Aquarium Lighting

[Hound]

Quoted from a website: (refering to a Power Compact Flo set-up)

Our DIY systems include one ballast for every two lamps, thus creating
a great way to implement dawn & dusk simulation.

My question is if that is correct? I am currently looking to
build/purchase a 36" PCF that utilizes 2-55w bulbs. I plan on having
live plants and want to simulate dawn and dusk by having one come on
just before the other and vice versa and the end off the day. Can I
control each bulb or do I need more than one ballast to do this?
Aquarist resurrected :)

[Harry Muscle]

"Hound" > wrote in message
om...
> Quoted from a website: (refering to a Power Compact Flo set-up)
>
> Our DIY systems include one ballast for every two lamps, thus creating
> a great way to implement dawn & dusk simulation.
>
> My question is if that is correct? I am currently looking to
> build/purchase a 36" PCF that utilizes 2-55w bulbs. I plan on having
> live plants and want to simulate dawn and dusk by having one come on
> just before the other and vice versa and the end off the day. Can I
> control each bulb or do I need more than one ballast to do this?
> Aquarist resurrected :)

From a technical point of view, it is possible to control each bulb
separately, if you have the correct ballast, however, it is way way cheaper
to just get two ballasts to do the job.

Harry

[The Outcaste]

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:21:41 -0400, "Harry Muscle" >
bubbled forth the following:

>"Hound" > wrote in message
om...
>> Quoted from a website: (refering to a Power Compact Flo set-up)
>>
>> Our DIY systems include one ballast for every two lamps, thus creating
>> a great way to implement dawn & dusk simulation.
>>
>> My question is if that is correct? I am currently looking to
>> build/purchase a 36" PCF that utilizes 2-55w bulbs. I plan on having
>> live plants and want to simulate dawn and dusk by having one come on
>> just before the other and vice versa and the end off the day. Can I
>> control each bulb or do I need more than one ballast to do this?
>> Aquarist resurrected :)
>
>From a technical point of view, it is possible to control each bulb
>separately, if you have the correct ballast, however, it is way way cheaper
>to just get two ballasts to do the job.
>
>Harry
>
I haven't checked prices, but perhaps 1 dimming ballast would be
cheaper than 2 regular ballasts. I've seen 2 types, ones that work off
of standard 120 V dimming controls, and ones that use a 0-10V control
signal. Of course automating this would add some more expense.

Does anyone have any experience with this, and/or sources for
controllers?

Jerry

[Harry Muscle]

"The Outcaste" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:21:41 -0400, "Harry Muscle" >
> bubbled forth the following:
>
> >"Hound" > wrote in message
> om...
> >> Quoted from a website: (refering to a Power Compact Flo set-up)
> >>
> >> Our DIY systems include one ballast for every two lamps, thus creating
> >> a great way to implement dawn & dusk simulation.
> >>
> >> My question is if that is correct? I am currently looking to
> >> build/purchase a 36" PCF that utilizes 2-55w bulbs. I plan on having
> >> live plants and want to simulate dawn and dusk by having one come on
> >> just before the other and vice versa and the end off the day. Can I
> >> control each bulb or do I need more than one ballast to do this?
> >> Aquarist resurrected :)
> >
> >From a technical point of view, it is possible to control each bulb
> >separately, if you have the correct ballast, however, it is way way
cheaper
> >to just get two ballasts to do the job.
> >
> >Harry
> >
> I haven't checked prices, but perhaps 1 dimming ballast would be
> cheaper than 2 regular ballasts. I've seen 2 types, ones that work off
> of standard 120 V dimming controls, and ones that use a 0-10V control
> signal. Of course automating this would add some more expense.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with this, and/or sources for
> controllers?
>
> Jerry

I've looked into this quite a bit about a year ago, and came to the
conclusion that it's easier and cheaper to just go with two normal ballasts.
The biggest problem with the dimming ballast wasn't the cost of the
ballasts, but the cost of automating it, since there isn't really a simply
solution for it.

The route that I took is two ballasts, connected to one bulb each, plus a 3
foot rope light. So in the morning, the light rope comes on first, which is
a nice low light wake up for the fish, then a couple minutes later the first
bulb, and then later the second.

Harry

[Hound]

The Outcaste > wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:21:41 -0400, "Harry Muscle" >
> bubbled forth the following:
>
> >"Hound" > wrote in message
> om...
> >> Quoted from a website: (refering to a Power Compact Flo set-up)
> >>
> >> Our DIY systems include one ballast for every two lamps, thus creating
> >> a great way to implement dawn & dusk simulation.
> >>
> >> My question is if that is correct? I am currently looking to
> >> build/purchase a 36" PCF that utilizes 2-55w bulbs. I plan on having
> >> live plants and want to simulate dawn and dusk by having one come on
> >> just before the other and vice versa and the end off the day. Can I
> >> control each bulb or do I need more than one ballast to do this?
> >> Aquarist resurrected :)
> >
> >From a technical point of view, it is possible to control each bulb
> >separately, if you have the correct ballast, however, it is way way cheaper
> >to just get two ballasts to do the job.
> >
> >Harry
> >
> I haven't checked prices, but perhaps 1 dimming ballast would be
> cheaper than 2 regular ballasts. I've seen 2 types, ones that work off
> of standard 120 V dimming controls, and ones that use a 0-10V control
> signal. Of course automating this would add some more expense.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with this, and/or sources for
> controllers?
>
> Jerry


Thanks guys... a DIY setup is what I'll be doing now for sure. Was
concerned about dusk and dawn capabilities but from what i can tell
its more or less for my pleasure.. the plants don't care. Gonna do a
single 96w PC and maybe and additional NO if needed

[Harry Muscle]

"Hound" > wrote in message
om...
> The Outcaste > wrote in message
>...
> > On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:21:41 -0400, "Harry Muscle" >
> > bubbled forth the following:
> >
> > >"Hound" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > >> Quoted from a website: (refering to a Power Compact Flo set-up)
> > >>
> > >> Our DIY systems include one ballast for every two lamps, thus
creating
> > >> a great way to implement dawn & dusk simulation.
> > >>
> > >> My question is if that is correct? I am currently looking to
> > >> build/purchase a 36" PCF that utilizes 2-55w bulbs. I plan on having
> > >> live plants and want to simulate dawn and dusk by having one come on
> > >> just before the other and vice versa and the end off the day. Can I
> > >> control each bulb or do I need more than one ballast to do this?
> > >> Aquarist resurrected :)
> > >
> > >From a technical point of view, it is possible to control each bulb
> > >separately, if you have the correct ballast, however, it is way way
cheaper
> > >to just get two ballasts to do the job.
> > >
> > >Harry
> > >
> > I haven't checked prices, but perhaps 1 dimming ballast would be
> > cheaper than 2 regular ballasts. I've seen 2 types, ones that work off
> > of standard 120 V dimming controls, and ones that use a 0-10V control
> > signal. Of course automating this would add some more expense.
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience with this, and/or sources for
> > controllers?
> >
> > Jerry
>
>
> Thanks guys... a DIY setup is what I'll be doing now for sure. Was
> concerned about dusk and dawn capabilities but from what i can tell
> its more or less for my pleasure.. the plants don't care. Gonna do a
> single 96w PC and maybe and additional NO if needed

The plants don't care, but the fish do. They have no eye lids, so a sudden
burst of light is stressful for them, so is sudden darkness.

Harry

[The Outcaste]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:55:40 -0400, "Harry Muscle"
> bubbled forth the following:

>"The Outcaste" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:21:41 -0400, "Harry Muscle" >
>> bubbled forth the following:
>>
>> >"Hound" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> >> Quoted from a website: (refering to a Power Compact Flo set-up)
>> >>
>> >> Our DIY systems include one ballast for every two lamps, thus creating
>> >> a great way to implement dawn & dusk simulation.
>> >>
>> >> My question is if that is correct? I am currently looking to
>> >> build/purchase a 36" PCF that utilizes 2-55w bulbs. I plan on having
>> >> live plants and want to simulate dawn and dusk by having one come on
>> >> just before the other and vice versa and the end off the day. Can I
>> >> control each bulb or do I need more than one ballast to do this?
>> >> Aquarist resurrected :)
>> >
>> >From a technical point of view, it is possible to control each bulb
>> >separately, if you have the correct ballast, however, it is way way
>cheaper
>> >to just get two ballasts to do the job.
>> >
>> >Harry
>> >
>> I haven't checked prices, but perhaps 1 dimming ballast would be
>> cheaper than 2 regular ballasts. I've seen 2 types, ones that work off
>> of standard 120 V dimming controls, and ones that use a 0-10V control
>> signal. Of course automating this would add some more expense.
>>
>> Does anyone have any experience with this, and/or sources for
>> controllers?
>>
>> Jerry
>
>I've looked into this quite a bit about a year ago, and came to the
>conclusion that it's easier and cheaper to just go with two normal ballasts.
>The biggest problem with the dimming ballast wasn't the cost of the
>ballasts, but the cost of automating it, since there isn't really a simply
>solution for it.
>
>The route that I took is two ballasts, connected to one bulb each, plus a 3
>foot rope light. So in the morning, the light rope comes on first, which is
>a nice low light wake up for the fish, then a couple minutes later the first
>bulb, and then later the second.
>
>Harry
>
Did some looking today and have to agree with you. The controllers I
found were for commercial use. Some of the home automation systems
would work, as they do have dimming modules, but you'd have to invest
in the controller, and I'm not sure how programmable they are.

It's be pretty simple (at least for an electronics hobbyist) to build
a controller to plug into the timer you are already using; a 12 VDC
supply, a 16 bit up/down counter, and a Digital-Analog Converter
(DAC). This would allow either a 4.5, 9.1, or 18.2 minute ramp up/down
time. The change in intensity would depend on the resolution of the
DAC. 2 bits would give 4 levels, 8 bit 256 levels. Hardest part would
be the sunset dimming. Have to add a relay and 555 timer to keep power
on for 10-20 minutes after the main timer turned off while the
counters count down.

Another option is to wire the DAC to the parallel port on a PC. I'm
not enough of a Windows programmer to write a program to control it,
but it would be very easy.

Hmm, I sense another project to add to my list...

Jerry

[Hound]

>
> The plants don't care, but the fish do. They have no eye lids, so a sudden
> burst of light is stressful for them, so is sudden darkness.
>
> Harry

Ahh... alright. I'll do the dual setup then no doubt.

[Matt Davis]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 05:07:09 +0000, The Outcaste wrote:

<snip discussion on sunrise/sunset using dimmers & multiple ballasts>

> Did some looking today and have to agree with you. The controllers I
> found were for commercial use. Some of the home automation systems
> would work, as they do have dimming modules, but you'd have to invest
> in the controller, and I'm not sure how programmable they are.
>
> It's be pretty simple (at least for an electronics hobbyist) to build
> a controller to plug into the timer you are already using; a 12 VDC
> supply, a 16 bit up/down counter, and a Digital-Analog Converter
> (DAC). This would allow either a 4.5, 9.1, or 18.2 minute ramp up/down
> time. The change in intensity would depend on the resolution of the
> DAC. 2 bits would give 4 levels, 8 bit 256 levels. Hardest part would
> be the sunset dimming. Have to add a relay and 555 timer to keep power
> on for 10-20 minutes after the main timer turned off while the
> counters count down.
>
> Another option is to wire the DAC to the parallel port on a PC. I'm
> not enough of a Windows programmer to write a program to control it,
> but it would be very easy.
>
> Hmm, I sense another project to add to my list...
>
> Jerry

I just started doing research for this a bit myself today. I stumbled
across this thread by pure chance. (:::stands up::: Hi everybody. My name
is Matt and I'm an aquarium automation addict.)

I'm finding it hard to get reasonable specs and wiring diagrams from
manufacturers' web sites. They (probably sensibly) assume that you're
going to attach the thing to one of their enormously expensive, centrally
controlled, building-wide control systems. Most of them seem to
consist of, "Just plug our neat digital control computer in here, and
you're done!" What manufacturers were you looking at for this?

As for the timer, I was thinking about a PIC microcontroller rather
than a counter for a more flexible sunrise/sunset cycle. Something that
would start slow and speed up as the "sun" hits the "horizon." With a
proper clock set up, you could theoretically avoid the need for an outside
timer as well. For real flexibility, you could even add a serial port to
change the settings...

[The Outcaste]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:47:06 -0700, Matt Davis >
bubbled forth the following:

>I just started doing research for this a bit myself today. I stumbled
>across this thread by pure chance. (:::stands up::: Hi everybody. My name
>is Matt and I'm an aquarium automation addict.)
>
Hi Matt, welcome :)
>
>I'm finding it hard to get reasonable specs and wiring diagrams from
>manufacturers' web sites. They (probably sensibly) assume that you're
>going to attach the thing to one of their enormously expensive, centrally
>controlled, building-wide control systems. Most of them seem to
>consist of, "Just plug our neat digital control computer in here, and
>you're done!" What manufacturers were you looking at for this?
Check here:
http://www.advancetransformer.com/technical/FAQs/Advance_Dimming_Wiring_Diagrams.pdf

0-10V DC, 0.5 mA (unknown if this is sink or source), the 0 V would be
the lower limit of the dimming range (1%-5% depending on tube type),
not off.

and here:
http://www.universalballast.com/literature/brochures/dimming_brochure.pdf

This doc has basic diagrams towards the bottom. Mainly use this to get
the part number of the ballast you are interested in, then get the
data sheet from here:
http://www.universalballast.com/productLines/ballast/fl_dimm.html

The only current spec on the control leads I could find is they will
source 200 micro A, but nothing on what they would/could/need to sink,
if anything.
>
>As for the timer, I was thinking about a PIC microcontroller rather
>than a counter for a more flexible sunrise/sunset cycle. Something that
>would start slow and speed up as the "sun" hits the "horizon." With a
>proper clock set up, you could theoretically avoid the need for an outside
>timer as well. For real flexibility, you could even add a serial port to
>change the settings...

I'd thought about a micro controller, but haven't looked into the cost
of one, especially the cost of the hardware to program one.

I'm also considering using one of my old 486 PC's to do the job. As
they can be picked up for $5-$10, this might be a low cost option.
It's also work as the power supply for the DAC circuit.

I have one that has 3 printer ports, so I could set it up as a print
server as well as to control two sets of aquarium lights, each with
their own program; wouldn't even need a keyboard, mouse, or monitor,
just a network card and then access it via VNC or PC anywhere.

Load it with DOS and write a QBasic program, or load Win95/98 and use
Visual Basic. Just have to spend a day or two to learn enough Visual
Basic to write the program to control the printer ports. Use 1 bit for
on/off, leaving 7 bits to control 128 different light levels. Could
even use the 2nd printer port to control water valves, and simulate
mid-day T-storms, even annual variations.

One other advantage to the dimming ballast is getting longer tube
life. Rather than changing the bulbs every 6 months as is sometimes
recommended, simply add in one more tube than you need, say 5 instead
of 4, and set your max intensity at 80%. As the tubes age, you
gradually increase the intensity to make up for the drop in intensity
as they age. This way you can use them for their full life span of 1-3
years; though with the newer T8 and T5 tubes (at least for CW, WW,
full Daylight tubes. Not sure if this applies to the specialty bulbs
for plants though), it seems they hold their intensity throughout
their life span, after an initial drop in the 1st 100 hours, so this
may not be very useful.

HTH

Jerry

[Matt Davis]

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:47:31 +0000, The Outcaste wrote:

<snip>

Thanks for the links. I've been looking at the wrong manufacturers. Now
it's just a matter of deciding on a model and finding somebody who might
sell me one with minimal fuss. That last part is always trouble when it
comes to uncommon lighting hardware. It's like buying a used car...

> I'd thought about a micro controller, but haven't looked into the cost
> of one, especially the cost of the hardware to program one.

The tiny PIC microcontrollers start at less than $2 a pop. More
substantial models can run more like $8, but those would be overkill. My
guess is that something in the 16xxxxx series would have enough pins to
drive a DAC, take one or more inputs (maybe a potentiometer for
controlling the speed of sunrise/sunset, for example), and have plenty of
spare cycle time to do whatever else you might like for about $4. You can
find information on the whole line at http://www.microchip.com

As for programming hardware, I use a Warp-13 from Newfound Electronics as
it plugs nicely into the MPLab IDE provided by MicroChip. You can also
use it to program a number of different ROM chips. About $100 (you can
get cheaper programmers, but this is an excellent all-around product).
Once you get used to the microcontroller thing, you spend a lot less time
thinking about digital logic. The first thought that pops into your head
is, "I can do that with a $3 microcontroller and a few lines of C code."

> I'm also considering using one of my old 486 PC's to do the job. As
> they can be picked up for $5-$10, this might be a low cost option.
> It's also work as the power supply for the DAC circuit.

I'm still trying to figure out the power supply part. A lot of
microcontrollers can deal with a wide range of supply voltages these days,
but I don't want to have to run more wires than I have to. I seem to
remember some ballasts coming with low voltage DC supply lines for
sensors. It's one possibility, anyway.

> I have one that has 3 printer ports, so I could set it up as a print
> server as well as to control two sets of aquarium lights, each with
> their own program; wouldn't even need a keyboard, mouse, or monitor,
> just a network card and then access it via VNC or PC anywhere.
>
> Load it with DOS and write a QBasic program, or load Win95/98 and use
> Visual Basic. Just have to spend a day or two to learn enough Visual
> Basic to write the program to control the printer ports. Use 1 bit for
> on/off, leaving 7 bits to control 128 different light levels. Could
> even use the 2nd printer port to control water valves, and simulate
> mid-day T-storms, even annual variations.

This sounds like a job for Linux! Or a microcontroller with a cheap
wireless transciever (probably about $20 for the whole package). And
blue LEDs for moonlight... But now I'm getting ahead of myself. Getting
light without smoke, fire, or that horrible **POP** is step one.

> One other advantage to the dimming ballast is getting longer tube
> life. Rather than changing the bulbs every 6 months as is sometimes
> recommended, simply add in one more tube than you need, say 5 instead
> of 4, and set your max intensity at 80%. As the tubes age, you
> gradually increase the intensity to make up for the drop in intensity
> as they age. This way you can use them for their full life span of 1-3
> years; though with the newer T8 and T5 tubes (at least for CW, WW,
> full Daylight tubes. Not sure if this applies to the specialty bulbs
> for plants though), it seems they hold their intensity throughout
> their life span, after an initial drop in the 1st 100 hours, so this
> may not be very useful.

I hadn't thought of it from that angle. It's an interesting side benefit.
I think that this would be well worth playing with. After getting a
workable design, these would be pretty easy to make. If I get to that
point, I'll let everybody know.

Thanks for your help.

-Matt

[Ian Smith]

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004, Matt Davis > wrote:

> As for programming hardware, I use a Warp-13 from Newfound Electronics as
> it plugs nicely into the MPLab IDE provided by MicroChip.

Drifting off-topic somewhat, but I'll second teh vote for the Warp-13
- it's what I use, and it works nicely.

On topic, it's a PIC that monitors and switches my tank heating (I
have three heaters and a particular sequence I want them to swicth in
, for various reasons). Although they have a useful current drive
it's obviously not uop to heating purposes, so the PIC drives a
transistor drives a mains relay.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

[david]

"Ian Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004, Matt Davis > wrote:
>
> > As for programming hardware, I use a Warp-13 from Newfound Electronics
as
> > it plugs nicely into the MPLab IDE provided by MicroChip.
>
> Drifting off-topic somewhat, but I'll second teh vote for the Warp-13
> - it's what I use, and it works nicely.
>
> On topic, it's a PIC that monitors and switches my tank heating (I
> have three heaters and a particular sequence I want them to swicth in
> , for various reasons). Although they have a useful current drive
> it's obviously not uop to heating purposes, so the PIC drives a
> transistor drives a mains relay.
>
> regards, Ian SMith
> --
is there a web page showing your pic stuff ??

David

[The Outcaste]

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:51:14 +0000 (UTC), "david" >
bubbled forth the following:

>
>"Ian Smith" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004, Matt Davis > wrote:
>>
>> > As for programming hardware, I use a Warp-13 from Newfound Electronics
>as
>> > it plugs nicely into the MPLab IDE provided by MicroChip.
>>
>> Drifting off-topic somewhat, but I'll second teh vote for the Warp-13
>> - it's what I use, and it works nicely.
>>
>> On topic, it's a PIC that monitors and switches my tank heating (I
>> have three heaters and a particular sequence I want them to swicth in
>> , for various reasons). Although they have a useful current drive
>> it's obviously not uop to heating purposes, so the PIC drives a
>> transistor drives a mains relay.
>>
>> regards, Ian SMith
>> --
>is there a web page showing your pic stuff ??
>
>David
>
Warp-13 at http://www.newfoundelectronics.com/
The MCU's at http://www.microchip.com

HTH

Jerry

[david]

>"Ian Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004, Matt Davis > wrote:
> >>
> >> > As for programming hardware, I use a Warp-13 from Newfound
Electronics
> >as
> >> > it plugs nicely into the MPLab IDE provided by MicroChip.
> >>
> >> Drifting off-topic somewhat, but I'll second teh vote for the Warp-13
> >> - it's what I use, and it works nicely.
> >>
> >> On topic, it's a PIC that monitors and switches my tank heating (I
> >> have three heaters and a particular sequence I want them to swicth in
> >> , for various reasons). Although they have a useful current drive
> >> it's obviously not uop to heating purposes, so the PIC drives a
> >> transistor drives a mains relay.
> >>
> >> regards, Ian SMith
> >> --
> >is there a web page showing your pic stuff ??
> >
> >David
> >
> Warp-13 at http://www.newfoundelectronics.com/
> The MCU's at http://www.microchip.com
>
> Jerry
Thanks Jerry I use Pics at work and can program them in asm. but I was
wondering if Ian had anything on the web about his aquarium system.

David

[Ian Smith]

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:51:14 +0000 (UTC), david > wrote:
>
> "Ian Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > On topic, it's a PIC that monitors and switches my tank heating (I
> > have three heaters and a particular sequence I want them to swicth in
> > , for various reasons). Although they have a useful current drive
> > it's obviously not uop to heating purposes, so the PIC drives a
> > transistor drives a mains relay.
>
> is there a web page showing your pic stuff ??

Well, I'm nearing teh end of a four-channel on-board mixer for a
multi-engine radio control hovercraft that mixes speed, lift, steering
(via on-board gyro) and and idle setting from teh receiver, and
controls two three motors (lift and two thrust) and three servos (one
rudder and two proportional thrust reversers), but I guess it was teh
fish PIC stuff you wanted to hear about...

No, there's nothing about it on my web pages, though I keep vaguely
meaning to put it on.

The PIC heater controller is a long-running work-in-progress. Teh
head of the asm file is fairly informative:

; Ian's astounding digital thermometer system
;
; uses 16F877 pic
;
; The system has seven temperature sensors on AN0 - AN6,
; It averages AN0 and AN1 to give a virtual sensor on AN7
; All inputs are scaled so that 0 degC = 0V, 102.4 degC = Vdd
; Thus, can direct read ANx value as tenths of deg C
;
; AN7 is actually a control knob, which is read only in config
; mode, during which time temperature readings are suspended
;
; Control switches are on port B upper nybble
; RB7 on-board config switch (not currently used)
; RB6 'mode' switch
; RB5 +, yes, increment
; RB4 -, no, decrement
;
; Four outputs are on portb lower nybble, these are shuffled
; for ease of board layout
; RB3 output 4
; RB2 output 1
; RB1 output 2
; RB0 output 3
;
; Visual output is on port D, including an LCD in 4 bit mode
; RD7 heartbeat LED, on when processing
; RD6 LCD_E LCD Enable control line
; RD5 LCD_RW LCD Read/Write control line
; RD4 LCD_RS LCD Register-Select control line
; data bits are connected on low nybble:
; RD3 DB7 on LCD
; RD2 DB6
; RD1 DB5
; RD0 DB4

I've forgotten what teh sensors are - I'd need to dig my notes out,
but they look like standard small plastic transistors. They give an
output voltage that's linear with temperature over the range 0-120 deg
C, and I feed that through an op-amp to the analogue inputs of the PIC
to make interpretation easy (as described above). I solder them onto
the wires and encase teh ends (sensor and a little along teh
insulation of teh wire) in epoxy.

The sensors are two in teh tank, one in the sump, one in teh
room air, one internal in teh unit (near the voltage regulator
heat-sink). The room air and unit internal are just becaue I could -
the unit doesn't do anything with the values.

There are four mains relays, driven via a transistor driven by teh PIC
output. They switch mains power to sockets on teh back of teh unit
case.

The circuit is built on veroboard, so is physically larger than it
needs to be, but everything (including transformer and power supply)
fits in a nice case 205x180x70mm with aluminium front panel.

The front panel has a 16 character x 2 line LCD, three press-buttons
(mode, up-or-yes, down-or-no) and a knob to twiddle. There is an LED
for unit on, an LED heartbeat (so you can see it's working properly),
and LEDs fro each of teh switched outputs.

In normal operation the LCD shows the name of a sensor, teh current
temperature and on teh second line the max and min since last reset.
Pressing + or - steps through teh sensors.

Pressing mode for a couple of seconds goes to config mode where you
can clear max and min, and set the criteria for switching on outputs.
Also, there's a smoothing algorithm written in for teh temperature
sensors so a single bad reading doesn't switch teh heaters wrongly,
and in config mode you can switch that on or off. (I've never
detected a bad reading, but it seemed like a good idea so I wrote it
in).

Max, min and settings are all written to eeprom, so are not lost if
the power goes.

The criteria is the bit that's work-in-progress. At the moment it
just switches the three outputs on teh basis of a simple coded-in
criterion (two are on when teh average of the two tank sensors is
below 24 deg C, teh third when it's below 27 deg C). The code will
eventually let you set a criterion which works by switching on each
output when sensor 1 is above a set value and below another set value,
and sensor 2 is above one and below another and sensor 3 is above one
and below another and ... sensor 8. This lets you switch on
more-or-less anything, because if you don't want a sensor to
contribute you set it to 0 and 99.9 (on when above 0 and below 99.9 =
always on), if you want an output on below 24 you set on when above
0.0 and below 24.0, if you want on when above 27 (say, to swich on
cooling) you set on on when above 27.0 and below 99.9.

This will let me set things like heaters on when tank is below 24 and
sump is below 28 - teh heaters are in teh sump, and I wouldn't want to
boil teh sump if teh circulation pumps were off.

The 16F877 is probably overkill, but I did want more than four 10 bit
adc, plus 8 bits to control LCD, plus at least 4 outputs and 4 inputs,
plus a moderate amount of eeprom data, and decided that I'd get the
one with the maximum amount of program space that met those criteria -
hence 16F877. There's also a USART in there, and the pins for that
are currently unused, so I could have teh output on a serial port to a
PC, when I get round to it.

I'm not really sure why I haven't finished it off - it was more an
exercise to see if I could than to fulfill a need. When I started I
knew next to nothing about electronics (I did some in physics at
school over 15 years ago) and had never touched a microcontroller, but
I bought an electronics text-book by Horowitz & Hill and downloaded
masses of gumpf from Microchip's website and started reading. My
first PIC program and circuit switched a LED on when you pressed a
button, then switched it off four seconds after you released teh
switch. My second program and circuit was the temperature controller
- I favour the in-at-the-deep-end approach to learning!

Is there anything specific you wanted to know?

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

[david]

top posted
I am reading this now just what I wanted.
always interested in diy pic stuff I measure temp with a thermister but it
is a bit adhock wonder if you can identify your sensors for me sounds much
more reliable

many thanks David

"Ian Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:51:14 +0000 (UTC), david > wrote:
> >
> > "Ian Smith" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > On topic, it's a PIC that monitors and switches my tank heating (I
> > > have three heaters and a particular sequence I want them to swicth in
> > > , for various reasons). Although they have a useful current drive
> > > it's obviously not uop to heating purposes, so the PIC drives a
> > > transistor drives a mains relay.
> >
> > is there a web page showing your pic stuff ??
>
> Well, I'm nearing teh end of a four-channel on-board mixer for a
> multi-engine radio control hovercraft that mixes speed, lift, steering
> (via on-board gyro) and and idle setting from teh receiver, and
> controls two three motors (lift and two thrust) and three servos (one
> rudder and two proportional thrust reversers), but I guess it was teh
> fish PIC stuff you wanted to hear about...
>
> No, there's nothing about it on my web pages, though I keep vaguely
> meaning to put it on.
>
> The PIC heater controller is a long-running work-in-progress. Teh
> head of the asm file is fairly informative:
>
> ; Ian's astounding digital thermometer system
> ;
> ; uses 16F877 pic
> ;
> ; The system has seven temperature sensors on AN0 - AN6,
> ; It averages AN0 and AN1 to give a virtual sensor on AN7
> ; All inputs are scaled so that 0 degC = 0V, 102.4 degC = Vdd
> ; Thus, can direct read ANx value as tenths of deg C
> ;
> ; AN7 is actually a control knob, which is read only in config
> ; mode, during which time temperature readings are suspended
> ;
> ; Control switches are on port B upper nybble
> ; RB7 on-board config switch (not currently used)
> ; RB6 'mode' switch
> ; RB5 +, yes, increment
> ; RB4 -, no, decrement
> ;
> ; Four outputs are on portb lower nybble, these are shuffled
> ; for ease of board layout
> ; RB3 output 4
> ; RB2 output 1
> ; RB1 output 2
> ; RB0 output 3
> ;
> ; Visual output is on port D, including an LCD in 4 bit mode
> ; RD7 heartbeat LED, on when processing
> ; RD6 LCD_E LCD Enable control line
> ; RD5 LCD_RW LCD Read/Write control line
> ; RD4 LCD_RS LCD Register-Select control line
> ; data bits are connected on low nybble:
> ; RD3 DB7 on LCD
> ; RD2 DB6
> ; RD1 DB5
> ; RD0 DB4
>
> I've forgotten what teh sensors are - I'd need to dig my notes out,
> but they look like standard small plastic transistors. They give an
> output voltage that's linear with temperature over the range 0-120 deg
> C, and I feed that through an op-amp to the analogue inputs of the PIC
> to make interpretation easy (as described above). I solder them onto
> the wires and encase teh ends (sensor and a little along teh
> insulation of teh wire) in epoxy.
>
> The sensors are two in teh tank, one in the sump, one in teh
> room air, one internal in teh unit (near the voltage regulator
> heat-sink). The room air and unit internal are just becaue I could -
> the unit doesn't do anything with the values.
>
> There are four mains relays, driven via a transistor driven by teh PIC
> output. They switch mains power to sockets on teh back of teh unit
> case.
>
> The circuit is built on veroboard, so is physically larger than it
> needs to be, but everything (including transformer and power supply)
> fits in a nice case 205x180x70mm with aluminium front panel.
>
> The front panel has a 16 character x 2 line LCD, three press-buttons
> (mode, up-or-yes, down-or-no) and a knob to twiddle. There is an LED
> for unit on, an LED heartbeat (so you can see it's working properly),
> and LEDs fro each of teh switched outputs.
>
> In normal operation the LCD shows the name of a sensor, teh current
> temperature and on teh second line the max and min since last reset.
> Pressing + or - steps through teh sensors.
>
> Pressing mode for a couple of seconds goes to config mode where you
> can clear max and min, and set the criteria for switching on outputs.
> Also, there's a smoothing algorithm written in for teh temperature
> sensors so a single bad reading doesn't switch teh heaters wrongly,
> and in config mode you can switch that on or off. (I've never
> detected a bad reading, but it seemed like a good idea so I wrote it
> in).
>
> Max, min and settings are all written to eeprom, so are not lost if
> the power goes.
>
> The criteria is the bit that's work-in-progress. At the moment it
> just switches the three outputs on teh basis of a simple coded-in
> criterion (two are on when teh average of the two tank sensors is
> below 24 deg C, teh third when it's below 27 deg C). The code will
> eventually let you set a criterion which works by switching on each
> output when sensor 1 is above a set value and below another set value,
> and sensor 2 is above one and below another and sensor 3 is above one
> and below another and ... sensor 8. This lets you switch on
> more-or-less anything, because if you don't want a sensor to
> contribute you set it to 0 and 99.9 (on when above 0 and below 99.9 =
> always on), if you want an output on below 24 you set on when above
> 0.0 and below 24.0, if you want on when above 27 (say, to swich on
> cooling) you set on on when above 27.0 and below 99.9.
>
> This will let me set things like heaters on when tank is below 24 and
> sump is below 28 - teh heaters are in teh sump, and I wouldn't want to
> boil teh sump if teh circulation pumps were off.
>
> The 16F877 is probably overkill, but I did want more than four 10 bit
> adc, plus 8 bits to control LCD, plus at least 4 outputs and 4 inputs,
> plus a moderate amount of eeprom data, and decided that I'd get the
> one with the maximum amount of program space that met those criteria -
> hence 16F877. There's also a USART in there, and the pins for that
> are currently unused, so I could have teh output on a serial port to a
> PC, when I get round to it.
>
> I'm not really sure why I haven't finished it off - it was more an
> exercise to see if I could than to fulfill a need. When I started I
> knew next to nothing about electronics (I did some in physics at
> school over 15 years ago) and had never touched a microcontroller, but
> I bought an electronics text-book by Horowitz & Hill and downloaded
> masses of gumpf from Microchip's website and started reading. My
> first PIC program and circuit switched a LED on when you pressed a
> button, then switched it off four seconds after you released teh
> switch. My second program and circuit was the temperature controller
> - I favour the in-at-the-deep-end approach to learning!
>
> Is there anything specific you wanted to know?
>
> regards, Ian SMith
> --
> |\ /| no .sig
> |o o|
> |/ \|

[Ian Smith]

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 20:05:03 +0000 (UTC), david > wrote:

> I am reading this now just what I wanted.
> always interested in diy pic stuff I measure temp with a thermister but it
> is a bit adhock wonder if you can identify your sensors for me sounds much
> more reliable

I'm fairly certain they are LM35DZ, and I got them from Farnell.
It's not 100% because that's based on teh fact that I've done it by
checking in my bits box and found a packet claiming to contain 5
"LM35DZ ic-precision temp sensor", and actually containing only one,
and I think I bought a couple of spares for design development.

It might be farnell part number 409-091, and if so I expect a trip to
teh web site will yield a data sheet fairly easily.

I thought about thermistors, but this sensor with its linear output
and an appropriate couple of resistors on an op-amp to scale teh
voltage to a convenient range seemed easier.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

[david]

thanks Ian got that and the pdf I will get some in to play with
"Ian Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 20:05:03 +0000 (UTC), david > wrote:
>
> > I am reading this now just what I wanted.
> > always interested in diy pic stuff I measure temp with a thermister
but it
> > is a bit adhock wonder if you can identify your sensors for me sounds
much
> > more reliable
>
> I'm fairly certain they are LM35DZ, and I got them from Farnell.
> It's not 100% because that's based on teh fact that I've done it by
> checking in my bits box and found a packet claiming to contain 5
> "LM35DZ ic-precision temp sensor", and actually containing only one,
> and I think I bought a couple of spares for design development.
>
> It might be farnell part number 409-091, and if so I expect a trip to
> teh web site will yield a data sheet fairly easily.
>
> I thought about thermistors, but this sensor with its linear output
> and an appropriate couple of resistors on an op-amp to scale teh
> voltage to a convenient range seemed easier.
>
> regards, Ian SMith
> --
> |\ /| no .sig
> |o o|
> |/ \|

[adensymond]

The aquatic hobby continues to gain in popularity, manufacturers are developing more and more professional equipment, each year. You need for your installation program will guide the depth and size of your tank, the light you need any special aquatic animals, if you intend to live plants in your design.

[emersonchriss]

For fish only aquarium, with 3 watts of lighting per gallon of water in the tank. This amount will be the perfect light control algae - any strong, you may notice green algae begins to form. Remember to change the lights every 8 months to maintain a consistent light intensity.

[Jerommebarnes]

One is to make your tank from the water evaporation. The second is to hold your fish tank metal halide lamp ballasts and feeding into your tank and three dust and other things. With a good marine fish tank, you have a tank hood, fish tank with your filters, heaters and aquarium fish lamp wires pre-cut hole equipment. When things get more and more like an aquarium lighting aquarium supplies, you have to get quality equipment.

[Hayes]

Quoted from a website: (refering to a Power Compact Flo set-up)

Our DIY systems include one ballast for every two lamps, thus creating
a great way to implement dawn & dusk simulation.

My question is if that is correct? I am currently looking to
build/purchase a 36" PCF that utilizes 2-55w bulbs. I plan on having
live plants and want to simulate dawn and dusk by having one come on
just before the other and vice versa and the end off the day. Can I
control each bulb or do I need more than one ballast to do this?
Aquarist resurrected :)

How to dim my aquarium lighting my neons are afraid and hide under the filter or under the driftwood plz help?

[Jacklee]

Quoted from a website: (refering to a Power Compact Flo set-up)

Our DIY systems include one ballast for every two lamps, thus creating
a great way to implement dawn & dusk simulation.

My question is if that is correct? I am currently looking to
build/purchase a 36" PCF that utilizes 2-55w bulbs. I plan on having
live plants and want to simulate dawn and dusk by having one come on
just before the other and vice versa led bulbs (http://www.niceledlights.com) and the end off the day. Can I
control each bulb or do I need more than one ballast to do this?
Aquarist resurrected :)

I think we need to use led lights in modern world, They not get too hot and good for our aquariums