Newbie with Algae Problem

[David J. Braunegg]

I am a newbie with a 10-gallon tank we've had for 4 weeks. We have 2
Corys, 2 Platys, and now 4 baby Platys that have grown enough that it
looks like they won't be eaten. (We didn't plan on them. These have
survived and are now in the 1/4 - 3/8" range.)

We made the mistake of trying a couple of live plants, upping the
lighting to 12 hours a day with a Triton tube. The pregnant Platy was
voracious and decimated the plants. (We now have plastic.) The overfed
Platys generated a lot of fish poop and loose, decaying plant material.
I vacuumed, but should have done it earlier.

Now, we are growing algae on the aquarium walls and on the plaster
castle that the kids picked out at the fish store.

I've cut the lighting back to 8 hours. What else should I do? Hot
water rinse for the castle? Wipe the sides of the aquarium with a
sponge?

What should I do to control the algae?
- Periodic (weely?) manual cleaning?
- I've heard that snails eat algae, but are a no-no because they
multiply. (I've removed 5 that came with the plants--found over the
course of 2 weeks.)
- I've seen mention of Plecos as algae-eaters. How big will they get?
(We are trying to stay in the 1-2" size at most.) Will it get lonely
with only one? (We had hoped to add a couple other fish of our
choosing, not Plecos.) Is it only a bottom feeder, or will it take care
of the aquarium walls and castle? Will I still need to do manual
cleaning?
- Other algae-eaters?
- Other possibilities?

Thanks for any and all help.

Dave

[Gail Futoran]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in
message ...
> I am a newbie with a 10-gallon tank we've had for 4 weeks.
We have 2
> Corys, 2 Platys, and now 4 baby Platys that have grown
enough that it
> looks like they won't be eaten. (We didn't plan on them.
These have
> survived and are now in the 1/4 - 3/8" range.)

And you're probably overstocked. Any chance of taking the
babies to the LFS (local fish store)?

> We made the mistake of trying a couple of live plants,
upping the
> lighting to 12 hours a day with a Triton tube. The
pregnant Platy was
> voracious and decimated the plants. (We now have
plastic.) The overfed
> Platys generated a lot of fish poop and loose, decaying
plant material.
> I vacuumed, but should have done it earlier.
>
> Now, we are growing algae on the aquarium walls and on the
plaster
> castle that the kids picked out at the fish store.
>
> I've cut the lighting back to 8 hours. What else should I
do? Hot
> water rinse for the castle? Wipe the sides of the
aquarium with a
> sponge?

Be careful about adding chemicals into the tank. If you use
a sponge to wipe the aquarium sides, buy one designed for
tanks and then use it only for that. You can wipe most of
the algae off the decoration with the same sponge.

> What should I do to control the algae?
> - Periodic (weely?) manual cleaning?
> - I've heard that snails eat algae, but are a no-no
because they
> multiply. (I've removed 5 that came with the
plants--found over the
> course of 2 weeks.)
> - I've seen mention of Plecos as algae-eaters. How big
will they get?

Big. There are dwarfs, I believe. I don't have experience
with plecos.

> (We are trying to stay in the 1-2" size at most.) Will it
get lonely
> with only one? (We had hoped to add a couple other fish
of our
> choosing, not Plecos.) Is it only a bottom feeder, or
will it take care
> of the aquarium walls and castle? Will I still need to do
manual
> cleaning?
> - Other algae-eaters?
> - Other possibilities?
>
> Thanks for any and all help.
>
> Dave

Otocinclus.
http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/oto_aff.html

They can be fragile but once they've settled into your tank,
should last awhile. And they're not that expensive, so not
a problem to replace. Get the largest you can find; those
seem to be hardier than the younger, smaller ones.

One of my favorite activities is "find the otos". Sometimes
they'll hang out on the front of the tank, most times
they'll be on the glass or gravel in back. But they do the
job.

Well, they won't eat all kinds of algae, but some that grows
on my decorations I like because it softens the look of the
decoration and it helps consume nitrates.

Gail

[Jim Morcombe]

I'd recommend a Bristlenose.

They are fun to watch, clean the glass and the decorations, get on with
virtually any other fish and don't grow too big.

Jim


David J. Braunegg > wrote in message
...
> I am a newbie with a 10-gallon tank we've had for 4 weeks. We have 2
> Corys, 2 Platys, and now 4 baby Platys that have grown enough that it
> looks like they won't be eaten. (We didn't plan on them. These have
> survived and are now in the 1/4 - 3/8" range.)
>
> We made the mistake of trying a couple of live plants, upping the
> lighting to 12 hours a day with a Triton tube. The pregnant Platy was
> voracious and decimated the plants. (We now have plastic.) The overfed
> Platys generated a lot of fish poop and loose, decaying plant material.
> I vacuumed, but should have done it earlier.
>
> Now, we are growing algae on the aquarium walls and on the plaster
> castle that the kids picked out at the fish store.
>
> I've cut the lighting back to 8 hours. What else should I do? Hot
> water rinse for the castle? Wipe the sides of the aquarium with a
> sponge?
>
> What should I do to control the algae?
> - Periodic (weely?) manual cleaning?
> - I've heard that snails eat algae, but are a no-no because they
> multiply. (I've removed 5 that came with the plants--found over the
> course of 2 weeks.)
> - I've seen mention of Plecos as algae-eaters. How big will they get?
> (We are trying to stay in the 1-2" size at most.) Will it get lonely
> with only one? (We had hoped to add a couple other fish of our
> choosing, not Plecos.) Is it only a bottom feeder, or will it take care
> of the aquarium walls and castle? Will I still need to do manual
> cleaning?
> - Other algae-eaters?
> - Other possibilities?
>
> Thanks for any and all help.
>
> Dave

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Jim Morcombe wrote:
>
> I'd recommend a Bristlenose.
>
> They are fun to watch, clean the glass and the decorations, get on with
> virtually any other fish and don't grow too big.
>
> Jim

Jim is right Bristlenoses will not attach your fish like most other
plecos. What about an apple snail - they will only reproduce if they
have a male or female counterpart - they are not asexual.

As for algae (or probably diatoms is what you are seeing too) - they are
good for the water. Cleaning it ALL out of the tank only encourages
new algae/diatoms to grow - this is because the nutrients in the water
that they feed off are ever more prominent in the water if you remove all
of them. So only clean the viewing pane.

[Happy'Cam'per]

If you don't have any live plants in the tank anymore then cut your light
cycle down to 5-6 hours. NO more algae.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**



"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
...
> I am a newbie with a 10-gallon tank we've had for 4 weeks. We have 2
> Corys, 2 Platys, and now 4 baby Platys that have grown enough that it
> looks like they won't be eaten. (We didn't plan on them. These have
> survived and are now in the 1/4 - 3/8" range.)
>
> We made the mistake of trying a couple of live plants, upping the
> lighting to 12 hours a day with a Triton tube. The pregnant Platy was
> voracious and decimated the plants. (We now have plastic.) The overfed
> Platys generated a lot of fish poop and loose, decaying plant material.
> I vacuumed, but should have done it earlier.
>
> Now, we are growing algae on the aquarium walls and on the plaster
> castle that the kids picked out at the fish store.
>
> I've cut the lighting back to 8 hours. What else should I do? Hot
> water rinse for the castle? Wipe the sides of the aquarium with a
> sponge?
>
> What should I do to control the algae?
> - Periodic (weely?) manual cleaning?
> - I've heard that snails eat algae, but are a no-no because they
> multiply. (I've removed 5 that came with the plants--found over the
> course of 2 weeks.)
> - I've seen mention of Plecos as algae-eaters. How big will they get?
> (We are trying to stay in the 1-2" size at most.) Will it get lonely
> with only one? (We had hoped to add a couple other fish of our
> choosing, not Plecos.) Is it only a bottom feeder, or will it take care
> of the aquarium walls and castle? Will I still need to do manual
> cleaning?
> - Other algae-eaters?
> - Other possibilities?
>
> Thanks for any and all help.
>
> Dave

[David J. Braunegg]

Gail, Jim, Geezer, and Happy,

Thank you for your help. I have a few follow-up questions below, if
anyone is willing to field them. I have been reading and asking
questions at the LFS when I can get there, but there is a lot to learn.


Gail Futoran wrote:
>
> And you're probably overstocked. Any chance of taking the
> babies to the LFS (local fish store)?

Overstocked for the size of the tank or just because it is still
cycling? (4 weeks, 10 gallons, 2 Corys, 2 Platys, 4 baby Platys) By
the inch-per-gallon rule, I should be able to go up to 10" of fish--I am
only at 5". Or, according to Dick Mills in the book "You and Your
Aquarium", tropical freshwater fish need 12 sq.in. of surface per inch
of fish, which would mean that my 10"x20" tank could actually hold up to
16" of fish.


> Otocinclus.
> http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/oto_aff.html
>
> Well, they won't eat all kinds of algae, but some that grows
> on my decorations I like because it softens the look of the
> decoration and it helps consume nitrates.

Do you know if Otocinclus will they eat the algae that is growing on
some of the gravel? The web page you referenced says "groups of at
least 3". Will a single one be lonely or with the Corys be enough to
keep it company?


Jim Morcombe wrote:
>
> I'd recommend a Bristlenose.

Geezer From The Freezer wrote:
>
> What about an apple snail

I'll look into these, as well as the Otocinclus. The choice will depend
on availability at the LFS, size (small--to possibly allow me to add a
couple more fish--see question above), and need for more than one
(ditto).

Will any of these choices eat the algae from the gravel, or just from
the walls and castle?


Happy'Cam'per wrote:
>
> If you don't have any live plants in the tank anymore then cut your light
> cycle down to 5-6 hours. NO more algae.

I'll cut it back tonight. I'll still have to clean out the existing
algae, though. I assume that it won't die and float away to the filter
on its own.

Dave

[RedForeman ©®]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
> I've cut the lighting back to 8 hours. What else should I do? Hot
> water rinse for the castle? Wipe the sides of the aquarium with a
> sponge?

That's a good place to start, and feed less.... That's key....

> What should I do to control the algae?

Start at the beginning, don't over complicate by getting new fish, get your
tank right and let it get balanced, and you'll be ok...

> - Periodic (weely?) manual cleaning?

I'd go with a top off every week, and a good vacuuming every other week, 25%
water change while doing it.

> - I've heard that snails eat algae, but are a no-no because they
> multiply. (I've removed 5 that came with the plants--found over the
> course of 2 weeks.)

Skip this for a few weeks, you'll see improvement in your tank and won't
need it if you take some of the advice here....

> - I've seen mention of Plecos as algae-eaters. How big will they get?
> (We are trying to stay in the 1-2" size at most.) Will it get lonely
> with only one? (We had hoped to add a couple other fish of our
> choosing, not Plecos.) Is it only a bottom feeder, or will it take care
> of the aquarium walls and castle? Will I still need to do manual
> cleaning?
> - Other algae-eaters?
> - Other possibilities?

Pl*cos are a wonderful addition, dwarf species are great!!! IMHO, I'd wait a
few days/weeks to let things kinda balance and settle down a bit... You ARE
under the 1" per gallon, BUT, you've got babies that are going to grow and
increasingly stretch the tanks ability to catch up... As if, it's like the
sewer system has to catch up to deal with you when you have kids, etc..
hahaha!!!

You have a nice selection of fish, albeit, a smaller tank, but that'll soon
be ok, because you'll have more platys and more platys and more platys....
you'll see :^)

--

RedForeman ©®

[Gail Futoran]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in
message ...
> Gail, Jim, Geezer, and Happy,
>
> Thank you for your help. I have a few follow-up questions
below, if
> anyone is willing to field them. I have been reading and
asking
> questions at the LFS when I can get there, but there is a
lot to learn.
>
>
> Gail Futoran wrote:
> >
> > And you're probably overstocked. Any chance of taking
the
> > babies to the LFS (local fish store)?
>
> Overstocked for the size of the tank or just because it is
still
> cycling? (4 weeks, 10 gallons, 2 Corys, 2 Platys, 4 baby
Platys) By
> the inch-per-gallon rule, I should be able to go up to 10"
of fish--I am
> only at 5". Or, according to Dick Mills in the book "You
and Your
> Aquarium", tropical freshwater fish need 12 sq.in. of
surface per inch
> of fish, which would mean that my 10"x20" tank could
actually hold up to
> 16" of fish.

Adult Corydoras catfish are about 2" in length (females can
be bigger), so that's a possible adult size of 4" right
there. I don't have Platys but my fish books list them at
2.5" adult size, and even if we take off .5" for the tail,
2" x 6 = 12" of fish, + 4" of Corys = 18" of fish and you
want to add a couple of Otos. :) Bigger tanks tend to be a
bit more stable. I slightly overstock my 20 and 30 gallon
tanks, but not my 10 gallon tank.

The "inch per gallon" rule is controversial, since it
doesn't take into account final body size (a 6" fish is much
messier than a 1" fish); whether a fish is a herbivore,
omnivore, or carnivore; whether it is a fast or slow
swimmer, etc.

The other problem is the difference between gallons of water
and surface area. Two tanks with the same number of gallons
can be stocked differently because one has a much larger
surface area for gas exchange. There are a number of web
sites that discuss that issue. Here's a few I came across:
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/tanks-us.htm
http://webpages.charter.net/jps3597/stockfeed.html
http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/stockguide.shtml

If you don't mind being religious about partial water
changes and if you are careful about overfeeding, and you
have healthy live plants to use up some of the nitrates, you
will probably be ok even a bit overstocked (which you aren't
now but will be eventually).

> > Otocinclus.
> > http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/oto_aff.html
> >
> > Well, they won't eat all kinds of algae, but some that
grows
> > on my decorations I like because it softens the look of
the
> > decoration and it helps consume nitrates.
>
> Do you know if Otocinclus will they eat the algae that is
growing on
> some of the gravel?

They should. They don't eat all kinds of algae but you
could observe them for awhile and whatever they don't take
care of you can clean yourself. But a little algae on
surfaces doesn't hurt anything and helps keep nitrates under
control.

The web page you referenced says "groups of at
> least 3". Will a single one be lonely or with the Corys
be enough to
> keep it company?

I would not keep a single Oto. They do like to hang around
together. I try to keep at least 3 per tank but at times
have had only 2. They don't tend to hang around other fish.

You're asking good questions. Good luck on your setup.

Gail

[Geezer From The Freezer]

"RedForeman =A9=AE" wrote:
> I'd go with a top off every week, and a good vacuuming every other =

> week, 25% water change while doing it.

I always water change AFTER gravel vacumming - means that some
mess floating in the water is taken out

[David J. Braunegg]

High Flight wrote:
>
> David J. Braunegg > says...
> > I am a newbie with a 10-gallon tank we've had for 4 weeks. We have 2
> > Corys, 2 Platys, and now 4 baby Platys that have grown enough that it
> > looks like they won't be eaten. (We didn't plan on them. These have
> > survived and are now in the 1/4 - 3/8" range.)
> >
> > We made the mistake of trying a couple of live plants,
>
> No, you made the mistake of starting up a new tank and having NO idea what
> you're doing. Read about cycling, and start over.

Perhaps a bit harsh. I've been reading and also listening to the advice
of the people at the LFS. LFS told me that it was OK to add plants
instead of waiting longer. They told me there would not be a problem
with the Platys eating the plants. And, unless the gestation period is
*really* short, the Platy was already pregnant when we got her--we did
not purposely add 4 baby Platys to a tank that was still cycling. We
also don't have room for a 20-gallon tank, so it was the 10-gallon or
nothing.

Unless I am missing some key piece of information, I see no reason to
kill all the fish, dump the water, and start over. It seems to me
instead that the cycling will finish, that bi-weekly water changes will
help bring down the nitrites and nitrates from the excessive fish poop
from all the plants they ate, and that the algae will be less of a
problem with less light and less nitrogen.

What am I missing that causes you to recommend that I start over?

Dave

[Geezer From The Freezer]

David,

Take what the LFS with a pinch of salt. They want you to come back
so will sometimes give bad information. Members on this newsgroup
are much more reliable in my experience.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

High Flight wrote:
>
> Geezer From The Freezer > says...
> >> I'd go with a top off every week, and a good vacuuming every other
> >> week, 25% water change while doing it.
> >
> > I always water change AFTER gravel vacumming - means that some
> > mess floating in the water is taken out
>
> All my water changes occur while I'm vacuuming. Debris is minimal to
> non-existent. This is with 10g tanks, using a modified Python with a
> 1-1/4" diameter gravel tube.
>

Just got a python, the faucet doesn't fit my darn tap! :(

[RedForeman ©®]

> I've been reading and also listening to the advice of the people at the
LFS.

Mistake number 1 ---> listen to us, we know better....

> LFS told me that it was OK to add plants instead of waiting longer.

Mistake number 2 --->sometimes, but not always...

> They told me there would not be a problem with the Platys eating the
plants.

Mistake number 3 ---> oh brother... here we go again...


Sounds like you're not far from being that LFS best customer... Don't listen
to someone trying to sell you fish, rather listen to us, fellow aquariasts,
who are here, for the benefit of the fish and the hobby. We're not trying
to sell you anything, in fact, we're trying to educate, we're trying to help
you learn and keep your tanks sparkling clean... Understand, that
repeatedly, some ppl come in and post horror stories, and neglect to read
our responses... Those very same ppl come back a week later and say,
something even worse has happened... We ask questions, they disregard, or
ignore our questions, and yet AGAIN, come back and say, the LFS told me to
do this, and I did, now this has happened.... In the end, we start to
ignore those who ignore us.... we get ****ed when it's obvious we're being
ignored.... with all our efforts being thwarted, and the only thing left to
do is 'be harsh' to get your attention... once the OP realizes that we're
here FOR them, and not AGAINST them because of the mistakes they've made,
they'll soon realize to listen, read and research.... much research needs
to be done before a good tank can become a great tank....

--

RedForeman ©®





"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
...
>
> High Flight wrote:
> >
> > David J. Braunegg > says...
> > > I am a newbie with a 10-gallon tank we've had for 4 weeks. We have 2
> > > Corys, 2 Platys, and now 4 baby Platys that have grown enough that it
> > > looks like they won't be eaten. (We didn't plan on them. These have
> > > survived and are now in the 1/4 - 3/8" range.)
> > >
> > > We made the mistake of trying a couple of live plants,
> >
> > No, you made the mistake of starting up a new tank and having NO idea
what
> > you're doing. Read about cycling, and start over.
>

> Unless I am missing some key piece of information, I see no reason to
> kill all the fish, dump the water, and start over. It seems to me
> instead that the cycling will finish, that bi-weekly water changes will
> help bring down the nitrites and nitrates from the excessive fish poop
> from all the plants they ate, and that the algae will be less of a
> problem with less light and less nitrogen.
>
> What am I missing that causes you to recommend that I start over?
>
> Dave

[Dan Drake]

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:40:06 UTC, Geezer From The Freezer
> wrote:

>
>
> High Flight wrote:
> >
> > Geezer From The Freezer > says...
> > >> I'd go with a top off every week, and a good vacuuming every other
> > >> week, 25% water change while doing it.
> > >
> > > I always water change AFTER gravel vacumming - means that some
> > > mess floating in the water is taken out
> >
> > All my water changes occur while I'm vacuuming. Debris is minimal to
> > non-existent. This is with 10g tanks, using a modified Python with a
> > 1-1/4" diameter gravel tube.
> >
>
> Just got a python, the faucet doesn't fit my darn tap! :(

They make a series of adapters; have you looked into these? Mine connects
to a bathroom tap through two adapaters in a row.


--
Dan Drake

http://www.dandrake.com

Human rights in Cuba: 600 prisoners held 18 months and more,
without charge, without bail, without counsel, facing trial by
secret special tribunals with power to impose the death
penalty. And that's just one place. Guantanamo.