Help!! First tank won't complete cycle after 7 weeks

[BigBadGourami]

Hi I am relatively new to aquariums and am having trouble with my first
aquarium. It is a 55 gal with Regent powerfilter (no biowheel) and elite
802 pump with 2 air stones for better water circulation and oxygenation.
The tank is at 78 deg. I have 4 zebra danios, 3 pearl danios, and 2 dwarf
gouramis.
The first problem is that whenever I do a water change the pH shoots off
the scale. Sometimes in excess of 8.5. After about 4-5 days of flowing
through the peat in the filter it crashes down to the low to mid 7's. The
water changes I did were no more than 25%. The tap tests at 7.6. I tested
all the gravel and decorations with vinegar and no foaming or bubbling was
observed. I am at a loss to figure out what is causing this. I use regular
colored gravel and inert polyresin decorations in my tank all from petsmart.
I have some African root wood in as well to help lower the pH.
My other problem is the tank will not cycle. For the past 3 weeks
ammonia has been around .2ppm barely detectable. Nitrates however are at
arround 5ppm and not going down at all. I added 1tsp/5gal salt to keep the
fish from getting brown blood. So far they seem fine and I haven't lost
any. The nitrates were up to 80ppm a few days ago which was why I needed to
do a water change. I don't feed them a lot. Just once a day enough so that
each fish gets a couple flakes. I never notice any excess uneaten food. The
tank has been going for 7 weeks. Please help.

[Keith J]

Let me get this straight ....
Your tap water is pH 7.6 , your tank before a water change is about pH 7 ,
but just after a water hange it climbs to pH over 8 ?
Something sounds fishy . ( no pun intended )

Either you are using too much Co2 , your test kit is faulty , you made a
mistake measuring it, or something really strange is going on. If you mix
water from different sources, the resulting pH should be close to the
average of the two.

I think you should check the tap water again, as well as testing pH before
and after a water change. Something just doesn't add up ...

If you use a lot of Co2 for plants, the pH increases when you mix up the
water and some of the Co2 is released into the air. Otherwise, I'm at a loss
to explain it too.

One idea : what kind of salt are you using ? Marine salt mixes include
calcium and other minerals that can raise the pH.

As for the delay cycling, extremes of pH can slow the growth of beneficial
bacteria.

Wish I could be more help;
Keith J.

"BigBadGourami" > wrote in message
news:PQlGb.644252$Tr4.1652761@attbi_s03...
> Hi I am relatively new to aquariums and am having trouble with my
first
> aquarium. It is a 55 gal with Regent powerfilter (no biowheel) and elite
> 802 pump with 2 air stones for better water circulation and oxygenation.
> The tank is at 78 deg. I have 4 zebra danios, 3 pearl danios, and 2 dwarf
> gouramis.
> The first problem is that whenever I do a water change the pH shoots
off
> the scale. Sometimes in excess of 8.5. After about 4-5 days of flowing
> through the peat in the filter it crashes down to the low to mid 7's. The
> water changes I did were no more than 25%. The tap tests at 7.6. I
tested
> all the gravel and decorations with vinegar and no foaming or bubbling was
> observed. I am at a loss to figure out what is causing this. I use
regular
> colored gravel and inert polyresin decorations in my tank all from
petsmart.
> I have some African root wood in as well to help lower the pH.
> My other problem is the tank will not cycle. For the past 3 weeks
> ammonia has been around .2ppm barely detectable. Nitrates however are at
> arround 5ppm and not going down at all. I added 1tsp/5gal salt to keep
the
> fish from getting brown blood. So far they seem fine and I haven't lost
> any. The nitrates were up to 80ppm a few days ago which was why I needed
to
> do a water change. I don't feed them a lot. Just once a day enough so
that
> each fish gets a couple flakes. I never notice any excess uneaten food.
The
> tank has been going for 7 weeks. Please help.
>
>

[BigBadGourami]

I just use regular Doc Wellfish's aquarium salt It says for freshwater
fish. I have no idea how the water could get so alkaline unless something
in the tank is leaching something. However I have no idea what. One of the
neighboring communities I believe has phosphates in the water, but that
should lower the pH.
"Keith J" > wrote in message
...
> Let me get this straight ....
> Your tap water is pH 7.6 , your tank before a water change is about pH 7 ,
> but just after a water hange it climbs to pH over 8 ?
> Something sounds fishy . ( no pun intended )
>
> Either you are using too much Co2 , your test kit is faulty , you made a
> mistake measuring it, or something really strange is going on. If you mix
> water from different sources, the resulting pH should be close to the
> average of the two.
>
> I think you should check the tap water again, as well as testing pH before
> and after a water change. Something just doesn't add up ...
>
> If you use a lot of Co2 for plants, the pH increases when you mix up the
> water and some of the Co2 is released into the air. Otherwise, I'm at a
loss
> to explain it too.
>
> One idea : what kind of salt are you using ? Marine salt mixes include
> calcium and other minerals that can raise the pH.
>
> As for the delay cycling, extremes of pH can slow the growth of beneficial
> bacteria.
>
> Wish I could be more help;
> Keith J.
>
> "BigBadGourami" > wrote in message
> news:PQlGb.644252$Tr4.1652761@attbi_s03...
> > Hi I am relatively new to aquariums and am having trouble with my
> first
> > aquarium. It is a 55 gal with Regent powerfilter (no biowheel) and
elite
> > 802 pump with 2 air stones for better water circulation and oxygenation.
> > The tank is at 78 deg. I have 4 zebra danios, 3 pearl danios, and 2
dwarf
> > gouramis.
> > The first problem is that whenever I do a water change the pH shoots
> off
> > the scale. Sometimes in excess of 8.5. After about 4-5 days of flowing
> > through the peat in the filter it crashes down to the low to mid 7's.
The
> > water changes I did were no more than 25%. The tap tests at 7.6. I
> tested
> > all the gravel and decorations with vinegar and no foaming or bubbling
was
> > observed. I am at a loss to figure out what is causing this. I use
> regular
> > colored gravel and inert polyresin decorations in my tank all from
> petsmart.
> > I have some African root wood in as well to help lower the pH.
> > My other problem is the tank will not cycle. For the past 3 weeks
> > ammonia has been around .2ppm barely detectable. Nitrates however are
at
> > arround 5ppm and not going down at all. I added 1tsp/5gal salt to keep
> the
> > fish from getting brown blood. So far they seem fine and I haven't lost
> > any. The nitrates were up to 80ppm a few days ago which was why I
needed
> to
> > do a water change. I don't feed them a lot. Just once a day enough so
> that
> > each fish gets a couple flakes. I never notice any excess uneaten food.
> The
> > tank has been going for 7 weeks. Please help.
> >
> >
>
>

[MattO]

"Keith J" > wrote in message
...
> Let me get this straight ....
> Your tap water is pH 7.6 , your tank before a water change is about pH 7 ,
> but just after a water hange it climbs to pH over 8 ?
> Something sounds fishy . ( no pun intended )
>
> Either you are using too much Co2 , your test kit is faulty , you made a
> mistake measuring it, or something really strange is going on. If you mix
> water from different sources, the resulting pH should be close to the
> average of the two.
>
> I think you should check the tap water again, as well as testing pH before
> and after a water change. Something just doesn't add up ...
..
Wondering if time out of the tap is makes a difference in tapwater pH.
Is the highest reading *immediately* after water change or after some time?
Let some fresh tapwater stand in a bucket & compare bucket vs. tank pH?
I'd take a few readings per day till reading stopped changing in both.

~ MattO

[Cris]

Are you letting your tap water sit for a while before testing for pH?
When it comes straight from the tap it can be saturated with co2 and
read at a lower pH.

I wouldn't recommend keeping peat in your tank's filter. It's better
to peat filter your change water or use RO water. Your pH is jumping
up with every w/c because the peat is stripping the buffers in the
tank and you are adding them back with the tap water.

As for the ammonia, that could be coming from your tap water. Test
for ammonia before you do a w/c, and test your tap water after adding
declorinator. Many companies are adding chloramines (chlorine bound
with ammonia) to treat water. Most declorinators break that bond and
remove the chlorine and leave the ammonia. The bacteria in your tank
should then convert the ammonia.

It's normal to have nitrates. Nitrate is the end product of the
nitrification cycle. Water changes are the way to control the level.
80ppm is high. With only those few fish that you have, I would think
that either you are hardly ever doing water changes or you have a high
amount of ammonia coming from your tap water.

Salt won't help your fish with nitrates. It can help if you nitrite
is high. Nitrate isn't as poisonous as ammonia or nitrite, but it is
still unhealthy for the fish. Do you have live plants? They can help
by using a good bit of excess nitrates. Algae loves it, too. If you
don't do something about it, you will end up with lots of algae.

Cris


On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:31:59 GMT, "BigBadGourami"
> wrote:

> Hi I am relatively new to aquariums and am having trouble with my first
>aquarium. It is a 55 gal with Regent powerfilter (no biowheel) and elite
>802 pump with 2 air stones for better water circulation and oxygenation.
>The tank is at 78 deg. I have 4 zebra danios, 3 pearl danios, and 2 dwarf
>gouramis.
> The first problem is that whenever I do a water change the pH shoots off
>the scale. Sometimes in excess of 8.5. After about 4-5 days of flowing
>through the peat in the filter it crashes down to the low to mid 7's. The
>water changes I did were no more than 25%. The tap tests at 7.6. I tested
>all the gravel and decorations with vinegar and no foaming or bubbling was
>observed. I am at a loss to figure out what is causing this. I use regular
>colored gravel and inert polyresin decorations in my tank all from petsmart.
>I have some African root wood in as well to help lower the pH.
> My other problem is the tank will not cycle. For the past 3 weeks
>ammonia has been around .2ppm barely detectable. Nitrates however are at
>arround 5ppm and not going down at all. I added 1tsp/5gal salt to keep the
>fish from getting brown blood. So far they seem fine and I haven't lost
>any. The nitrates were up to 80ppm a few days ago which was why I needed to
>do a water change. I don't feed them a lot. Just once a day enough so that
>each fish gets a couple flakes. I never notice any excess uneaten food. The
>tank has been going for 7 weeks. Please help.
>

[BigBadGourami]

Actually my nitrites are high they measure arround 5ppm My nitrates were at
80 ppm before I did a water change. Sorry I mistyped the origninal. I
think from now on I will have to age my water with peat. when I do a water
change. The trouble is the water will be quite a bit cooler than the tank
water. and my bucket is only 5 gallons (only enough for 10% water change).
Anyways my water has no chloramines in them.


"Cris" > wrote in message
s.com...
> Are you letting your tap water sit for a while before testing for pH?
> When it comes straight from the tap it can be saturated with co2 and
> read at a lower pH.
>
> I wouldn't recommend keeping peat in your tank's filter. It's better
> to peat filter your change water or use RO water. Your pH is jumping
> up with every w/c because the peat is stripping the buffers in the
> tank and you are adding them back with the tap water.
>
> As for the ammonia, that could be coming from your tap water. Test
> for ammonia before you do a w/c, and test your tap water after adding
> declorinator. Many companies are adding chloramines (chlorine bound
> with ammonia) to treat water. Most declorinators break that bond and
> remove the chlorine and leave the ammonia. The bacteria in your tank
> should then convert the ammonia.
>
> It's normal to have nitrates. Nitrate is the end product of the
> nitrification cycle. Water changes are the way to control the level.
> 80ppm is high. With only those few fish that you have, I would think
> that either you are hardly ever doing water changes or you have a high
> amount of ammonia coming from your tap water.
>
> Salt won't help your fish with nitrates. It can help if you nitrite
> is high. Nitrate isn't as poisonous as ammonia or nitrite, but it is
> still unhealthy for the fish. Do you have live plants? They can help
> by using a good bit of excess nitrates. Algae loves it, too. If you
> don't do something about it, you will end up with lots of algae.
>
> Cris
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 19:31:59 GMT, "BigBadGourami"
> > wrote:
>
> > Hi I am relatively new to aquariums and am having trouble with my
first
> >aquarium. It is a 55 gal with Regent powerfilter (no biowheel) and elite
> >802 pump with 2 air stones for better water circulation and oxygenation.
> >The tank is at 78 deg. I have 4 zebra danios, 3 pearl danios, and 2
dwarf
> >gouramis.
> > The first problem is that whenever I do a water change the pH shoots
off
> >the scale. Sometimes in excess of 8.5. After about 4-5 days of flowing
> >through the peat in the filter it crashes down to the low to mid 7's.
The
> >water changes I did were no more than 25%. The tap tests at 7.6. I
tested
> >all the gravel and decorations with vinegar and no foaming or bubbling
was
> >observed. I am at a loss to figure out what is causing this. I use
regular
> >colored gravel and inert polyresin decorations in my tank all from
petsmart.
> >I have some African root wood in as well to help lower the pH.
> > My other problem is the tank will not cycle. For the past 3 weeks
> >ammonia has been around .2ppm barely detectable. Nitrates however are at
> >arround 5ppm and not going down at all. I added 1tsp/5gal salt to keep
the
> >fish from getting brown blood. So far they seem fine and I haven't lost
> >any. The nitrates were up to 80ppm a few days ago which was why I needed
to
> >do a water change. I don't feed them a lot. Just once a day enough so
that
> >each fish gets a couple flakes. I never notice any excess uneaten food.
The
> >tank has been going for 7 weeks. Please help.
> >
>