Punishment, solitary style.

[D&M]

I was at my local "experienced" lfs, inquiring about turning in one of my
trouble makers, a Red Parrot cichlid.

I was given a different alternative that I'd never heard of done to a fish
before today, just wondering if anyone else has done it.

When he is bad, catch him and lock him up is a breeder net for a while,
cause he really won't like it. After he's released again, if he continues,
lock him up again. She said she's locked them up for up to 4 days, only to
let it back out and a 1/2 hour later lock up again. She said it works, fish
are very smart, and will catch on what's bad and what the consiquences of
their actions are.

Well, as this is the first time I ever heard this, I had to try it, so
tonight it the first night, got the trap set up, waiting for him to act up
(which shouldn't take long).

Cheers

[Mephistopheles]

"D&M" > wrote in
:

> I was at my local "experienced" lfs, inquiring about turning in
> one of my trouble makers, a Red Parrot cichlid.
>
> I was given a different alternative that I'd never heard of done
> to a fish before today, just wondering if anyone else has done
> it.
>
> When he is bad, catch him and lock him up is a breeder net for a
> while, cause he really won't like it. After he's released again,
> if he continues, lock him up again. She said she's locked them
> up for up to 4 days, only to let it back out and a 1/2 hour
> later lock up again. She said it works, fish are very smart, and
> will catch on what's bad and what the consiquences of their
> actions are.
>
> Well, as this is the first time I ever heard this, I had to try
> it, so tonight it the first night, got the trap set up, waiting
> for him to act up (which shouldn't take long).
>
> Cheers
>
>
>

Sorry, but I think all that will teach him to do is not to chase
fish while you are around. As soon as you leave or are not
watching, it will be back to business as usual.

Meph

[Victor Martinez]

That's got to be the dumbest idea ever to come out of an ignorant lfs
employee...

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[D&M]

This lfs "employee" is 68 years old, been a fish keeper since she was 14.
Owns her own aquarium store from her home employing 7, with 60 freshwater
tanks. Plus the additional tanks she keeps in her home with her husband. I
tend to listen to what she has to say.


"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
.. .
> That's got to be the dumbest idea ever to come out of an ignorant lfs
> employee...
>
> --
> Victor Martinez
> Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
> Send your spam here:
> Email me here:
>

[Zydeco29]

"D&M" > wrote in message
...
> This lfs "employee" is 68 years old, been a fish keeper since she was 14.
> Owns her own aquarium store from her home employing 7, with 60 freshwater
> tanks. Plus the additional tanks she keeps in her home with her husband. I
> tend to listen to what she has to say.
>

no offense, but how about listening to common sense? do u really think that
would be stress free for the fish? and if we all agree to agree that it
would indeed be stressful, how do u think the fish would handle that?

do u really think that the fish would be kept healthy in such conditions?

come on...........

[Surgicalrn]

I agree with all of these guys... it's not a good idea to treat a fish this
way. If you can't handle his behavior with the other fish in the tank then
guess what- he's not the type of fish you need to have in your tank. Get a
fish that will do well with the fish you already have instead of stressing
out one particular fish who probably shouldn't be in the tank anyway. Your
just asking for him to develope some sort of infection from being constantly
caught and thrown in solitary. Even the best nets cause slight damage when
they are used to catch a fish who doesn't want to be caught (believe me he
will come to hate you and that net). When he eventually figures out that
every time that net hits the water it's coming after him he will start doing
everything in his power to escape that net and he might injure himself even
more. Is it really worth all of that???

[D&M]

We given it some deep thought, analized the specific fish he disagreed with,
what triggered the agression. Come to the conclusion that he's just not a
community fish. This tank has over 20 different species of fish, he's the
only one not fitting in.

I agree with the other that it will not only stress out him, but the umpteen
other species in the tank as well. Would also take a 1/2 hour each time just
to catch him.

If it was any other lfs, some petco, 16 year old kid, I wouldn't have even
given it a second thought and would have left laughing. But when someone of
that age give an idea that I never ever heard about in my fish keeping days,
nor anywhere on the net, had to give it the benefit of a doubt.

That's the reason I posted it here, to see what others thought of the idea,
if it would work or not. And your opinions are pretty much what were
thinking. WE're just lucky that because of his mutation, he can't bite...
otherwise wouldn't be a question in our minds and he would have been gone
ages ago.

So, in the "Big Fishy House 3", the others tenants of the tank have voted
him evicted.

Thanks for all your feedback guys, we really appreciated it.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

D&M, everyone will have an opinion and you will get both
for and against.

For example. I wanted to put sand in my tank, people told me
"no this will irritate your fish's gills and clog up your filter
and be difficult to keep clean, and will churn your fishs stomach"

Then comes gravel, some say "your fish will get gravel caught
inside him and will die". Yet plenty of people have sand or gravel
or both....who do you listen to.

[Victor Martinez]

D&M wrote:
> This lfs "employee" is 68 years old, been a fish keeper since she was 14.
> Owns her own aquarium store from her home employing 7, with 60 freshwater
> tanks. Plus the additional tanks she keeps in her home with her husband. I
> tend to listen to what she has to say.

So? You don't think that just because she's experienced doesn't mean she
can't be a fool? Or lack common sense?

--
Victor Martinez
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[Mark]

What evidence do you have to prove the theory invalid?

--


Mark
http://www.cichliddomain.com


"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> D&M wrote:
> > This lfs "employee" is 68 years old, been a fish keeper since she
was 14.
> > Owns her own aquarium store from her home employing 7, with 60
freshwater
> > tanks. Plus the additional tanks she keeps in her home with her
husband. I
> > tend to listen to what she has to say.
>
> So? You don't think that just because she's experienced doesn't mean
she
> can't be a fool? Or lack common sense?
>
> --
> Victor Martinez
> Send your spam here:
> Email me here:
>

[NetMax]

"D&M" > wrote in message
...
> I was at my local "experienced" lfs, inquiring about turning in one of
my
> trouble makers, a Red Parrot cichlid.
>
> I was given a different alternative that I'd never heard of done to a
fish
> before today, just wondering if anyone else has done it.
>
> When he is bad, catch him and lock him up is a breeder net for a while,
> cause he really won't like it. After he's released again, if he
continues,
> lock him up again. She said she's locked them up for up to 4 days, only
to
> let it back out and a 1/2 hour later lock up again. She said it works,
fish
> are very smart, and will catch on what's bad and what the consiquences
of
> their actions are.
>
> Well, as this is the first time I ever heard this, I had to try it, so
> tonight it the first night, got the trap set up, waiting for him to act
up
> (which shouldn't take long).
>
> Cheers

IMHO, there is some validity to behaviour modification through
punishment/separation. It isn't as easy or as successful as you might
expect, and the constant catching/moving is stressful to all the fish.
In some applications, where you have many tanks, easy catch, and common
water parameters, then this is an absolutely valid method of 'trying' to
change their ways. Just moving them into an empty tank with no
decorations is usually punishment enough (not a breeding trap). It
allows the other fish a break, and when the troublemaker is
re-introduced, he wears intruder status for a little while, so his
behaviour is slightly improved for a short while.

Depending on the fish and it's reason for aggression ymmv, and it will
usually take more than one or two 'time outs', IF it is to work at all
(when it does work). Your chances of success are minimal, but if you
have the application, you can experiment with it. The larger the tanks,
and the more mixed your community, and the smaller the difference between
your aggressor and the next in command, the better your chances of
success will be. Don't be surprised when you find it worked too well,
and your former aggressor becomes the victim which you now need to rescue
;~) Also consider the cause of his aggression, as this will constantly
act to restore his 'evil' ways.

The fact is, juveniles grow up in a state of equilibrium with each other.
This equilibrium is sometimes very fragile and it only takes one fish to
upset the balance (ask anyone who keeps mbuna). Trying to restore the
balance by modifying the behaviour of one fish will sometimes not work
because everyone else's behaviour has now changed as well. I see this
quite often when people introduce or lose a fish into/from a mature
combination of semi or aggressive fishes. Sometimes you just have to
move the aggressor out (permanently) or reset the entire tank. hth

NetMax

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Victor Martinez wrote:
to say.
>
> So? You don't think that just because she's experienced doesn't mean she
> can't be a fool? Or lack common sense?

Hey, if I'm to fly in a plane as a passenger and have an experienced pilot
fly or a newbie, I know which one I would choose.

[RedForeman ©®]

I kinda laughed when I read the responses... the opinions offered here, are
just that.. opinions.... and nobody is right, as well, nobody is entirely
wrong.... that includes you... I've done what you say, and what a surprise,
it even worked... I had a socoffoli that was terrorizing another RedZebra
and it was because they were territorial.. wow... what a concept... I put
'scuff' in a breeder net for a few days, and by then the RedZebra became
boss... for a month, scuff would ignore the boss, and eventually the boss
became bigger, and scuff never bothered anyone ever again....

I think those who try and condemn someone before seeing both sides of a
story are somewhat close minded.... Though some may not agree, that doesn't
make it wrong or bad...


"D&M" > wrote in message
...
> I was at my local "experienced" lfs, inquiring about turning in one of my
> trouble makers, a Red Parrot cichlid.
>
> I was given a different alternative that I'd never heard of done to a fish
> before today, just wondering if anyone else has done it.
>
> When he is bad, catch him and lock him up is a breeder net for a while,
> cause he really won't like it. After he's released again, if he continues,
> lock him up again. She said she's locked them up for up to 4 days, only to
> let it back out and a 1/2 hour later lock up again. She said it works,
fish
> are very smart, and will catch on what's bad and what the consiquences of
> their actions are.
>
> Well, as this is the first time I ever heard this, I had to try it, so
> tonight it the first night, got the trap set up, waiting for him to act up
> (which shouldn't take long).
>
> Cheers
>
>

[[email protected]]

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc D&M > wrote:

> So, in the "Big Fishy House 3", the others tenants of the tank have voted
> him evicted.

I don't think that really happened. Fish can't vote. They don't have
suffryage rights.


--
.................................................. ............................

"Those who shall sober up from the collective intoxication will have to
admit that the Palestinians are the Jews of our era, a small, hunted
people, defenseless, standing alone against the best weapons, helpless
the whole world is against them"
-Ha'aretz, June 13, 1982

.................................................. ............................
http://www.memeticcandiru.com

[D&M]

>
> The fact is, juveniles grow up in a state of equilibrium with each other.
> This equilibrium is sometimes very fragile and it only takes one fish to
> upset the balance (ask anyone who keeps mbuna). Trying to restore the
> balance by modifying the behaviour of one fish will sometimes not work
> because everyone else's behaviour has now changed as well. I see this
> quite often when people introduce or lose a fish into/from a mature
> combination of semi or aggressive fishes. Sometimes you just have to
> move the aggressor out (permanently) or reset the entire tank. hth
>
> NetMax
>


Pretty much what happened. We removed an agressive adult red tail shark, the
day after is when the parrot took over the tank. More his safety I'm
concerned about, he's picking on fish he should not be, such as a full grown
pictus cat. The cat's turned on him a couple times already, was tired of
being chased.

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Punishment, solitary style.
>From: "D&M"
>Date: 10/20/2003 9:32 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>This lfs "employee" is 68 years old, been a fish keeper since she was 14.
>Owns her own aquarium store from her home employing 7, with 60 freshwater
>tanks. Plus the additional tanks she keeps in her home with her husband. I
>tend to listen to what she has to say.

As crazy as it sounds....this very thing often works with aggressive female
Bettas.
If one is overly aggressive, I isolate her. I do not, however, leave her in a
"breeder net" in that tank. I remove her totally.
I try introducing her in a few days. Sometimes just coming into an already
established pecking order males a difference and the aggressor isn't so bold
this time around.
Sometimes they start up again and I isolate them for a week. If after a week
they still act too aggressive, they're kept in isolation permantly. (that's a
bit rare though, they usually settle down)