Injured adult black angel

[Robert Flory]

I have a 55 gallon planted tank with two adult black angel fish, 3 middle
sized striped angels, a few platys I haven't gotten around to catching and
moving with the rest of my wife's platys, several ottos, 3 2.5 Siamese
algae eaters (I trust my LFS, they are not Chinese or etc), one 4.5" bristle
nose and one 2.5" bristle nose.

I discovered the larger of my two black angels has a large fresh lens shaped
wound on its side. It looks an awful lot like the shape of my big bristle
nose pleco. Nothing else in the tank has a mouth that big or that shape.
I've moved the angel to a 10 gallon tank for preventive treatment ... hoping
to reduce chances of infection. It seems to be doing well and is eating

Anyone else ever have problems with bristle noses attacking other fish? One
of the smaller angels lost half of a dorsal fin some weeks ago. The two
blacks occasionally get a bit aggressive but generally just beat up on each
other. Other than that I haven't had any trouble since I moved the blacks
out of my other 55 which has a breeding pair of angels that won't tolerate
other angels.

Bob

[NetMax]

"Robert Flory" > wrote in message
...
> I have a 55 gallon planted tank with two adult black angel fish, 3
middle
> sized striped angels, a few platys I haven't gotten around to catching
and
> moving with the rest of my wife's platys, several ottos, 3 2.5 Siamese
> algae eaters (I trust my LFS, they are not Chinese or etc), one 4.5"
bristle
> nose and one 2.5" bristle nose.
>
> I discovered the larger of my two black angels has a large fresh lens
shaped
> wound on its side. It looks an awful lot like the shape of my big
bristle
> nose pleco. Nothing else in the tank has a mouth that big or that
shape.
> I've moved the angel to a 10 gallon tank for preventive treatment ...
hoping
> to reduce chances of infection. It seems to be doing well and is
eating
>
> Anyone else ever have problems with bristle noses attacking other fish?
One
> of the smaller angels lost half of a dorsal fin some weeks ago. The
two
> blacks occasionally get a bit aggressive but generally just beat up on
each
> other. Other than that I haven't had any trouble since I moved the
blacks
> out of my other 55 which has a breeding pair of angels that won't
tolerate
> other angels.
>
> Bob

There are many plecos which will attach to the side of a fish and scrape
out a significant amount of tissue. Vampire plecs in particular have
this reputation, but it's not limited to them. The bristlenose don't
have the reputation, but are they well fed? Typically, I provide all my
plecos 5 things, i) algae (whatever is growing), ii) algae wafers
(quantity depends on what algae is available, typically added every 2 or
3 days), iii) fresh veggies (pealed weighed zucchini slices works best
for me, once a week), iv) driftwood (required so they can scrape fibres
off and clean out their intestines), and v) shelter (many are nocturnal,
and without shelter would get too anxious and ill-tempered).

For your Angel aggression (and maybe the Bristles too), try lowering your
temperature. Another possibility, if the Bristles are getting a lot of
Angelfish food (ie: bloodworms), then they are being trained towards a
meatier high-protein diet (ie: fish), so ymmv. This is sometimes done
with Oscars (and other large cichlids) & Bala sharks. Fish raised on
meat become more aggressive. Carnivores like Bettas and Piranhas are not
known for their friendly dispositions ;~).

Check your Bristle's belly (should be flat or bulging out). If full,
then I'd be putting some driftwood in (if you don't already have some,
and it's being used), and then work on diet. The problem will be that
you need to undo his habit, which is harder than preventing it, but like
I said, Bristles don't have the reputation.

NetMax

[Jim Morcombe]

I think you are on the wrong track.

The wound may be the size and shape of the Bristlenose, but a Bristlenose
attack is about the last think I would suspect. It is more likely to be
another angel or some infection.

For some reason I can't understand, most of the wounds I get on my angels
are what you call "lens shape". Perhaps this is due from ulceration after
the event.

Although a Bristlenose can move like lightning when they want to, I can't
see an Angel staying still long enough for the Bristlenose to get a grip on
the Angel.

Although Bristlenoses are tough little guys, they never bother anything else
except to chase them away from food or their territory. They don't use
their mouths at all when chasing other fish, but just but them with their
noses.

In particular, Angels and Bristlenoses tend to like different areas of the
tanks so thet don't even upset each other's territorial boundaries.

Angels will sometimes munch on the Bristlenose's food, whether it be algae
pellets or vegies. Likewise bristlenoses will sometimes have a munch on
Shrimp Pelets or other sinking pellets that some Angels like - but this is
the only time there is ever any conflict. The conflict is always resolved
by the Bristlenose chasing the Angel away.

Jim


NetMax > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Flory" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have a 55 gallon planted tank with two adult black angel fish, 3
> middle
> > sized striped angels, a few platys I haven't gotten around to catching
> and
> > moving with the rest of my wife's platys, several ottos, 3 2.5 Siamese
> > algae eaters (I trust my LFS, they are not Chinese or etc), one 4.5"
> bristle
> > nose and one 2.5" bristle nose.
> >
> > I discovered the larger of my two black angels has a large fresh lens
> shaped
> > wound on its side. It looks an awful lot like the shape of my big
> bristle
> > nose pleco. Nothing else in the tank has a mouth that big or that
> shape.
> > I've moved the angel to a 10 gallon tank for preventive treatment ...
> hoping
> > to reduce chances of infection. It seems to be doing well and is
> eating
> >
> > Anyone else ever have problems with bristle noses attacking other fish?
> One
> > of the smaller angels lost half of a dorsal fin some weeks ago. The
> two
> > blacks occasionally get a bit aggressive but generally just beat up on
> each
> > other. Other than that I haven't had any trouble since I moved the
> blacks
> > out of my other 55 which has a breeding pair of angels that won't
> tolerate
> > other angels.
> >
> > Bob
>
> There are many plecos which will attach to the side of a fish and scrape
> out a significant amount of tissue. Vampire plecs in particular have
> this reputation, but it's not limited to them. The bristlenose don't
> have the reputation, but are they well fed? Typically, I provide all my
> plecos 5 things, i) algae (whatever is growing), ii) algae wafers
> (quantity depends on what algae is available, typically added every 2 or
> 3 days), iii) fresh veggies (pealed weighed zucchini slices works best
> for me, once a week), iv) driftwood (required so they can scrape fibres
> off and clean out their intestines), and v) shelter (many are nocturnal,
> and without shelter would get too anxious and ill-tempered).
>
> For your Angel aggression (and maybe the Bristles too), try lowering your
> temperature. Another possibility, if the Bristles are getting a lot of
> Angelfish food (ie: bloodworms), then they are being trained towards a
> meatier high-protein diet (ie: fish), so ymmv. This is sometimes done
> with Oscars (and other large cichlids) & Bala sharks. Fish raised on
> meat become more aggressive. Carnivores like Bettas and Piranhas are not
> known for their friendly dispositions ;~).
>
> Check your Bristle's belly (should be flat or bulging out). If full,
> then I'd be putting some driftwood in (if you don't already have some,
> and it's being used), and then work on diet. The problem will be that
> you need to undo his habit, which is harder than preventing it, but like
> I said, Bristles don't have the reputation.
>
> NetMax
>
>

[Robert Flory]

"Jim Morcombe" > wrote in message
...
> I think you are on the wrong track.
>
> The wound may be the size and shape of the Bristlenose, but a Bristlenose
> attack is about the last think I would suspect. It is more likely to be
> another angel or some infection.
>
SNIP

You are probably right, the area trippled in size over night. Lost the
angel, despite medicating.
Bob

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Injured adult black angel
>From: "Jim Morcombe"
>Date: 1/14/2004 10:11 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>I think you are on the wrong track.
>
>The wound may be the size and shape of the Bristlenose, but a Bristlenose
>attack is about the last think I would suspect. It is more likely to be
>another angel or some infection.
>
>For some reason I can't understand, most of the wounds I get on my angels
>are what you call "lens shape". Perhaps this is due from ulceration after
>the event.
>
>Although a Bristlenose can move like lightning when they want to, I can't
>see an Angel staying still long enough for the Bristlenose to get a grip on
>the Angel.
>
>Although Bristlenoses are tough little guys, they never bother anything else
>except to chase them away from food or their territory. They don't use
>their mouths at all when chasing other fish, but just but them with their
>noses.
>
>In particular, Angels and Bristlenoses tend to like different areas of the
>tanks so thet don't even upset each other's territorial boundaries.
>
>Angels will sometimes munch on the Bristlenose's food, whether it be algae
>pellets or vegies. Likewise bristlenoses will sometimes have a munch on
>Shrimp Pelets or other sinking pellets that some Angels like - but this is
>the only time there is ever any conflict. The conflict is always resolved
>by the Bristlenose chasing the Angel away.
>
>Jim

Have you given thought of Fish TB?
One of the major signs are open lesions.

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Injured adult black angel
>From: "Robert Flory"
>Date: 1/16/2004 8:53 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Jim Morcombe" > wrote in message
...
>> I think you are on the wrong track.
>>
>> The wound may be the size and shape of the Bristlenose, but a Bristlenose
>> attack is about the last think I would suspect. It is more likely to be
>> another angel or some infection.
>>
>SNIP
>
>You are probably right, the area trippled in size over night. Lost the
>angel, despite medicating.
>Bob
>
>

Besides the posiblity of it being fish TB, I think there's one other disease
that has open lesions as a symptom.
Anyone know what that may be or if I'm just goofing it up and it's TB?

[coelacanth]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Injured adult black angel
> >From: "Robert Flory"
> >Date: 1/16/2004 8:53 PM Central Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"Jim Morcombe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I think you are on the wrong track.
> >>
> >> The wound may be the size and shape of the Bristlenose, but a
Bristlenose
> >> attack is about the last think I would suspect. It is more likely to
be
> >> another angel or some infection.
> >>
> >SNIP
> >
> >You are probably right, the area trippled in size over night. Lost the
> >angel, despite medicating.
> >Bob
> >
> >
>
> Besides the posiblity of it being fish TB, I think there's one other
disease
> that has open lesions as a symptom.
> Anyone know what that may be or if I'm just goofing it up and it's TB?

I *think* that angels can get hole-in-the-head disease
which might produce this kind of lesion... I think I had
a case many years ago in one of my largest breeders, a
double veil zebra angel (sob).

-coelacanth

[NetMax]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Injured adult black angel
> >From: "Robert Flory"
> >Date: 1/16/2004 8:53 PM Central Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"Jim Morcombe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I think you are on the wrong track.
> >>
> >> The wound may be the size and shape of the Bristlenose, but a
Bristlenose
> >> attack is about the last think I would suspect. It is more likely
to be
> >> another angel or some infection.
> >>
> >SNIP
> >
> >You are probably right, the area trippled in size over night. Lost
the
> >angel, despite medicating.
> >Bob
> >
> >
>
> Besides the posiblity of it being fish TB, I think there's one other
disease
> that has open lesions as a symptom.
> Anyone know what that may be or if I'm just goofing it up and it's TB?

From my research, TB shows up in a wide variety of symptoms, including
skin ulcers. Another possibility is heater burn, but as the area tripled
in size and overtook the fish, it sounds like one of those flesh-eating
bacteria. I've seen nasty pictures of this, but I can't say much about
treatment. Many of my fish medical books do a good job, but I'd need
connections with a pharmacy, and lessons on how to pronounce half the
names they talk about. The medications you buy over the counter
(especially in the UK) are somewhat lacking, and simply dumping it in the
water is usually insufficient (you need to do dips, and swap the wound,
medicated foods etc).

NetMax