Will amquel starve bacteria??

[BigBadGourami]

Hi I have a question. My tank is about 3 months old. I went through the
cycling and everything with a very small ammonia spike a large nitrite spike
(10ppm). Anyways, my water consistently tests with nitrite at 0 and ammonia
just barely detectable and nitrate less than 10ppm. I cannot seem to get
rid of the last bit of ammonia. My tap tested negative for chloramines.
The LFS recommends amquel. I asked him if it would starve my biological
filter. He said no that the ammonia would still be available for the
bacteria. I however am still doubtful. Do any of you know if amquel will
starve my biological filter? Can anyone tell me why my Nitrosomas are not
doing their job? I am wondering if it might be the pH. I believe I read
nitospira like high pH but nitrosomas do not. I recently raised the temp
from 78 to 85 because I have ich. I thought maybee the higher temp might
also induce growth of the nitrosomas but it had no affect.

Tank 55gal
Filter 1 penguin 330 biowheel
1 Regent 30-60 with sponges in it
Elite 802 pump/airstones for extra circulation oxygenation
Water pretty hard
pH 8.2 ( could this be the prob?)
ammona barely detectable in "safe zone".
nitrite 0
nitrate <10ppm

temp 85 (I am treating for ich)
salt 1/2 tsp gal
malachite green/formalin 1/2 dose

Population
4 clown loaches (1.25 - 1.5 inches)
2 platys
4 Zebra danios
1 female cherry barb (male died)
1 male dwarf gourami (1.25 inches)
2 juvenile pearl gouramis (1inch each)

[BigBadGourami]

btw I did remove the act carbon from the penguin while treating for ich

"BigBadGourami" > wrote in message
news:_7XLb.16483$nt4.28348@attbi_s51...
> Hi I have a question. My tank is about 3 months old. I went through
the
> cycling and everything with a very small ammonia spike a large nitrite
spike
> (10ppm). Anyways, my water consistently tests with nitrite at 0 and
ammonia
> just barely detectable and nitrate less than 10ppm. I cannot seem to get
> rid of the last bit of ammonia. My tap tested negative for chloramines.
> The LFS recommends amquel. I asked him if it would starve my biological
> filter. He said no that the ammonia would still be available for the
> bacteria. I however am still doubtful. Do any of you know if amquel will
> starve my biological filter? Can anyone tell me why my Nitrosomas are not
> doing their job? I am wondering if it might be the pH. I believe I read
> nitospira like high pH but nitrosomas do not. I recently raised the temp
> from 78 to 85 because I have ich. I thought maybee the higher temp might
> also induce growth of the nitrosomas but it had no affect.
>
> Tank 55gal
> Filter 1 penguin 330 biowheel
> 1 Regent 30-60 with sponges in it
> Elite 802 pump/airstones for extra circulation oxygenation
> Water pretty hard
> pH 8.2 ( could this be the prob?)
> ammona barely detectable in "safe zone".
> nitrite 0
> nitrate <10ppm
>
> temp 85 (I am treating for ich)
> salt 1/2 tsp gal
> malachite green/formalin 1/2 dose
>
> Population
> 4 clown loaches (1.25 - 1.5 inches)
> 2 platys
> 4 Zebra danios
> 1 female cherry barb (male died)
> 1 male dwarf gourami (1.25 inches)
> 2 juvenile pearl gouramis (1inch each)
>
>
>

[Dinky]

"BigBadGourami" > wrote in message
news:_7XLb.16483$nt4.28348@attbi_s51...
> Hi I have a question. My tank is about 3 months old. I went through
the
> cycling and everything with a very small ammonia spike a large nitrite
spike
> (10ppm). Anyways, my water consistently tests with nitrite at 0 and
ammonia


Myself, I wouldn't be concerned. You have no nitrites, and the presence of
nitrates indicates to me that the cycle is working. I, too have concerns
despite what I've heard, that Amquel removes some of the ammonia from the
cycle. I'd stop using it and watch parameters.

billy

[Dinky]

"Dinky" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "BigBadGourami" > wrote in message
> news:_7XLb.16483$nt4.28348@attbi_s51...
> > Hi I have a question. My tank is about 3 months old. I went through
> the
> > cycling and everything with a very small ammonia spike a large nitrite
> spike
> > (10ppm). Anyways, my water consistently tests with nitrite at 0 and
> ammonia
>
>
> Myself, I wouldn't be concerned. You have no nitrites, and the presence of
> nitrates indicates to me that the cycle is working. I, too have concerns
> despite what I've heard, that Amquel removes some of the ammonia from the
> cycle. I'd stop using it and watch parameters.
>
> billy
>
>

Just reread your post. No, I wouldn't use Amquel at this point, but I
*would* work to slowly bring that ph down. Do it gradually, for your fish
have likely adapted to it to some degree.

[BigBadGourami]

I have tried to bring the pH down but my water is as hard as a dimond. I
tried aging it with peat and keeping peat in the filter. There was no
noticable affect on the pH. I am thinking just leave it alone. The more I
futz with the tank it seems the more problems I have. Better a stable high
pH than a fluctating stressful low one.

"Dinky" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Dinky" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "BigBadGourami" > wrote in message
> > news:_7XLb.16483$nt4.28348@attbi_s51...
> > > Hi I have a question. My tank is about 3 months old. I went
through
> > the
> > > cycling and everything with a very small ammonia spike a large nitrite
> > spike
> > > (10ppm). Anyways, my water consistently tests with nitrite at 0 and
> > ammonia
> >
> >
> > Myself, I wouldn't be concerned. You have no nitrites, and the presence
of
> > nitrates indicates to me that the cycle is working. I, too have concerns
> > despite what I've heard, that Amquel removes some of the ammonia from
the
> > cycle. I'd stop using it and watch parameters.
> >
> > billy
> >
> >
>
> Just reread your post. No, I wouldn't use Amquel at this point, but I
> *would* work to slowly bring that ph down. Do it gradually, for your fish
> have likely adapted to it to some degree.
>
>

[Dinky]

"BigBadGourami" > wrote in message
news:pKYLb.16535$sv6.47649@attbi_s52...
> I have tried to bring the pH down but my water is as hard as a dimond. I
> tried aging it with peat and keeping peat in the filter. There was no
> noticable affect on the pH. I am thinking just leave it alone. The more
I
> futz with the tank it seems the more problems I have. Better a stable
high
> pH than a fluctating stressful low one.
>

True, very true.

[NetMax]

"BigBadGourami" > wrote in message
news:_7XLb.16483$nt4.28348@attbi_s51...
> Hi I have a question. My tank is about 3 months old. I went through
the
> cycling and everything with a very small ammonia spike a large nitrite
spike
> (10ppm). Anyways, my water consistently tests with nitrite at 0 and
ammonia
> just barely detectable and nitrate less than 10ppm. I cannot seem to
get
> rid of the last bit of ammonia. My tap tested negative for
chloramines.
> The LFS recommends amquel. I asked him if it would starve my
biological
> filter. He said no that the ammonia would still be available for the
> bacteria. I however am still doubtful. Do any of you know if amquel
will
> starve my biological filter? Can anyone tell me why my Nitrosomas are
not
> doing their job? I am wondering if it might be the pH. I believe I
read
> nitospira like high pH but nitrosomas do not. I recently raised the
temp
> from 78 to 85 because I have ich. I thought maybee the higher temp
might
> also induce growth of the nitrosomas but it had no affect.
>
> Tank 55gal
> Filter 1 penguin 330 biowheel
> 1 Regent 30-60 with sponges in it
> Elite 802 pump/airstones for extra circulation oxygenation
> Water pretty hard
> pH 8.2 ( could this be the prob?)
> ammona barely detectable in "safe zone".
> nitrite 0
> nitrate <10ppm
>
> temp 85 (I am treating for ich)
> salt 1/2 tsp gal
> malachite green/formalin 1/2 dose
>
> Population
> 4 clown loaches (1.25 - 1.5 inches)
> 2 platys
> 4 Zebra danios
> 1 female cherry barb (male died)
> 1 male dwarf gourami (1.25 inches)
> 2 juvenile pearl gouramis (1inch each)

AFAIK, Amquel changes NH3 to NH4, which is still consumed by bacteria. A
pH of 8.2 would have no bad effects on nitrifying bacteria (you need to
get below 6.5pH to effect them). Some of your fish will labour in 8.2pH,
and may or may not adapt. If there no other stressors, chances are good
that they will adapt, but some might not prosper as well as they would
have. From your description, is it possible that your trace NH3 is from
municipal chloramine water treatment? It sounds like your tank is
already cycled.

NetMax

[james mitchell]

"BigBadGourami" > wrote in message
news:_7XLb.16483$nt4.28348@attbi_s51...
> Hi I have a question. My tank is about 3 months old. I went through
the
> cycling and everything with a very small ammonia spike a large nitrite
spike
> (10ppm). Anyways, my water consistently tests with nitrite at 0 and
ammonia
> just barely detectable and nitrate less than 10ppm. I cannot seem to get
> rid of the last bit of ammonia. My tap tested negative for chloramines.
> The LFS recommends amquel. I asked him if it would starve my biological
> filter. He said no that the ammonia would still be available for the
> bacteria. I however am still doubtful. Do any of you know if amquel will
> starve my biological filter? Can anyone tell me why my Nitrosomas are not
> doing their job? I am wondering if it might be the pH. I believe I read
> nitospira like high pH but nitrosomas do not. I recently raised the temp
> from 78 to 85 because I have ich. I thought maybee the higher temp might
> also induce growth of the nitrosomas but it had no affect.
>

Are you using a Salisylate based ammonia test? If you are using a Nessler
based ammonia test, the Amquel will cause a false ammonia presence.

Also, if a water supply has chloramines and you do the ammonia test
relatively soon after a partial water change, the test (Nessler or
Salisylate) will show ammonia presence. This doesn't apply if your water
only contains chlorine.

My water supply contains chloramines and I am using Amquel plus. I use the
Aq. Pharm Freshwater/Sal****er ammonia test kit. I get a zero ammonia
reading the next day after a partial water change.

Jim

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Will amquel starve bacteria??
>From: "BigBadGourami"
>Date: 1/10/2004 1:52 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <pKYLb.16535$sv6.47649@attbi_s52>
>
>I have tried to bring the pH down but my water is as hard as a dimond. I
>tried aging it with peat and keeping peat in the filter. There was no
>noticable affect on the pH. I am thinking just leave it alone. The more I
>futz with the tank it seems the more problems I have. Better a stable high
>pH than a fluctating stressful low one.
>

(snipped)
Yes! It is MUCH better to have a stable pH than a bouncing one.
Most fish can adapt well to a high pH.
The only time you really need to mess with it is for breeding fish that reply
on a certain pH for spawning.