What do you think of these fish in a 55G

[Harry Muscle]

These are the fish I was thinking of putting in my planted 55G. Looking for
some feedback about whether it's too much, etc.

1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish
1 pair Kribs
1 pair Swordtails
1 pair Guppies
6 Cory Jullii
3 Clown Loaches
12 small Tetras (still have to determine which ones)
6-12 algae eaters (SAE and/or Ottos)
bunch of ghost shrimp (maybe)
bunch of malaysian trumpet snails

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. If I actually have room for more, I was thinking of adding 4-6 zebra
danios.





-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Flash Wilson]

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:51:51 -0500, Harry Muscle > wrote:
>These are the fish I was thinking of putting in my planted 55G. Looking for
>some feedback about whether it's too much, etc.
>
>1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish

When you say "pair" do you simply mean two in number, or a male and
a female?

I wouldn't put them in anything as big as a 55g, I think there
was another threat recently about how unhappy they are in a
big space. Also, I've had two females which got along, but also
another one which didn't and had to be separated. And the male
would surely need to be separated. I'd leave Siamese fighters
out of a community tank to be certain.

>1 pair Kribs
>1 pair Swordtails
>1 pair Guppies

Well I guess their fry would be live food for the others
if by pair you mean one of each. I've also heard that
because of their insatiable sexual appetite it's rather
cruel to have one male to one female - get one male to a
handful of females, so the lasses get some time off!

>6 Cory Jullii
>3 Clown Loaches
>12 small Tetras (still have to determine which ones)

I find my kribs bully fish at feeding time and especially
if they have laid eggs. This is fine when they are bullying
clown loaches twice their size but I wouldn't like to keep
small fish in there. YMMV.

>6-12 algae eaters (SAE and/or Ottos)
>bunch of ghost shrimp (maybe)

I think those would get eaten, I'm not sure if the kribs
would dive in first and the clowns pull off any bits they
could, but I can see those getting chomped.

>bunch of malaysian trumpet snails

My clown loaches manage to keep the population of these
down unfortunately so I never see any... not sure how
successful it would be.

>P.S. If I actually have room for more, I was thinking of adding 4-6 zebra
>danios.

Without wishing to comment on whether you have room for all those
fishes when full grown (simply because I havent kept them all
and also because I reckon you will have to change your selection
so it will be irrelevant) I would say you always have room for
4-6 zebra danios in a largish tank like that one.. because
they don't produce much waste so won't trouble the filter,
and zoom about in the top few inches of water - and I don't
think you've listed anything else that will be swimming that
high, the guppies perhaps.

HTH.


--
Flash Wilson
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Me: So what is Gary's title these days?
Mike: ****.

[blove]

id never put a male and a female siamese fighting fish in the same tank
together unless it is heavily planted and even only if i was experienced in
the particuliar fish. males can kill unwilling to mate females and females
have been known to kill males. id just go with atleast 3 females. i have 4
female bettas in my 30 long and everyone gets along fine. but i wouldnt mix
males with females. with the guppies and swordtails you want 3 females to
each male just so the male doesnt pester the one female all the time to
breed. the jullii corys sound good with that many just cuz they do best in
groups of 3 or more., i dont know much aobut clown loaches and i dont know
much about the kribs. instead of those algea eaters i think a male and
female albino bristlenose pleco would be cool, they dont get huge like the
common plecos. i have a bunch of ghost shrimp in my 30 and they are good
little cleaners and fun to watch too. the clown loaches would probably eat
the snails, i do know they love snails.
i wouldnt add everyone at once id only add a few to let the tank cycle and
after the cycling id still gradually add until you have what ya want but as
for being too much, that one inch of fish per gallon rule is i find more of
a guidline for new aquariasts, as long as you routinly check your water
parameters and partial regularly and dont overfeed it should be ok.

"Harry Muscle" > wrote in message
...
> These are the fish I was thinking of putting in my planted 55G. Looking
for
> some feedback about whether it's too much, etc.
>
> 1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish
> 1 pair Kribs
> 1 pair Swordtails
> 1 pair Guppies
> 6 Cory Jullii
> 3 Clown Loaches
> 12 small Tetras (still have to determine which ones)
> 6-12 algae eaters (SAE and/or Ottos)
> bunch of ghost shrimp (maybe)
> bunch of malaysian trumpet snails
>
> Thanks,
> Harry
>
> P.S. If I actually have room for more, I was thinking of adding 4-6 zebra
> danios.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Sue]

> 1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish -either ONE male OR three or four females.
Its best to not mix sexes in a community tank.
Bettas are fine in big tanks but be careful if your LFS keeps them in tiny
containers as they may be rather unfit when first introduced. A breeding net
makes a good training area.
> 1 pair Kribs
- not ideal with smaller fish. Try apistogrammas, laetacaras or Rams
instead.
> 1 pair Swordtails > 1 pair Guppies -
These prefer much harder water than your other choices so I wouldn't have
them.
> 6 Cory Jullii
-fine
> 3 Clown Loaches
- fine but the tank need to be mature & they will get big but take some time
doing so.
> 12 small Tetras (still have to determine which ones)
fine but I'd suggest 2 groups of 6 to give interest at different levels. If
you get pentazona barbs your clowns will school with them.
> 6-12 algae eaters (SAE and/or Ottos)
3 SAE or 5-6 otos or both.
> bunch of ghost shrimp (maybe) > bunch of malaysian trumpet snails
-both lunch for clown loaches.
> P.S. If I actually have room for more, I was thinking of adding 4-6 zebra
> danios.
-put these in first!
Sue

[Harry Muscle]

"Sue" > wrote in message
...
> > 1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish -either ONE male OR three or four females.
> Its best to not mix sexes in a community tank.

Just out of curiosity, but why do you say that?

SNIP

> > 1 pair Swordtails > 1 pair Guppies -
> These prefer much harder water than your other choices so I wouldn't have
> them.

According to fishprofiles.com all of the fish (except the livebearers) are
OK in 5-19dH water. The livebearers are ok in 10-20dH. My water is around
7-8dH, which I'm hoping is going to be ok for the Guppies & Swordtails
especially since I used to have guppies many years ago in the same 7-8dH
water and they did really good (or at least they bred like crazy).

SNIP
> Sue
>

Thanks for the input,
Harry




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[RedForeman ©®]

If you're referring to bettas, sue is right... the male will be the living
$hit out of the female if/when he decides to mate.... it's not advisable to
put a male and female betta in the same tank without removing the female
after the male builds the bubble nest and she does her thing....

if you're talking about chinese algae eaters, then YGIAGAM (your guess is as
good as mine)

--

RedForeman ©®





"Harry Muscle" > wrote in message
...
> "Sue" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > 1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish -either ONE male OR three or four
females.
> > Its best to not mix sexes in a community tank.
>
> Just out of curiosity, but why do you say that?
>
> SNIP
>
> > > 1 pair Swordtails > 1 pair Guppies -
> > These prefer much harder water than your other choices so I wouldn't
have
> > them.
>
> According to fishprofiles.com all of the fish (except the livebearers) are
> OK in 5-19dH water. The livebearers are ok in 10-20dH. My water is
around
> 7-8dH, which I'm hoping is going to be ok for the Guppies & Swordtails
> especially since I used to have guppies many years ago in the same 7-8dH
> water and they did really good (or at least they bred like crazy).
>
> SNIP
> > Sue
> >
>
> Thanks for the input,
> Harry
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: What do you think of these fish in a 55G
>From: (Flash Wilson)
>Date: 1/8/2004 10:28 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:51:51 -0500, Harry Muscle > wrote:
>>These are the fish I was thinking of putting in my planted 55G. Looking for
>>some feedback about whether it's too much, etc.
>>
>>1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish
>
>When you say "pair" do you simply mean two in number, or a male and
>a female?
>
>I wouldn't put them in anything as big as a 55g, I think there
>was another threat recently about how unhappy they are in a
>big space. Also, I've had two females which got along, but also
>another one which didn't and had to be separated. And the male
>would surely need to be separated. I'd leave Siamese fighters
>out of a community tank to be certain.

Why leave fighters out of a community tank? They're community fish!
There's nothing wrong with keeping bettas in with other fish, as long as they
(the Bettas) are getting nipped up.
As far as housing a male in with females, it's usually fine.
I would, however, have more females than just one.
Bettas will have a pecking order and this needs tobe found. Flashing,
posturing, chasing and even nipping are all apart of finding this order out.
Once it's found, everything's fine.
On the rare side, there are those overly aggressive Bettas...male or female,
that are too aggressive to be housed with any other Betta or fish for that
matter.
Also...where on earth did you read that Bettas were unhappy in large spaces?
What a bunch of crap! Totally, 100% false!
Don't believe a word of it.
If you can remember where you've read this, please let me know.

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: What do you think of these fish in a 55G
>From: "blove"
>Date: 1/8/2004 10:35 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>id never put a male and a female siamese fighting fish in the same tank
>together unless it is heavily planted and even only if i was experienced in
>the particuliar fish. males can kill unwilling to mate females and females
>have been known to kill males. id just go with atleast 3 females. i have 4
>female bettas in my 30 long and everyone gets along fine. but i wouldnt mix
>males with females. with the guppies and swordtails you want 3 females to
>each male just so the male doesnt pester the one female all the time to
>breed. the jullii corys sound good with that many just cuz they do best in
>groups of 3 or more., i dont know much aobut clown loaches and i dont know
>much about the kribs. instead of those algea eaters i think a male and
>female albino bristlenose pleco would be cool, they dont get huge like the
>common plecos. i have a bunch of ghost shrimp in my 30 and they are good
>little cleaners and fun to watch too. the clown loaches would probably eat
>the snails, i do know they love snails.
>i wouldnt add everyone at once id only add a few to let the tank cycle and
>after the cycling id still gradually add until you have what ya want but as
>for being too much, that one inch of fish per gallon rule is i find more of
>a guidline for new aquariasts, as long as you routinly check your water
>parameters and partial regularly and dont overfeed it should be ok.

Being a Betta fancier for 25 yrs and a breeder for 19, I can assure you that
it's very possible to house a male Betta in with females and everything be
fine.
Each Betta has an individual personality. Simply because one male didn't get
along with females, doesn't mean the next 500 won't.
90% of the time being in a community type setting, Bettas being kept in it will
NOT show any spawning behavior. A female not willing to mate in this set up
isn't usually a problem....ever.
Really, the only time a male may kill a female is when their tank is too small,
or the keeper has left a female in the tank after a spawning has taken place.

[TYNK 7]

(snipped)
>Subject: Re: What do you think of these fish in a 55G
>From: "Sue"
>Date: 1/8/2004 12:32 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>

>> 1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish

>Its best to not mix sexes in a community tank.

What is your reasoning for this, and how much experience do you have with
Bettas?

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: What do you think of these fish in a 55G
>From: "RedForeman ©®"
>Date: 1/8/2004 1:21 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>If you're referring to bettas, sue is right... the male will be the living
>$hit out of the female if/when he decides to mate.... it's not advisable to
>put a male and female betta in the same tank without removing the female
>after the male builds the bubble nest and she does her thing....
>
>if you're talking about chinese algae eaters, then YGIAGAM (your guess is as
>good as mine)
>
>--
>
>RedForeman ©®
>

Wow! I am amazed at how many folks think this way.
As long as each individual Betta's personality allows for it, most of the time
you can house a male in with females. Granted there are some things that must
be done though.
For example....nothing smaller than a 10g tank EVER when housing a male in with
females.
It must be well planted and have plenty of hiding places.
There should be about 2-3 females (or more if tank size allows) and the male.
Care must be taken at first beause most males haven't even seen a female and
don't know how to behave.
Most show off and chase and for about a day then settle down. Some even nip,
but don't get nasty and shred fins.
This also goes for a female towards a male too.
Usually, the male will settle and totally ignore the female very quickly.
Now...if you're planning on tossing a male in with females in a small tank,
with hardly any plants or hiding places..sure that male will go after the
female.
However, that's not what was being talked about.
Bettas behavior under spawing conditions are very different and cannot be
compaired to that of living in a community tank.

[Sue]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
> (snipped)
> >Subject: Re: What do you think of these fish in a 55G
> >From: "Sue"
> >Date: 1/8/2004 12:32 PM Central Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
>
> >> 1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish
>
> >Its best to not mix sexes in a community tank.
>
> What is your reasoning for this, and how much experience do you have with
> Bettas?

I used to breed fighters up to twenty years ago. I did cull heavily so I
would only rear maybe 20 per spawn, maybe 6-10 broods a year for 10+ years!
I suppose that makes me a total novice. I actually imported the first
yellows into England from Denmark.
Since moving, & losing the fish house, I've always had a few around in
various community tanks. I've currently got a male in a 24" deep 40 imp
gallon corner tank with a very mixed community and another in 26" depth in a
tall hexagon.
Pairs can be compatible & share a community tank- but what do you do if the
pair you buy don't get along? You have to have somewhere else for the
female(s) in case they do spawn - they may try.
I've always found that with two females one will be dominant and harass the
other whereas with three or more they share out the bickering.
Sue

[TYNK 7]

(snipped)
I must correct a typeO!
>There's nothing wrong with keeping bettas in with other fish, as long as they
>(the Bettas) are getting nipped up.

That was supposed to say...
"As long as the bettas *aren't* getting nipped up".

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: What do you think of these fish in a 55G
>From: "Sue"
>Date: 1/9/2004 2:57 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>

(snipped)
>> >Its best to not mix sexes in a community tank.
>>
>> What is your reasoning for this, and how much experience do you have with
>> Bettas?

>I used to breed fighters up to twenty years ago. I did cull heavily so I
>would only rear maybe 20 per spawn, maybe 6-10 broods a year for 10+ years!
>I suppose that makes me a total novice.

Hehe, no my dear, that doesn't make you a novice. = )~

>I actually imported the first
>yellows into England from Denmark.

Very cool!

>Pairs can be compatible & share a community tank- but what do you do if the
>pair you buy don't get along?

This is why I usually tell the person about them having individual
personalities, and to always have a back-up plan in case they don't get along.

>You have to have somewhere else for the
>female(s) in case they do spawn - they may try.

I have never had a pair spawn in a community tank.
I always keep a resident male in with my females in a 29g tank.
I like housing a male in with the ladies because it keeps them "ready" for when
I decide to spawn.

[Ray]

-->"1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish"
probably beta's right. don't do it!!! Very teretorial fish and not good
to keep together for long periods,specialy after mating. keep a few females
together and the male in a seperate bowl. also I found that the females like
to hide a bit so make some good hiding places for them. however keep in mind
that some females are just as aggresive if not more so then the males and if
they feel crowded the will attack the weaker ones and possible kill.(natural
selection)
-->"1 pair Guppies"
guppies are small fish and great for creating live food for themselves and
other fish but best to keep several as they actual are a schooling type
fish.Guppies will canabalis there young very quickly. make sure to have some
good floating (fake or real) plants for the fry to hide in while growing to
adult hood
-->"6-12 algae eaters (SAE and/or Ottos)"
a SAE are a vey agressive fish always keep many but never a few
-->"6 Cory Jullii"
not sure on these as I only have Albino Cory's (so damn ugly there cute ;-)
-->"1 pair Kribs"
don't have these either and have no clue
-->"1 pair Swordtails"
had these when I was younger. agian a schooling fish in which you will want
to keep 1 or keep many but not a few.also rapid breeders as like guppies and
need good top side hiding places just like guppies
-->"3 Clown Loaches"
from what I understand (agian I don't have any of these) say good bye to the
guppies and to the swordtials as they make great all you can eat sushi
-->"12 small Tetras (still have to determine which ones)"
good keep many or one but not a few as they are most happy in a school.
-->4-6 zebra danios.
ok your starting to get the idea of 1 or many but not a few
Now for a bit of advice 1 inch (from tip of head to tip of tail) of fish per
gallon of water max. so research adult size and then plan on the amount of
fish to that. So 55 gal you want no more then 55 inches of adult fish size.
Always remember with schooling fish they prefer to be with a groupof 5 or
more less then that and they are not truly happy.So always keep many or keep
one for schooling fish.


"Harry Muscle" > wrote in message
...
> These are the fish I was thinking of putting in my planted 55G. Looking
for
> some feedback about whether it's too much, etc.
>
> 1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish
> 1 pair Kribs
> 1 pair Swordtails
> 1 pair Guppies
> 6 Cory Jullii
> 3 Clown Loaches
> 12 small Tetras (still have to determine which ones)
> 6-12 algae eaters (SAE and/or Ottos)
> bunch of ghost shrimp (maybe)
> bunch of malaysian trumpet snails
>
> Thanks,
> Harry
>
> P.S. If I actually have room for more, I was thinking of adding 4-6 zebra
> danios.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Giancarlo Podio]

> -->"3 Clown Loaches"
> from what I understand (agian I don't have any of these) say good bye to the
> guppies and to the swordtials as they make great all you can eat sushi

I don't think you'll have any problems with the clown loaches, they
have never hurt another fish in my tanks, swordtails included. The
guppies on the other hand will probably be the first to get picked off
if any of the fish do become a little agressive, but I doubt the
loaches will do anything. You can also keep MTS with loaches, seeing
they live under the substrate during the day, the loaches won't be
able to get to all of them, they will keep the population under
control but won't be able to exterminate them.

Hope that helps
Giancarlo Podio

[TYNK 7]

(Snipped)

>Subject: Re: What do you think of these fish in a 55G
>From: "Ray"
>Date: 2/15/2004 11:48 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <6RYXb.90336$ay1.8629@okepread05>
>
>-->"1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish"
> probably beta's right. don't do it!!! Very teretorial fish and not good
>to keep together for long periods,specialy after mating. keep a few females
>together and the male in a seperate bowl. also I found that the females like
>to hide a bit so make some good hiding places for them. however keep in mind
>that some females are just as aggresive if not more so then the males and if
>they feel crowded the will attack the weaker ones and possible kill.(natural
>selection)

Hi there.
First off..it's betta, (2 t's and is pronounced "bet-uh", not "bait-uh"...I
assume the misspelling from a mispronunciation..if it was just a type-o...never
mind). = )
The reason that female Bettas fight is to figure out their hierarchy, more than
a territory issue.

[TYNK 7]

(snipped)
Forgot something....
>
>>Subject: Re: What do you think of these fish in a 55G
>>From: "Ray"

>>-->"1 pair Siamese Fighting Fish"
>> probably beta's right. don't do it!!! Very teretorial fish and not good
>>to keep together for long periods,specialy after mating. keep a few females
>>together and the male in a seperate bowl.

>The reason that female Bettas fight is to figure out their hierarchy, more
>than
>a territory issue.
>

Also.....we are talking about a 55g tank here. That has PLENTY of room for a
female and male Betta.
Usually, the only trouble you would run into is if the individual personality
of each Betta was rotten...then you may have to have a back up plan of the
aggressor (male or female).

[IDzine01]

No one mentioned the filter in a 55-gal as being an issue too, so I
will.
While you can house bettas in a 55-gal community (one male or 3+
females IMO) It's advisable to make sure your tank is pretty heavily
planted. Bettas are not strong swimmers and have fragile fins. The
water flow in a 55 can be tough on the little guy/gals.

I often hear that Bettas don't like open spaces or large amounts of
water. That's just not true. They DO, however, like to explore plants
and hidey-holes and would rather not fight strong currents.

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: What do you think of these fish in a 55G
>From: (IDzine01)
>Date: 2/18/2004 11:19 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>No one mentioned the filter in a 55-gal as being an issue too, so I
>will.
>While you can house bettas in a 55-gal community (one male or 3+
>females IMO) It's advisable to make sure your tank is pretty heavily
>planted. Bettas are not strong swimmers and have fragile fins. The
>water flow in a 55 can be tough on the little guy/gals.
>
>I often hear that Bettas don't like open spaces or large amounts of
>water. That's just not true. They DO, however, like to explore plants
>and hidey-holes and would rather not fight strong currents.

::wipes a tear::
Where have you been???
Nice to have another knowledgeable betta fancier on board.

[IDzine01]

>
> ::wipes a tear::
> Where have you been???
> Nice to have another knowledgeable betta fancier on board.

Oh TYNK,
You've forgotten, we argued Betta parenting just a few short weeks
ago. Remember, we agreed on almost everything except the amount of
time a betta should play with his "flare buddy".

Ahhh, now you remember.
;-)

~Christie

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: What do you think of these fish in a 55G
>From: (IDzine01)
>Date: 2/20/2004 3:22 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>
>> ::wipes a tear::
>> Where have you been???
>> Nice to have another knowledgeable betta fancier on board.
>
>Oh TYNK,
>You've forgotten, we argued Betta parenting just a few short weeks
>ago. Remember, we agreed on almost everything except the amount of
>time a betta should play with his "flare buddy".
>
>Ahhh, now you remember.
>;-)
>
>~Christie

Ok ok, ya got me.
Have ya come around yet?
Your boys will love ya for it.

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: What do you think of these fish in a 55G
>From: (IDzine01)
>Date: 2/20/2004 3:22 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
(snipped)

>
>Oh TYNK,
>You've forgotten,

That's a major problem I've had all my life.
I was born without a memory card. = )~