Mirror in the fishtank

[Big Dummy]

I have been having problems with a hyper-territorial green terror in my 75
gal tank, he killed a gymnogeophageous meridonalis, a jaguar guapote, two
plecostomus and a synuspillum, chewed up two severums and a red devil so
badly they had to be removed, beaten up with no tails.

Thing is, I like this green terror a lot. My girlfriend likes it even more,
mistakenly thinking it's a female, she named it Brigid for the Celtic
Goddess of war. So I want to keep it, therefore the obvious answer to trade
him in or flush him isn't an option, at least until everything else fails..
I want to exhaust every other option first.

So I've been trying various methods to curb his aggression. I put in
several silver dollars as dithers, he chased them for a while but when he
realised he couldn't catch them just gave up and now ignores them. I put in
a couple of mbuna (a cynotilapia afra and 2 demosoni) and he chases them
occasionally but still picks on the other weaker fish more (usually
targeting one at a time). I put in a pair of convicts hoping they would set
up a territory and be able to defend it from him, which could absorb alot of
aggression, but he's been able to prevent them from settling in anywhere and
persecutes the male mercilessly. I put a large Oscar in the tank hoping he
would be able to keep the peace (this has worked before), but even though it
was twice his size, the Green Terror quickly intimidated him and now the
Oscar is sulking on the bottom, refusing to eat.

Finally I tried an old trick and put a little mirror from my neighbors
cockatiel cage in the tank. This has finally seemed to work to some extent.
The Green Terror spends hours squaring off with the mirror, posturing in
front of it, wagging his tail, swiming around and a round it, and just
staring at it sullenly from behind a rock (the mbuna and the female convicts
also freak out on it). He finally saw a face he was scared of.

My question now is, will the mirror leach any metals or glue into the tank
which could hurt the fish? Can I leave it in there for a few hours a day or
not? It doesn't seem to work as well when taped to the outside of the tank
but I could do that as second tier alternative.

Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.

Jr

[Koi-Lo]

"Big Dummy" > wrote in message
. net...
>
SNIP!

> Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.
==========================
I'm trying to picture the stress, fear and suffering going on in this tank.
For the sake of compassion can't you at least remove the other fish to
another tank since they cannot escape on their own as they would in the
wild? Or remove the green terror to a tank of it's own? How can you watch
such suffering and torture of this fish's victims? :-(
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[fish lover]

Would you put a wolf in the chicken house and hope he would reform and
ignore the chickens? I guess is no.

Same thing as fish. If he reguard something as food or competor, he
will go after it, no matter what you do. It takes millions of years to
form such things. You can not change it in few days/weeks/months.


>I have been having problems with a hyper-territorial green terror in my 75
>gal tank, he killed a gymnogeophageous meridonalis, a jaguar guapote, two
>plecostomus and a synuspillum, chewed up two severums and a red devil so
>badly they had to be removed, beaten up with no tails.
>
>Thing is, I like this green terror a lot. My girlfriend likes it even more,
>mistakenly thinking it's a female, she named it Brigid for the Celtic
>Goddess of war. So I want to keep it, therefore the obvious answer to trade
>him in or flush him isn't an option, at least until everything else fails..
>I want to exhaust every other option first.
>
>So I've been trying various methods to curb his aggression. I put in
>several silver dollars as dithers, he chased them for a while but when he
>realised he couldn't catch them just gave up and now ignores them. I put in
>a couple of mbuna (a cynotilapia afra and 2 demosoni) and he chases them
>occasionally but still picks on the other weaker fish more (usually
>targeting one at a time). I put in a pair of convicts hoping they would set
>up a territory and be able to defend it from him, which could absorb alot of
>aggression, but he's been able to prevent them from settling in anywhere and
>persecutes the male mercilessly. I put a large Oscar in the tank hoping he
>would be able to keep the peace (this has worked before), but even though it
>was twice his size, the Green Terror quickly intimidated him and now the
>Oscar is sulking on the bottom, refusing to eat.
>
>Finally I tried an old trick and put a little mirror from my neighbors
>cockatiel cage in the tank. This has finally seemed to work to some extent.
>The Green Terror spends hours squaring off with the mirror, posturing in
>front of it, wagging his tail, swiming around and a round it, and just
>staring at it sullenly from behind a rock (the mbuna and the female convicts
>also freak out on it). He finally saw a face he was scared of.
>
>My question now is, will the mirror leach any metals or glue into the tank
>which could hurt the fish? Can I leave it in there for a few hours a day or
>not? It doesn't seem to work as well when taped to the outside of the tank
>but I could do that as second tier alternative.
>
>Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.
>
>Jr
>

[Big Dummy]

RBP's?


"Sean" > wrote in message
...
> >>So I've been trying various methods to curb his aggression. I put in
> >>several silver dollars as dithers, he chased them for a while but when
he
> >>realised he couldn't catch them just gave up and now ignores them.
>
> Heh, remove the silver dollars and put in 7-8 young RBPs. He'll learn
fear
> soon enough ;)
>
>
>
> Sean
>
>

[Big Dummy]

"Koi-Lo" >
> "Big Dummy" > wrote
> SNIP!
>
> > Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.
> ==========================
> I'm trying to picture the stress, fear and suffering going on in this
tank.
> For the sake of compassion can't you at least remove the other fish to
> another tank since they cannot escape on their own as they would in the
> wild? Or remove the green terror to a tank of it's own? How can you
watch
> such suffering and torture of this fish's victims? :-(

Give me a break! As opposed to the constant bliss and peace of nature I
suppose?

I gather from your nom-de plume you are more familiar with Koi and other
pond fish and perhaps aren't familiar with keeping fish such as cichlids,
but there is always at the least the potential of serious aggression going
on in Cichlid tanks (most Cichlid species anyway). Same with a lot of other
popular aquarium species: scat, puffers, clown knife, many catfish, etc.
etc. It's a fact of life.

I've been keeping cichlids for 20 years. In that time 95% of the time my
tanks have been peaceful, hardly "terrorized" any more than fish are
terrorized by being kept in a tank to begin with. With potentially
territorial species such as I'm dealing with now finding a good initial
balance is difficult, in this case I seem to have a particularly aggressive
specimen. Once you have the balance established there is usually no more
serious aggression unless something else changes it (like one of the fish
grows much faster than the others or a mated pair forms for example)

For that matter I've kept Green Terrors in Cichlid community tanks before
with no problems. One problem is the fish sold under this trade name
include at least two major regional subspecies or morphs and probably
several individual species. I'm guessing the one we have is an unusually
territorial example, or it could just be his individual personality.

Anyway, I'd appreciate helpful responses instead of hand-wringing or
sanctimony. For what it's worth, the fish that were killed were done in
when I was out of town, the injured have been removed, the rest are holding
their own currently and if they start to show signs of injury they will be
removed as well.



> --
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>
>

[Big Dummy]

"fish lover" > wrote in message
> Would you put a wolf in the chicken house and hope he would reform and
> ignore the chickens? I guess is no.
>
> Same thing as fish. If he reguard something as food or competor, he
> will go after it, no matter what you do. It takes millions of years to
> form such things. You can not change it in few days/weeks/months.
>
>
> >I have been having problems with a hyper-territorial green terror in my
75
>

No frankly to compare your analogy, it's a wolf in the wolf house, with a
couple of cape buffalo, a leopard and an elephant. Convicts, Red Devils,
Mbuna, even Oscars are all territorial. And yet while it might be news to
you it is possible to establish peaceful community tanks with any of those
species, given enough space and correct management.

DB

[Sean]

"Big Dummy" > wrote in message
om...
> RBP's?


Big teeth...nasty rep...hunt in packs...red on the belly...



Sean

[Nikki]

red belly perona
nikku




"Big Dummy" > wrote in message
om...
> RBP's?
>
>
> "Sean" > wrote in message
> ...
>> >>So I've been trying various methods to curb his aggression. I put in
>> >>several silver dollars as dithers, he chased them for a while but when
> he
>> >>realised he couldn't catch them just gave up and now ignores them.
>>
>> Heh, remove the silver dollars and put in 7-8 young RBPs. He'll learn
> fear
>> soon enough ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>
>

[Big Dummy]

Capiche

Yeah, in a pack they can be dangerous, their teeth seem to be able to take
chunks out of other fish. I've had them get bullied by cichlids too though
frankly, keep in mind they share the same habitat with many cichlid species,
some of which (Cichla Oceleris?) prey on rbp, as well as vice versa

DB

"Nikki" > wrote in message
...
> red belly perona
> nikku
>
>
>
>
> "Big Dummy" > wrote in message
> om...
> > RBP's?
> >
> >
> > "Sean" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> >>So I've been trying various methods to curb his aggression. I put in
> >> >>several silver dollars as dithers, he chased them for a while but
when
> > he
> >> >>realised he couldn't catch them just gave up and now ignores them.
> >>
> >> Heh, remove the silver dollars and put in 7-8 young RBPs. He'll learn
> > fear
> >> soon enough ;)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sean
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[fish lover]

>"Koi-Lo" >
>> "Big Dummy" > wrote
>> SNIP!
>>
>> > Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.
>> ==========================
>> I'm trying to picture the stress, fear and suffering going on in this
>tank.
>> For the sake of compassion can't you at least remove the other fish to
>> another tank since they cannot escape on their own as they would in the
>> wild? Or remove the green terror to a tank of it's own? How can you
>watch
>> such suffering and torture of this fish's victims? :-(
>
>Give me a break! As opposed to the constant bliss and peace of nature I
>suppose?
>
>I gather from your nom-de plume you are more familiar with Koi and other
>pond fish and perhaps aren't familiar with keeping fish such as cichlids,
>but there is always at the least the potential of serious aggression going
>on in Cichlid tanks (most Cichlid species anyway). Same with a lot of other
>popular aquarium species: scat, puffers, clown knife, many catfish, etc.
>etc. It's a fact of life.
>
>I've been keeping cichlids for 20 years. In that time 95% of the time my
>tanks have been peaceful, hardly "terrorized" any more than fish are
>terrorized by being kept in a tank to begin with. With potentially
>territorial species such as I'm dealing with now finding a good initial
>balance is difficult, in this case I seem to have a particularly aggressive
>specimen. Once you have the balance established there is usually no more
>serious aggression unless something else changes it (like one of the fish
>grows much faster than the others or a mated pair forms for example)
>
>For that matter I've kept Green Terrors in Cichlid community tanks before
>with no problems. One problem is the fish sold under this trade name
>include at least two major regional subspecies or morphs and probably
>several individual species. I'm guessing the one we have is an unusually
>territorial example, or it could just be his individual personality.
>
>Anyway, I'd appreciate helpful responses instead of hand-wringing or
>sanctimony. For what it's worth, the fish that were killed were done in
>when I was out of town, the injured have been removed, the rest are holding
>their own currently and if they start to show signs of injury they will be
>removed as well.
>
>
>
>> --
>>
>> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
>> Aquariums since 1952
>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Well, I used to keep cichlids tanks too and I knew for sure to take
the fish out when they were in trouble. I'm not talking about chasing
around, I'm talking about when they intend to kill. I'm having the
Discus now, they are still part of cichlids family last time I
checked.

The problem is, in the wild, they can get away from the aggresive
fish. In the fish tank, they can not. They will be chased 24 hours a
day till death. That's the difference. The best way is to do some
research to see what can be the tankmates BEFORE just put them in for
a try. In that way, you can also know if the water is suitable for the
tankmates too. There are lots of web sites that will give you the
information about which fish are good tankmates for a give type. I'm
sure you can find them easily.

As for the mirror, I would not put it in the tank because most of the
mirror I know use some kind of heavy metals at the back. It may leach
out to your water. That's just IMO.

[Sean]

"Big Dummy" > wrote in message
om...
> Capiche
>
> Yeah, in a pack they can be dangerous, their teeth seem to be able to take
> chunks out of other fish. I've had them get bullied by cichlids too
> though
> frankly, keep in mind they share the same habitat with many cichlid
> species,
> some of which (Cichla Oceleris?) prey on rbp, as well as vice versa
>
> DB


Heh, yah that environment is a mostly "the wrong place at the wrong time"
kinda thing or vice versa. Kind of a matter of who is the biggest at the
meeting of nasties...


Sean

[Peter Mason]

Consider yourself lucky, BD. I've had several green terrors and only one
had the expected attitude. The rest were/are wimps. Even the sparky
one's kids turned out to be luke-warm. A fish like that deserves to be
treasured in his own tank, perhaps with a mate.

[Gill Passman]

Big Dummy wrote:
> I have been having problems with a hyper-territorial green terror in my 75
> gal tank, he killed a gymnogeophageous meridonalis, a jaguar guapote, two
> plecostomus and a synuspillum, chewed up two severums and a red devil so
> badly they had to be removed, beaten up with no tails.
>
> Thing is, I like this green terror a lot. My girlfriend likes it even more,
> mistakenly thinking it's a female, she named it Brigid for the Celtic
> Goddess of war. So I want to keep it, therefore the obvious answer to trade
> him in or flush him isn't an option, at least until everything else fails..
> I want to exhaust every other option first.
>
> So I've been trying various methods to curb his aggression. I put in
> several silver dollars as dithers, he chased them for a while but when he
> realised he couldn't catch them just gave up and now ignores them. I put in
> a couple of mbuna (a cynotilapia afra and 2 demosoni) and he chases them
> occasionally but still picks on the other weaker fish more (usually
> targeting one at a time). I put in a pair of convicts hoping they would set
> up a territory and be able to defend it from him, which could absorb alot of
> aggression, but he's been able to prevent them from settling in anywhere and
> persecutes the male mercilessly. I put a large Oscar in the tank hoping he
> would be able to keep the peace (this has worked before), but even though it
> was twice his size, the Green Terror quickly intimidated him and now the
> Oscar is sulking on the bottom, refusing to eat.
>
> Finally I tried an old trick and put a little mirror from my neighbors
> cockatiel cage in the tank. This has finally seemed to work to some extent.
> The Green Terror spends hours squaring off with the mirror, posturing in
> front of it, wagging his tail, swiming around and a round it, and just
> staring at it sullenly from behind a rock (the mbuna and the female convicts
> also freak out on it). He finally saw a face he was scared of.
>
> My question now is, will the mirror leach any metals or glue into the tank
> which could hurt the fish? Can I leave it in there for a few hours a day or
> not? It doesn't seem to work as well when taped to the outside of the tank
> but I could do that as second tier alternative.
>
> Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.
>
> Jr
>
>
OK - my cichlid experience is with Mbunas....quite a mean type of
fish...when I read "mildly aggressive" I didn't realise it had context
but it is all a learning experience....anyway the tank after 12 months
has reached a balance...there have been battles and murders but I'm
taking on board that this is a hazzard with keeping these type of fish
(I've also rescued and returned some of the persecuted to the LFS - but
not all)...we now call the current Alpha fish "Batter" - firstly because
he will batter any other fish in the tank given half a chance and
secondly because my mum reckons he is almost of a size to make a decent
meal deep fried with batter - lol

My feeling is that you are fighting a losing battle...keep the fish in
question by all means but don't mix him with other cichlids who will
also battle for their place in the pecking order - it will end in
tears...find suitable tank mates (if there are any - no experience of
green terrors) or house him on his own or with a suitable mate...

By putting in a mirror you will be causing stress to the fish in
question...he is now involved in a battle he cannot win...imagine
spending your entire life face to face with whoever you perceive to be
the enemy. It might detract attention from the others but is not a long
term solution especially for the Green terror...decide which fish is
important to you...if it is the others rehouse or rehome the green
terror...if it is him rehouse or rehome the others...

You could try messing with the tank decor and moving caves, add caves,
add plants...this would be more effective long term than forcing the
fish to believe there is another alpha in the tank...but in reality it
just won't work IMO...if the Green Terror loses his alpha status another
fish will step in and then it will be him that you are worrying about...

So to sum up...rehouse him or send him back to the LFS...anything else
from my experience with cichlids will end in tears....

Gill

[Richard Sexton]

Have you tried stuffing their faces with earthworms then rearranging
their rocks/decorations? I've only keps big-ass cichlids for a few months last
year when I was keeping some here for a friend. Managanense, green terror and
some africans (not my choice to put them together). The T. buttekfori (sp?)
knocked the crap out of alll of them even thouhg they were tiny b comparison.

The managuanense was real pussycat.

If anybody knows of any large male jag cichlids near Troonto ontario please
drop a line to evans at vrx.net. he has three large females in a 150 gal tank
that keep spawning and cannot find a male.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[URBANFLAGE]

"Big Dummy" > wrote in message
. net...
> I have been having problems with a hyper-territorial green terror in my 75
> gal tank, he killed a gymnogeophageous meridonalis, a jaguar guapote, two
> plecostomus and a synuspillum, chewed up two severums and a red devil so
> badly they had to be removed, beaten up with no tails.
>
> Thing is, I like this green terror a lot. My girlfriend likes it even
more,
> mistakenly thinking it's a female, she named it Brigid for the Celtic
> Goddess of war. So I want to keep it, therefore the obvious answer to
trade
> him in or flush him isn't an option, at least until everything else
fails..
> I want to exhaust every other option first.
>
> So I've been trying various methods to curb his aggression. I put in
> several silver dollars as dithers, he chased them for a while but when he
> realised he couldn't catch them just gave up and now ignores them. I put
in
> a couple of mbuna (a cynotilapia afra and 2 demosoni) and he chases them
> occasionally but still picks on the other weaker fish more (usually
> targeting one at a time). I put in a pair of convicts hoping they would
set
> up a territory and be able to defend it from him, which could absorb alot
of
> aggression, but he's been able to prevent them from settling in anywhere
and
> persecutes the male mercilessly. I put a large Oscar in the tank hoping
he
> would be able to keep the peace (this has worked before), but even though
it
> was twice his size, the Green Terror quickly intimidated him and now the
> Oscar is sulking on the bottom, refusing to eat.
>
> Finally I tried an old trick and put a little mirror from my neighbors
> cockatiel cage in the tank. This has finally seemed to work to some
extent.
> The Green Terror spends hours squaring off with the mirror, posturing in
> front of it, wagging his tail, swiming around and a round it, and just
> staring at it sullenly from behind a rock (the mbuna and the female
convicts
> also freak out on it). He finally saw a face he was scared of.
>
> My question now is, will the mirror leach any metals or glue into the tank
> which could hurt the fish? Can I leave it in there for a few hours a day
or
> not? It doesn't seem to work as well when taped to the outside of the
tank
> but I could do that as second tier alternative.
>
> Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.
>
> Jr
>


something I've done is set up a "virtual" tank divider out of many plastic
plants. After a water change put his favorite cave on one side of the tank
and build a thick "wall" out of plastic plants across the center (1/3) of
the tank - pile up rocks along the base of the plants so he can't see over
to the other 2/3s of the tank. this method has allowed me to spawn several
types of aggressive fish in the same tank (135 gal) set it up into thirds.

Brad

[Big Dummy]

"URBANFLAGE" > wrote in message news:4rONf.804$
>
> something I've done is set up a "virtual" tank divider out of many plastic
> plants. After a water change put his favorite cave on one side of the tank
> and build a thick "wall" out of plastic plants across the center (1/3) of
> the tank - pile up rocks along the base of the plants so he can't see over
> to the other 2/3s of the tank. this method has allowed me to spawn several
> types of aggressive fish in the same tank (135 gal) set it up into thirds.
>
> Brad

Interesting idea Brad, thanks!

[NetMax]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Big Dummy wrote:
>> I have been having problems with a hyper-territorial green terror in
>> my 75
>> gal tank, he killed a gymnogeophageous meridonalis, a jaguar guapote,
>> two
>> plecostomus and a synuspillum, chewed up two severums and a red devil
>> so
>> badly they had to be removed, beaten up with no tails.
>>
>> Thing is, I like this green terror a lot. My girlfriend likes it even
>> more,
>> mistakenly thinking it's a female, she named it Brigid for the Celtic
>> Goddess of war. So I want to keep it, therefore the obvious answer to
>> trade
>> him in or flush him isn't an option, at least until everything else
>> fails..
>> I want to exhaust every other option first.
>>
>> So I've been trying various methods to curb his aggression. I put in
>> several silver dollars as dithers, he chased them for a while but when
>> he
>> realised he couldn't catch them just gave up and now ignores them. I
>> put in
>> a couple of mbuna (a cynotilapia afra and 2 demosoni) and he chases
>> them
>> occasionally but still picks on the other weaker fish more (usually
>> targeting one at a time). I put in a pair of convicts hoping they
>> would set
>> up a territory and be able to defend it from him, which could absorb
>> alot of
>> aggression, but he's been able to prevent them from settling in
>> anywhere and
>> persecutes the male mercilessly. I put a large Oscar in the tank
>> hoping he
>> would be able to keep the peace (this has worked before), but even
>> though it
>> was twice his size, the Green Terror quickly intimidated him and now
>> the
>> Oscar is sulking on the bottom, refusing to eat.
>>
>> Finally I tried an old trick and put a little mirror from my neighbors
>> cockatiel cage in the tank. This has finally seemed to work to some
>> extent.
>> The Green Terror spends hours squaring off with the mirror, posturing
>> in
>> front of it, wagging his tail, swiming around and a round it, and just
>> staring at it sullenly from behind a rock (the mbuna and the female
>> convicts
>> also freak out on it). He finally saw a face he was scared of.
>>
>> My question now is, will the mirror leach any metals or glue into the
>> tank
>> which could hurt the fish? Can I leave it in there for a few hours a
>> day or
>> not? It doesn't seem to work as well when taped to the outside of the
>> tank
>> but I could do that as second tier alternative.
>>
>> Any other ideas on reducing this guys aggression would be welcome too.
>>
>> Jr
>>
>>
> OK - my cichlid experience is with Mbunas....quite a mean type of
> fish...when I read "mildly aggressive" I didn't realise it had context
> but it is all a learning experience....anyway the tank after 12 months
> has reached a balance...there have been battles and murders but I'm
> taking on board that this is a hazzard with keeping these type of fish
> (I've also rescued and returned some of the persecuted to the LFS - but
> not all)...we now call the current Alpha fish "Batter" - firstly
> because he will batter any other fish in the tank given half a chance
> and secondly because my mum reckons he is almost of a size to make a
> decent meal deep fried with batter - lol
>
> My feeling is that you are fighting a losing battle...keep the fish in
> question by all means but don't mix him with other cichlids who will
> also battle for their place in the pecking order - it will end in
> tears...find suitable tank mates (if there are any - no experience of
> green terrors) or house him on his own or with a suitable mate...
>
> By putting in a mirror you will be causing stress to the fish in
> question...he is now involved in a battle he cannot win...imagine
> spending your entire life face to face with whoever you perceive to be
> the enemy. It might detract attention from the others but is not a long
> term solution especially for the Green terror...decide which fish is
> important to you...if it is the others rehouse or rehome the green
> terror...if it is him rehouse or rehome the others...
>
> You could try messing with the tank decor and moving caves, add caves,
> add plants...this would be more effective long term than forcing the
> fish to believe there is another alpha in the tank...but in reality it
> just won't work IMO...if the Green Terror loses his alpha status
> another fish will step in and then it will be him that you are worrying
> about...
>
> So to sum up...rehouse him or send him back to the LFS...anything else
> from my experience with cichlids will end in tears....
>
> Gill

Mixing adult territorial cichlids is difficult enough, but trying to do
it with a hyper-aggressive will raise *your* blood pressure (_and_ tear
up other fish). I suspect the mirror is just winding him up more, but
drawing off a lot of his energy. The mirror's finish (silver oxide?)
might not be toxic (I don't know), but the mirror's effect probably won't
do his health any good, long term ;~). I've no opinion on dropping the
mirror in occasionally. You would just have to assess if he is better
with or without it. You could probably seal the mirror, or use a
different reflective material(?).

You could slip a sheet of glass lengthwise down the tank, so the Terror
gets front & center, and the fish in the back don't get mangled.
Picture a planted tank in the back with Neons ;~)... but it's one more
piece of glass to keep clean from algae (and compartment to filter).

You could also dump a lot of rocks and driftwood in, and just keep the
smaller Convicts. Make sure the openings are Convict sized and not GT
sized.

Maybe get him his own 55g and then re-populate the 75g with something
else. I've had a few old cichlids who just got too cantankerous to keep
any tankmates with. They certainly have their personality, and they
usually have great color, fins and a nuchal hump. Good luck (you might
need it).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Koi-Lo]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
> Maybe get him his own 55g and then re-populate the 75g with something
> else. I've had a few old cichlids who just got too cantankerous to keep
> any tankmates with. They certainly have their personality, and they
> usually have great color, fins and a nuchal hump. Good luck (you might
> need it).
=======================
If you just have to keep those nasty tempered cichlids there are always
those tank dividers the FSs sell. I haven't seen anyone on these NGs
mention them. They do come in handy and they do work.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Big Dummy]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...

> The managuanense was real pussycat.
>
> If anybody knows of any large male jag cichlids near Troonto ontario
please
> drop a line to evans at vrx.net. he has three large females in a 150 gal
tank
> that keep spawning and cannot find a male.

I actually have a large male in New Orleans but thats a bit far :)

DB

[Big Dummy]

"Peter Mason" > wrote in message

> Consider yourself lucky, BD. I've had several green terrors and only one
> had the expected attitude. The rest were/are wimps. Even the sparky
> one's kids turned out to be luke-warm. A fish like that deserves to be
> treasured in his own tank, perhaps with a mate.
>

yeah there definately seem to be a variety of sub-species of these, because
the last two I had were moderately aggressive as well, this one is like the
meanest Red Devil I ever owned, like an Umbee or something, and he's just a
baby (I may have neglected to mention all of these fish are small juveniles,
the Green Terror is about 2")

But as you insinuate, the meanest of these varmints are often the most
interesting and fun conversely, with the most interesting intelligent and
interractive personalities. Thats why I just have to keep this sucker.

Right now he has kind of calmed down for the time being since I took the
oscar out (the puffer was taking bites out of it...) he may have plateued in
his aggression after a long session of fighting his reflection or he may
just be waiting to pick a new victim. The mirror is out for the time being
too.

DB

[[email protected]]

Uh - you're supposed to tape the mirror to the OUTSIDE of the tank!

On a sidenote, regarding some of the other replies: why would anyone,
ever, *want* their cichlid to become psychotic?
Anyway, if you want psycho fish, get yourself a male and keep him all
alone in a big tank. As he matures he'll grow hyperaggressive and be
impossible to keep with other fish; he'll even try to attack his owner
through the glass. Which apparently somehow is a good thing.

[Koi-Lo]

"Cichlidiot" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids Koi-Lo > wrote:
>
> : If you just have to keep those nasty tempered cichlids there are always
> : those tank dividers the FSs sell. I haven't seen anyone on these NGs
> : mention them. They do come in handy and they do work.
>
> That's because they are too flimsy to work with large cichlids. All the
> ones I've seen are not very ridgid in the center. A good whack by a
> determined large fish and the pressure that keeps it mounted to the sides
> gives way. Usually one corner towards the bottom will float away from the
> tank glass at this point and that's enough of an opening for the cichlid
> to get through. At least that has been my experience with store-bought
> tank dividers.

This is true. I didn't keep my SA cichlids long enough for them to reach
such a size (to down the dividers).

> Now, there is a DIY tank divider that uses egg crate. Egg crate is much
> less flexible and stands up to the abuse better. What you do is go over
> to the hardware store and ask for the lighting section.

I know what it is. I got mine from Home Depot. I used it to keep jumpers
from committing suicide. I decided to switch to Lake Malawi African
Cichlids so didn't need dividers. I just got rid of the overly aggressive
ones.

When there, ask
> for the 2'x4' light diffusers. One will be a series of white squares.
> This is egg crate. Get some good wire/plastic snippers while there too
> if you don't have any. If you want to cover the rough edges of the cut
> egg crate, you can also pick up some food grade flexible tubing (like
> filter hose tubing) that is of sufficient diameter to slip over the edge.
> Go home, measure the tank, cut the egg crate to size. Optionally cut a
> slit in the tubing and slip it over all the rough edges in the egg crate.
> Put it in the tank and secure with ties or suction cups so the fish cannot
> push it around. Classic divider. Here's a few sites with pictures of such
> dividers and fancier variations:
>
> http://cichlidresearch.com/tips.html
> http://www.aquamojo.com/misc/divider.html (Uses PVC with suction cups)
> http://www.gcca.net/howto/tank_divider.htm (Uses PVC frame)
>
> One advantage with egg crate is you can cut small openings in the middle
> (be sure to sand the edges smooth so fish don't scrape themselves). Then
> smaller fish can have full run of the tank while the larger fish is kept
> in its side. This is often used to breed large cichlids where the female
> is smaller than the male. This way the female can retreat to safety when
> need be, but still interact with her mate otherwise. This is often called
> the incomplete divider method. If you have Loiselle's Cichlid Aquarium
> book, there is a picture of such a divider in the breeding section.

I saw the pic. I may still have the book out in the storage outbuilding.
Hummm... no, maybe it was in a book on breeding cichlids. Wow, that
description brought back memories. :-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[NetMax]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Uh - you're supposed to tape the mirror to the OUTSIDE of the tank!
>
> On a sidenote, regarding some of the other replies: why would anyone,
> ever, *want* their cichlid to become psychotic?
> Anyway, if you want psycho fish, get yourself a male and keep him all
> alone in a big tank. As he matures he'll grow hyperaggressive and be
> impossible to keep with other fish; he'll even try to attack his owner
> through the glass. Which apparently somehow is a good thing.



All the hyper-aggressives I've seen were living in isolation because of
their personality. I'd never known or seen isolation intentionally used to
create a hyper-aggressive fish. If this is true, I hope it doesn't become
common knowledge.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Melissa Danforth]

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids NetMax > wrote:
: All the hyper-aggressives I've seen were living in isolation because of
: their personality. I'd never known or seen isolation intentionally used to
: create a hyper-aggressive fish. If this is true, I hope it doesn't become
: common knowledge.

It sounded more like a description of how fighting pit bulls were raised
than of fish. Now, I can see if you take a typically aggressive fish that
has been living solo in a tank barely adequate for his needs and throw in
another fish how he might kill it. But that has more to do with not paying
attention to the territorial needs of the fish and the proper ways to
introduce adult territorial fish (particularly two males, who would be
rivals in the wild). If you raised them together since juvenials in the
same tank, there would probably still come a day that they beat the snot
out of each other once they get too big for the tank. It's just the nature
of cichlids, but I can see how someone less knowledgable who's been reading
too much about fighting pit bulls could make the mistake. Hint, the key
difference between dogs and cichlids: dogs are pack animals if properly
socialized as puppies, most cichlids are not.

[Cichlidiot]

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids Gill Passman > wrote:
: By putting in a mirror you will be causing stress to the fish in
: question...he is now involved in a battle he cannot win...imagine
: spending your entire life face to face with whoever you perceive to be
: the enemy.

I call BS on this one. If this were true, countless breeders around the
world who use rack systems would be subjecting their cichlids to stress
because they can see the fish in the neighboring tank, but not actually
reach them. I watch my N. pulcher and N. similis in neighboring tanks in
the rack stare and flare at each other through the glass all the time.
Are you going to say all of the breeders using these rack setups are
being cruel to our fish? Please, watch for the slippery slope before you
slide on down it.

[Gill Passman]

Cichlidiot wrote:
> In rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids Gill Passman > wrote:
> : By putting in a mirror you will be causing stress to the fish in
> : question...he is now involved in a battle he cannot win...imagine
> : spending your entire life face to face with whoever you perceive to be
> : the enemy.
>
> I call BS on this one. If this were true, countless breeders around the
> world who use rack systems would be subjecting their cichlids to stress
> because they can see the fish in the neighboring tank, but not actually
> reach them. I watch my N. pulcher and N. similis in neighboring tanks in
> the rack stare and flare at each other through the glass all the time.
> Are you going to say all of the breeders using these rack setups are
> being cruel to our fish? Please, watch for the slippery slope before you
> slide on down it.

I think that maybe you miss my point here....fish flaring at one another
in neighbouring tanks is a whole different scenario...one will
eventually back down or maybe the battle will continue who knows....a
fish attacking itself is entirely different - he cannot possibly win or
lose because his reflection is just what it is "a mirror image" - so it
becomes an endless fight...even with fish in neighbouring tanks the same
thing does not apply because you are looking at the individual fish and
not mirror copies of one fish in terms of agression - and lets face it
with breeders their fish have that ultimate outlet of sex with the
various females...in an enclosed space with just one male, I do believe
getting him to fight it out with himself is not good for him - he will
never win and no pecking order can be established...So I say to you that
there is a very big difference between two male fish seeing one another
and an individual fish fighting himself....I don't believe that you are
suggesting that those that breed fish just show the males
themsleves..there is a myriad of difference here...

Would you ever put a betta in a tank with a continual mirror image of
himself? I for one would never do it...would I keep multiple sex
cichlids in a tank knowing that there will be the alpha and subordinate
struggle irrespective of divides - yes I do....do I keep other fish
together that have the same conflicts - yes I do...would I ever isolate
my most aggressive Mbuna and just give him a mirror image of himself to
fight - never...it would be cruel...

Gill

[Beano]

Ok how about this... Take the green terror back, and swap it for
another very similar looking green severum, and your girlfriend will
never know...

[traydogg6969]

i could always let u borrow my red devil for a few hours to drop in ur
tank and see if hes still mean after that.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

[Peter Mason]

wrote:
> Uh - you're supposed to tape the mirror to the OUTSIDE of the tank!
>
> On a sidenote, regarding some of the other replies: why would anyone,
> ever, *want* their cichlid to become psychotic?
> Anyway, if you want psycho fish, get yourself a male and keep him all
> alone in a big tank. As he matures he'll grow hyperaggressive and be
> impossible to keep with other fish; he'll even try to attack his owner
> through the glass. Which apparently somehow is a good thing.

Psychotic is a hard take on it, Mike. I admire a fish that can give
attitude from a bucket but I wouldn't want to turn a fish into a psycho and
it isn't the quality that I like. As BD says, a fish like this usually has
an interesting, intelligent and interactive personality. He'll be
interested in everything - inside and outside the tank. He'll look you in
the eye and have an opinion. If he's fearless then all the better. A
fish that thinks "stuff the food chain" is special, all considered, and
fearless doesn't necessarily mean psychotic.

[toreskeviin]

I've been keeping cichlids for 20 years. During this time 95% of the time in my tank is a peaceful, almost no "threat"any more than fish terror is stored in a tank started. And possible
Territorial species, such as I found a good initial treatment balance is difficult, in this case I seem to have a particularly aggressive specimens.

[rogerjackkson]

I have been a problem over the territory of the green terror in my 75 gallons tank, he killed gymnogeophageous meridonalis, Jaguar guapote, two plecostomus and synuspillum, chew two severums and red devil so bad they had to be removed, beaten , No tail.