Oh the horror! The Horror! (Follow-up to Comedy of Errors)

[NSP]

Hi everyone!

I'm afraid the losses have been staggering. So far I've lost:

1 Zebra Daneo
2 Guppies (Male & Female)
2 Neon Tetras
1 Swordtail

Expected losses:

One of my Dwarf Gouramis is swimming at the surface and lying down on
his side at the floor of the tank. It is not promising.

I also have a female swordtail hanging on for dear life - gasping at
the bottom and surface of the water.

So far, my expected survivers include:

2 Serpae Tetras
1 Yoyo Loach
1 Pleco
2 Platies
2 Guppies
1 Baby Platty
1 Baby Guppy (potential)
1 Gourami

I still have ich in the tank. The petshop sold me some "Nox - Ich" -
he said it would not get in the way of the cycling and is strictly
anti-parasitic.

Question:

Working under the premise that my tank eventually cycles, does anyone
have an opinion on "Zeo-Carb" aquaclear filter inserts? It is supposed
to filter ammonia out of the water. Is there a danger in doing this
during cycling?

Also, I'm trying to get my PH levels down to a neutral 7. I'm able to
do this, but it fluctuates back up again to about 7.5. Aside from the
test and PH down, do I need to put anything else in the water to hold
it in place? Do I need a PH Stabilizer - or is that just for plants?

All help appreciated.

The good news is the pet shop has been crediting me back for the
corpses without question. The bad news is I deeply regret renting
"Finding Nemo" during this aquatic catastrophe - good movie though.

Regards,
Neil

[Paulo]

Im still thinking.....do just your weekly water change and wait for the
cycling of the tank...

--
Paulo
"NSP" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi everyone!
>
> I'm afraid the losses have been staggering. So far I've lost:
>
> 1 Zebra Daneo
> 2 Guppies (Male & Female)
> 2 Neon Tetras
> 1 Swordtail
>
> Expected losses:
>
> One of my Dwarf Gouramis is swimming at the surface and lying down on
> his side at the floor of the tank. It is not promising.
>
> I also have a female swordtail hanging on for dear life - gasping at
> the bottom and surface of the water.
>
> So far, my expected survivers include:
>
> 2 Serpae Tetras
> 1 Yoyo Loach
> 1 Pleco
> 2 Platies
> 2 Guppies
> 1 Baby Platty
> 1 Baby Guppy (potential)
> 1 Gourami
>
> I still have ich in the tank. The petshop sold me some "Nox - Ich" -
> he said it would not get in the way of the cycling and is strictly
> anti-parasitic.
>
> Question:
>
> Working under the premise that my tank eventually cycles, does anyone
> have an opinion on "Zeo-Carb" aquaclear filter inserts? It is supposed
> to filter ammonia out of the water. Is there a danger in doing this
> during cycling?
>
> Also, I'm trying to get my PH levels down to a neutral 7. I'm able to
> do this, but it fluctuates back up again to about 7.5. Aside from the
> test and PH down, do I need to put anything else in the water to hold
> it in place? Do I need a PH Stabilizer - or is that just for plants?
>
> All help appreciated.
>
> The good news is the pet shop has been crediting me back for the
> corpses without question. The bad news is I deeply regret renting
> "Finding Nemo" during this aquatic catastrophe - good movie though.
>
> Regards,
> Neil

[Dennis Fox]

Paulo wrote:
> Im still thinking.....do just your weekly water change and wait for the
> cycling of the tank...
>


And STOP trying to adjust the PH ... PH _changes_ are much harder on the
fish than any particular PH that is stable ... and besides, 7.5 is
barely high at all.

HTH,
Dennis

[Donald Kerns]

NSP wrote:

>
> Working under the premise that my tank eventually cycles, does anyone
> have an opinion on "Zeo-Carb" aquaclear filter inserts? It is supposed
> to filter ammonia out of the water. Is there a danger in doing this
> during cycling?

You want AmQuel, neutralizes the toxic part of ammonia while leaving it
available for the biobuggies that are trying to grow. The Zeo carb may
filter out the ammonia, but not allow enough to feed the biobuggies
that you're trying to get growing...

> Also, I'm trying to get my PH levels down to a neutral 7. I'm able to
> do this, but it fluctuates back up again to about 7.5. Aside from the
> test and PH down, do I need to put anything else in the water to hold
> it in place? Do I need a PH Stabilizer - or is that just for plants?

7.5 is a just fine pH. Leave it alone. It is more important for the fish
to have a STABLE pH rather than the exact "correct" one.

-Donald
--
"When you've lost your ability to laugh, you've lost your ability to
think straight." -To Inherit the Wind

[Tedd Jacobs]

"Dennis Fox" wrote
> Paulo wrote:
> > Im still thinking.....do just your weekly water change and wait for the
> > cycling of the tank...
> >
>
>
> And STOP trying to adjust the PH ... PH _changes_ are much harder on the
> fish than any particular PH that is stable ... and besides, 7.5 is
> barely high at all.
>
> HTH,
> Dennis
>

i agree with both of these, a stable PH is much more important than 'correct'
PH, and keeping up (i'd prefer keeping ahead considering the infestation of ick)
with your water changes is the best thing you can do.

i know nothing of the brand of ick treatment you mentioned, nor the filter
inserts, perhaps some others here will. i will stick to my original assertion;
dont keep messing with stuff, keep the water changes going, and 'let' the tank
cycle, then you can play with the other stuff.

a short story-
when i first started out i had all the same problems. my first cycle was in
a tank totally infested with ick, had too many fish, and all the wrong types of
fish. i stopped treating with the medications (as per recommendations), waited
two weeks for the tank to finish its cycle, then began medicating. after
treating the tank for about 5 weeks straight, i still had ick. finally i gave up
and quit treating for it and just left it alone except for the water changes.
the ick cleared itself up.
medications are good, there are some who will swear by them. but your first
line of defense is your fishes own immune system. in the case of my first tank
once i stopped messing with it, the fish became less stressed, which increased
their immune system, which kicked the ick out of the tank.
of the fish i started out with in that cycle, i have only one angel and one
fantail gold fish (for those of you who might remember, this is the one i
resuscitated) that survived it.

[D&M]

> I still have ich in the tank. The petshop sold me some "Nox - Ich" -
> he said it would not get in the way of the cycling and is strictly
> anti-parasitic.

Careful using that stuff, very powerful, especially on smaller fish. At half
dose, I killed 12 neons in 10 minutes. I keep a bottle on hand as a absolute
last resort for clearing ich. It's not good for scaleless fish either, as
it's a concentrated mel. green solution.
It also makes a good sterilizer at full dose, whipes out everything,
beneficial bacteria included.



> Question:
>
> Working under the premise that my tank eventually cycles, does anyone
> have an opinion on "Zeo-Carb" aquaclear filter inserts? It is supposed
> to filter ammonia out of the water. Is there a danger in doing this
> during cycling?

Zeo-Carb is a mix of an ammonia removing agent, such as ammo-lock, and
carbon. Could see two problems using it at this time, 1. removal of the ich
meds, and 2. removal of ammonia, rather than growing natural beneficial
bacteria. I would think it would extend the time it would take for your tank
to cycle, as well as extend the time it takes to remove the ich.


>
> Also, I'm trying to get my PH levels down to a neutral 7. I'm able to
> do this, but it fluctuates back up again to about 7.5. Aside from the
> test and PH down, do I need to put anything else in the water to hold
> it in place? Do I need a PH Stabilizer - or is that just for plants?
>
The fish you listed should be fine at 7.5, I can only dream of the day my
take is ever at that, it's average is 8.0-8.2 as the water is very hard and
loaded with calcium.

On a side note, I just finished clearing a 90g tank of ich with no fish
loss. elevevated the temp to 82, added aquarium salt to the water, and some
aquarisol. I vacuumed the gravel a couple times throughout the week, fed
them a healthy diet of frozen foods.
After a week, all visible signs of ich were gone, and flashing stopped. I
believe the secret is to keep the fish as less stressed as possible during
treatment. In my past experience, everytime the fish got the slightest bit
stressed, the ich moved from fish to fish until they were all covered.


>
> Regards,
> Neil

[NetMax]

"D&M" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>
> > I still have ich in the tank. The petshop sold me some "Nox - Ich" -
> > he said it would not get in the way of the cycling and is strictly
> > anti-parasitic.
>
> Careful using that stuff, very powerful, especially on smaller fish. At
half
> dose, I killed 12 neons in 10 minutes. I keep a bottle on hand as a
absolute
> last resort for clearing ich. It's not good for scaleless fish either,
as
> it's a concentrated mel. green solution.
> It also makes a good sterilizer at full dose, whipes out everything,
> beneficial bacteria included.
>
<snip>

AFAIK, malachite green should have no ill effect on bacteria, but I'm no
expert. Formalin is strong stuff often used in conjunction with
malachite green for Ich treatment, but Nox-Ich does not use any. Quick
Cure does. I've used both with Neon tetras, without significant
unexpected mortality, but these are supervised tanks, so any problems are
usually spotted early. ymmv In home tanks, I start with about 25%
dosage and after about 1/2 day, add in the next 25% dosage (to the
maximum 50% for Neons). If the root cause has been addressed (usually
bad water) and they were stable to start with, the success rate is ok.

It's relatively easy to kill small sick tetras if they are too far gone.
Almost any dosage of any medication can push them over the edge. The
only exception I've found has been Melafix. While Melafix has no sudden
restorative power, it also doesn't seem to push too many over the edge.
I've found it useful for slowly clearing out mild bacterial problems.
All medications seem to have their niche (except one or two I will not
mention ;~)

NetMax