Re: Cloudy water after water change

[Ron Nelson]

How long has the tank been setup? Sounds like a bacteria bloom in a tank
that hasn't fully cycled yet.

Ron

"Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> I've been meaning to post here about the cloudiness that sets on my large
> tank after I make water changes and fertilize the plants. The small tank
> doesn't get it, just the big one. Yesterday I changed about 30% of the
> water and fertilized with Fluorish, Fluorish Iron, Fluorish Excel, plus I
> added some Freshwater Trace. Like clockwork, the water started turning
> cloudy about an hour after the water change. This morning it's cloudy, but
> it should start clearing this afternoon. I also cleaned the filter
> (Eheim), rinsing all the media in it.
> One interesting aside is that everytime I make a water change, some of the
> usually shy clown loaches come out and hang out all over the tank.
>
> Anybody else get cloudiness after water changes?
>
> Victor M. Martinez
>
> http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv
>
>

[Victor M. Martinez]

Ron Nelson > wrote:
>How long has the tank been setup? Sounds like a bacteria bloom in a tank
>that hasn't fully cycled yet.

Nope, the tank has been cycled for months. All water parameters are perfect.

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

[Racf]

"Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> I've been meaning to post here about the cloudiness that sets on my
large
> tank after I make water changes and fertilize the plants. The small
tank
> doesn't get it, just the big one. Yesterday I changed about 30% of the
> water and fertilized with Fluorish, Fluorish Iron, Fluorish Excel,
plus I
> added some Freshwater Trace. Like clockwork, the water started turning
> cloudy about an hour after the water change. This morning it's cloudy,
but
> it should start clearing this afternoon. I also cleaned the filter
> (Eheim), rinsing all the media in it.
> One interesting aside is that everytime I make a water change, some of
the
> usually shy clown loaches come out and hang out all over the tank.
>
> Anybody else get cloudiness after water changes?
>
> Victor M. Martinez
>
> http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv
>
>

Whats the substrate? Lighting? Change water info? conditioner?

How about doing a water change tonight and not squirting in all that
stuff and see what happens.......

If it does not get cloudy.....as usual....squirt in all but the Excel
and regular Flourish......and from there.....lets see what happens......

I remember one like this from a long while ago. Seems like it was some
sort of chemical reaction.....but ...I do not remember well enough....

[Robert Flory]

Yep.... both my 50 and 55 do the same, never happens in the grandkids gallon
guppy tank. Clears over night with a Acurel F treatment.

Bob
"Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> I've been meaning to post here about the cloudiness that sets on my large
> tank after I make water changes and fertilize the plants. The small tank
> doesn't get it, just the big one. Yesterday I changed about 30% of the
> water and fertilized with Fluorish, Fluorish Iron, Fluorish Excel, plus I
> added some Freshwater Trace. Like clockwork, the water started turning
> cloudy about an hour after the water change. This morning it's cloudy, but
> it should start clearing this afternoon. I also cleaned the filter
> (Eheim), rinsing all the media in it.
> One interesting aside is that everytime I make a water change, some of the
> usually shy clown loaches come out and hang out all over the tank.
>
> Anybody else get cloudiness after water changes?
>
> Victor M. Martinez
>
> http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv
>
>

[Jody Pellerin]

Your tank may be getting too much light. Is it in sun light? Do you leave
your hood lights on a lot? That can and does tend to make the water quite
cloudy.

"Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in message
...
I've been meaning to post here about the cloudiness that sets on my large
tank after I make water changes and fertilize the plants. The small tank
doesn't get it, just the big one. Yesterday I changed about 30% of the
water and fertilized with Fluorish, Fluorish Iron, Fluorish Excel, plus I
added some Freshwater Trace. Like clockwork, the water started turning
cloudy about an hour after the water change. This morning it's cloudy, but
it should start clearing this afternoon. I also cleaned the filter
(Eheim), rinsing all the media in it.
One interesting aside is that everytime I make a water change, some of the
usually shy clown loaches come out and hang out all over the tank.

Anybody else get cloudiness after water changes?

Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv




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[Racf]

"Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> I've been meaning to post here about the cloudiness that sets on my
large
> tank after I make water changes and fertilize the plants. The small
tank
> doesn't get it, just the big one. Yesterday I changed about 30% of the
> water and fertilized with Fluorish, Fluorish Iron, Fluorish Excel,
plus I
> added some Freshwater Trace. Like clockwork, the water started turning
> cloudy about an hour after the water change. This morning it's cloudy,
but
> it should start clearing this afternoon. I also cleaned the filter
> (Eheim), rinsing all the media in it.
> One interesting aside is that everytime I make a water change, some of
the
> usually shy clown loaches come out and hang out all over the tank.
>
> Anybody else get cloudiness after water changes?
>
> Victor M. Martinez
>
> http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv
>
>

I thought I remembered this.....and I tripped over a possibility. It
really has to do with your dissolved C02 levels in your tank and how it
behaves with CaCO3 (Calcium Carbonate). To make a long guess
short.......If your dosing right after a water change...if your CO2
level drops CaCO3 will/could come out of solution and manifest itself as
milky white pooh until it can dissolved back into solution....which can
be a little while. Does your change water contain elevated amounts of
dissolved CO2? Mine does here in MN....

Or can you think of anything that would alter the CO2 level dissolved in
your tank when this happens?

Or even some other chemical reactions could occur that could cause CaCO3
to come out of solution temporarily, but I am no Science wizard.......

[Poe Lim]

Don't change the water and clean the filter at the same time; you are
re-starting the cycling process. Ideally only change half the filter media
at a time, so that some bio-bugs remain. Have seen the same thing happen
when I changed the water AND cleaned all the filter media; what happaned was
power got turned off to the canister filter for over 24 hours, so all bugs
probably dead, so had to kill off what's left, and changed some water to get
rid of N build-up in the tank.

Cheers,
Poe

"Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in message
...

> I've been meaning to post here about the cloudiness that sets on my large
> tank after I make water changes and fertilize the plants. The small tank
> doesn't get it, just the big one. Yesterday I changed about 30% of the
> water and fertilized with Fluorish, Fluorish Iron, Fluorish Excel, plus I
> added some Freshwater Trace. Like clockwork, the water started turning
> cloudy about an hour after the water change. This morning it's cloudy, but
> it should start clearing this afternoon. I also cleaned the filter
> (Eheim), rinsing all the media in it.

[Graham Broadbridge]

"Racf" > wrote in message
...

> I thought I remembered this.....and I tripped over a possibility. It
> really has to do with your dissolved C02 levels in your tank and how it
> behaves with CaCO3 (Calcium Carbonate). To make a long guess
> short.......If your dosing right after a water change...if your CO2
> level drops CaCO3 will/could come out of solution and manifest itself as
> milky white pooh until it can dissolved back into solution....which can
> be a little while. Does your change water contain elevated amounts of
> dissolved CO2? Mine does here in MN....

That's a very interesting train of thought.

My tank has quite high disolved CO2 (around 25ppm due to injection) whereas
the tap water is very low (around 3ppm).

I normally balance alkalinity between new/tank water, but the disolved CO2
will be quite different. Not enough to cause much of a hiccup with the pH
due to the dilution and effect of the CO2 controller, but possibly enough to
give rise to a chemical reaction causing the tank to cloud for a while.

Thanks for the post. Experimentation to follow :-)


Graham.

[Victor M. Martinez]

linda mar > wrote:
>another potentially basic (meaning, stupid) question to ask, is that when
>you wash your media, you're using either an aged water, old tank water or
>de-chlor/de-chloramined water so you don't kill the bacteria colonies...

I guess I should've mentioned that I'm not an idiot. The biomedia was only
rinsed using tank water.


--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

[Victor M. Martinez]

Racf > wrote:
>Whats the substrate? Lighting? Change water info? conditioner?

Gravel mixed with fluorite. (what's the substrate have to do with water
changes?) 1 W/gallon compact fluorescent, 30% water change, tap water from
a municipal source with chloramines and pH of around 9-10. Prime.

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

[Victor M. Martinez]

Racf > wrote:
>be a little while. Does your change water contain elevated amounts of
>dissolved CO2? Mine does here in MN....

Hmmm... it might, but I'm not sure.

>Or even some other chemical reactions could occur that could cause CaCO3
>to come out of solution temporarily, but I am no Science wizard.......

Actually... a change in pH would. That's probably it! Thanks!

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

[Victor M. Martinez]

Poe Lim > wrote:
>Don't change the water and clean the filter at the same time; you are
>re-starting the cycling process. Ideally only change half the filter media

Says who? That's not true if you are using a canister filter with biomedia
that is handled properly. I don't change *any* biomedia.
Like I said before, the water parameters were/are perfect (no ammonia, no
nitrite), which is a sure sign the biofilter is workign properly.

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

[Racf]

"Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Racf > wrote:
> >Whats the substrate? Lighting? Change water info? conditioner?
>
> Gravel mixed with fluorite. (what's the substrate have to do with
water
> changes?)

If it was sand.....you could be blowing dust out of it.....If its
crushed coral you would have a hard time disolving more CaCo3 into the
water.


1 W/gallon compact fluorescent, 30% water change, tap water from
> a municipal source with chloramines and pH of around 9-10. Prime.

Wow the highest pH in city water I have ever heard of.....

THX...

>
> --
> Victor M. Martinez
>
> http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv
>

[Racf]

"Graham Broadbridge" <graham at peachy dot org> wrote in message
u...
> "Racf" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I thought I remembered this.....and I tripped over a possibility.
It
> > really has to do with your dissolved C02 levels in your tank and how
it
> > behaves with CaCO3 (Calcium Carbonate). To make a long guess
> > short.......If your dosing right after a water change...if your CO2
> > level drops CaCO3 will/could come out of solution and manifest
itself as
> > milky white pooh until it can dissolved back into solution....which
can
> > be a little while. Does your change water contain elevated amounts
of
> > dissolved CO2? Mine does here in MN....
>
> That's a very interesting train of thought.
>
> My tank has quite high disolved CO2 (around 25ppm due to injection)
whereas
> the tap water is very low (around 3ppm).
>
> I normally balance alkalinity between new/tank water, but the disolved
CO2
> will be quite different. Not enough to cause much of a hiccup with
the pH
> due to the dilution and effect of the CO2 controller, but possibly
enough to
> give rise to a chemical reaction causing the tank to cloud for a
while.
>
> Thanks for the post. Experimentation to follow :-)
>
>
> Graham.
>
>
>

There are some interesting articles in the APD archives...You can google
into it very quickly.

[Poe Lim]

"Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Poe Lim > wrote:

> >Don't change the water and clean the filter at the same time; you are
> >re-starting the cycling process. Ideally only change half the filter
media
>
> Says who? That's not true if you are using a canister filter with biomedia
> that is handled properly. I don't change *any* biomedia.
> Like I said before, the water parameters were/are perfect (no ammonia, no
> nitrite), which is a sure sign the biofilter is workign properly.

The cloudy water is a sign you have free floating bacteria (assuming it's a
white cloudy appearance) that are multiplying because it has more food
(ammonia & nitirites), because those in your canister is no longer able to
handle the full load. As I said, I have seen that when I did a large water
change and disinfected the (dead) media. The bio-media isn't the only place
the bugs colonise; they also live in the sponges, filter floss etc, and
perhaps in your case the balance is quite fine (as you said, only in the big
tank).

I also wonder what the reaction of Prime is like (I gather that's what you
use); is there sufficient time for the ammonia released to latched onto by
the free floating biobugs, and in the time immediately after the water
change, the system is overloaded. Does anyone know if the ammonia released
from the breakdown of chloramines, although converted to a non-harmful form
for fish, is still availalble o the bugs and plants?

I have to say though the chemical reaction theory is also plausible as your
water is very alkaline.

How do you feel about experimenting, and just changing one parameter at a
time, and see what causes the problem? <G>

Cheers,
Poe

[Racf]

"Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Poe Lim > wrote:
> >handle the full load. As I said, I have seen that when I did a large
water
> >change and disinfected the (dead) media. The bio-media isn't the only
place
>
> What makes you think I disinfected anything? I don't wash my biomedia.
Ever.
>
> >change, the system is overloaded. Does anyone know if the ammonia
released
> >from the breakdown of chloramines, although converted to a
non-harmful form
> >for fish, is still availalble o the bugs and plants?
>
> All water conditioners, including Prime, that neutralize chloramines
also take
> care of the clorine and the ammonia released.
>
> >I have to say though the chemical reaction theory is also plausible
as your
> >water is very alkaline.
>
> My tank water is not alkaline, but the tap water is.



How is this possible/being done?



>
> >How do you feel about experimenting, and just changing one parameter
at a
> >time, and see what causes the problem? <G>
>
> I'll try that. If only I remembered to fertilize weekly instead of
monthly.
> But my plants grow like weeds already, I don't want them to grow any
more. ;)
>
>
> --
> Victor M. Martinez
>
> http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv
>

[Victor M. Martinez]

Racf > wrote:
>> My tank water is not alkaline, but the tap water is.
>
>How is this possible/being done?

Normal metabolic processes in the tank reduce the pH of the water. I think
the alkalinit of the tap water is at least in part produced by CO2, so it's
easily removed by the plants.
The water pH usually hovers around 6.8-7.0, while the tap water is around
9.

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

[JR]

>All water conditioners, including Prime, that neutralize chloramines also
take
>care of the clorine and the ammonia released

Last week I read a post on another group. ie a guy changed water
had major death like 95% of things in tank, he threw out the old
bottle of conditioner and used a new bottle then things worked
as advertized. Might be a consideration.



JR,

[Charlie C.]

"Victor M. Martinez" > wrote in
:

> I've been meaning to post here about the cloudiness that sets on my
> large tank after I make water changes and fertilize the plants. The
> small tank doesn't get it, just the big one. Yesterday I changed about
> 30% of the water and fertilized with Fluorish, Fluorish Iron, Fluorish
> Excel, plus I added some Freshwater Trace. Like clockwork, the water
> started turning cloudy about an hour after the water change. This
> morning it's cloudy, but it should start clearing this afternoon. I
> also cleaned the filter (Eheim), rinsing all the media in it.
> One interesting aside is that everytime I make a water change, some of
> the usually shy clown loaches come out and hang out all over the tank.
>
> Anybody else get cloudiness after water changes?
>
> Victor M. Martinez
>
> http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv
>
>

Here is a possibility... My tank used to get cloudy the day after a water
change link clockwork. Turns out I was using WAY too much chlorene
removerand it must have come out of solution (?) after a while? Whatever, I
started using MUCH less chlorene remover and the problem went away.

Charlie in Houston