I'm getting africans!!! - same as what I posted in alt.aquaria

[Paul]

Guys, I decided to buy a 5x2x2 aquarium a few days ago (haven't actually
got it just yet), and I was thinking of getting Australian natives, but I've
been lured (no pun intended) to the beauty and charm of the mouth brooding
Africans.

I guess it's the colours that really made up my mind!!

I want to setup as follows:

5x2x2 (540Litres, about 130 gallons)

Coral sand or similiar sunstrate

I want to create a "reef" style decor, with some dead coral and rocks etc
forming a large structure in the middle of the tank that rises almost to the
top of the water, with lots of caves and crevices. (imagine a reef setting
with all the fish swimming in and around it).

I propose to develop my own filtration system, with bio, mechanical and
chemical filtration. As I am buying the tank directly from a manufacturer
(www.aquariumsrus.com.au) , I'll get them to drill a hole in the side near
the top, so the water just falls into a connecting pipe from this hole down
into the cabinet below, and run this pipe into a bed of sythetic filter
wool, and then fall down into a 20 litre container of volcanic rock pieces
which I will use as my bio filter medium. (LFS says 1 litre of this stuff is
enough to do 1000l of tank water). from there the water will fall down into
a removal box of charcoal, and fall through this into a sump. I want this
sump to be as large as possible, hope another 50-100litres so I have a
greater volume of water for my fish.

From here I will have my pump pump the water back up into the tank.

I will safeguard against tank over flow by ensuring the inlet for the pump
in the sump is sitting close enough to the water line so as to run dry
before the tank can overflow. If the water level in the sump should get low
enough to run the pump dry, I will have sensor in the sump that will turn
off the pump. (my flatmate is an electronics engineer).

I will have "overflow hoses" running from each step of the process running
directly into the sump, so that if any of the main hoses get clogged with
cotton wool or filter rocks, it won't overflow.

I think this is quite ingenious actually!!!

what I really need to know is:

1. do you think this sounds pretty good??

2. I'm going to a book on africans ASAP, and decide which species I want. at
the moment I want to get a breeding colony going of maybe 3 different
species, and then just a couple of nice single or pairs of fish for a bit of
variety. I want to get maybe 2 male and 5-6 female of electric blues, same
for electric yellow and one other species.

will my tank be able to handle this??
should I expect harmony, or will i have a constant battle?
what is the likelyhood of successful spawning if my water paramaters are
almost perfect?

3. Can I get away with any plants with africans? I have heard it is almost
impossible to keep plants with africans...

4. anything else I should be aware of?!?!

if you are still with me after all that, thanks for reading this !!!

[NetMax]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> Guys, I decided to buy a 5x2x2 aquarium a few days ago (haven't
actually
> got it just yet), and I was thinking of getting Australian natives, but
I've
> been lured (no pun intended) to the beauty and charm of the mouth
brooding
> Africans.

Nice size tank. You could still set up Rainbowfish as dither to mbuna
cichlids.

> I guess it's the colours that really made up my mind!!
>
> I want to setup as follows:
>
> 5x2x2 (540Litres, about 130 gallons)
>
> Coral sand or similiar sunstrate

I've never found the mbuna to be very particular about substrates (unless
you are getting shellies). They just dig & dig. I tend to use gravel,
dolomite when I need to harden the water and regular gravel when I don't.
I find the coral sand/substrate very bright, and all that reflection
coming from under a fish is a bit un-natural. These are just random
opinions for your consideration.

> I want to create a "reef" style decor, with some dead coral and rocks
etc
> forming a large structure in the middle of the tank that rises almost
to the
> top of the water, with lots of caves and crevices. (imagine a reef
setting
> with all the fish swimming in and around it).

Sounds great. Slip a piece of styrofoam under the tank to fill the gap
(if any) between the bottom plate and your stand's shelf (it should not
be bigger than the gap). Put the entire tank on a thin piece of
styrofoam (for any uneveness in the stand). I use expanded polystyrene
(the usually white bubbly Styrofoam) for this. Then put yet one more
piece of styrofoam inside the tank on the glass bottom (I use extruded
polystyrene for this, not the bubbly stuff).

This will create an infrastructure which is much more capable of handling
i) the extra total weight of your rockwork, ii) the concentration of the
weight in the center of the tank as you described, iii) the pressure pin
points of the bottom stones which could damage the glass if there was
contact. An extra bonus is that the inside styrofoam sheet will grib the
stones making structural collapse less likely (note that when building
rockwork to the water's surface, any collapse will be able to contact the
sides on the way down).

When building your structure, I've found grouping the stones in threes to
be the most structurally effective method. Put down 3 stones of similar
height and span a large stone across them. Build 2 more similar
structures, and then put stones spanning across the 3 pyramids. Shake
the structure periodically to see if there is any wobble. On this solid
foundation, you can then go up another level, or start placing more
randomized stones, always checking for wobble & balance as you go.
Underwater, the stones are much lighter (relatively, by water
displacement), so a small wobble in the air will be even less stable
underwater. Built ALL your structural stonework without any substrate in
the tank. Cichlids dig, and if substrate were part of the structure's
integrity, the fish could undermine the stones with their excavations.

While coral rockwork and Lavarock might look realistic, it is also very
abrasive on the fish's sides. Consider using more rounded stones.

> I propose to develop my own filtration system, with bio, mechanical and
> chemical filtration. As I am buying the tank directly from a
manufacturer
> (www.aquariumsrus.com.au) , I'll get them to drill a hole in the side
near
> the top, so the water just falls into a connecting pipe from this hole
down
> into the cabinet below, and run this pipe into a bed of sythetic
filter
> wool, and then fall down into a 20 litre container of volcanic rock
pieces
> which I will use as my bio filter medium. (LFS says 1 litre of this
stuff is
> enough to do 1000l of tank water). from there the water will fall down
into
> a removal box of charcoal, and fall through this into a sump. I want
this
> sump to be as large as possible, hope another 50-100litres so I have a
> greater volume of water for my fish.
>
> From here I will have my pump pump the water back up into the tank.
>
> I will safeguard against tank over flow by ensuring the inlet for the
pump
> in the sump is sitting close enough to the water line so as to run dry
> before the tank can overflow. If the water level in the sump should get
low
> enough to run the pump dry, I will have sensor in the sump that will
turn
> off the pump. (my flatmate is an electronics engineer).

Reliability is inversely proportional to the complexity of a system (and
aquarium filtration reliabilty is paramount). Be sure to test all your
what-if conditions, and install redundancy where possible.

> I will have "overflow hoses" running from each step of the process
running
> directly into the sump, so that if any of the main hoses get clogged
with
> cotton wool or filter rocks, it won't overflow.
>
> I think this is quite ingenious actually!!!
>
> what I really need to know is:
>
> 1. do you think this sounds pretty good??

I love big aquarium projects, and no two should ever be the same.

> 2. I'm going to a book on africans ASAP, and decide which species I
want. at
> the moment I want to get a breeding colony going of maybe 3 different
> species, and then just a couple of nice single or pairs of fish for a
bit of
> variety. I want to get maybe 2 male and 5-6 female of electric blues,
same
> for electric yellow and one other species.
>
> will my tank be able to handle this??
> should I expect harmony, or will i have a constant battle?
> what is the likelyhood of successful spawning if my water paramaters
are
> almost perfect?

That single question could take an entire book to answer. I generally do
about 1 species per 20g (for that size tank). With a bottom feeder crew
and algea eating brigade, that leaves you with 4 to 5 species. Because
the mbuna crowd better and the utaka prefer more space, 2 utaka and 3
mbuna types would be a possible mix. I like mixing utaka & mbuna because
it layers the tank nicely. If your choosen mbuna are herbivorous, then
orient your feedings more towards Spirulina, shrimp and a mix of medium
protein pellets, rather than bloodworms, beefheart, turkey heart and meat
based (fishmeal) pellets. It's alright for everyone to eat almost
anything sometimes, but orient your variety towards the most sensitive
diets.

I'd purchase the fish as juveniles and let them grow up together. This
saves some money, but you need to buy a few extra (for some mortality),
and you cannot sex them. Eight of anything will almost always guarantee
a pair. I generally get 2 pairs out of every six, so ymmv.

Regarding harmony ;~)..... I think the effect you seek is an equilibrium
maintained without harm to any fish.

Regarding spawning :o)..... Try to stop them. With anything approaching
adequate conditions, your mbuna population will grow & grow.

Regarding your selection, make your choices very carefully. You will not
be catching anyone in the tank anytime soon, unless you are willing to
remove almost every stone, or you have lots of experience and special
talents in guile, skill & cunning.

> 3. Can I get away with any plants with africans? I have heard it is
almost
> impossible to keep plants with africans...

Consider the hazards, accomodate them and you can have a planted cichlid
tank.
i) they eat them, so plant the tank first (will be more likely regarded
as scenary, rather than salad)
ii) they uproot them accidentally (protect their roots using pots, vases,
rocks, screens etc)
iii) they uproot them on purpose (seal the area above their roots, using
egg-crate, screens, large stones etc, or get floating plants)
iv) the nibble them when nervous, bored or hungry (select thick leaved
plants like Swords & Anubius or bad tasting plants like Onion bulbs, or
very fast growing plants).

> 4. anything else I should be aware of?!?!

tons, but then I'd have to charge you by the hour ;~)

> if you are still with me after all that, thanks for reading this !!!

Have fun. Be sure to post your potential choices for your new community.
NetMax

[Paul]

NetMax wrote in message >...
>
>"Paul" > wrote in message
...
>> Guys, I decided to buy a 5x2x2 aquarium a few days ago (haven't
>actually
>> got it just yet), and I was thinking of getting Australian natives, but
>I've
>> been lured (no pun intended) to the beauty and charm of the mouth
>brooding
>> Africans.
>
>Nice size tank. You could still set up Rainbowfish as dither to mbuna
>cichlids.
>
>> I guess it's the colours that really made up my mind!!
>>
>> I want to setup as follows:
>>
>> 5x2x2 (540Litres, about 130 gallons)
>>
>> Coral sand or similiar sunstrate
>
>I've never found the mbuna to be very particular about substrates (unless
>you are getting shellies). They just dig & dig. I tend to use gravel,
>dolomite when I need to harden the water and regular gravel when I don't.
>I find the coral sand/substrate very bright, and all that reflection
>coming from under a fish is a bit un-natural. These are just random
>opinions for your consideration.
>
>> I want to create a "reef" style decor, with some dead coral and rocks
>etc
>> forming a large structure in the middle of the tank that rises almost
>to the
>> top of the water, with lots of caves and crevices. (imagine a reef
>setting
>> with all the fish swimming in and around it).
>
>Sounds great. Slip a piece of styrofoam under the tank to fill the gap
>(if any) between the bottom plate and your stand's shelf (it should not
>be bigger than the gap). Put the entire tank on a thin piece of
>styrofoam (for any uneveness in the stand). I use expanded polystyrene
>(the usually white bubbly Styrofoam) for this. Then put yet one more
>piece of styrofoam inside the tank on the glass bottom (I use extruded
>polystyrene for this, not the bubbly stuff).
>
>This will create an infrastructure which is much more capable of handling
>i) the extra total weight of your rockwork, ii) the concentration of the
>weight in the center of the tank as you described, iii) the pressure pin
>points of the bottom stones which could damage the glass if there was
>contact. An extra bonus is that the inside styrofoam sheet will grib the
>stones making structural collapse less likely (note that when building
>rockwork to the water's surface, any collapse will be able to contact the
>sides on the way down).
>
>When building your structure, I've found grouping the stones in threes to
>be the most structurally effective method. Put down 3 stones of similar
>height and span a large stone across them. Build 2 more similar
>structures, and then put stones spanning across the 3 pyramids. Shake
>the structure periodically to see if there is any wobble. On this solid
>foundation, you can then go up another level, or start placing more
>randomized stones, always checking for wobble & balance as you go.
>Underwater, the stones are much lighter (relatively, by water
>displacement), so a small wobble in the air will be even less stable
>underwater. Built ALL your structural stonework without any substrate in
>the tank. Cichlids dig, and if substrate were part of the structure's
>integrity, the fish could undermine the stones with their excavations.
>
>While coral rockwork and Lavarock might look realistic, it is also very
>abrasive on the fish's sides. Consider using more rounded stones.
>
>> I propose to develop my own filtration system, with bio, mechanical and
>> chemical filtration. As I am buying the tank directly from a
>manufacturer
>> (www.aquariumsrus.com.au) , I'll get them to drill a hole in the side
>near
>> the top, so the water just falls into a connecting pipe from this hole
>down
>> into the cabinet below, and run this pipe into a bed of sythetic
>filter
>> wool, and then fall down into a 20 litre container of volcanic rock
>pieces
>> which I will use as my bio filter medium. (LFS says 1 litre of this
>stuff is
>> enough to do 1000l of tank water). from there the water will fall down
>into
>> a removal box of charcoal, and fall through this into a sump. I want
>this
>> sump to be as large as possible, hope another 50-100litres so I have a
>> greater volume of water for my fish.
>>
>> From here I will have my pump pump the water back up into the tank.
>>
>> I will safeguard against tank over flow by ensuring the inlet for the
>pump
>> in the sump is sitting close enough to the water line so as to run dry
>> before the tank can overflow. If the water level in the sump should get
>low
>> enough to run the pump dry, I will have sensor in the sump that will
>turn
>> off the pump. (my flatmate is an electronics engineer).
>
>Reliability is inversely proportional to the complexity of a system (and
>aquarium filtration reliabilty is paramount). Be sure to test all your
>what-if conditions, and install redundancy where possible.
>
>> I will have "overflow hoses" running from each step of the process
>running
>> directly into the sump, so that if any of the main hoses get clogged
>with
>> cotton wool or filter rocks, it won't overflow.
>>
>> I think this is quite ingenious actually!!!
>>
>> what I really need to know is:
>>
>> 1. do you think this sounds pretty good??
>
>I love big aquarium projects, and no two should ever be the same.
>
>> 2. I'm going to a book on africans ASAP, and decide which species I
>want. at
>> the moment I want to get a breeding colony going of maybe 3 different
>> species, and then just a couple of nice single or pairs of fish for a
>bit of
>> variety. I want to get maybe 2 male and 5-6 female of electric blues,
>same
>> for electric yellow and one other species.
>>
>> will my tank be able to handle this??
>> should I expect harmony, or will i have a constant battle?
>> what is the likelyhood of successful spawning if my water paramaters
>are
>> almost perfect?
>
>That single question could take an entire book to answer. I generally do
>about 1 species per 20g (for that size tank). With a bottom feeder crew
>and algea eating brigade, that leaves you with 4 to 5 species. Because
>the mbuna crowd better and the utaka prefer more space, 2 utaka and 3
>mbuna types would be a possible mix. I like mixing utaka & mbuna because
>it layers the tank nicely. If your choosen mbuna are herbivorous, then
>orient your feedings more towards Spirulina, shrimp and a mix of medium
>protein pellets, rather than bloodworms, beefheart, turkey heart and meat
>based (fishmeal) pellets. It's alright for everyone to eat almost
>anything sometimes, but orient your variety towards the most sensitive
>diets.
>
>I'd purchase the fish as juveniles and let them grow up together. This
>saves some money, but you need to buy a few extra (for some mortality),
>and you cannot sex them. Eight of anything will almost always guarantee
>a pair. I generally get 2 pairs out of every six, so ymmv.
>
>Regarding harmony ;~)..... I think the effect you seek is an equilibrium
>maintained without harm to any fish.
>
>Regarding spawning :o)..... Try to stop them. With anything approaching
>adequate conditions, your mbuna population will grow & grow.
>
>Regarding your selection, make your choices very carefully. You will not
>be catching anyone in the tank anytime soon, unless you are willing to
>remove almost every stone, or you have lots of experience and special
>talents in guile, skill & cunning.
>
>> 3. Can I get away with any plants with africans? I have heard it is
>almost
>> impossible to keep plants with africans...
>
>Consider the hazards, accomodate them and you can have a planted cichlid
>tank.
>i) they eat them, so plant the tank first (will be more likely regarded
>as scenary, rather than salad)
>ii) they uproot them accidentally (protect their roots using pots, vases,
>rocks, screens etc)
>iii) they uproot them on purpose (seal the area above their roots, using
>egg-crate, screens, large stones etc, or get floating plants)
>iv) the nibble them when nervous, bored or hungry (select thick leaved
>plants like Swords & Anubius or bad tasting plants like Onion bulbs, or
>very fast growing plants).
>
>> 4. anything else I should be aware of?!?!
>
>tons, but then I'd have to charge you by the hour ;~)
>
>> if you are still with me after all that, thanks for reading this !!!
>
>Have fun. Be sure to post your potential choices for your new community.
>NetMax
>


here is the latest on a conversation that frank and I have been having
Netmax, you might like to join in:
Hi Frank, last time we "spoke" I left you saying I needed to get some advise
from the LFS man, (who I trust and believe btw).

so I've done that now and he suggested I should set up a system with an
internal powerhead/ internal filter to provide a large flow rate, and then
use a trickle filter (the setup I previously described to you) as well. he
thought this should be enough for a 500L tank.

so basically the internal filter is doing alot of mechanical filtration and
also blasting around the solid waste so it can be picked up in the trickle
filter...

I will take on board your comments which I will remind you of here:
***
I'd keep away from an over-flow system unless it is taken from the bottom. I
have done this by piping the over-flow up the cornor or center back of the
tank, and siliconing plastic across the cornor, or "V" around a center
overflow. The plastic is as high as the tank, keeping the water from going
over
it. Drill 1" holes through the bottom of the plastic, above, or at the
substrate hight, for the water inlet. I put a green 3-M scrub pad over the
inlet to keep fish out, and it works great as a pre-filter.
***
SO the basic gist of this is to take the water from the bottom of the tank.
you kind of stopped short of expalining the full story here though. so we
have a sectioned off triangular prism in one corner of the tank, with some
1-inch inlet holes in the bottom.

I presume the system works by sucking water in through the bottom and
travels up the triangular pipe we have created and over the "spillway" and
down into the sump. does the flow have the power to lift the solid
particilate waste up the pipe and over the spillway? I guess even if it
didn't, the waste would accumulate at the bottom corner for easy removal?

I could get a gravity feed going that would have a good suck to it, and have
the pipe down near the substrate, I could change the flow rate of the
gravity feed as simply as a tap.. of course if the suction was lost and the
gravity feed stopped, I'd have to have safeguards to prevent against
overflow. alternatively I could have a pump inside the tank, pumping it
into the sump.. I guess this takes the "simple" factor away and I would
need to take safeguards to ensure I don't empty my tank onto the lounge room
floor.

on a side note I have gone to the LFS and taken down a list of all the
africans they sell and I will be researching them tonight!

[NetMax]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> Ok guys, I have been doing plenty of research on this topic now, I have
come
> up with a master plan,
>
> THIS PLAN HAS BEEN SHOT DOWN BY THE GUY I WANT TO BUY THE TANK OFF -
WE'LL
> GET TO THAT SOON.
>
> I'm going to silicon a piece of perspex/glass in the corner to form the
> triangle as we have already discussed. In the bottom of this piece of
> glass, will be two or 3 holes drilled, just above the substrate level
for
> water inflow.
>
> This will rise up the column with the assistance of an airstone,
providing
> some extra lift.
>
> From here the water will travel down a "stand pipe" which will fall
down
> into the filter below the tank via a hole in the bottom of the tank.
The
> stand pipe will have a "slurp and gurgle" prevention measure: a t-joint
and
> an elbow so it will look like this:
>
> ______________
> ~~| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |~~~~~~~ Water level
> | __ ___ |
> | | | |
> | |
> | |
> | |
> | | |
> \/
> to sump
>
>
> I was thinking of having two of these in each back corner of the tank ,
and
> joining up with a t-joint at the back of the aquarium. I imagine doing
this
> I will have to experiment with the inlet holes in my piece of perspex
to
> ensure I get a good enough "suck" to pull through enough waste.
>
> I want to then get another bottom hole drilled, for the water inlet.
>
> The advantage of this is that everything is nicely contained and there
are
> no pipes hanging off the tank anywhere.
>
> BUT! THE local aquarium manufacturer reckons putting even one hole in
the
> bottom can damage the structural integrity of the tank, and these holes
will
> not be able to be drilled right near the side of the glass because the
main
> support beams of the wooden stand are directly below the sides. fair
enough
> I guess.
>
> He recommended just cutting a whole in the side of the pipe and using a
> swivel-able elbow joint inside the tank as an inlet, to control the
water
> height. (his hoods cover the top 30 mm of the tank ( ~ 1 inch) so I
can
> hide the water line.)
>
> He didn't like the idea of the perspex triangular prism in the corner
but I
> told him I would be doing this anyway.
>
> so that's where it stands now... I'm really enjoying this project but I
am
> starting to look forward to talking actuall fish with you guys soon!!!
>
> So looks like that is how it will end up.

It all sounds do-able. If a manufacturer had doubts about the structural
integrity of his glass bottom after being drilled, I would be concerned
too. It's a significant investment of livestock, a lot of water (150g)
and you will have a lot of stonework in there. Perhaps the standard
drilled-bottom tanks use a thicker gauge of glass? ymmv

A point on your return (water inlet) coming directly into the tank from
the bottom. If I understand what you are doing (and there is a good
chance that I don't), then this approach will be very fault intolerant.
It means all your plumbing below will be at more than the tank's maximum
pressure. A failure of any of the couplings, or even the pump stopping
will create a potential backwash situation draining the tank. A
checkvalve would be a good idea, but even that has couplings which could
fail.

A last point, (just floating concepts) what is your motive for designing
a better filtration system? Is there a particular weakness which you
want to address, or a feature you want to incorporate? Some of the
systems we have discussed are designed for commercial set-ups where there
is specific requirements (ie: handing huge fish-loads). Hiding plumbing
is fairly easy to do when using lots of rockscaping, and conventional
filtration systems exist to meet most requirements.... just being devil's
advocate ;~)

NetMax

[Racf]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Paul" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ok guys, I have been doing plenty of research on this topic now, I
have
> come
> > up with a master plan,
> >
> > THIS PLAN HAS BEEN SHOT DOWN BY THE GUY I WANT TO BUY THE TANK OFF -
> WE'LL
> > GET TO THAT SOON.
> >
> > I'm going to silicon a piece of perspex/glass in the corner to form
the
> > triangle as we have already discussed. In the bottom of this piece
of
> > glass, will be two or 3 holes drilled, just above the substrate
level
> for
> > water inflow.
> >
> > This will rise up the column with the assistance of an airstone,
> providing
> > some extra lift.
> >
> > From here the water will travel down a "stand pipe" which will fall
> down
> > into the filter below the tank via a hole in the bottom of the tank.
> The
> > stand pipe will have a "slurp and gurgle" prevention measure: a
t-joint
> and
> > an elbow so it will look like this:
> >
> > ______________
> > ~~| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |~~~~~~~ Water level
> > | __ ___ |
> > | | | |
> > | |
> > | |
> > | |
> > | | |
> > \/
> > to sump
> >
> >
> > I was thinking of having two of these in each back corner of the
tank ,
> and
> > joining up with a t-joint at the back of the aquarium. I imagine
doing
> this
> > I will have to experiment with the inlet holes in my piece of
perspex
> to
> > ensure I get a good enough "suck" to pull through enough waste.
> >
> > I want to then get another bottom hole drilled, for the water inlet.
> >
> > The advantage of this is that everything is nicely contained and
there
> are
> > no pipes hanging off the tank anywhere.
> >
> > BUT! THE local aquarium manufacturer reckons putting even one hole
in
> the
> > bottom can damage the structural integrity of the tank, and these
holes
> will
> > not be able to be drilled right near the side of the glass because
the
> main
> > support beams of the wooden stand are directly below the sides. fair
> enough
> > I guess.
> >
> > He recommended just cutting a whole in the side of the pipe and
using a
> > swivel-able elbow joint inside the tank as an inlet, to control the
> water
> > height. (his hoods cover the top 30 mm of the tank ( ~ 1 inch) so I
> can
> > hide the water line.)
> >
> > He didn't like the idea of the perspex triangular prism in the
corner
> but I
> > told him I would be doing this anyway.
> >
> > so that's where it stands now... I'm really enjoying this project
but I
> am
> > starting to look forward to talking actuall fish with you guys
soon!!!
> >
> > So looks like that is how it will end up.
>
> It all sounds do-able. If a manufacturer had doubts about the
structural
> integrity of his glass bottom after being drilled, I would be
concerned
> too. It's a significant investment of livestock, a lot of water
(150g)
> and you will have a lot of stonework in there. Perhaps the standard
> drilled-bottom tanks use a thicker gauge of glass? ymmv
>
> A point on your return (water inlet) coming directly into the tank
from
> the bottom. If I understand what you are doing (and there is a good
> chance that I don't), then this approach will be very fault
intolerant.
> It means all your plumbing below will be at more than the tank's
maximum
> pressure. A failure of any of the couplings, or even the pump
stopping
> will create a potential backwash situation draining the tank. A
> checkvalve would be a good idea, but even that has couplings which
could
> fail.
>
> A last point, (just floating concepts) what is your motive for
designing
> a better filtration system? Is there a particular weakness which you
> want to address, or a feature you want to incorporate? Some of the
> systems we have discussed are designed for commercial set-ups where
there
> is specific requirements (ie: handing huge fish-loads). Hiding
plumbing
> is fairly easy to do when using lots of rockscaping, and conventional
> filtration systems exist to meet most requirements.... just being
devil's
> advocate ;~)
>
> NetMax
>
>

All Glass sells a lot of models with the corner overflows, which is all
this really is.... Its fairly common. The only difference I see is the
desire for holes at the bottom to allow the solid waste to exit. I
imagine the results will not be perfect in their removal. A few emperor
filters (3) would work a lot better, but the corner overflows do well to
rid the undissolved Organic pollutants we usually call protein. I have
found from experience, we rarely service canisters as often as they need
to be due to the hassle.. Hang-ons are simply too easy to service and
the bio-wheels are hard to beat. The corner overflows with canisters
are too much trouble and risk with no real advantage in filtering other
than the surface skimming advantage. The surface skimming is something
that has not been a issue for me given what I feed and the good surface
movement I have.

At least for me, the canister filter's era is over. I can envision
applications for it, but none of them are anything I am involved with.
No matter what filtering choices are made, if you have gravel, it will
need to be cleaned weekly because of the solid matter it collects. With
no gravel and a bare bottom, siphoning is going to be needed unless a
well planned water circulation scheme is running...on a larger tank this
is hard to do...