Out of Ideas - Should I Euthanize my Fish?!?

[NSP]

Hi all,

As my title states, I'm out of ideas.

What started out as ich, turned into fin rot, what turned into fin rot
has turned into eye cloud, what turned into eye cloud is probably
going to end up in the toilet.

I have been trying to treat my tank with Quick Cure for about a week
now with little to no success.

In fact, the ich is getting worse rather than better!

When my betta got fin and tail rot in addition to ich, I added Furan-2
and am on the last dose.

Then my Ammonia started climbing in the tank.

So, beginning 3 days ago, I've been adding Ammolock-2 to detoxify the
ammonia.

So, I have an 85 degree tank with the following contents:

2 Mollys (one has eye cloud, the other has some ich spots on his tail)
2 Bolivian Rams (one has an ich spot on his fin - this is a new case
just today)
1 Pleco (healthy)
1 Betta (the fin rot may be cured and he is more active, but he is
covered in ich).

As the Furan-2 is on its last dose, I will put the carbon back into
the tank to get this crap filtered out of the water later tonight.

This is very upsetting because the tank started out as cycled.

Tank Temp 85 degrees F
Ammonia 1.2mg/l
Nitrite Undetectable

Should I bother doing anything about the eye cloud? I'm really getting
tired of putting these chemicals into the water. I'm not sure if they
are making things better or worse.

I don't have any salt in the water at this time. Given the fish I
have, I'm not sure if the salt would really do anything, or just give
me the feeling of doing something for the tank.

Given the above, would I be correct to assume that no matter what I
do, the tank will always have an underlying disease that will attack
any newcomers?

Regards,
Neil

[Mel]

I expect that the reason the ich is failing to disappear is because of the
poor water quality. Because the fish are stressed, as soon as the med begins
to work, more ich developes.
Have you tried doing daily water changes of say 40%, while medicating at the
same time? This way the water will improve daily and hopefully this will
enable the meds to kill the ich. Of course, you will need to add the
relevant amount of med to all the new water added (just enough for the new
water and not the whole tank) so it might work out rather expensive but I
reckon it's a worth a try. You might need to keep it up for over 2 weeks to
kill any remaining spores.
Mel.


"NSP" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi all,
>
> As my title states, I'm out of ideas.
>
> What started out as ich, turned into fin rot, what turned into fin rot
> has turned into eye cloud, what turned into eye cloud is probably
> going to end up in the toilet.
>
> I have been trying to treat my tank with Quick Cure for about a week
> now with little to no success.
>
> In fact, the ich is getting worse rather than better!
>
> When my betta got fin and tail rot in addition to ich, I added Furan-2
> and am on the last dose.
>
> Then my Ammonia started climbing in the tank.
>
> So, beginning 3 days ago, I've been adding Ammolock-2 to detoxify the
> ammonia.
>
> So, I have an 85 degree tank with the following contents:
>
> 2 Mollys (one has eye cloud, the other has some ich spots on his tail)
> 2 Bolivian Rams (one has an ich spot on his fin - this is a new case
> just today)
> 1 Pleco (healthy)
> 1 Betta (the fin rot may be cured and he is more active, but he is
> covered in ich).
>
> As the Furan-2 is on its last dose, I will put the carbon back into
> the tank to get this crap filtered out of the water later tonight.
>
> This is very upsetting because the tank started out as cycled.
>
> Tank Temp 85 degrees F
> Ammonia 1.2mg/l
> Nitrite Undetectable
>
> Should I bother doing anything about the eye cloud? I'm really getting
> tired of putting these chemicals into the water. I'm not sure if they
> are making things better or worse.
>
> I don't have any salt in the water at this time. Given the fish I
> have, I'm not sure if the salt would really do anything, or just give
> me the feeling of doing something for the tank.
>
> Given the above, would I be correct to assume that no matter what I
> do, the tank will always have an underlying disease that will attack
> any newcomers?
>
> Regards,
> Neil

[NSP]

> I expect that the reason the ich is failing to disappear is because of the
> poor water quality. Because the fish are stressed, as soon as the med begins
> to work, more ich developes.
> Have you tried doing daily water changes of say 40%, while medicating at the
> same time? This way the water will improve daily and hopefully this will
> enable the meds to kill the ich. Of course, you will need to add the
> relevant amount of med to all the new water added (just enough for the new
> water and not the whole tank) so it might work out rather expensive but I
> reckon it's a worth a try. You might need to keep it up for over 2 weeks to
> kill any remaining spores.

With all the meds my fish have been getting, the carbon filter has
only been used perhaps 20% of the time since I got my tank. That in
itself may be poisoning the water.

While most of the fish are active (the Molly being the exception), I
think the high temperature and continuous medication is just creating
a poisonous environment for my fish.

The history of my tank is not a pretty one. I started with about 17
fish in an uncycled tank. Of course, most of the fish died except 4
survivors. There was ich during the cycle - but it disappeared once
the cycle completed.

The tank cycled to satisfaction, and I added 2 Bolivian Rams and the
Betta.

Everything was ok still until I added the Molly and 5 neon tetras.

That's when things went nuts again.

The Neon Tetras and Betta were first with ich - then followed by the
Molly.

Then I tried treating with Quick Cure.

Then the Betta's fins started to fall to pieces. So, in went the
Furan-2 combined with Quick Cure.

Now the Betta is behaving better, but the ich remains - and the Molly
has a cloudy slime on her eyes - one eye looks like it has a second
skin.

The tank will probably have to recycle because the Furan-2 killed off
the tank bacteria, and the Quick Cure isn't so quick (I already
emptied a bottle of Nox-Ich on the tank about a week and half
earlier).

I have the carbon in the filter now. If the water is clear tomorrow,
I'll do a water change and put some Quick Cure in. I think I will have
to ignore the cloud eye for now.

Did I mention the Ammolock-2? I have an ammonia rise now. All these
chemicals - they can't be good for the fish.

I don't think there is anything else I can do.

This tank has been a depressing experience.

Neil

[D&M]

Don 't want to sound too negative, but you're having worse luck than I had
when I first started.

When I first started in the aquaria world, and then ran into trouble, first
thing I turned to was meds. I used every med there was on the shelf for
every possible disease it appeared the fish had.

The water quality had to be crap with all the meds etc., ended up, the final
prognoses was that with all the treatments, I stressed out healthy fish into
contracting ich, getting popeye, all kinds of stuff.

I slowed it all down, stopped medicating the tank, did daily 30%
waterchanges for a few days with carbon, treated the water with a bit of
aquarium salt. I lost a couple more fish, but the other sick fish revived on
their own.

Recently, I got some ich in my 90g with a new arrival, just elevated the
temps to 84f, treated with salt, and it went away.

The moral of my long winded blurb is sometimes a person can overtreat for
problems, only making things worse. All these meds you're dumping into the
tank, the fish absorb, eventually weakening them, making them more
susceptable to other diseases and parasites.

My only advice would be to lay off them for a while, clean your water up,
give them a "bit" of salt. But you may lose a fish or two in the process of
cleaning up, if they're to weak to hang on.

Once your tank is cleaned up, fully cycled, you'll be fine. If you get new
fish, quaranteen them, make sure they don't have ich. If ich does get in the
tank, if the tank is clean and cycled, other fish are healthy, don't panic,
the fish can fight it off without meds. Even the infected ich fish will
recover from the ich without meds. Method seems to work with most aquaria
problems.

Cheers from a fellow beginner. ;)


"NSP" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi all,
>
> As my title states, I'm out of ideas.
>
> What started out as ich, turned into fin rot, what turned into fin rot
> has turned into eye cloud, what turned into eye cloud is probably
> going to end up in the toilet.
>
> I have been trying to treat my tank with Quick Cure for about a week
> now with little to no success.
>
> In fact, the ich is getting worse rather than better!
>
> When my betta got fin and tail rot in addition to ich, I added Furan-2
> and am on the last dose.
>
> Then my Ammonia started climbing in the tank.
>
> So, beginning 3 days ago, I've been adding Ammolock-2 to detoxify the
> ammonia.
>
> So, I have an 85 degree tank with the following contents:
>
> 2 Mollys (one has eye cloud, the other has some ich spots on his tail)
> 2 Bolivian Rams (one has an ich spot on his fin - this is a new case
> just today)
> 1 Pleco (healthy)
> 1 Betta (the fin rot may be cured and he is more active, but he is
> covered in ich).
>
> As the Furan-2 is on its last dose, I will put the carbon back into
> the tank to get this crap filtered out of the water later tonight.
>
> This is very upsetting because the tank started out as cycled.
>
> Tank Temp 85 degrees F
> Ammonia 1.2mg/l
> Nitrite Undetectable
>
> Should I bother doing anything about the eye cloud? I'm really getting
> tired of putting these chemicals into the water. I'm not sure if they
> are making things better or worse.
>
> I don't have any salt in the water at this time. Given the fish I
> have, I'm not sure if the salt would really do anything, or just give
> me the feeling of doing something for the tank.
>
> Given the above, would I be correct to assume that no matter what I
> do, the tank will always have an underlying disease that will attack
> any newcomers?
>
> Regards,
> Neil

[RedForeman ©®]

"NSP" > wrote in message
> Hi all,
>
> As my title states, I'm out of ideas.
>
> What started out as ich, turned into fin rot, what turned into fin rot
> has turned into eye cloud, what turned into eye cloud is probably
> going to end up in the toilet.
>
> I have been trying to treat my tank with Quick Cure for about a week
> now with little to no success.
>
> In fact, the ich is getting worse rather than better!
>
> When my betta got fin and tail rot in addition to ich, I added Furan-2
> and am on the last dose.
>
> Then my Ammonia started climbing in the tank.
>
> So, beginning 3 days ago, I've been adding Ammolock-2 to detoxify the
> ammonia.
>
> So, I have an 85 degree tank with the following contents:
>
> 2 Mollys (one has eye cloud, the other has some ich spots on his tail)
> 2 Bolivian Rams (one has an ich spot on his fin - this is a new case
> just today)
> 1 Pleco (healthy)
> 1 Betta (the fin rot may be cured and he is more active, but he is
> covered in ich).
>
> As the Furan-2 is on its last dose, I will put the carbon back into
> the tank to get this crap filtered out of the water later tonight.
>
> This is very upsetting because the tank started out as cycled.
>
> Tank Temp 85 degrees F
> Ammonia 1.2mg/l
> Nitrite Undetectable
>
> Should I bother doing anything about the eye cloud? I'm really getting
> tired of putting these chemicals into the water. I'm not sure if they
> are making things better or worse.
>
> I don't have any salt in the water at this time. Given the fish I
> have, I'm not sure if the salt would really do anything, or just give
> me the feeling of doing something for the tank.
>
> Given the above, would I be correct to assume that no matter what I
> do, the tank will always have an underlying disease that will attack
> any newcomers?
>
> Regards,
> Neil

I'm afraid that no matter how much advice we give, it's probably too late...

Neil... Sometimes you just have to leave it alone... can you do that?

Turn up the heat, watch the thermometer to see it get to 84d and just walk
away from it... leave it alone, nothing else..

What dies, dies... Tear the tank down, clean it, and put it away and start
again after you've read some more books on "how to set up a tank" or "Proper
care and maintenance" etc... You upset the process to the extent that this
is why people came up with fishless cycling, because what you are doing is
almost inhumane to the fish... pple here have tried to get some basic
concepts to you, but yet again, here you are, begging for help, all because
you wouldn't just leave well enough alone....

Good luck neil, maybe you'll pull thru this, maybe not..

--

RedForeman ©®

[NSP]

"D&M" > wrote in message >...
> Don 't want to sound too negative, but you're having worse luck than I had
> when I first started.
>
> When I first started in the aquaria world, and then ran into trouble, first
> thing I turned to was meds. I used every med there was on the shelf for
> every possible disease it appeared the fish had.
>
> The water quality had to be crap with all the meds etc., ended up, the final
> prognoses was that with all the treatments, I stressed out healthy fish into
> contracting ich, getting popeye, all kinds of stuff.
>
> I slowed it all down, stopped medicating the tank, did daily 30%
> waterchanges for a few days with carbon, treated the water with a bit of
> aquarium salt. I lost a couple more fish, but the other sick fish revived on
> their own.
>
> Recently, I got some ich in my 90g with a new arrival, just elevated the
> temps to 84f, treated with salt, and it went away.
>
> The moral of my long winded blurb is sometimes a person can overtreat for
> problems, only making things worse. All these meds you're dumping into the
> tank, the fish absorb, eventually weakening them, making them more
> susceptable to other diseases and parasites.
>
> My only advice would be to lay off them for a while, clean your water up,
> give them a "bit" of salt. But you may lose a fish or two in the process of
> cleaning up, if they're to weak to hang on.
>
> Once your tank is cleaned up, fully cycled, you'll be fine. If you get new
> fish, quaranteen them, make sure they don't have ich. If ich does get in the
> tank, if the tank is clean and cycled, other fish are healthy, don't panic,
> the fish can fight it off without meds. Even the infected ich fish will
> recover from the ich without meds. Method seems to work with most aquaria
> problems.
>
> Cheers from a fellow beginner. ;)
>
>
> "NSP" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > As my title states, I'm out of ideas.
> >
> > What started out as ich, turned into fin rot, what turned into fin rot
> > has turned into eye cloud, what turned into eye cloud is probably
> > going to end up in the toilet.
> >
> > I have been trying to treat my tank with Quick Cure for about a week
> > now with little to no success.
> >
> > In fact, the ich is getting worse rather than better!
> >
> > When my betta got fin and tail rot in addition to ich, I added Furan-2
> > and am on the last dose.
> >
> > Then my Ammonia started climbing in the tank.
> >
> > So, beginning 3 days ago, I've been adding Ammolock-2 to detoxify the
> > ammonia.
> >
> > So, I have an 85 degree tank with the following contents:
> >
> > 2 Mollys (one has eye cloud, the other has some ich spots on his tail)
> > 2 Bolivian Rams (one has an ich spot on his fin - this is a new case
> > just today)
> > 1 Pleco (healthy)
> > 1 Betta (the fin rot may be cured and he is more active, but he is
> > covered in ich).
> >
> > As the Furan-2 is on its last dose, I will put the carbon back into
> > the tank to get this crap filtered out of the water later tonight.
> >
> > This is very upsetting because the tank started out as cycled.
> >
> > Tank Temp 85 degrees F
> > Ammonia 1.2mg/l
> > Nitrite Undetectable
> >
> > Should I bother doing anything about the eye cloud? I'm really getting
> > tired of putting these chemicals into the water. I'm not sure if they
> > are making things better or worse.
> >
> > I don't have any salt in the water at this time. Given the fish I
> > have, I'm not sure if the salt would really do anything, or just give
> > me the feeling of doing something for the tank.
> >
> > Given the above, would I be correct to assume that no matter what I
> > do, the tank will always have an underlying disease that will attack
> > any newcomers?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Neil

Your advice makes a lot of sense to me.

I did a 50% waterchange today and the Ammonia is down to 0.6mg/litre.
The ammolock should handle that without problems.

The betta is already looking better and the fish are all active.

The Molly could be doing better with her eyes, though I think I see an
improvement - and she is still eating.

The remaining issue for me is salt.

I've never put salt in a tank as in my mind freshwater means salt
free.

Given the following contents in my tank, what salt level would be safe
and how do I apply it?

2 Bolivian Rams
1 Betta
2 Mollies
1 Pleco
2 Guppies

Regards,
Neil

[RedForeman ©®]

> The remaining issue for me is salt.
>
> I've never put salt in a tank as in my mind freshwater means salt
> free.

then your mind would be wrong... Salt is a tonic of sorts, helps in healing

> Given the following contents in my tank, what salt level would be safe
> and how do I apply it?

Read the directions on the side of the box, and go half... Mollies love
salt, and nothing you have will be bothered by it... you just add it to your
water during a water change, stir up the mix, let it settle and pour....

> 2 Bolivian Rams
> 1 Betta
> 2 Mollies
> 1 Pleco
> 2 Guppies
>
> Regards,
> Neil

--

RedForeman ©®

[NSP]

> What dies, dies... Tear the tank down, clean it, and put it away and start
> again after you've read some more books on "how to set up a tank" or "Proper
> care and maintenance" etc... You upset the process to the extent that this
> is why people came up with fishless cycling, because what you are doing is
> almost inhumane to the fish... pple here have tried to get some basic
> concepts to you, but yet again, here you are, begging for help, all because
> you wouldn't just leave well enough alone....
>
> Good luck neil, maybe you'll pull thru this, maybe not..


You know, it never ceases to amaze me on how people will judge and
belittle strangers in public places to feel better about themselves.

Good luck with growing up. Maybe you'll pull thhrough, maybe not...

Neil

[Eric Schreiber]

(NSP) wrote:

>You know, it never ceases to amaze me on how people will judge and
>belittle strangers in public places to feel better about themselves.

Perhaps, but I've read your posts, and I've read his, and his final
comments really do seem to be on the mark to me. You knew you wanted a
fish tank, but you didn't appear to know much beyond that- not even
what kind of fish you wanted.

To my reading, RedForeman was a bit blunt but he wasn't incorrect in
his opinion. By usenet standards, he was positively gentle. And I
don't think he was motivated by wanting to feel better about himself -
rather, his post was a result of his feeling bad for your fish.

--
www.ericschreiber.com

[Tedd Jacobs]

"Eric Schreiber" > wrote in message
...
> (NSP) wrote:
>
> >You know, it never ceases to amaze me on how people will judge and
> >belittle strangers in public places to feel better about themselves.
>
> Perhaps, but I've read your posts, and I've read his, and his final
> comments really do seem to be on the mark to me. You knew you wanted a
> fish tank, but you didn't appear to know much beyond that- not even
> what kind of fish you wanted.
>
> To my reading, RedForeman was a bit blunt but he wasn't incorrect in
> his opinion. By usenet standards, he was positively gentle. And I
> don't think he was motivated by wanting to feel better about himself -
> rather, his post was a result of his feeling bad for your fish.

i agree with eric, red gave you the best advice you could probably receive at
this point. this is the same advice i gave you when you first posted here,...
leave the chemicals alone and let the tank run it's course, fish are going to
die, but you're going to have to let the tank stabilize itself before you can
fix the other stuff.

as for red, i have never seen him belittle anyone who in all sincerity and
honesty came here looking for help. i have alot of respect for him and he's one
of the guys i'll listen to even when i dont agree,... because he's usually
right.

[coelacanth]

Although Red does sometimes have a problem with
his honey:vinegar ratio (IMO), I think he's definitely
got the right message here. I know it sucks to go
through the protracted death throes you've had
Neil, but I also think that lots of excellent advice
has been offered here and not followed. Given that,
I hope you do persist and try again. You might
see if you can get some Biospira when you start
up again. Otherwise, try fishless cycling as is
suggested. And either way, take it slow! I almost
never fully populate a tank in less than 6 months.

-coelacanth

"NSP" > wrote in message
m...
> > What dies, dies... Tear the tank down, clean it, and put it away and
start
> > again after you've read some more books on "how to set up a tank" or
"Proper
> > care and maintenance" etc... You upset the process to the extent that
this
> > is why people came up with fishless cycling, because what you are doing
is
> > almost inhumane to the fish... pple here have tried to get some basic
> > concepts to you, but yet again, here you are, begging for help, all
because
> > you wouldn't just leave well enough alone....
> >
> > Good luck neil, maybe you'll pull thru this, maybe not..
>
>
> You know, it never ceases to amaze me on how people will judge and
> belittle strangers in public places to feel better about themselves.
>
> Good luck with growing up. Maybe you'll pull thhrough, maybe not...
>
> Neil

[NSP]

"Tedd Jacobs" > wrote in message >...
> "Eric Schreiber" > wrote in message
> ...
> > (NSP) wrote:
> >
> > >You know, it never ceases to amaze me on how people will judge and
> > >belittle strangers in public places to feel better about themselves.
> >
> > Perhaps, but I've read your posts, and I've read his, and his final
> > comments really do seem to be on the mark to me. You knew you wanted a
> > fish tank, but you didn't appear to know much beyond that- not even
> > what kind of fish you wanted.
> >
> > To my reading, RedForeman was a bit blunt but he wasn't incorrect in
> > his opinion. By usenet standards, he was positively gentle. And I
> > don't think he was motivated by wanting to feel better about himself -
> > rather, his post was a result of his feeling bad for your fish.
>
> i agree with eric, red gave you the best advice you could probably receive at
> this point. this is the same advice i gave you when you first posted here,...
> leave the chemicals alone and let the tank run it's course, fish are going to
> die, but you're going to have to let the tank stabilize itself before you can
> fix the other stuff.
>
> as for red, i have never seen him belittle anyone who in all sincerity and
> honesty came here looking for help. i have alot of respect for him and he's one
> of the guys i'll listen to even when i dont agree,... because he's usually
> right.

I'm not losing sleep over it or anything - but it really wasn't
constructive.

To be fair, noone here knows how many water changes I've done and
hours spent on the newsgroups and websites reviewing materials...salt,
no salt, Malachite Green, Furan-2, Cycle, etc.

Yes, part of his comments were correct and informative, which is why I
was thrown off by the personal criticism attached to it. His isn't the
only opinion I read - if it isn't the one I followed, why should I be
personally attacked?

If I am being overly sensitive, I apologize. Noone likes to be kicked
when they are down - especially when one is making frantic efforts to
solve a problem with beloved pets. Had I been coldly putting fish in
harms way and not giving a care about their health or expressing
concern over what happens to them, sure. This isn't the case though.

The good news is the fish are all doing much better. As I posted
earlier, I gave the tank a big water change, put carbon back in the
filter, and everyone seems happier.

Most of the ich and tail rot is gone too which is a big plus, and the
fish are on the mend.

Yes, I also added some salt (I made a special trip to the LFS to get
some Aquarium Salt). I added 1 tbspn/5 gallons as indicated on the
box.

I think this was too much, though, because later at night, the male
guppy got swollen like a baloon and was passing a really thick stool
(he looked like he was going to explode!).

I immediately did a waterchange because I was concerned that the salt
content may have been too high. Sure enough, this morning the guppy
has returned to normal.

Live and learn.

Regards,
Neil

[luminos]

> RedForeman ©®
>
>
>
>
>
>

By the way redforeman, you cannot register or copyright a personal name or
handle. Your use of these symbols is arrogant.

[Eric Schreiber]

"luminos" > wrote:

>> RedForeman ©®

>By the way redforeman, you cannot register or copyright a personal
>name or handle. Your use of these symbols is arrogant.

Or, perhaps, his use of those symbols is just a bit of silliness.
You're familiar with the concept of a "joke", I trust.


--
www.ericschreiber.com

[NSP]

"luminos" > wrote in message >...
> > RedForeman ©®
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> By the way redforeman, you cannot register or copyright a personal name or
> handle. Your use of these symbols is arrogant.

Yes. I too felt uncomfortable with those symbols. I just didn't feel
comfortable bringing it up ;=)

Regards,
Neil

[Kay]

NSP wrote:

> "luminos" > wrote in message >...
>
>>>RedForeman ©®
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>By the way redforeman, you cannot register or copyright a personal name or
>>handle. Your use of these symbols is arrogant.
>
>
> Yes. I too felt uncomfortable with those symbols. I just didn't feel
> comfortable bringing it up ;=)
>
> Regards,
> Neil

Ohhhh geezz What next Red can't use his handle because its copyrighted
name of a character on a TV Comedy show? You might think it arrogent
but I think its clever. I didn't know there were usenet virtual hall
monitors? lol

Kay

[NSP]

Kay > wrote in message >...
> >>By the way redforeman, you cannot register or copyright a personal name or
> >>handle. Your use of these symbols is arrogant.
> >
> >
> > Yes. I too felt uncomfortable with those symbols. I just didn't feel
> > comfortable bringing it up ;=)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Neil
>
> Ohhhh geezz What next Red can't use his handle because its copyrighted
> name of a character on a TV Comedy show? You might think it arrogent
> but I think its clever. I didn't know there were usenet virtual hall
> monitors? lol
>
> Kay

You know...we were just joking (I think).

I took the message as a poke of fun at me because of my sensitivity,
and I furthered the joke along.

I'd better call a lawyer ;=P.

Neil

[Kay]

NSP wrote:
> Kay > wrote in message >...
>
>>>>By the way redforeman, you cannot register or copyright a personal name or
>>>>handle. Your use of these symbols is arrogant.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes. I too felt uncomfortable with those symbols. I just didn't feel
>>>comfortable bringing it up ;=)
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Neil
>>
>>Ohhhh geezz What next Red can't use his handle because its copyrighted
>>name of a character on a TV Comedy show? You might think it arrogent
>>but I think its clever. I didn't know there were usenet virtual hall
>>monitors? lol
>>
>>Kay
>
>
> You know...we were just joking (I think).
>
> I took the message as a poke of fun at me because of my sensitivity,
> and I furthered the joke along.
>
> I'd better call a lawyer ;=P.
A virtual one?) I hear they are the better deal:)

Kay

[EGMono]

In article >, Kay >
writes:

>I didn't know there were usenet virtual hall
>monitors? lol
>
>Kay

Silence! Where's your pass?

lol,
--
E.G.Mono