Re: Question about Aquarium Mishap

[san]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:24:29 GMT, "san" >
wrote:

>Hi to all, new to group but not to aquariums.
>
>I have had at least one aquarium most my life. My first when I was
>young (1970's), had a back filter that you used flex tubing to suck
>the air out of the uplift tube. During the 80's I owned 9 tanks - 10g
>to 55g.
>I took a few years off after my husband accidentally killed my
beloved
>fancy goldfish by putting them from the styrofoam box that I used to
>bring them with on a 1000 mile relocation move into a 50 gallon tub
>(bought at a farm store that was suppose to be used for watering live
>stock) that had not sat long enough for the chlorine to dissipate. We
>had lived out in the sticks and had the best well water for 15 years
>and never had to worry about chemicals. My husband didn't understand
>why I told him to wait and just dumped my babies (had for 6 years)
>into the tub, they all went belly up instantly. I was crushed.
>
>Anyway to the now: I just started up a 29g, been running for 3
months.
>It went through the cycle and was doing fantastic. While I was at
work
>my hubby once again thought he would help me out :-0
>My back filter was clogged and he ran it under tap water and stuck it
>back in like he saw me do dozens of times when we had well water. He
>wiped out all the bacteria and my water is a mess the ammonia was off
>the scale last Monday and nitrite was good. I have never been in this
>spot before. I spent hours googling and became confused with all the
>stuff I found in the archives, I did a 5 gal. water change for 4 days
>and skipped yesterday. My ammonia is now at 3.0 and the nitrite is up
>to .3 mg/l. My tank is stocked with:
>5 rummy nose
>5 various danios
>4 cherry barbs
>1 cat (can't remember name)
>
>My husband went out and bought me another 29 gal aquarium today so in
>a few days I will be able to move a few of the fish out. None of
local
>fish stores would take any of them. So I am running on a prayer right
>now.
>Questions are: Should I continue the water changes on a daily basis
or
>how often? Is a 5 gal. partial daily to much? not enough? I have
taken
>some gravel from a well established 10 gal. and have it sitting in a
>nylon in the tank. Is there any other ideas anyone can give me that
>might help speed up the cycle on this tank?
>
>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :-)
>
>San
>


Thanks much to those that responded to my call for help.

But it spawned some new questions.

I have been using Stress Coat to remove chlorine,etc. Being old
school - it's hard for me to swallow that these chemicals can be
removed instantly. I have been letting the bucket set for 2 hours with
an air stone prior to water change. Back in da day (70's) I would let
the buckets set overnight with the conditioner added before the water
changes. Do you all instantly change the water from tap or have
waiting period? How long wait? Is Stress Coat a good product / which
is the best?

The BioSpira sounds like a good bet. The store that is suppose to
carry it is a good hour away. They are closed on Sunday's and I won't
get a chance to go over there till Tuesday (day off), I will use this
on the new 29 gal tank. Regretfully it will not do me any good as I
have already used Ammo lock 2 in the older tank so it won't work
there. I will use my old filter in my ten gal. for additional seed.
What about the product Stress Zymes? My PH is at 7.0 is the Ammo lock
working? How many partials till the Ammo lock is gone?

I have been feeding only what can be consumed in a minute or two every
other day since the incident. I will go and purchase some plants for
the tank - Hornwort and Java Fern on my list. Back in da day I thought
a tank had to be well established to keep plants alive? What about
potted plants? I usually draw up the gravel to remove debris when
doing partials does it hurt to uproot rooters so as to clean the
gravel? How do you control snail population from the live plants?

I will start doing the 10 gal twice a day partials for a few days and
see how that goes before I try a drastic 70%.

Thanks again,
San

[Gordon]

San,

I am a newbie and my tank has only been cycled for about 2 weeks, so I am
sure that other more experienced folks will have better suggestions, anyhow
here's my thoughts.

During the cycling my LFS introduced me to two things, the first he called
"Polyester Blocks" these are as the name suggests blocks of Polyester
although they are impregnated with something which makes them quite stiff.
Anyhow he gave me two of these (rather sold them to me for £3 each!)
Apparently they help to soak up the "nasties." He said to put the first in
then two days later to put the other in. You leave them in until they are a
deep mahogany colour. (They simply float around in the meantime.) The fish
seemed to respond positively after the first day, looking brighter and
happier.

The other thing he sold me was a bottle of Stress Zyme, now this is a trade
name, so I am sure it will be called something different over there, but it
is basically a concentrated solution of the desirable nitrifying bacteria.
He advised to dose the tank immediately, and to add it to any of the water
you add during any water changes, (according to the recommended dosage) and
then to dose the tank again when the ammonia drops to zero. Thereby
introducing "fresh" bacteria for the rapid formation of the second lot of
bacteria to consume the nitrites. From reading the many posts here and at a
few other forums, NG's etc. I have heard of a US product called something
like Bio-Spira which sounds like it is a similar thing. It was mentioned in
reference to "fishless cycling" so I am not sure if it is safe to use in a
tank which already contains fish or not, but I am sure a google search will
give you all the info you need. They talk about being able to add fish
within 24 hours, so you could potentially cycle your new tank in a day or
two and then move the fish to it, until you get the original sorted out
again.

Anyway, as I said, I'm no specialist and these are simply my thoughts, I'm
sorry to hear of your recent experiences and having just cycled, symphathise
with you and your fish!

Gordon

"san" > wrote in message
.com...
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:24:29 GMT, "san" >
> wrote:
>
> >Hi to all, new to group but not to aquariums.
> >
> >I have had at least one aquarium most my life. My first when I was
> >young (1970's), had a back filter that you used flex tubing to suck
> >the air out of the uplift tube. During the 80's I owned 9 tanks - 10g
> >to 55g.
> >I took a few years off after my husband accidentally killed my
> beloved
> >fancy goldfish by putting them from the styrofoam box that I used to
> >bring them with on a 1000 mile relocation move into a 50 gallon tub
> >(bought at a farm store that was suppose to be used for watering live
> >stock) that had not sat long enough for the chlorine to dissipate. We
> >had lived out in the sticks and had the best well water for 15 years
> >and never had to worry about chemicals. My husband didn't understand
> >why I told him to wait and just dumped my babies (had for 6 years)
> >into the tub, they all went belly up instantly. I was crushed.
> >
> >Anyway to the now: I just started up a 29g, been running for 3
> months.
> >It went through the cycle and was doing fantastic. While I was at
> work
> >my hubby once again thought he would help me out :-0
> >My back filter was clogged and he ran it under tap water and stuck it
> >back in like he saw me do dozens of times when we had well water. He
> >wiped out all the bacteria and my water is a mess the ammonia was off
> >the scale last Monday and nitrite was good. I have never been in this
> >spot before. I spent hours googling and became confused with all the
> >stuff I found in the archives, I did a 5 gal. water change for 4 days
> >and skipped yesterday. My ammonia is now at 3.0 and the nitrite is up
> >to .3 mg/l. My tank is stocked with:
> >5 rummy nose
> >5 various danios
> >4 cherry barbs
> >1 cat (can't remember name)
> >
> >My husband went out and bought me another 29 gal aquarium today so in
> >a few days I will be able to move a few of the fish out. None of
> local
> >fish stores would take any of them. So I am running on a prayer right
> >now.
> >Questions are: Should I continue the water changes on a daily basis
> or
> >how often? Is a 5 gal. partial daily to much? not enough? I have
> taken
> >some gravel from a well established 10 gal. and have it sitting in a
> >nylon in the tank. Is there any other ideas anyone can give me that
> >might help speed up the cycle on this tank?
> >
> >Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :-)
> >
> >San
> >
>
>
> Thanks much to those that responded to my call for help.
>
> But it spawned some new questions.
>
> I have been using Stress Coat to remove chlorine,etc. Being old
> school - it's hard for me to swallow that these chemicals can be
> removed instantly. I have been letting the bucket set for 2 hours with
> an air stone prior to water change. Back in da day (70's) I would let
> the buckets set overnight with the conditioner added before the water
> changes. Do you all instantly change the water from tap or have
> waiting period? How long wait? Is Stress Coat a good product / which
> is the best?
>
> The BioSpira sounds like a good bet. The store that is suppose to
> carry it is a good hour away. They are closed on Sunday's and I won't
> get a chance to go over there till Tuesday (day off), I will use this
> on the new 29 gal tank. Regretfully it will not do me any good as I
> have already used Ammo lock 2 in the older tank so it won't work
> there. I will use my old filter in my ten gal. for additional seed.
> What about the product Stress Zymes? My PH is at 7.0 is the Ammo lock
> working? How many partials till the Ammo lock is gone?
>
> I have been feeding only what can be consumed in a minute or two every
> other day since the incident. I will go and purchase some plants for
> the tank - Hornwort and Java Fern on my list. Back in da day I thought
> a tank had to be well established to keep plants alive? What about
> potted plants? I usually draw up the gravel to remove debris when
> doing partials does it hurt to uproot rooters so as to clean the
> gravel? How do you control snail population from the live plants?
>
> I will start doing the 10 gal twice a day partials for a few days and
> see how that goes before I try a drastic 70%.
>
> Thanks again,
> San
>
>

[NetMax]

"san" > wrote in message
.com...
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:24:29 GMT, "san" >
> wrote:
>
> >Hi to all, new to group but not to aquariums.
> >
> >I have had at least one aquarium most my life. My first when I was
> >young (1970's), had a back filter that you used flex tubing to suck
> >the air out of the uplift tube. During the 80's I owned 9 tanks - 10g
> >to 55g.
> >I took a few years off after my husband accidentally killed my
> beloved
> >fancy goldfish by putting them from the styrofoam box that I used to
> >bring them with on a 1000 mile relocation move into a 50 gallon tub
> >(bought at a farm store that was suppose to be used for watering live
> >stock) that had not sat long enough for the chlorine to dissipate. We
> >had lived out in the sticks and had the best well water for 15 years
> >and never had to worry about chemicals. My husband didn't understand
> >why I told him to wait and just dumped my babies (had for 6 years)
> >into the tub, they all went belly up instantly. I was crushed.
> >
> >Anyway to the now: I just started up a 29g, been running for 3
> months.
> >It went through the cycle and was doing fantastic. While I was at
> work
> >my hubby once again thought he would help me out :-0
> >My back filter was clogged and he ran it under tap water and stuck it
> >back in like he saw me do dozens of times when we had well water. He
> >wiped out all the bacteria and my water is a mess the ammonia was off
> >the scale last Monday and nitrite was good. I have never been in this
> >spot before. I spent hours googling and became confused with all the
> >stuff I found in the archives, I did a 5 gal. water change for 4 days
> >and skipped yesterday. My ammonia is now at 3.0 and the nitrite is up
> >to .3 mg/l. My tank is stocked with:
> >5 rummy nose
> >5 various danios
> >4 cherry barbs
> >1 cat (can't remember name)
> >
> >My husband went out and bought me another 29 gal aquarium today so in
> >a few days I will be able to move a few of the fish out. None of
> local
> >fish stores would take any of them. So I am running on a prayer right
> >now.
> >Questions are: Should I continue the water changes on a daily basis
> or
> >how often? Is a 5 gal. partial daily to much? not enough? I have
> taken
> >some gravel from a well established 10 gal. and have it sitting in a
> >nylon in the tank. Is there any other ideas anyone can give me that
> >might help speed up the cycle on this tank?
> >
> >Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :-)
> >
> >San
> >
>
>
> Thanks much to those that responded to my call for help.
>
> But it spawned some new questions.
>
> I have been using Stress Coat to remove chlorine,etc. Being old
> school - it's hard for me to swallow that these chemicals can be
> removed instantly. I have been letting the bucket set for 2 hours with
> an air stone prior to water change. Back in da day (70's) I would let
> the buckets set overnight with the conditioner added before the water
> changes. Do you all instantly change the water from tap or have
> waiting period? How long wait? Is Stress Coat a good product / which
> is the best?

If you are treating for chlorine or chloramine, the manufacturer told me
that it takes about 10 minutes to work in circulating water. They
recommend adding the de-chlor directly into the tank, corresponding to
the amount of water you are about to put in. The active molecules will
float around until they bump into the bound monochloramines (or whatever
your municipality uses). Chlorine will evaporate from an aerated body of
water in about 24 hours. Chloramine does not.

Letting your buckets sit might still be a good idea, especially if the
size of the water change increases, or if your water has a lot of
dissolved gases in it (especially well-water). River water needs no
aging (just warming up ;~), but few of us are fortunate enough to have
directly drawn river water available for our fish.

Stress coat is AFAIK a very good product, however they all do the
function exactly as described (de-chlorination), plus they add slime
coat, some detoxify heavy metals, and some even lock down NH3.

> The BioSpira sounds like a good bet. The store that is suppose to
> carry it is a good hour away. They are closed on Sunday's and I won't
> get a chance to go over there till Tuesday (day off), I will use this
> on the new 29 gal tank. Regretfully it will not do me any good as I
> have already used Ammo lock 2 in the older tank so it won't work
> there. I will use my old filter in my ten gal. for additional seed.
> What about the product Stress Zymes? My PH is at 7.0 is the Ammo lock
> working? How many partials till the Ammo lock is gone?

Whew, a few questions there. Where can I send my bill? ;~) BioSpira and
any other bacteria starter should AFAIK work equally well on NH4
(ammonium ions) or on NH3 (ammonia). Ammo lock converts toxic NH3 to
non-toxic NH4, but it is still available for consumption by bacteria. If
you already have an established (cycled) 10g running, then moving your
10g filter (or just its dirty media) to your 29g should have you cycled
very quickly. At pH 7.0, I think most of your ammonia is actually
ammonium, so your Ammo-lock will only be working on any remaining NH3.

> I have been feeding only what can be consumed in a minute or two every
> other day since the incident. I will go and purchase some plants for
> the tank - Hornwort and Java Fern on my list. Back in da day I thought
> a tank had to be well established to keep plants alive? What about
> potted plants? I usually draw up the gravel to remove debris when
> doing partials does it hurt to uproot rooters so as to clean the
> gravel? How do you control snail population from the live plants?

You can also look for Pennywort and Frogbit (they feed off of the water
column, so would be working for you fast, like Hornwort). You do not
gravel vacuum close to rotted plants. Plants stay alive when their needs
are met (ie: strong light & nutrients), and ammonia is fertilizer ;~)
What about potted plants? Typically, potted plants which are sold in the
LFS need to be re-planted or they become root-bound. You can certainly
plant them in your own pots, but I find that too small a pot tends to
sufficate them.

If I knew how to control snails, I wouldn't have a million of them in my
plant tank ;~) Seriously, you can use mechanical, chemical or natural
means. Mechanical is just that, crush them, clean the tank and kill them
all, physically remove each one. Chemical includes Snail-a-cide or
Snail-a-way (or something like that). They use copper as the agent which
kills the snails, but at too high a dosage, it also kills the fish.
Consequently, I think they have watered down the products, so it doesn't
kill anything at all (snails seem oblivious to it, at least all mine
are). A bleech dip (1:20 water), is useful for dipping plants, though I
don't know how effective it is against all types of snails, and many
plants don't take well to too long a dip). Natural means includes making
the environment too inhospitable (heat, salt etc) which can also kill
your fish or plants. Another method is to use lures (dropping lettuce in
the night before and discarding in the morning). Sometimes reducing the
food supply get their population under control. Lastly, keep fish which
eat snail eggs (many do this), or that like to eat snails (puffers, many
loaches like the Clown loach, many cichlids, etc).

> I will start doing the 10 gal twice a day partials for a few days and
> see how that goes before I try a drastic 70%.

Yes, while 70% is drastic, some conditions warrant it. At your rate
though, I don't think it will come to that. You seem to be doing the
right things, and at the very least, asking good questions ;~)

NetMax

> Thanks again,
> San
>
>