Otocinclus affinis

[David J. Braunegg]

I am considering getting one or more Otocinclus affinis for my 10 gallon
tank.

Will enough algae grow in my tank to feed them, or will I need to
supplement with other food? (I do grow green algae on the glass and
castle structure, as well as some brown algae on the glass at the gravel
line. The green is growing less quickly now that I've cut back on my
lighting.)

If I need supplemental food, will the Oto's eat fish flakes, or do I
need specific food for them?

The books and web pages I've consulted say that Oto's are not schooling
fish, but a search of this newsgroup found a discussion from 1992 that
mentioned that Oto's should be kept in schools. Which is right? How
many should I have for my tank?

Thanks,
Dave

[Andy Hill]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote:
>I am considering getting one or more Otocinclus affinis for my 10 gallon
>tank.
>
>Will enough algae grow in my tank to feed them, or will I need to
>supplement with other food? (I do grow green algae on the glass and
>castle structure, as well as some brown algae on the glass at the gravel
>line. The green is growing less quickly now that I've cut back on my
>lighting.)
>
>If I need supplemental food, will the Oto's eat fish flakes, or do I
>need specific food for them?
>
>The books and web pages I've consulted say that Oto's are not schooling
>fish, but a search of this newsgroup found a discussion from 1992 that
>mentioned that Oto's should be kept in schools. Which is right? How
>many should I have for my tank?
>
Otos don't eat much. I have 6 in my 30 gallon, and I have to clean off the
viewing surfaces every couple of weeks because the otos have only cleaned off
small streaks on the glass. I've never known them to touch fish flakes...they
just chow down on the algae.

While I wouldn't call them "schooling" fish, mine do like to hide out in the
same spot during the day (they're most active in the evening and night). I'd
think 3 in a 10 gallon would be a reasonable minimum (more wouldn't hurt...since
they're just eating "food" that's already growing in the tank, they're not a big
load on the biocycle).

[RedForeman ©®]

Otos really don't do much for green algae, but the brown stuff really makes
their day... too bad you can't 'grow' brown alage.... you can, but it's a
pain...

I've got 4 in a 29, they get algae pellets and shrimp pellets

--
RedForeman ©®
oh, and BTW, herman is gay....


"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
...
> I am considering getting one or more Otocinclus affinis for my 10 gallon
> tank.
>
> Will enough algae grow in my tank to feed them, or will I need to
> supplement with other food? (I do grow green algae on the glass and
> castle structure, as well as some brown algae on the glass at the gravel
> line. The green is growing less quickly now that I've cut back on my
> lighting.)
>
> If I need supplemental food, will the Oto's eat fish flakes, or do I
> need specific food for them?
>
> The books and web pages I've consulted say that Oto's are not schooling
> fish, but a search of this newsgroup found a discussion from 1992 that
> mentioned that Oto's should be kept in schools. Which is right? How
> many should I have for my tank?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave

[Eric Schreiber]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote:

>I am considering getting one or more Otocinclus affinis for
>my 10 gallon tank.

Get more. If your luck with them is anything like mine, a large number
of them will die early on. I've quit buying them altogether because
their high mortality rate frustrates me.

>Will enough algae grow in my tank to feed them, or will I need to
>supplement with other food?

Depends on your algae conditions, but you might consider having some
algae wafers on stand-by, just in case.

>The books and web pages I've consulted say that Oto's are not schooling
>fish, but a search of this newsgroup found a discussion from 1992 that
>mentioned that Oto's should be kept in schools. Which is right? How
>many should I have for my tank?

The ones I've kept have never 'schooled', per se, but they did tend to
hang out in groups.

--
www.ericschreiber.com

[Joe Smith]

I heard that these fish are like leaches and the CAE and when there is
no food they suck on the fish? is this true?

TIA

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:08:32 -0500, "David J. Braunegg"
> wrote:

>I am considering getting one or more Otocinclus affinis for my 10 gallon
>tank.
>
>Will enough algae grow in my tank to feed them, or will I need to
>supplement with other food? (I do grow green algae on the glass and
>castle structure, as well as some brown algae on the glass at the gravel
>line. The green is growing less quickly now that I've cut back on my
>lighting.)
>
>If I need supplemental food, will the Oto's eat fish flakes, or do I
>need specific food for them?
>
>The books and web pages I've consulted say that Oto's are not schooling
>fish, but a search of this newsgroup found a discussion from 1992 that
>mentioned that Oto's should be kept in schools. Which is right? How
>many should I have for my tank?
>
>Thanks,
>Dave

[Michi Henning]

"Joe Smith" > wrote in message
...
> I heard that these fish are like leaches and the CAE and when there is
> no food they suck on the fish? is this true?

In my experience, not true. Very occasionally, one of my Ottos might
have a quick suck on one of my Ancistrus, but simply by mistake, not
by design. One tiny move from the Ancistrus, and the Otto moves
aside. They are very peaceful, lively, and hard-working fish and really
help to keep algae in check. I'd recommend them for just about
any tropical tank (other than a cichlid, Lake Malawi/Tanganyika
type tank, of course).

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

[Andy Hill]

Joe Smith > wrote:
>I heard that these fish are like leaches and the CAE and when there is
>no food they suck on the fish? is this true?
>
That behavior is very rare in otos -- they're very retiring fish. CAEs, on the
other hand, have a bad rep in that regard. Don't confuse the two species.

[RedForeman ©®]

that reputation is earned by the CAE, not the oto... in my opinion, Otos are
a great fish

--
RedForeman ©®



"Joe Smith" > wrote in message
...
> I heard that these fish are like leaches and the CAE and when there is
> no food they suck on the fish? is this true?
>
> TIA
>
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:08:32 -0500, "David J. Braunegg"
> > wrote:
>
> >I am considering getting one or more Otocinclus affinis for my 10 gallon
> >tank.
> >
> >Will enough algae grow in my tank to feed them, or will I need to
> >supplement with other food? (I do grow green algae on the glass and
> >castle structure, as well as some brown algae on the glass at the gravel
> >line. The green is growing less quickly now that I've cut back on my
> >lighting.)
> >
> >If I need supplemental food, will the Oto's eat fish flakes, or do I
> >need specific food for them?
> >
> >The books and web pages I've consulted say that Oto's are not schooling
> >fish, but a search of this newsgroup found a discussion from 1992 that
> >mentioned that Oto's should be kept in schools. Which is right? How
> >many should I have for my tank?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Dave
>

[David J. Braunegg]

"RedForeman =A9=AE" wrote:
> =

> Otos really don't do much for green algae, but the brown stuff really m=
akes
> their day... too bad you can't 'grow' brown alage.... you can, but it's=
a
> pain...

Is it really true that Otos only eat brown algae? Every time I've read
the words "algae eater", I've always assumed green algae. I do have
some brown algae on the glass and on the gravel, but I was hoping to get
the Otos to take care of the green algae growing on the glass (green
dots) and structure (green fuzzy).

If the Otos don't eat the green stuff, I may just stay with manual
cleaning.

Is there any harm having brown algae on the gravel, or should I do
something to clean it up?


Eric Schreiber wrote:
> =

> >I am considering getting one or more Otocinclus affinis for
> =

> Get more. If your luck with them is anything like mine, a large number
> of them will die early on. I've quit buying them altogether because
> their high mortality rate frustrates me.

Has anyone else also experienced a die-off like this? Is it common? If
so, that would argue against me getting Otos.


Thanks for the info you've all shared.

Dave

[Andy Hill]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote:
>"RedForeman ©®" wrote:
>> Otos really don't do much for green algae, but the brown stuff really makes
>> their day... too bad you can't 'grow' brown alage.... you can, but it's a
>> pain...
>
>Is it really true that Otos only eat brown algae? Every time I've read
>the words "algae eater", I've always assumed green algae. I do have
>some brown algae on the glass and on the gravel, but I was hoping to get
>the Otos to take care of the green algae growing on the glass (green
>dots) and structure (green fuzzy).
>
>If the Otos don't eat the green stuff, I may just stay with manual
>cleaning.
>
>Is there any harm having brown algae on the gravel, or should I do
>something to clean it up?
>
>
>Eric Schreiber wrote:
>>
>> >I am considering getting one or more Otocinclus affinis for
>>
>> Get more. If your luck with them is anything like mine, a large number
>> of them will die early on. I've quit buying them altogether because
>> their high mortality rate frustrates me.
>
>Has anyone else also experienced a die-off like this? Is it common? If
>so, that would argue against me getting Otos.
>
Otos seem to prefer brown algae, but they'll eat the green stuff too.
*However*, they are *not* a substitute for manual cleaning -- they're more of an
interesting fish that just happens to eat algae. Plecos are a better fit for
industrial-strength algae eating, but they're not really appropriate for a small
tank (and, IMHO, the sh*t they leave everywhere is a lot more objectionable than
a little algae).

AFAIK, there is never any "harm" to algae, it's more of an esthetics thing --
personally, I keep the viewing surfaces cleaned off, but otherwise let it grow
where it wants. Cyanobacteria (often called "blue-green algae") is a sign that
something is pretty out of kilter in your tank (usually very high nitrates), but
that's not really an algae, per se.

On the oto die-off issue...yeah, they have a tendency to die off like flies when
they're first introduced to a tank. I've never heard a good explanation as to
why. After the initial week or two, they're pretty much unkillable, and pretty
long-lived.

[Michi Henning]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
...

> Is it really true that Otos only eat brown algae? Every time I've read
> the words "algae eater", I've always assumed green algae. I do have
> some brown algae on the glass and on the gravel, but I was hoping to get
> the Otos to take care of the green algae growing on the glass (green
> dots) and structure (green fuzzy).

Mine eat green fuzz algae quite happily (and very effectively). But I
don't have any brown algae in my tank. Possibly, when given a choice,
they leave the green stuff alone.

Cheers,

Michi.

--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

[NetMax]

"Andy Hill" > wrote in message
...
> "David J. Braunegg" > wrote:
> >"RedForeman ©®" wrote:
<snip>
>
> On the oto die-off issue...yeah, they have a tendency to die off like
flies when
> they're first introduced to a tank. I've never heard a good explanation
as to
> why. After the initial week or two, they're pretty much unkillable,
and pretty
> long-lived.

The last theory I read about was that we don't really know what they eat
well, and under stress, they don't seem to eat much of anything well.
This causes the shippers a problem, as the clock starts as soon as they
are removed from their 'home', and until they are acclimated to their new
home's water & feeding conditions, they basically do not eat. Compounded
with the fact that they are small, and don't have a lot of reserve energy
in them, means that the Oto you buy might already be close to being on
its last 'fins' ;~).

I'm fortunate to be close to a good supply of Otos in Toronto, Ontario,
but the fish we receive still look pale, gaunt and have some fin rot or
fin rot damage (yes, this is a good supply *sigh*). However, it's gotten
to the routine where my Oto losses are almost nil. They go into a small
planted tank (with tetras for company), which has a variety of algaes
established, and has 4 small water changes a day. We feed them algae
wafers, zucchini (which they are not crazy about), bottom feeder pellets
and they get residue flakes (occasionally they might be exposed to
beefheart, brine shrimp and bloodworms, but I've never had occasion to
see if they had any interest in these foods). We also drop in potted
plants from other tanks which have algae-covered leaves. This recipe
seems to work, and in about 3 weeks, they look ... (as Billy Crystal
would say).. marvellous!

If the Oto you buy is pale and/or with a concave belly, he is still on
the clock, so beware. Look for a dark line, clear eyes and a full belly
to improve your chances. They are neat little fish, but you need quite a
few of them.

NetMax

[Paul Murray]

In article >, NetMax wrote:
> "Andy Hill" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "David J. Braunegg" > wrote:
>> >"RedForeman ©®" wrote:
><snip>
>> On the oto die-off issue...yeah, they have a tendency to die off like
> flies when
>> they're first introduced to a tank. I've never heard a good explanation
> as to
>> why. After the initial week or two, they're pretty much unkillable,
> and pretty
>> long-lived.
> The last theory I read about was that we don't really know what they eat
> well, and under stress, they don't seem to eat much of anything well.
> This causes the shippers a problem, as the clock starts as soon as they
> are removed from their 'home', and until they are acclimated to their new
> home's water & feeding conditions, they basically do not eat. Compounded
> with the fact that they are small, and don't have a lot of reserve energy
> in them, means that the Oto you buy might already be close to being on
> its last 'fins' ;~).

As with most things, it also helps to find a good fish shop. Our normal
one wouldn't sell us Otos when we went in to get them, as they had only
just arrived, and they wanted to keep them for two weeks to let them
adjust before selling them. We bought six two weeks later and all are
doing fine.

-Paul

[Harry Muscle]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Andy Hill" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "David J. Braunegg" > wrote:
> > >"RedForeman ©®" wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> > On the oto die-off issue...yeah, they have a tendency to die off like
> flies when
> > they're first introduced to a tank. I've never heard a good explanation
> as to
> > why. After the initial week or two, they're pretty much unkillable,
> and pretty
> > long-lived.
>
> The last theory I read about was that we don't really know what they eat
> well, and under stress, they don't seem to eat much of anything well.
> This causes the shippers a problem, as the clock starts as soon as they
> are removed from their 'home', and until they are acclimated to their new
> home's water & feeding conditions, they basically do not eat. Compounded
> with the fact that they are small, and don't have a lot of reserve energy
> in them, means that the Oto you buy might already be close to being on
> its last 'fins' ;~).
>
> I'm fortunate to be close to a good supply o in Toronto, Ontario,
> but the fish we receive still look pale, gaunt and have some fin rot or
> fin rot damage (yes, this is a good supply *sigh*). However, it's gotten
> to the routine where my Oto losses are almost nil. They go into a small
> planted tank (with tetras for company), which has a variety of algaes
> established, and has 4 small water changes a day. We feed them algae
> wafers, zucchini (which they are not crazy about), bottom feeder pellets
> and they get residue flakes (occasionally they might be to
> beefheart, brine shrimp and bloodworms, but I've never had occasion to
> see if they had any interest in these foods). We also drop in potted
> plants from other tanks which have algae-covered leaves. This recipe
> seems to work, and in about 3 weeks, they look ... (as Billy Crystal
> would say).. marvellous!
>
> If the Oto you buy is pale and/or with a concave belly, he is still on
> the clock, so beware. Look for a dark line, clear eyes and a full belly
> to improve your chances. They are neat little fish, but you need quite a
> few of them.
>
> NetMax
>
>

Just out of curiosity, what's the name of the p in Toronto that you get
your fish? Do they deal with the public or only stores?

Thanks,
Harry




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[NetMax]

"Harry Muscle" > wrote in message
...
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> > "Andy Hill" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "David J. Braunegg" > wrote:
> > > >"RedForeman ©®" wrote:
> > <snip>

> Just out of curiosity, what's the name of the p in Toronto that you
get
> your fish? Do they deal with the public or only stores?
>
> Thanks,
> Harry

It's not exclusive to only one supplier, as it depends on availability &
season. Montreal has one wholesaler & Toronto has 2 wholesalers who
carry Otos, so the Ontario/Quebec Montreal/Ottawa/Toronto area has good
access. AFAIK, they only supply stores, and have minimum order sizes.

NetMax

[Anton]

I picked up 4 a month ago at Aquarium Services in Ottawa West. They we're
timid whilst in the 10gal quarantine for 2 weeks but now they're in the
48gal and loving it.

Anton

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Harry Muscle" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "NetMax" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > >
> > > "Andy Hill" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > "David J. Braunegg" > wrote:
> > > > >"RedForeman ©®" wrote:
> > > <snip>
>
> > Just out of curiosity, what's the name of the p in Toronto that you
> get
> > your fish? Do they deal with the public or only stores?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Harry
>
> It's not exclusive to only one supplier, as it depends on availability &
> season. Montreal has one wholesaler & Toronto has 2 wholesalers who
> carry Otos, so the Ontario/Quebec Montreal/Ottawa/Toronto area has good
> access. AFAIK, they only supply stores, and have minimum order sizes.
>
> NetMax
>
>