meth blue.. is very blue!

[Flash Wilson]

I've never used meth blue before, but my betta has a bad case
of fungus which is suddenly worsening, so I've made him up a
little tank and put the correct dose of meth blue in it.

The water is really dark!

Is it really meant to be deep blue, rather than just a slight
staining?!

Also, I was going to leave him in it for a week and then change
*all* the water.

Are bettas ok with meth blue? I've already tried him with my
favourite cure-all, Esha 2000, and tried popping him in a net
box in a large tank which I know has good water quality and
constant temperature, just to be sure... and it's got worse.

--
Flash Wilson
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I'm an advocate of sex before marriage.
Otherwise I wouldn't have had any at all."

[Matthew Clark]

> Is it really meant to be deep blue, rather than just a slight
> staining?!

Yes, methylene blue is very blue, which is one reason while it isn't
used nowadays as much as it used to be -- it often stains sealant,
decor, etc.

> Also, I was going to leave him in it for a week and then change
> *all* the water.

Instead of that, how about adding some activated carbon to the filter
and doing several smaller changes?

> Are bettas ok with meth blue?

Yes.

Matthew Clark

[Flash Wilson]

On 5 Jan 2004 16:33:43 -0800, Matthew Clark > wrote:
>> Is it really meant to be deep blue, rather than just a slight
>> staining?!
>
>Yes, methylene blue is very blue, which is one reason while it isn't
>used nowadays as much as it used to be -- it often stains sealant,
>decor, etc.

It's less deep this morning but it was a bit of a shock yesterday
- it was the same dark blue colour as my fish!

>> Also, I was going to leave him in it for a week and then change
>> *all* the water.
>
>Instead of that, how about adding some activated carbon to the filter
>and doing several smaller changes?

It's not a filtered tank; he's in isolation in a 2g tank.
I couldn't find a heater or filter small enough to handle it,
but it's perfectly stable. Normally. In any case I used this
tank so there was no filter to kill with the meth blue :/

>> Are bettas ok with meth blue?
>
>Yes.

Thanks very much for the comments!

--
Flash Wilson
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Since working for Demon, or Thus, or whatever you call it,
I've been able to understand Rab C Nesbitt" - A Network Admin

[Flash Wilson]

On 6 Jan 2004 03:36:17 GMT, High Flight > wrote:
>>> Also, I was going to leave him in it for a week and then change
>>> *all* the water.
>>
>> Instead of that, how about adding some activated carbon to the filter
>> and doing several smaller changes?
>
>When I treated with methyl blue, it was in an isolation container. And I
>did total water changes every day for 3 days.

Um, this confuses me somewhat. The meth blue instructions said
to leave for a week then do water changes / use carbon / whatever
as normal. So I assumed that I should treat the fish for a week.

Do you mean you did a total water change every day for 3 days
and added the meth blue each time, and after 3 days you stopped
the treatment?

I'm not really sure about this, I was going to follow the
instructions and treat for a week, keeping an eye on a) the
fish's general health and b) the fungus he has got.

I don't know whether meth blue bothers a betta a little or
if he could live in it forever, etc etc. Certainly his fungus
is very large and I'm surprised it doesn't affect his
swimming or demeanour, so this is my all-out attempt to fix
it. I don't actually know how long it will take to heal
or what else to try, so any further advice welcome.

Thanks very much for the comments!

--
__ __ ____ __ ____ __ __ __ _ ___ _ _ __ _ ___ ___ _ _ __ _
\ V V /\ V V /\ V V // _` / _ \ '_/ _` / -_)_/ _ \ '_/ _` |
\_/\_/ \_/\_/ \_/\_(_)__, \___/_| \__, \___(_)___/_| \__, |
|___/ |___/ |___/

[RedForeman ©®]

Flash, I understand your confusion entirely... I was confused when some
clowns got ich for the first time, and asked a buddy about it... He told me
what to get, but said to ditch the instructions... I asked why, he said,
the instructions would probably kill the fish but not being aggressive
enough, and that the chances were they are more of a basic operating
guideline, than instructions....

In the end, I've taken most instructions with a grain of salt, meaning, I
take the ppl here's word more than the instructons... why? Most of these
people have done it, have been there, and are for the most part, honest
about their outcomes....

Sorry I can't add anything about MB,never used it... lucky I guess...

--

RedForeman ©®





"Flash Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> On 6 Jan 2004 03:36:17 GMT, High Flight > wrote:
> >>> Also, I was going to leave him in it for a week and then change
> >>> *all* the water.
> >>
> >> Instead of that, how about adding some activated carbon to the filter
> >> and doing several smaller changes?
> >
> >When I treated with methyl blue, it was in an isolation container. And I
> >did total water changes every day for 3 days.
>
> Um, this confuses me somewhat. The meth blue instructions said
> to leave for a week then do water changes / use carbon / whatever
> as normal. So I assumed that I should treat the fish for a week.
>
> Do you mean you did a total water change every day for 3 days
> and added the meth blue each time, and after 3 days you stopped
> the treatment?
>
> I'm not really sure about this, I was going to follow the
> instructions and treat for a week, keeping an eye on a) the
> fish's general health and b) the fungus he has got.
>
> I don't know whether meth blue bothers a betta a little or
> if he could live in it forever, etc etc. Certainly his fungus
> is very large and I'm surprised it doesn't affect his
> swimming or demeanour, so this is my all-out attempt to fix
> it. I don't actually know how long it will take to heal
> or what else to try, so any further advice welcome.
>
> Thanks very much for the comments!
>
> --
> __ __ ____ __ ____ __ __ __ _ ___ _ _ __ _ ___ ___ _ _ __ _
> \ V V /\ V V /\ V V // _` / _ \ '_/ _` / -_)_/ _ \ '_/ _` |
> \_/\_/ \_/\_/ \_/\_(_)__, \___/_| \__, \___(_)___/_| \__, |
> |___/ |___/ |___/

[NetMax]

"High Flight" > wrote in message
...
> Flash Wilson > says...
> > On 5 Jan 2004 16:33:43 -0800, Matthew Clark >
wrote:
> >>> Is it really meant to be deep blue, rather than just a slight
> >>> staining?!
> >>
> >>Yes, methylene blue is very blue, which is one reason while it isn't
> >>used nowadays as much as it used to be -- it often stains sealant,
> >>decor, etc.

FWIW, I've received fish orders in water so blue, I had a hard time
figuring out what was inside (looking through about 4" of water). I've
never attributed any special stress to this, but it can't be completely
benign. Interestingly enough, when the fish are removed from the bag,
any that died in transit are stained blue, while the others are not.
I've no trade experience with meth. as it's not used much by hobbyists
here. It stains too much and it's not very powerful IMO. If you can
clearly see the fish, I suspect it will not be harmful.

NetMax

[Flash Wilson]

On 6 Jan 2004 14:28:53 GMT, High Flight > wrote:
>The way you worded that leads me to believe you're possibly messing up
>your dilution ratio.

Ok, here's what I've done: I have Interpet Methylene Blue
which says to add 1ml (a pipette filled to shoulder) per 5 litres.
I double and triple checked. That's what it said. It added that
this should be added to 1/2 litre warm water to be added to the tank.

I have the betta in an isolation tank which is about 8l big.
So I took 1 pipette and a jugful of tank water, mixed them
together and put back into the tank.

I checked the bottle but it doesn't say what concentration it's
in, just that 1ml goes in 5l of tank water.

>I would prepare one gallon of blue in a one gallon milk jug. I'd fill
>about halfway, then add precisely one drop of mblue and dechlor and agitate
>like hell until it was ALL dissolved; then top it off. That jug became my
>replacement water.

If I knew the ppm in the concentration it would be easier for
me to do that; otherwise I have to trust the instructions...

>> and after 3 days you stopped the treatment?
>
>Usually, yes.

*noted*

>> I'm not really sure about this, I was going to follow the
>> instructions and treat for a week, keeping an eye on a) the
>> fish's general health and b) the fungus he has got.
>
>Sounds like an excellent idea to me!

:-)

>> I don't know whether meth blue bothers a betta a little or
>> if he could live in it forever, etc etc.
>
>I'd make sure the treatment water isn't overconcentrated.

Well, it's done according to instructions. Yesterday it
was deep blue to the extent that I was concerned, today it
is lighter blue (having changed nothing). Betta looks ok
but still has the fungal problem.

Hang on, I'll take some photos...

Ok, they aren't great but hopefully they make some sense
/show some detail.

http://www.gorge.org/fish/blue/DSCF0014.JPG
shows the difference in colour between that tank and the one
with a female in it - this is much lighter blue than yesterday!

http://www.gorge.org/fish/blue/DSCF0017.JPG
shows the growth at the end of his body

and if you're interested http://www.gorge.org/fish/blue/
has various other photos of the poor chap's growth and
his blue tank.

I'd love to know the best thing to do, and if there's a
better way to treat him...

Thanks,

--
Flash Wilson
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
About me: http://www.gorge.org
About Leyton, East London: http://leyton.info

[Flash Wilson]

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:43:39 -0500, RedForeman ©® > wrote:
>Flash, I understand your confusion entirely...

Hurrah! Thanks :-)

>In the end, I've taken most instructions with a grain of salt, meaning, I
>take the ppl here's word more than the instructons... why? Most of these
>people have done it, have been there, and are for the most part, honest
>about their outcomes....

Sure - that's why I'm asking in here...

Normally my fish are fine, or fine with a water change if for
example I have neglected to spend time on maintenance for some
reason (which I try not to do of course!)

I had a problem with one tank and esha2000 sorted it out.

I haven't been able to make this poor fish better and although
he seems fine I can't believe it isn't hurting him in some way
- so I really need to make it better. Meth Blue seems like the
harsh but effective solution. I cant get antibiotic stuff in
the UK but I'd welcome any other ideas...

--
Flash Wilson
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I'm an advocate of sex before marriage.
Otherwise I wouldn't have had any at all."

[Flash Wilson]

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:45:15 -0500, NetMax > wrote:
>FWIW, I've received fish orders in water so blue, I had a hard time
>figuring out what was inside (looking through about 4" of water). I've

Oh dear! Well, that makes me think mine isn't too bad!

>I've no trade experience with meth. as it's not used much by hobbyists
>here. It stains too much and it's not very powerful IMO. If you can

Well here in the uk we cant get antibiotics that you US ppl often
refer to, and I dont know what to try that is stronger :-(

>clearly see the fish, I suspect it will not be harmful.

Thanks :)


--
. ( www.gorge.org/fish )
\_____)\_____ O
/--v____ __`< . o
)/

[~misfit~]

NetMax wrote:
> "High Flight" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Flash Wilson > says...
>>> On 5 Jan 2004 16:33:43 -0800, Matthew Clark >
> wrote:
>>>>> Is it really meant to be deep blue, rather than just a slight
>>>>> staining?!
>>>>
>>>> Yes, methylene blue is very blue, which is one reason while it
>>>> isn't used nowadays as much as it used to be -- it often stains
>>>> sealant, decor, etc.
>
> FWIW, I've received fish orders in water so blue, I had a hard time
> figuring out what was inside (looking through about 4" of water).
> I've never attributed any special stress to this, but it can't be
> completely benign. Interestingly enough, when the fish are removed
> from the bag, any that died in transit are stained blue, while the
> others are not. I've no trade experience with meth. as it's not used
> much by hobbyists here. It stains too much and it's not very
> powerful IMO. If you can clearly see the fish, I suspect it will not
> be harmful.

Meth blue has the beneficial side-effect of increasing the water's ability
to hold disolved oxygen.
--
~misfit~

[Flash Wilson]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:57:30 +1300, ~misfit~ > wrote:
>Meth blue has the beneficial side-effect of increasing the water's ability
>to hold disolved oxygen.

That's interesting!

My betta doesn't seem unhappy, he is making bubbles and swimming around
happily enough, and he seems to be healing a little but it's hard to tell.

So, could he in theory swim in meth-blue water for as long as it takes to
heal (which I imagine would be several weeks) or might it cumulatively
be harmful?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

So far the responses seem to say that it's fine to keep fish in water
with meth blue in (obviously not for filters, acryllic stuff, etc) and
that in fact there might be a few small benefits from doing so.

Am I right or missing something?

Cheers all (didn't mean to make this such a long thread, sorry!)
--
Flash . o O ( www.gorge.org )

[~misfit~]

Flash Wilson wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:57:30 +1300, ~misfit~ >
> wrote:
>> Meth blue has the beneficial side-effect of increasing the water's
>> ability to hold disolved oxygen.
>
> That's interesting!
>
> My betta doesn't seem unhappy, he is making bubbles and swimming
> around happily enough, and he seems to be healing a little but it's
> hard to tell.
>
> So, could he in theory swim in meth-blue water for as long as it
> takes to heal (which I imagine would be several weeks) or might it
> cumulatively
> be harmful?

It shouldn't hurt him as long as it isn't waaaay to strong.

> That's what I'm trying to figure out.
>
> So far the responses seem to say that it's fine to keep fish in water
> with meth blue in (obviously not for filters, acryllic stuff, etc) and
> that in fact there might be a few small benefits from doing so.
>
> Am I right or missing something?

It will damage biological filtration so, for long-term treatment with meth
blue, the only way to control waste-products is regular (read - daily)
partial water changes.

I wouldn't recommend keeping a fish in meth blue for ever, up to a month
maybe. The fish will take some of it into it's system and long-term exposure
can be carcinogenic. I've seen albino corydoras that have been kept in water
with meth blue for a while that have actually taken on a blue tint that took
weeks to go away.

When I was 'in the business' some shippers always shipped their fish in meth
blue, and gave three reasons; preventitive treatment (there is a better word
that eludes me at present, hang on.... prophylatic dosage I believe),
increased oxygen availability and darkening of the water, causing less
stress when containers are opened etc. and making the fish's metabolism
slower by fooling it into 'thinking' that it's night-time.

Good luck with your fish.
--
~misfit~