea. If you feed frozen foods
infrequently, or the tank is large with a moderate bio-load (so you have
active & stable bacterial levels established), or you are overfiltered
(which you should always be), then use your discretion. I will sometimes
pour off the excess water from my shrimp melting container. As a general
rule of thumb (which I am making up right now), whatever cloudiness it
leaves behind should be gone within 20 minutes, or else you shouldn't be
doing it. Does that sound about right?

I don't handle my tanks with kid gloves. I do observe all the basics,
and after the fish, plants and tank are stable & healthy (3 months?), I'm
much more relaxed and carefree about their operation. My tanks are
generally not smaller than 60g (which makes them easier to balance and
stay balanced), and I do not overfeed. Another way to think about this
organic pollution is to decide what effect a dead and rotting fish would
have in your aquarium. The shrimp 'juice' might represent one or two
small Neon Tetra's worth of organic matter. Most of my tank set-ups
would absorb the decay of a dozen Neon Tetras without a ripple. Perhaps
a gruesome method to put a different perspective on your question, but
anyone who has fished a skeleton out would have an idea of their tank's
ability to harmlessly process decay, (and in an aquarium, there is always
something in decay).

NetMax

> http://www.cearbhaill.com/aquarium.htm
>
>

[NetMax]

Big time, but I never rinse/strain my frozen foods, ever, honest.

I just have to remember to explain why, what works for me, works for me.

NetMax

"Buckaroo" > wrote in message
...
> Spinning, huh Max.
>
> > Most good answers in the aquarium trade start with "it depends" ;~),
> > followed by a bunch of questions, and then the answer is still
heavily
> > rooted in personal experience and opinion.
>
>

[Stan]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Stan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > A point of interest.
> > These days, modern refridgerators are frost free. They accomplish
this
> feat
> > by heating up the freezer compartment to melt away the frost and
> draining
> > this water to a pan underneath where the heat causes it to
evaporate.
> Ever
> > notice that those frozen flats of bloodworms, brineshrimp, ...etc
> little
> > bubbles tend to get smaller with more air space after a while.....
Its
> > melts and refreezes many many times. But, it depends on your
fridges
> > defrost cycle times and how long (or much) frozen food you
keep......
> <snip>
>
> Are you certain? I know next to nothing about a defrost cycle, but
I'd
> have thought that the air was being heavily de-humidified causing the
> frost to melt into the air, to be collected in a drip pan somewhere.

Up here in Minnesota, the humidity drops to almost zilch and yet all the
snow remains. :)


> Even if there was a cyclical thaw, wouldn't it be brief enough to only
> cause frost to melt, and not the contents of the packages?

Apparently its long enough over time to melt my shrimp and bloodworm
bubbles. You should see what it does to those cheap ice pops that come
in those plastic tubes. After a month or so there is a couple inches of
air in the little freeze pop and the pop is a hard as a rock chunk of
ice.

You know, I have gotten really spoiled on these frost free fridges. I
have one of those little cheap college kid fridges to keep my fish food
stuff in, and its little freezer has a glazier growing off of it. I
defrosted it once and man......what a mess. I just keep flake and
blackworms in it. I have it turned all the way down so it doesn't
freeze my worms.....anymore. Now it just drips cold condensation off
the freezer compartment into a worm keeper under it.
>
> NetMax
>
>

[Earl D Fitzgerald]

I know this one...

Most refrig/freezers have a defrost timer. The timer controls the
operation of the compressor pump and the defrost heater inside the condesor
core. The timer will turn off the compressor and active the heater coils.
The coils melt the ice on the condesor core until it reachs a temp high
enough to activate a high temp cut out. The cycle is normal 10-15 minutes
long before returning a cooling cycle.

If this defrost cycle is melting your frozen foods your freeze is not set
cold enough to begin with...


Fishboy


"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Stan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > A point of interest.
> > These days, modern refridgerators are frost free. They accomplish this
> feat
> > by heating up the freezer compartment to melt away the frost and
> draining
> > this water to a pan underneath where the heat causes it to evaporate.
> Ever
> > notice that those frozen flats of bloodworms, brineshrimp, ...etc
> little
> > bubbles tend to get smaller with more air space after a while..... Its
> > melts and refreezes many many times. But, it depends on your fridges
> > defrost cycle times and how long (or much) frozen food you keep......
> <snip>
>
> Are you certain? I know next to nothing about a defrost cycle, but I'd
> have thought that the air was being heavily de-humidified causing the
> frost to melt into the air, to be collected in a drip pan somewhere.
> Even if there was a cyclical thaw, wouldn't it be brief enough to only
> cause frost to melt, and not the contents of the packages?
>
> NetMax
>
>

[Racf]

I agree. The phenomenon I am trying to describe is a very slow
progression occurring over many many months. I have bought frozen food
in quantity to last 6 months or so. Those little bubble packs will over
the course will change visibly.......The outside edge will soften a
little and refreeze. The trapped air with the original frozen cube will
over time migrate and accumulate...... Its not like it thaws out and
refreezes.

Tell me your brine shrimp packs do not get harder to break chunks off as
it ages in your freezer versus a fresh one.

Anyway.........thanks for the technical goodies they tasted good.


"Earl D Fitzgerald" > wrote in message
...
> I know this one...
>
> Most refrig/freezers have a defrost timer. The timer controls the
> operation of the compressor pump and the defrost heater inside the
condesor
> core. The timer will turn off the compressor and active the heater
coils.
> The coils melt the ice on the condesor core until it reachs a temp
high
> enough to activate a high temp cut out. The cycle is normal 10-15
minutes
> long before returning a cooling cycle.
>
> If this defrost cycle is melting your frozen foods your freeze is not
set
> cold enough to begin with...
>
>
> Fishboy
>
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> > "Stan" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > A point of interest.
> > > These days, modern refridgerators are frost free. They accomplish
this
> > feat
> > > by heating up the freezer compartment to melt away the frost and
> > draining
> > > this water to a pan underneath where the heat causes it to
evaporate.
> > Ever
> > > notice that those frozen flats of bloodworms, brineshrimp, ...etc
> > little
> > > bubbles tend to get smaller with more air space after a while.....
Its
> > > melts and refreezes many many times. But, it depends on your
fridges
> > > defrost cycle times and how long (or much) frozen food you
keep......
> > <snip>
> >
> > Are you certain? I know next to nothing about a defrost cycle, but
I'd
> > have thought that the air was being heavily de-humidified causing
the
> > frost to melt into the air, to be collected in a drip pan somewhere.
> > Even if there was a cyclical thaw, wouldn't it be brief enough to
only
> > cause frost to melt, and not the contents of the packages?
> >
> > NetMax
> >
> >
>
>

[Gail Futoran]

Some thoughts on frozen fish food. My
experience is recent (last 3-4 months).

I bought the bubble packs of bloodworms &
brine shrimp, but at the start had only a 10G tank.
Out of ignorance, and not wanting to dump an
entire block into a small tank, I "shaved" off
about 1/3 of a block into some extracted tank
water using very sharp scissors, then dumped that
into the tank. Put the remainder of the block in a
baggie and right back into the freezer - no thawing
of the stored stuff. That worked swimmingly
(so to speak), and I've been doing it that way
ever since. The food is instantly edible, I can
decide how much to add to the tanks (now up
to 3 tanks) and I don't get much waste.

I know that technique isn't something that would
work for hobbyists with large and/or many tanks,
but for those of us who have smaller tanks and
want to use frozen food occasionally, I think it
makes sense.

If anyone can see any downsides, please let
me know.

Gail
San Antonio area TX

[Racf]

"Gail Futoran" > wrote in message
...
> Some thoughts on frozen fish food. My
> experience is recent (last 3-4 months).
>
> I bought the bubble packs of bloodworms &
> brine shrimp, but at the start had only a 10G tank.
> Out of ignorance, and not wanting to dump an
> entire block into a small tank, I "shaved" off
> about 1/3 of a block into some extracted tank
> water using very sharp scissors, then dumped that
> into the tank. Put the remainder of the block in a
> baggie and right back into the freezer - no thawing
> of the stored stuff. That worked swimmingly
> (so to speak), and I've been doing it that way
> ever since. The food is instantly edible, I can
> decide how much to add to the tanks (now up
> to 3 tanks) and I don't get much waste.
>
> I know that technique isn't something that would
> work for hobbyists with large and/or many tanks,
> but for those of us who have smaller tanks and
> want to use frozen food occasionally, I think it
> makes sense.
>
> If anyone can see any downsides, please let
> me know.
>
> Gail
> San Antonio area TX
>
>

Sounds good to me.