Odd Filter Question!

[Ben]

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone had ever hooked up an overhanging powerfilter
to an undergravel filter? I notice that after I have my tank set up for
a while, lots of mulm accumulates under the UGF's bed. (Again, this is
expected and wanted). So every other water change I do, I pull out one
of the extra cap, put the syphon over the hole and suck out as much of
the crap (no pun intended) as I can remove. This works well enough that
I don't mind doing it.

All that being said, I noticed that my Aquaclear 500 is almost exactly
above on of the UGF's tube opening which made me think. Would it be a
good idea to link them. The positives I see is that it would remove
much mulm from the bottom and since it's constant, it won't have time to
build up. The downsides I see are that I have to change the filters
more often this way.

Does anyone see any other negative or positives about this? And/or has
anyone done this before?

TIA
-Ben

[Ben]

~Vicki ~ wrote:
> I have done that in the past and it seemed to do a great job of keeping
> the tank clean. I don't know if it is the best idea tho. Lets wait and
> see what Max has to say first.

HA, that's what I was thinking but I didn't want to down right ask him.
I like a varity of answers but some people have better background
knowledge! In theory, it sounds like a really good way to keep a tank
clean. There must be some negative I'm not seeing as I've never seen it
done before...

-Ben

[~Vicki ~]

OT: I then covered the back wall in petrified wood (to raise my calcium
levels), planted lots of Java ferns (good NH3 control) and dropped 900
Platys in there. At first it was, as expected, a lot of work (water
tests and water change every 12 hours), but now the tank is pristine.
It's a real crowd pleaser, and Platys are the type of fish that like to
be in groups, so they are doing well (I even have babies growing up in
there). Sometimes they go back & forth like a wave, so that 3/4 of them
are all packed into one side, and then they move to the other side. I
hope no one flames me for the fish load, - the tank is in front of my
counter, so it's always under observation, we have never medicated it
for anything, it's filtered as if it's over 200g, it gets 25% w/c twice
a week on a maintenance schedule, and the fish are great (no clamped
fins, no atypical Platy behaviour). I also have a notice on the tank
discussing proper fish loads. I know it was risky, but I had other tanks
ready to move the Platys into in case it was needed, and it worked out
alright. I'm a strong advocate of low fish loads, but these are
commercial tanks. *whew, off my chest* ;~)
NetMax
>
>
>
>
Sounds like it would be an eye popper! It amazes me what can be done
with a little hard work and a little know how when it comes to stocking
an aquarium. Fish behavior has a lot to do with it too. I have a
friend with a 55g tank and in it he has over 100 tiger barbs. They are
doing great and in the two years the tank has been up he has not lost a
fish to anything but natural causes. If you can post a pic of the tank
I would love to see it.

Vicki

[NetMax]

"Robert Flory" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> SNIP
> > OT: I then covered the back wall in petrified wood (to raise my
calcium
> > levels), planted lots of Java ferns (good NH3 control) and dropped
900
> > Platys in there. At first it was, as expected, a lot of work (water
> > tests and water change every 12 hours), but now the tank is pristine.
> > It's a real crowd pleaser, and Platys are the type of fish that like
to
> > be in groups, so they are doing well (I even have babies growing up
in
> > there). Sometimes they go back & forth like a wave, so that 3/4 of
them
> > are all packed into one side, and then they move to the other side.
I
> > hope no one flames me for the fish load, - the tank is in front of my
> > counter, so it's always under observation, we have never medicated it
for
> > anything, it's filtered as if it's over 200g, it gets 25% w/c twice a
> > week on a maintenance schedule, and the fish are great (no clamped
fins,
> > no atypical Platy behaviour). I also have a notice on the tank
> > discussing proper fish loads. I know it was risky, but I had other
tanks
> > ready to move the Platys into in case it was needed, and it worked
out
> > alright. I'm a strong advocate of low fish loads, but these are
> > commercial tanks. *whew, off my chest* ;~)
> >
> > NetMax
> >
> I visited a local Angel Fish breeder a while back. He uses mostly 10
gallon
> tanks, bare bottom, sponges (no other filters) and had some tanks with
fish
> loads (dime to quarter sized fish)10 times the inch per gallon rule.
The
> tanks are kept vac'd spotless and have regular water changes. His fish
are
> beautiful and healthy. Obviously his TDS and dissolved organics are
kept
> low and the water quality is good. Big filters, clean tanks and lots
of
> fresh water make a difference.
>
> Question though..... how many platys in the tank now ;-) I started
with 5
> adults, give them away as fast as I can and I still have 25+ 1" plus
fish
> and more fry than I can count.
>
> Bob

Good question. Periodically I do an inventory of the whole store. Have
you ever tried counting fish? It's definitely an acquired technique ;~)
I'd ballpark that I've got about 300 Platys left in there. It's been
running about 10 weeks now, so 8 a day sounds like what has been selling.
It still seems very full as I started with 900 small Platys and they have
all grown with all that water to swim in (and it doesn't hurt that I
supplement their staple food with frozen shrimp, and frozen baby brine
shrimp). The newborn fry are still quite small (1/2") so probably won't
reach selling maturity before I move them back into the wall tanks.
Unlike home tanks, I have to keep my tanks 'fresh' so about every 4 to 6
months, all display tanks get re-set. I'm thinking of switching the 135g
to a heavily planted (100%) type tank next. It's a shame to break up my
hard water habitat and the auto-gravel vacuum set-up though. I don't
need to decide until I get down to about 200 Platys left.

NetMax

[Ben]

NetMax wrote:
> Did I ever tell you about my automatic gravel vacuum? I installed 4
> large brown UGF plates in the bottom of a 135g, and covered the plates
> with just enough rounded river stones to hide the plates (stones were
> about 3/4" in diameter). I then connected 2 Fluval 404s to the plates.
> This works great!!
>
> The stones are big enough to not hinder the movement of detritus. The
> Fluval's water flow is unhindered by the plates. There is really very
> little UGF functionality, as the plates are only there to collect the
> water uniformly across the bottom. The best part of it, I never gravel
> vacuum (no need :o). This set-up lends itself to top-feeders and algae
> eaters (bottom feeders would starve).

This is what I was thinking about. I was thinking that doing it this
way would remove the biological use of the UGF but it would allow for a
uniform collection leaving a very clean bottom.

I guess since I like bottom feeders, I should probably stay away from
this. I'll just use them both how they're supposed to be used. I swear
by UGFs and don't want to not use them. I'd even try doing a planted
tank with UGFs even though everyone is against them!

Thanks,
Ben

[NetMax]

"Ben" > wrote in message
...
> NetMax wrote:
> > Did I ever tell you about my automatic gravel vacuum? I installed 4
> > large brown UGF plates in the bottom of a 135g, and covered the
plates
> > with just enough rounded river stones to hide the plates (stones were
> > about 3/4" in diameter). I then connected 2 Fluval 404s to the
plates.
> > This works great!!
> >
> > The stones are big enough to not hinder the movement of detritus.
The
> > Fluval's water flow is unhindered by the plates. There is really
very
> > little UGF functionality, as the plates are only there to collect the
> > water uniformly across the bottom. The best part of it, I never
gravel
> > vacuum (no need :o). This set-up lends itself to top-feeders and
algae
> > eaters (bottom feeders would starve).
>
> This is what I was thinking about. I was thinking that doing it this
> way would remove the biological use of the UGF but it would allow for a
> uniform collection leaving a very clean bottom.
>
> I guess since I like bottom feeders, I should probably stay away from
> this. I'll just use them both how they're supposed to be used. I
swear
> by UGFs and don't want to not use them. I'd even try doing a planted
> tank with UGFs even though everyone is against them!
>
> Thanks,
> Ben

PS: You can fine-tune this design. Don't put the UGF plates under all
the aquarium. On the 135g, I'm using four 12"x12" plates, which leaves
me about 5" along the back and each side without plates. I built up this
perimeter with styrofoam sheets (going higher as they go towards the
back). From the front of the tank, the pebbles are sloped up as they go
to the back and sides. Any debris falling to the back, falls to the
level of the styrofoam underneath which is level with the top of the UGF
plates, so it slowly slides down towards the plates. This particular
tank has a healthy snail population, so it supports 2 Yoyo loaches.
Between the perimeter holding food a bit longer, the snails and the
occasional bottom feeder pellets I throw in the back of the tank, the
Yoyos are doing very well. ....so you can have bottom feeders, as long
as you can accommodate them.

ps: none of the styrofoam sheets are glued down. I built it all dry, and
used the weight of the pebbles and rocks to hold everything in place. so
it's really simpler than I might make it sound. I used mostly blue
extruded styrofoam for this project (not sealed with anything), in 1" and
1.5" thickness.

NetMax