Ph

[Lori Wilson]

At what pH does the tank stop cycling? I am having a problem getting tank
to cycle. It starts to cycle, then pH drops to 6.6 to 6.4 and ammonia
builds again. I adjust the pH to 7 to 7.4 and more cycle, but ammonia level
is still 6. Fish are doing fine except for pleco. He seems to be dieing as
I type this. This is the second pleco to die during a ph adjustment. I
have done partial water changes any where from 20% to 50% and still the
ammonia level remains at 6. I have gon through a 8 oz. bottle of cycle in 1
1/2 weeks will no avail-theough my water is clearer. Any help would be
appreciated.

Thanks,
lori

--
www.inharmonytravel.globaltravel.com

[RedForeman ©®]

if it does die, it'll be from pH shock more than ammonia... you might want
to pull the pl*co until you are "sure" you've completed cycle...

It may be that your water source has a lower pH to start with, but a cycling
tank, AFAIK, doesn't fluctuate unless there is a reason.... reason could be
detrius or uneaten food, plant decay and deadening, or rotting mulm... and
since it's a new cycling tank, you may or may not have these happening....

I'm no expert on the cycling process, all I ever do is use existing tanks to
start new tanks, using water, filters, and plants.... but no fish... using
fish to start a cycle can be harmful, as you're learning.... and my usual
cycle is over in 2 days.... it does take several days for the filter to
catch up...

My advice would be, that if you've already went thru 1.5 weeks, do a good
sized water change, condition your water only for the volume you are
replacing, not the size of the tank.... and sorry, I'm not familiar with
"Cycle" as I use StressCoat and StressZyme for new tanks... and Wardley's
Chlor-Out for Chlorine-amine

I always check the tap water for pH differences, ammonia and trItes and
trAtes.... and use baking soda to bring it up if needed... CO2 to bring it
down... OT a bit, in a 5g tank, I've blown in the tank for several minutes
and dropped the pH when needed... had to do it twice to see if I wasn't
crazy, but it worked... go figure...

Good luck, hope your pl*co makes it.... I've got a soft spot for suckers....

"Lori Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> At what pH does the tank stop cycling? I am having a problem getting tank
> to cycle. It starts to cycle, then pH drops to 6.6 to 6.4 and ammonia
> builds again. I adjust the pH to 7 to 7.4 and more cycle, but ammonia
level
> is still 6. Fish are doing fine except for pleco. He seems to be dieing
as
> I type this. This is the second pleco to die during a ph adjustment. I
> have done partial water changes any where from 20% to 50% and still the
> ammonia level remains at 6. I have gon through a 8 oz. bottle of cycle in
1
> 1/2 weeks will no avail-theough my water is clearer. Any help would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> lori
>
> --
> www.inharmonytravel.globaltravel.com
>
>

[Cris]

The tank isn't cycling because there is too much ammonia. A little
bit of ammonia is needed to feed the nitrobacter bacteria, but too
much will inhibit its growth. It's the same deal with Nitrite and the
nitrosomonas bacteria.

You have too many fish in your uncycled tank. You will have to
continue doing many (daily?) water changes to keep the ammonia levels
low until the tank cycles. Also, feed the fish very little to nothing
until the tank finishes cycling. Keep a very close eye on the ammonia
level. Your pH won't affect the cycle, but ammonia will lower the pH.
You can use baking soda to buffer the pH, but keep in mind that
ammonia is less toxic to fish when the pH is below 7. Once the
ammonia is gone and you get Nitrite you can add some aquarium salt to
the water (1tsp/gallon) to help detoxify the Nitrite. But don't just
add the salt in all at once - the fish will need to adjust to that
change as well. Sometimes the cycle goes so fast that you don't have
time to add salt before it's all done. I also wouldn't bother if the
Nitrite level isn't too high.

Good luck!
Cris


On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:09:21 GMT, "Lori Wilson" >
wrote:

>At what pH does the tank stop cycling? I am having a problem getting tank
>to cycle. It starts to cycle, then pH drops to 6.6 to 6.4 and ammonia
>builds again. I adjust the pH to 7 to 7.4 and more cycle, but ammonia level
>is still 6. Fish are doing fine except for pleco. He seems to be dieing as
>I type this. This is the second pleco to die during a ph adjustment. I
>have done partial water changes any where from 20% to 50% and still the
>ammonia level remains at 6. I have gon through a 8 oz. bottle of cycle in 1
>1/2 weeks will no avail-theough my water is clearer. Any help would be
>appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>lori

[NetMax]

"Lori Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> At what pH does the tank stop cycling? I am having a problem getting
tank
> to cycle. It starts to cycle, then pH drops to 6.6 to 6.4 and ammonia
> builds again. I adjust the pH to 7 to 7.4 and more cycle, but ammonia
level
> is still 6. Fish are doing fine except for pleco. He seems to be
dieing as
> I type this. This is the second pleco to die during a ph adjustment.
I
> have done partial water changes any where from 20% to 50% and still the
> ammonia level remains at 6. I have gon through a 8 oz. bottle of cycle
in 1
> 1/2 weeks will no avail-theough my water is clearer. Any help would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> lori

nitrobacter optimum pH 7.3-7.5, inhibited at 6.0pH
nitrosomonas optimum pH 7.8-8.0, inhibited at 6.5pH

# reminder #
ammonia-> nitrosomonas =>nitrites -> nitrobacter => nitrates

ref: http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

Your first most pressing problem is why your tank's pH is unstable.
Cycling is the process in which the nitrifying bacteria populations
balance to the amount of waste being produced and has no significant
effect on the tank's pH.

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

Please provide more data. An ammonia of 6 is only somewhat meaningful.
NH3 is toxic and NH4 is not (iirc) so knowing how much of each you have
can be helpful. What test kit are you using? What does it say (measures
NH3 or both?). What is your NO2? Size of tank, number & size of fish,
how you seeded and how long it has been started for. What materials are
in the tank (wood, peat, plants etc). What is your source water pH. I
suspect your pH is not low out of the tap, but your kH is almost zero.
This results in a pH crash, which might be what is happening. You need
to increase your kH (some coral, dolomite, aragonite, tufa etc.. anything
with lots of calcium in it). In the meantime, lots of water changes (ie:
30% a day for 4-5 days). hth

NetMax

[Lori Wilson]

Thanks for everyones replies. My tank is 29 gallon. My pleco died this
morning from the pH adjustment. I have three platies, two neons, three
cories and two mixed fruit tetras. My thest kit for ammonia is both NH3 and
NH4 does not differentiate between the two. My pH is now 7.4, ammonia is 6
mg/l, nitrite is .5 mg/l and nitrate is 20 mg/l. Total Kh is 180 ppm and Gh
is between 75 to 150 ppm. I just did a 33% water change and gravel was very
dirty. Water was not very clear. Ammonia level is still 6 after change. I
am in week 4 of trying two cycle tank. Thanks again.

Lori




--
www.inharmonytravel.globaltravel.com
"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lori Wilson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > At what pH does the tank stop cycling? I am having a problem getting
> tank
> > to cycle. It starts to cycle, then pH drops to 6.6 to 6.4 and ammonia
> > builds again. I adjust the pH to 7 to 7.4 and more cycle, but ammonia
> level
> > is still 6. Fish are doing fine except for pleco. He seems to be
> dieing as
> > I type this. This is the second pleco to die during a ph adjustment.
> I
> > have done partial water changes any where from 20% to 50% and still the
> > ammonia level remains at 6. I have gon through a 8 oz. bottle of cycle
> in 1
> > 1/2 weeks will no avail-theough my water is clearer. Any help would be
> > appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > lori
>
> nitrobacter optimum pH 7.3-7.5, inhibited at 6.0pH
> nitrosomonas optimum pH 7.8-8.0, inhibited at 6.5pH
>
> # reminder #
> ammonia-> nitrosomonas =>nitrites -> nitrobacter => nitrates
>
> ref: http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html
>
> Your first most pressing problem is why your tank's pH is unstable.
> Cycling is the process in which the nitrifying bacteria populations
> balance to the amount of waste being produced and has no significant
> effect on the tank's pH.
>
> http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html
>
> Please provide more data. An ammonia of 6 is only somewhat meaningful.
> NH3 is toxic and NH4 is not (iirc) so knowing how much of each you have
> can be helpful. What test kit are you using? What does it say (measures
> NH3 or both?). What is your NO2? Size of tank, number & size of fish,
> how you seeded and how long it has been started for. What materials are
> in the tank (wood, peat, plants etc). What is your source water pH. I
> suspect your pH is not low out of the tap, but your kH is almost zero.
> This results in a pH crash, which might be what is happening. You need
> to increase your kH (some coral, dolomite, aragonite, tufa etc.. anything
> with lots of calcium in it). In the meantime, lots of water changes (ie:
> 30% a day for 4-5 days). hth
>
> NetMax
>
>

[Cris]

Cloudy water is normal while the tank is cycling - it's called a
bacterial bloom. It should clear up once the tank has finished
cycling.

NH3 and NH4 are ammonia and ammonium. Ammonium is less toxic and
occurs more at pH below 7. Above pH 7 ammonium is converted to
ammonia which is quite toxic to the fish.

Cris

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:54:08 GMT, "Lori Wilson" >
wrote:

>Thanks for everyones replies. My tank is 29 gallon. My pleco died this
>morning from the pH adjustment. I have three platies, two neons, three
>cories and two mixed fruit tetras. My thest kit for ammonia is both NH3 and
>NH4 does not differentiate between the two. My pH is now 7.4, ammonia is 6
>mg/l, nitrite is .5 mg/l and nitrate is 20 mg/l. Total Kh is 180 ppm and Gh
>is between 75 to 150 ppm. I just did a 33% water change and gravel was very
>dirty. Water was not very clear. Ammonia level is still 6 after change. I
>am in week 4 of trying two cycle tank. Thanks again.

[NetMax]

Feed less (once a day, what they will eat in 5 minutes, going to twice a
day after the tank is cycled) and continue with large water changes &
gravel vacuuming. Always remove any un-eaten food. Adding some
Ammo-lock would convert your toxic ammonia to non-toxic ammonium ions.
This might make the biggest positive difference at this point. If your
6ppm was all toxic ammonia, this would be very nasty. You should not do
pH adjustments on water with fish in it, as this will stress your fish.
Regular water changes should keep your pH higher. The platys might be
the next most susceptible fish (they like higher pH). Note that stresses
are cumulative (ammonia, nitrites and unstable pH).

Your buffer is 10dkH which is great. You are not in week 4 of a typical
cycle. You are in your forth week of cycling a tank and are probably in
week 2 of the cycle (high ammonia, low nitrites), but will probably fly
through the rest, as you already have some nitrobacter established (20ppm
NO3). IMHO, your tank was overloaded for an uncycled tank. I usually
stay under 10" of fish for a 29g if I was cycling with fish. This just
means that you need to feed less and water change more to get a handle on
things. hth

NetMax

"Lori Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for everyones replies. My tank is 29 gallon. My pleco died
this
> morning from the pH adjustment. I have three platies, two neons, three
> cories and two mixed fruit tetras. My thest kit for ammonia is both
NH3 and
> NH4 does not differentiate between the two. My pH is now 7.4, ammonia
is 6
> mg/l, nitrite is .5 mg/l and nitrate is 20 mg/l. Total Kh is 180 ppm
and Gh
> is between 75 to 150 ppm. I just did a 33% water change and gravel was
very
> dirty. Water was not very clear. Ammonia level is still 6 after
change. I
> am in week 4 of trying two cycle tank. Thanks again.
>
> Lori

> --
> www.inharmonytravel.globaltravel.com
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Lori Wilson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > At what pH does the tank stop cycling? I am having a problem
getting
> > tank
> > > to cycle. It starts to cycle, then pH drops to 6.6 to 6.4 and
ammonia
> > > builds again. I adjust the pH to 7 to 7.4 and more cycle, but
ammonia
> > level
> > > is still 6. Fish are doing fine except for pleco. He seems to be
> > dieing as
> > > I type this. This is the second pleco to die during a ph
adjustment.
> > I
> > > have done partial water changes any where from 20% to 50% and still
the
> > > ammonia level remains at 6. I have gon through a 8 oz. bottle of
cycle
> > in 1
> > > 1/2 weeks will no avail-theough my water is clearer. Any help
would be
> > > appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > lori
> >
> > nitrobacter optimum pH 7.3-7.5, inhibited at 6.0pH
> > nitrosomonas optimum pH 7.8-8.0, inhibited at 6.5pH
> >
> > # reminder #
> > ammonia-> nitrosomonas =>nitrites -> nitrobacter => nitrates
> >
> > ref: http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html
> >
> > Your first most pressing problem is why your tank's pH is unstable.
> > Cycling is the process in which the nitrifying bacteria populations
> > balance to the amount of waste being produced and has no significant
> > effect on the tank's pH.
> >
> > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html
> >
> > Please provide more data. An ammonia of 6 is only somewhat
meaningful.
> > NH3 is toxic and NH4 is not (iirc) so knowing how much of each you
have
> > can be helpful. What test kit are you using? What does it say
(measures
> > NH3 or both?). What is your NO2? Size of tank, number & size of
fish,
> > how you seeded and how long it has been started for. What materials
are
> > in the tank (wood, peat, plants etc). What is your source water pH.
I
> > suspect your pH is not low out of the tap, but your kH is almost
zero.
> > This results in a pH crash, which might be what is happening. You
need
> > to increase your kH (some coral, dolomite, aragonite, tufa etc..
anything
> > with lots of calcium in it). In the meantime, lots of water changes
(ie:
> > 30% a day for 4-5 days). hth
> >
> > NetMax
> >
> >
>
>