My new tank

[José Fdez]

Hi,

At last I'm just finishing setting up my tank, after have been abandoned for
about two years. It have been messier than expected, but was worth the
effort :)

So as my presentation to the group I wanted to describe the set up waiting
for your comments / corrections / advices, I'm almost sure I have commited
some errors.

I'ts a 240 l tank, with a substrate of 7 - 10 cm of black quartz, 2 big
roots with great hidden places for shy fishes, 5 rocks between 10 - 20 cm
width each one, an EHEIM filter of 400 l / h (6 years old) and a 100 W
heater.

The tank is running for 3 weeks now. I had to hurry up becouse my nieces
gived me 4 kois (I'm not sure the exact species, but they're cold water
fishes for sure) that had to stay for 2 days in a tapperware of about 2 l of
cappacity.

As soon as I had the filter running and chlorine removed, moved the 4 fishes
on and had survived very well (they are very tough), I think they must
helped to accelerate in some ammount the cycling of the tank.

A week later I brought in the first pack of plants:

Cryptocoryne Wendtii Brown
Echinodorus Rubra Lucanas
Acorus gramineus
Samolus valerandi
Aponogeton ulvaceus
Samolus valerandi
Anubias barteri
Hemigraphis colorata
Ambulia Sessiliflora

During the first two weeks, the tank wasn't well lighted, because the old
set-up consisted on two 30 watt tubes very aged (more than 18 months). Now I
have a home made new lighting system with 4 x 36 Watt tubes (2 1000 ºk and 2
Gro Lux).

Some of the plants haven't done very well with old light, and some others
have been bitten by the cois, but all of them are recovering really fast
since the new tubes went on.

The actual fish population is the following:

4 kois? (I have become fond of them ;)
10 neon tetras
2 Angelfish
2 Black Ghosts
2 female Betta Splendes

I think it would ver very logical to remove the 4 kois, but I need first to
know the cons of maintaining them on the tank (they seem to do very well,
are very acctive, have very intense colors and are allways hungry).

My plans are to add one ancistrus, a Male Betta Splendes and a pair of Blue
Gouramis. I know I'm mixing hard water fishes with soft water ones, but I
believe the tap water in my city is neutral to soft and all species will do
well.

In case I had to forget the bettas / gouramis, what species would you
recommend to complete the tank?

Ok, I think it's enough for the first mail, in following messages I will
continue to describe the details of the tank. Will appreciate any comment /
advice / etc that could help to achieve success and improve the tank.

Sincerly,

Joseph John

Ps: sorry for my bad English, hadn't practiced it for years ;)

[Marcus Fox]

> As soon as I had the filter running and chlorine removed, moved the 4
fishes
> on and had survived very well (they are very tough), I think they must
> helped to accelerate in some ammount the cycling of the tank.

You can use Amquel to detoxify the ammonia and still have it available to
cycle your biofilter



> The actual fish population is the following:
>
> 4 kois? (I have become fond of them ;)
> 10 neon tetras
> 2 Angelfish
> 2 Black Ghosts
> 2 female Betta Splendes

Soon to be zero neon tetras, your koi should find them very tasty. Koi are
coldwater fish, and the rest are tropicals. I'm not sure how wise it is to
mix them.

>
> I think it would ver very logical to remove the 4 kois, but I need first
to
> know the cons of maintaining them on the tank (they seem to do very well,
> are very acctive, have very intense colors and are allways hungry).
>
> My plans are to add one ancistrus, a Male Betta Splendes and a pair of
Blue
> Gouramis. I know I'm mixing hard water fishes with soft water ones, but I
> believe the tap water in my city is neutral to soft and all species will
do
> well.
>
> In case I had to forget the bettas / gouramis, what species would you
> recommend to complete the tank?
>
> Ok, I think it's enough for the first mail, in following messages I will
> continue to describe the details of the tank. Will appreciate any comment
/
> advice / etc that could help to achieve success and improve the tank.

My advice - If you have a garden, dig a hole and make a pond for the koi and
keep the tropicals in the tank. You can even use pre-formed plastic shapes
you can get at garden/d-i-y centres. Or get another tank for the tropicals,
and keep the koi in the first tank.

Marcus

[NetMax]

"José Fdez" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> At last I'm just finishing setting up my tank, after have been
abandoned for
> about two years. It have been messier than expected, but was worth the
> effort :)
>
> So as my presentation to the group I wanted to describe the set up
waiting
> for your comments / corrections / advices, I'm almost sure I have
commited
> some errors.
>
> I'ts a 240 l tank, with a substrate of 7 - 10 cm of black quartz, 2 big
> roots with great hidden places for shy fishes, 5 rocks between 10 - 20
cm
> width each one, an EHEIM filter of 400 l / h (6 years old) and a 100 W
> heater.

So 63g tank with 3 to 4" of gravel. That's a lot of gravel. The more
you have, the more deeply debris collects, so it's a bit more work to
gravel vaccuum. Your roots will probably release tannic acid into the
water, making it an amber colour. That's ok, if it's the effect you want
and you want to lower your pH and soften your water. How pronounced the
effect will be, depends on the frequency of your water changes.

> The tank is running for 3 weeks now. I had to hurry up becouse my
nieces
> gived me 4 kois (I'm not sure the exact species, but they're cold water
> fishes for sure) that had to stay for 2 days in a tapperware of about 2
l of
> cappacity.
>
> As soon as I had the filter running and chlorine removed, moved the 4
fishes
> on and had survived very well (they are very tough), I think they must
> helped to accelerate in some ammount the cycling of the tank.
>
> A week later I brought in the first pack of plants:
>
> Cryptocoryne Wendtii Brown
> Echinodorus Rubra Lucanas
> Acorus gramineus
> Samolus valerandi
> Aponogeton ulvaceus
> Samolus valerandi
> Anubias barteri
> Hemigraphis colorata
> Ambulia Sessiliflora
>
> During the first two weeks, the tank wasn't well lighted, because the
old
> set-up consisted on two 30 watt tubes very aged (more than 18 months).
Now I
> have a home made new lighting system with 4 x 36 Watt tubes (2 1000 ºk
and 2
> Gro Lux).
>
> Some of the plants haven't done very well with old light, and some
others
> have been bitten by the cois, but all of them are recovering really
fast
> since the new tubes went on.
>
> The actual fish population is the following:
>
> 4 kois? (I have become fond of them ;)
> 10 neon tetras
> 2 Angelfish
> 2 Black Ghosts
> 2 female Betta Splendes
>
> I think it would ver very logical to remove the 4 kois, but I need
first to
> know the cons of maintaining them on the tank (they seem to do very
well,
> are very acctive, have very intense colors and are allways hungry).

The Koi are from the carp family (as are Goldfish) and are generally not
mixed with tropical fish. They prefer colder harder water, with a bit of
salt. They are swimming food processors and they generate a lot of
waste. They also grow several feet long and live a long time (I was told
the record is 100 years). Not as bad as Goldfish, but Koi also like to
put everything into their mouth, and this includes most if not all
aquatic plants.

NetMax

> My plans are to add one ancistrus, a Male Betta Splendes and a pair of
Blue
> Gouramis. I know I'm mixing hard water fishes with soft water ones, but
I
> believe the tap water in my city is neutral to soft and all species
will do
> well.
>
> In case I had to forget the bettas / gouramis, what species would you
> recommend to complete the tank?
>
> Ok, I think it's enough for the first mail, in following messages I
will
> continue to describe the details of the tank. Will appreciate any
comment /
> advice / etc that could help to achieve success and improve the tank.
>
> Sincerly,
>
> Joseph John
>
> Ps: sorry for my bad English, hadn't practiced it for years ;)
>
>

[Justice]

Hi all, first off thank you for you answers to my other posts. I went
out and got myself a test kit, and 2 Clown Loaches to help with my
snails. I was going to get more plants for the glowlights to hide in but
too expensive at the moment. I did my first test today and my readings
are: ph-7.2, amon-0, nitrite-6, nitrate->40. I don't have a hardness
test at the moment. I know the Nitrite is high so I did a 20% water
change. I think the other levels are ok. Does anybody here live in the
Edmonton Alberta area that can tell me of a few good stores

Thanks

[Elaine T]

Justice wrote:
> Hi all, first off thank you for you answers to my other posts. I went
> out and got myself a test kit, and 2 Clown Loaches to help with my
> snails. I was going to get more plants for the glowlights to hide in but
> too expensive at the moment. I did my first test today and my readings
> are: ph-7.2, amon-0, nitrite-6, nitrate->40. I don't have a hardness
> test at the moment. I know the Nitrite is high so I did a 20% water
> change. I think the other levels are ok. Does anybody here live in the
> Edmonton Alberta area that can tell me of a few good stores
>
> Thanks

Nitrite 6?!? Could it be 0.6? Test again and if the reading or 6 ppm
seems accurate, you need to change more water than 20%. IMO, nitrite
should be kept below 2 ppm. At nitrites above 1 ppm, I like to start an
airstone and add 1 tsp salt/5 gallons of water to reverse some of the
nitrite toxicity.

Nitrate at 40 ppm is also higher than most folks like to run fishtanks,
but not at all dangerous. It just means you should gravel vac more
frequently and change more water.


pH 7.2 is ideal for community fish. I'm jealous.

Be sure not to add any more fish until your nitrites are ABSOLUTELY
zero. No color on the test kit at all.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

Elaine T wrote:
> Justice wrote:
>
>> Hi all, first off thank you for you answers to my other posts. I went
>> out and got myself a test kit, and 2 Clown Loaches to help with my
>> snails. I was going to get more plants for the glowlights to hide in
>> but too expensive at the moment. I did my first test today and my
>> readings are: ph-7.2, amon-0, nitrite-6, nitrate->40. I don't have a
>> hardness test at the moment. I know the Nitrite is high so I did a
>> 20% water change. I think the other levels are ok. Does anybody here
>> live in the Edmonton Alberta area that can tell me of a few good stores
>>
>> Thanks
>
>
> Nitrite 6?!? Could it be 0.6? Test again and if the reading or 6 ppm
> seems accurate, you need to change more water than 20%. IMO, nitrite
> should be kept below 2 ppm. At nitrites above 1 ppm, I like to start an
> airstone and add 1 tsp salt/5 gallons of water to reverse some of the
> nitrite toxicity.
>
> Nitrate at 40 ppm is also higher than most folks like to run fishtanks,
> but not at all dangerous. It just means you should gravel vac more
> frequently and change more water.
>
>
> pH 7.2 is ideal for community fish. I'm jealous.
>
> Be sure not to add any more fish until your nitrites are ABSOLUTELY
> zero. No color on the test kit at all.
>
BTW from my experience the Clown Loaches might be sensitive to bad water
quality...keep a close eye out for any signs of Ich (white grain like
spots). If you see any treat immediately....post again for details on
how to treat....

Gill

[Justice]

Gill Passman wrote:
> Elaine T wrote:
>
>> Justice wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, first off thank you for you answers to my other posts. I went
>>> out and got myself a test kit, and 2 Clown Loaches to help with my
>>> snails. I was going to get more plants for the glowlights to hide in
>>> but too expensive at the moment. I did my first test today and my
>>> readings are: ph-7.2, amon-0, nitrite-6, nitrate->40. I don't have a
>>> hardness test at the moment. I know the Nitrite is high so I did a
>>> 20% water change. I think the other levels are ok. Does anybody here
>>> live in the Edmonton Alberta area that can tell me of a few good stores
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Nitrite 6?!? Could it be 0.6? Test again and if the reading or 6 ppm
>> seems accurate, you need to change more water than 20%. IMO, nitrite
>> should be kept below 2 ppm. At nitrites above 1 ppm, I like to start
>> an airstone and add 1 tsp salt/5 gallons of water to reverse some of
>> the nitrite toxicity.
>>
>> Nitrate at 40 ppm is also higher than most folks like to run
>> fishtanks, but not at all dangerous. It just means you should gravel
>> vac more frequently and change more water.
>>
>>
>> pH 7.2 is ideal for community fish. I'm jealous.
>>
>> Be sure not to add any more fish until your nitrites are ABSOLUTELY
>> zero. No color on the test kit at all.
>>
> BTW from my experience the Clown Loaches might be sensitive to bad water
> quality...keep a close eye out for any signs of Ich (white grain like
> spots). If you see any treat immediately....post again for details on
> how to treat....
>
> Gill
Well I tested again this morning and it was about 3 so yes the 6 was
right. so I changed about a third of the water and added extra
conditioner to the added water. I will test again in the
morning(noonish) and probably have to change more water, should I add
extra conditioner as I was told this was a good idea by someone I know
if it's still above 1?. No sign of white spots yet(knock on wood). Also
dose canuck know of any canadian online fish/plant seller that are good?

Thanks All for all of your help.

[Elaine T]

Justice wrote:
> Gill Passman wrote:
>
>> Elaine T wrote:
>>
>>> Justice wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all, first off thank you for you answers to my other posts. I
>>>> went out and got myself a test kit, and 2 Clown Loaches to help with
>>>> my snails. I was going to get more plants for the glowlights to hide
>>>> in but too expensive at the moment. I did my first test today and my
>>>> readings are: ph-7.2, amon-0, nitrite-6, nitrate->40. I don't have a
>>>> hardness test at the moment. I know the Nitrite is high so I did a
>>>> 20% water change. I think the other levels are ok. Does anybody here
>>>> live in the Edmonton Alberta area that can tell me of a few good stores
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nitrite 6?!? Could it be 0.6? Test again and if the reading or 6
>>> ppm seems accurate, you need to change more water than 20%. IMO,
>>> nitrite should be kept below 2 ppm. At nitrites above 1 ppm, I like
>>> to start an airstone and add 1 tsp salt/5 gallons of water to reverse
>>> some of the nitrite toxicity.
>>>
>>> Nitrate at 40 ppm is also higher than most folks like to run
>>> fishtanks, but not at all dangerous. It just means you should gravel
>>> vac more frequently and change more water.
>>>
>>>
>>> pH 7.2 is ideal for community fish. I'm jealous.
>>>
>>> Be sure not to add any more fish until your nitrites are ABSOLUTELY
>>> zero. No color on the test kit at all.
>>>
>> BTW from my experience the Clown Loaches might be sensitive to bad
>> water quality...keep a close eye out for any signs of Ich (white grain
>> like spots). If you see any treat immediately....post again for
>> details on how to treat....
>>
>> Gill
>
> Well I tested again this morning and it was about 3 so yes the 6 was
> right. so I changed about a third of the water and added extra
> conditioner to the added water. I will test again in the
> morning(noonish) and probably have to change more water, should I add
> extra conditioner as I was told this was a good idea by someone I know
> if it's still above 1?. No sign of white spots yet(knock on wood). Also
> dose canuck know of any canadian online fish/plant seller that are good?
>
> Thanks All for all of your help.

You're welcome. :-)

Hard to say with the water conditioners. You need the proper amount of
dechlorinator, of course. Beyond that, people here have sometimes had
problems cycling tanks when they lock up too much ammonia or nitrite
with chemicals like Prime. I think if you keep adding 1 tsp/5 gallons
salt to your replacement water and can keep the nitrites below 2 ppm,
your fish should be OK.

Watch for early signs of nitrite toxicity to be sure your fish are doing
OK. Acute nitrite toxicity causes fish to have trouble getting enough
oxygen. Fish tend to stay quite still, gill hard, or hang out near the
surface.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com