Re: Platies & Endlers????

[Charles]

On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:07:05 GMT, "Granny" > wrote:

>Hi all: I've never posted but have been reading this group for about 3
>months, when I began fishkeeping. Thanks to all you wonderful folks. Have
>really learned alot and avoided many mistakes thanks to your expert advice.
>Hopefully you can help me with this problem....
>
>I am expecting to get 3 male and 3 female Endlers on Wednesday, and had
>planned to put them in my 10 gal. by themselves, them gradually move the fry
>to my 46 gal, as they grow large enough to fend for themselves. The problem
>is that last night I encountered a web page that stated "Under no
>circumstances should they be mixed with guppies or any other poecilia
>species, otherwise they will interbreed thus the true species will be lost."
>Well, guppies aren't a problem since I don't have any, but.......
>
>The problem is that I have 3 female platies in the 46 gallon (no males), and
>they are in the Poecilia family. Now I'm worried that they will mate with
>the male Endlers when I transfer them.
>

I wouldn't worry about that one, just don't put them in with any
(other) guppies.

Endlers may be just another type of guppy, opinions vary, but they
will interbreed with other guppies. since guppies and mollies have
been reported to interbreed, I wouldn't mix those as well. Platties
should be no problem.
--

- Charles
-
-does not play well with others

[NetMax]

"Charles" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:07:05 GMT, "Granny" > wrote:
<snip>
> ..since guppies and mollies have been reported to interbreed, I
wouldn't mix those as well.
<snip>

Really ?!? Allow me to be skeptical on that one. Originally they were
not even in the same genus.

Slightly off topic, but still on Guppies & sex, this was interesting
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/sex/guppy/low_bandwidth.html
Various hypothesis on Guppy coloration as a function of environment.

NetMax

>
> - Charles
> -
> -does not play well with others

[Charles]

On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:14:42 -0400, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>
>"Charles" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:07:05 GMT, "Granny" > wrote:
><snip>
>> ..since guppies and mollies have been reported to interbreed, I
>wouldn't mix those as well.
><snip>
>
>Really ?!? Allow me to be skeptical on that one. Originally they were
>not even in the same genus.
>
>Slightly off topic, but still on Guppies & sex, this was interesting
>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/sex/guppy/low_bandwidth.html
>Various hypothesis on Guppy coloration as a function of environment.
>
>NetMax
>
Like I said, "have been reported" I've never seen it, just what I've
read, and in publications with some creditability. They may be in a
different genus again soon, there is effort afoot to reorganize them
again. Not that it matters all that much to the fish, they just keep
on doing what they do.



--

- Charles
-
-does not play well with others

[Bob K.]

>Really ?!? Allow me to be skeptical on that one. Originally they were
>not even in the same genus.

Guppy & Mollie has been crossed, but the fry, unlike
platy x swordtails, are 'mules' (sterile).

The old Innes magazine "The Aquarist" reported on this
over 40 years ago. I don't recall which specie of mollie
was used, but the fish looked like holbrooki (grey w/black spots)

Don't let genus names throw you. They're just names that are
the best-guess of the day, based on lots of anatomy - ability
to cross is not a factor. In fact genus names are mostly based
on dead colorless fish preserved in formaldehyde and pickled
for many years before dissected for analysis.

Bob

[Bob K.]

>I am expecting to get 3 male and 3 female Endlers on Wednesday, and had
>planned to put them in my 10 gal. by themselves, them gradually move the fry
>to my 46 gal, as they grow large enough to fend for themselves. The problem
>is that last night I encountered a web page that stated "Under no
>circumstances should they be mixed with guppies or any other poecilia
>species, otherwise they will interbreed thus the true species will be lost."
>Well, guppies aren't a problem since I don't have any, but.......
>
>The problem is that I have 3 female platies in the 46 gallon (no males), and
>they are in the Poecilia family. Now I'm worried that they will mate with
>the male Endlers when I transfer them.
>
1 - Platies won't interbreed with guppies (only 99.999% certain)
(Endlers livebearer is not yet a new specie nor a guppy variant
- hey! i't only been 30 years!! give those nomenclists time!! ).

2 Endlers don't get anywhere near the size of guppies. Platies
can get pretty big. Platies aren't agressive, and won't eat the
Endlers, but those Endlers fry are smaller than guppy fry and
Platies will eat any fry - if they're a bit hungry..

QED .. Don't put them in the same tank if you want have more Endlers.

Bob

[NetMax]

"Bob K." > wrote in message
...
> >Really ?!? Allow me to be skeptical on that one. Originally they
were
> >not even in the same genus.
>
> Guppy & Mollie has been crossed, but the fry, unlike
> platy x swordtails, are 'mules' (sterile).
>
> The old Innes magazine "The Aquarist" reported on this
> over 40 years ago. I don't recall which specie of mollie
> was used, but the fish looked like holbrooki (grey w/black spots)
>
> Don't let genus names throw you. They're just names that are
> the best-guess of the day, based on lots of anatomy - ability
> to cross is not a factor. In fact genus names are mostly based
> on dead colorless fish preserved in formaldehyde and pickled
> for many years before dissected for analysis.
>
> Bob

I think I once read that the definition of a species, is a fish which in
nature, will freely cross-breed. A difference in genus however, is
another level removed from their likelihood of cross-breeding, but you
are correct. Taxonomy is our artificial construct, or as Charles so
aptly stated " Not that it matters all that much to the fish, they just
keep on doing what they do" ;~)

thanks for the info!
NetMax