Fluval 404 -- 2 models?

[blank]

A simple question: Is the Fluval 404 the same as the Fluval 404 MSF?
Thanks

[Philip Ash]

"blank" > wrote in message
u...
> A simple question: Is the Fluval 404 the same as the Fluval 404 MSF?
> Thanks


AFAIK there has been three models of 404. The first had an automatic valve
on the hose to filter connector that stoped the water flow. Users found they
clog with plant matter far too easily and a second version was released.
This had a manual system to close the water flow, tha removed the
obstructions. And now i have seen in ads,a third version. I am unsure the
mechanical differences to the other two, but i can see the have a new design
for the hose management at the tank, and the canister lids handles are
different too.

The other difference between ver 1 and ver 2 was they switched to ribbed
hoses.

Hope this helps.

Phil.

[james mitchell]

Additional info:
The 1st model had problems with leaking and motor reliability. The updated
models have white impeller blades which extend straight outward.

I am not sure about a third version.

I have 2 of the second version and am very happy with them. They hold a ton
of media. There's a lot of discussion about water bypassing the media in
these filters. I have found this to be false. I can tell by where the
ditritus is on the foam prefilter that 95% or more of the water is going to
the bottom of the canister, then back up through all the media chambers.
Also, I use floss in the bottom chamber and it is well soiled when cleaning.
As far a canisters go, they are a very good value especially when bought
online.

HTH,
Jim


"Philip Ash" > wrote in message
...
>
> "blank" > wrote in message
> u...
> > A simple question: Is the Fluval 404 the same as the Fluval 404 MSF?
> > Thanks
>
>
> AFAIK there has been three models of 404. The first had an automatic valve
> on the hose to filter connector that stoped the water flow. Users found
they
> clog with plant matter far too easily and a second version was released.
> This had a manual system to close the water flow, tha removed the
> obstructions. And now i have seen in ads,a third version. I am unsure the
> mechanical differences to the other two, but i can see the have a new
design
> for the hose management at the tank, and the canister lids handles are
> different too.
>
> The other difference between ver 1 and ver 2 was they switched to ribbed
> hoses.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Phil.
>
>
>

[blank]

Does anyone know if the different versions have different product codes? I
notice quite a bit of price difference for online shopping in Australia, and
want to be sure of getting the latest model. Thanks

"james mitchell" > wrote in message
. com...
> Additional info:
> The 1st model had problems with leaking and motor reliability. The
updated
> models have white impeller blades which extend straight outward.
>
> I am not sure about a third version.
>
> I have 2 of the second version and am very happy with them. They hold a
ton
> of media. There's a lot of discussion about water bypassing the media in
> these filters. I have found this to be false. I can tell by where the
> ditritus is on the foam prefilter that 95% or more of the water is going
to
> the bottom of the canister, then back up through all the media chambers.
> Also, I use floss in the bottom chamber and it is well soiled when
cleaning.
> As far a canisters go, they are a very good value especially when bought
> online.
>
> HTH,
> Jim
>
>
> "Philip Ash" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "blank" > wrote in message
> > u...
> > > A simple question: Is the Fluval 404 the same as the Fluval 404 MSF?
> > > Thanks
> >
> >
> > AFAIK there has been three models of 404. The first had an automatic
valve
> > on the hose to filter connector that stoped the water flow. Users found
> they
> > clog with plant matter far too easily and a second version was released.
> > This had a manual system to close the water flow, tha removed the
> > obstructions. And now i have seen in ads,a third version. I am unsure
the
> > mechanical differences to the other two, but i can see the have a new
> design
> > for the hose management at the tank, and the canister lids handles are
> > different too.
> >
> > The other difference between ver 1 and ver 2 was they switched to ribbed
> > hoses.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Phil.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[NetMax]

"blank" > wrote in message
u...
> A simple question: Is the Fluval 404 the same as the Fluval 404 MSF?
> Thanks

Not exactly. The design of the handles has been changed (improved) and
the MSF is stamped on the motor-head and the canister. This makes it
more likely that people will line the front of the motor-head with the
front of the canister when assembling it. If you try to install the
motor-head backwards, the parts don't line up properly (there is an ac
outlet on one side), but if you really really force it, you can break the
handles. Fortunately, replacement handles are free and easy to change,
but you have to make a trip to your LFS, and they will know how you broke
them ;~) 'doh'.

NetMax

[EGMono]

In article >, "blank"
> writes:

>A simple question: Is the Fluval 404 the same as the Fluval 404 MSF?
>Thanks
>

The MSF stands for Multiple Stage Filter. Sooo... if the Fluval 404 you speak
of is a multi stage, multiple medium filter, then yes. ;)
Does that clear it up?
--
E.G.Mono

[blank]

OK, I'm getting closer to understanding the difference. Just one further
clarification required.

Is this statement true? "There has only ever been one version of the Fluval
404 MSF; it is the current model."

(I ask because that's one email reply I received from an aquarium shop, but
I get the impression there has been one upgrade of the 404 MSF.) Thanks for
your tolerance everyone--there is such a significant price difference (AU$
250 to AU$ 335) I'm concerned that the cheapy is an older model.)

[Harry Muscle]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "blank" > wrote in message
> u...
> > A simple question: Is the Fluval 404 the same as the Fluval 404 MSF?
> > Thanks
>
> Not exactly. The design of the handles has been changed (improved) and
> the MSF is stamped on the motor-head and the canister. This makes it
> more likely that people will line the front of the motor-head with the
> front of the canister when assembling it. If you try to install the
> motor-head backwards, the parts don't line up properly (there is an ac
> outlet on one side), but if you really really force it, you can break the
> handles. Fortunately, replacement handles are free and easy to change,
> but you have to make a trip to your LFS, and they will know how you broke
> them ;~) 'doh'.
>
> NetMax
>
>

Is the MSF stamped on only the latest version, or was it stamped on also the
second version?

Thanks,
Harry

[NetMax]

"blank" > wrote in message
u...
> OK, I'm getting closer to understanding the difference. Just one
further
> clarification required.
>
> Is this statement true? "There has only ever been one version of the
Fluval
> 404 MSF; it is the current model."
>
> (I ask because that's one email reply I received from an aquarium shop,
but
> I get the impression there has been one upgrade of the 404 MSF.)
Thanks for
> your tolerance everyone--there is such a significant price difference
(AU$
> 250 to AU$ 335) I'm concerned that the cheapy is an older model.)

AFAIK, there has only been one version of the Fluval canister which is
stamped MSF. This is the latest in what has been increasingly smaller
design changes made in the product's development. I think they have used
the designation MSF before, but that has only been in promotional
material and not stamped into the plastic as it is now.

There really isn't a significant difference between the latest MSF and
the prior model. The MSF is packaged with a skimmer (of minimal use to a
freshwater tank), the handle design has changed (making it a bit easier
to compress the motor-head), and the MSF lettering is stamped to make
assembly more idiot-proof. If you are not the type to assembly parts
backwards ;~), then just the new handle design might not be worth $AU 85
difference.

Many people assemble canisters when they are full of water. This can
work well, but water does not compress, so the last cm's of travel to
button everything up takes a bit of pressure (compressing whatever air
bubbles got trapped). Sometimes I open the hose valves when closing the
canister, but this takes a bit of coordination or the hoses dump water on
you ;~) Other times I leave an inch of air to easily compress. Other
times I leave the canister empty of water, and just suck on the outlet to
start a siphon. Many have a priming capability, but I've never found
that 100% effective unless there was only a bit of air or a bit of water
(a half filled canister seems to be my worst case scenario). Sometimes I
fill the canister through the outlet when filling the tank with water
from a garden hose (this works too ;~). Everyone has their 'techniques'
which work for better or worse on different canister designs.
Fortunately, canisters don't need servicing very often ;~). It's always
a case of ymmv.

NetMax

[blank]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..

>
> AFAIK, there has only been one version of the Fluval canister which is
> stamped MSF. This is the latest in what has been increasingly smaller
> design changes made in the product's development. I think they have used
> the designation MSF before, but that has only been in promotional
> material and not stamped into the plastic as it is now.
>
> There really isn't a significant difference between the latest MSF and
> the prior model. The MSF is packaged with a skimmer (of minimal use to a
> freshwater tank), the handle design has changed (making it a bit easier
> to compress the motor-head), and the MSF lettering is stamped to make
> assembly more idiot-proof. If you are not the type to assembly parts
> backwards ;~), then just the new handle design might not be worth $AU 85
> difference.
>
OK, got it. Many thanks for your valued assistance.

[Bob Alston]

I have the non-MSF stamped version and I wish I had the newest with the
improved latches. The design I have is too easy to accidentally open when
lifting it for service. (know how I know......)

--
Bob Alston

bobalston9 AT aol DOT com
"blank" > wrote in message
u...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
> >
> > AFAIK, there has only been one version of the Fluval canister which is
> > stamped MSF. This is the latest in what has been increasingly smaller
> > design changes made in the product's development. I think they have
used
> > the designation MSF before, but that has only been in promotional
> > material and not stamped into the plastic as it is now.
> >
> > There really isn't a significant difference between the latest MSF and
> > the prior model. The MSF is packaged with a skimmer (of minimal use to
a
> > freshwater tank), the handle design has changed (making it a bit easier
> > to compress the motor-head), and the MSF lettering is stamped to make
> > assembly more idiot-proof. If you are not the type to assembly parts
> > backwards ;~), then just the new handle design might not be worth $AU 85
> > difference.
> >
> OK, got it. Many thanks for your valued assistance.
>
>

[Harry Muscle]

"Bob Alston" > wrote in message
news:6rlIb.42860$BQ5.14251@fed1read03...
> I have the non-MSF stamped version and I wish I had the newest with the
> improved latches. The design I have is too easy to accidentally open when
> lifting it for service. (know how I know......)
>
> --
> Bob Alston

How long ago did you buy yours?

Thanks,
Harry




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[NetMax]

"Harry Muscle" > wrote in message
...
> "Bob Alston" > wrote in message
> news:6rlIb.42860$BQ5.14251@fed1read03...
> > I have the non-MSF stamped version and I wish I had the newest with
the
> > improved latches. The design I have is too easy to accidentally open
when
> > lifting it for service. (know how I know......)
> >
> > --
> > Bob Alston
>
> How long ago did you buy yours?
>
> Thanks,
> Harry

FWIW, our store started receiving MSF stamped filters in November 2003.

NetMax

[John]

I just had mine delivered yesterday... and wouldn't you know it, it is
NOT the MSF version... someone is advertising the hell out of these
things on ebaby as NEW IN BOX, and technically they are... they are
just out dated filters.

Royal pain. The guy is still advertising them so I guess he bought a
truckload of them because they were a 'clearance' item from whatever
distributor had them...

He did NOT lie about it... just mis-led me to believe I was actually
getting the 'current' product.

Filter was still sealed in the box as advertised and works fine, but
it does not have the MSF stamped on it anywhere and of course, has the
old handle style which means that I have already learned to NOT pick
the darned thing up by it's handles! 2+ gallons of water on the floor
before I stopped the syphon action and picked the container back up...

Just beware when trying to find these things online... even from a
'reputable' dealer, you can still get burned.


On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:44:28 -0500, "Harry Muscle"
> wrote:

>"Bob Alston" > wrote in message
>news:6rlIb.42860$BQ5.14251@fed1read03...
>> I have the non-MSF stamped version and I wish I had the newest with the
>> improved latches. The design I have is too easy to accidentally open when
>> lifting it for service. (know how I know......)
>>
>> --
>> Bob Alston
>
>How long ago did you buy yours?
>
>Thanks,
>Harry
>
>
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Harry Muscle]

Hmm, anybody know if BigAl's would be carrying the new model already? I was
gonna place an order for a 304 tomorrow. I guess I could just call them,
but I doubt they'll know what it looks like without opening the box, which I
don't think they'll do for a caller. Anyway, if anyone's ordered a new MSF
stamped 304 from BigAl's, I'd love to know about it.

Thanks,
Harry

"John" > wrote in message
...
> I just had mine delivered yesterday... and wouldn't you know it, it is
> NOT the MSF version... someone is advertising the hell out of these
> things on ebaby as NEW IN BOX, and technically they are... they are
> just out dated filters.
>
> Royal pain. The guy is still advertising them so I guess he bought a
> truckload of them because they were a 'clearance' item from whatever
> distributor had them...
>
> He did NOT lie about it... just mis-led me to believe I was actually
> getting the 'current' product.
>
> Filter was still sealed in the box as advertised and works fine, but
> it does not have the MSF stamped on it anywhere and of course, has the
> old handle style which means that I have already learned to NOT pick
> the darned thing up by it's handles! 2+ gallons of water on the floor
> before I stopped the syphon action and picked the container back up...
>
> Just beware when trying to find these things online... even from a
> 'reputable' dealer, you can still get burned.
>
>
> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:44:28 -0500, "Harry Muscle"
> > wrote:
>
> >"Bob Alston" > wrote in message
> >news:6rlIb.42860$BQ5.14251@fed1read03...
> >> I have the non-MSF stamped version and I wish I had the newest with the
> >> improved latches. The design I have is too easy to accidentally open
when
> >> lifting it for service. (know how I know......)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bob Alston
> >
> >How long ago did you buy yours?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Harry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> >http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> >-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>