Help! re-post

[Matthew T. Carpenter]

Hello - I am reposting a question I had about whether my tank was
infected. Since the original message I've lost 2 more female guppies.
I have noticed that none of my 8 females were pregnant in the last
4-6 months, maybe because my 2 males are sterile, I don't know. The
male guppies don't chase them nearly the way the male mollies do,
since my female mollie died.

When they die they have very slightly distended abdomens. Here is the
original post:

I have a well established 30 gallon freshwater tank with an under
gravel filter and a Penguin biowheel 170. The pH runs about 7. I
keep somewhat less than a tbsp of salt/5 gallons. I keep the
temperature about 80F. There is no ammonia or nitrites etc. I have
mostly second and third generation platys, mollies and guppies, with a
few residual harlequins, that get fed 1-2 times per day. The fish
load is reasonable I think. Maybe 6 months ago the water qulaity
deteriorated badly due to infrequent water changes and a lot of my
first generation fish died. I learned my lesson and now do 30-50%
water changes weekly, vacuuming the gravel. I have not bought any new
fish for more than 6 months, although I recently added some ghost
shrimp, and fed the tank some live brine shrimp from the LFS. However
my problem predates these additions.

Starting about a month ago I have steadily been losing fish that were
young, < 6 months old, bred in the tank and previously healthy. They
have been dying 1-3 per week. It crosses all types: platys, mollies
and guppies. Just today I noticed I am missing a harlequin. The
first thing I see is they stop feeding so vigorously. Then they start
to be stationary and sort of hover at an angle, right side up but face
listing to the tank bottom. This list becomes more pronounced over
1-2 days and then they die. The body exterior appears normal. 4
month old platys, 6 month old guppies, 9 month old mollies. Newer fry
seem exempt. But I just lost my largest female platy to this ailment,
who was no more than 9 months old and who had just dropped fry .

Frankly I'm not sure what to do and hope someone here has some ideas.

[Dinky]

"Matthew T. Carpenter" > wrote in message
om...

>
> I have a well established 30 gallon freshwater tank with an under
> gravel filter and a Penguin biowheel 170. The pH runs about 7. I
> keep somewhat less than a tbsp of salt/5 gallons. I keep the
> temperature about 80F. There is no ammonia or nitrites etc. I have
> mostly second and third generation platys, mollies and guppies, with a
> few residual harlequins, that get fed 1-2 times per day. The fish
> load is reasonable I think. Maybe 6 months ago the water qulaity
>

Why are you using the salt?

What is your KH/GH?

Have you added any decor that might be leeching toxins into the water?


....just taking potshots here.....


billy

[Matthew Clark]

You pose a difficult question, but I am going to try to work through
it systematically.


> When they die they have very slightly distended abdomens.

Could be something, but more likely not. Post mortem abdominal
bloating is not uncommon.

>I keep somewhat less than a tbsp of salt/5 gallons.

Use at least a FULL tbsp/gallon for livebearers, esp. mollies. Mollies
like almost brackish water.

>There is no ammonia or nitrites etc.

What brand test kit did you use? How old is it? What sensitivity
level?

>I learned my lesson and now do 30-50%
> water changes weekly, vacuuming the gravel.

This is unnecssary and can even be harmful. 25 - 30% every 1-2 weeks
is a good rule of thumb.

> Starting about a month ago I have steadily been losing fish that were
> young, < 6 months old, bred in the tank and previously healthy. They
> have been dying 1-3 per week. It crosses all types: platys, mollies
> and guppies. Just today I noticed I am missing a harlequin. The
> first thing I see is they stop feeding so vigorously. Then they start
> to be stationary and sort of hover at an angle, right side up but face
> listing to the tank bottom. This list becomes more pronounced over
> 1-2 days and then they die. The body exterior appears normal.

All this seems to point to some kind of enviromental problem:
affecting several species of fish, loss of appetite, swimming
abnormalities (which are often derived from poor enviromenal
conditions, esp. in absence of external symptoms). However, there is
really not a lot to go on here. With little idea of where this may
take me, I am interested in the following information:

1. Above information about your ammonia/ nitrite test kits.
2. A nitrate reeding.
3. Dissolved oxygen reading.
4. Does your tap water contain chlorine or chloramine? If so, what are
you doing to correct this?
5. Is there any bullying/agression going on in the tank?
6. Other than salt, what chemicals, etc. are you adding to the tank?
7. Any other abnormal enviromental factors in the tank or the
surrounding area (e.g., did you recently paint the room with the
tank?)?

Let's hope the above can shed some light on this.

Matthew Clark

[Justin Boucher]

This post reminded of something.

A few years ago, I had a sudden difficulty with fish health and water
quality. It was suggested that I request a water analysis report from my
water supply company. Apparently, they added a new additive right around
the time my difficulties began.

Check with your local water company and see if they may have added anthing
new to their list of additives or increased the amount of one they already
add. You may need to make some adjustments to your water treatment
practices if they have.

Justin

"Matthew Clark" > wrote in message
om...
> You pose a difficult question, but I am going to try to work through
> it systematically.
>
>
> > When they die they have very slightly distended abdomens.
>
> Could be something, but more likely not. Post mortem abdominal
> bloating is not uncommon.
>
> >I keep somewhat less than a tbsp of salt/5 gallons.
>
> Use at least a FULL tbsp/gallon for livebearers, esp. mollies. Mollies
> like almost brackish water.
>
> >There is no ammonia or nitrites etc.
>
> What brand test kit did you use? How old is it? What sensitivity
> level?
>
> >I learned my lesson and now do 30-50%
> > water changes weekly, vacuuming the gravel.
>
> This is unnecssary and can even be harmful. 25 - 30% every 1-2 weeks
> is a good rule of thumb.
>
> > Starting about a month ago I have steadily been losing fish that were
> > young, < 6 months old, bred in the tank and previously healthy. They
> > have been dying 1-3 per week. It crosses all types: platys, mollies
> > and guppies. Just today I noticed I am missing a harlequin. The
> > first thing I see is they stop feeding so vigorously. Then they start
> > to be stationary and sort of hover at an angle, right side up but face
> > listing to the tank bottom. This list becomes more pronounced over
> > 1-2 days and then they die. The body exterior appears normal.
>
> All this seems to point to some kind of enviromental problem:
> affecting several species of fish, loss of appetite, swimming
> abnormalities (which are often derived from poor enviromenal
> conditions, esp. in absence of external symptoms). However, there is
> really not a lot to go on here. With little idea of where this may
> take me, I am interested in the following information:
>
> 1. Above information about your ammonia/ nitrite test kits.
> 2. A nitrate reeding.
> 3. Dissolved oxygen reading.
> 4. Does your tap water contain chlorine or chloramine? If so, what are
> you doing to correct this?
> 5. Is there any bullying/agression going on in the tank?
> 6. Other than salt, what chemicals, etc. are you adding to the tank?
> 7. Any other abnormal enviromental factors in the tank or the
> surrounding area (e.g., did you recently paint the room with the
> tank?)?
>
> Let's hope the above can shed some light on this.
>
> Matthew Clark

[coelacanth]

A couple of random thoughts:
1. Are you sure your test kits are working? I doubt your
nitrate is 0. Can you have your LFS check your water?
2. I think you're being to aggressive in your water changes
Certainly 50% weekly is too much (IMO).
3. Aside from the recent brine shrimp, are you giving a
good quality and varied diet?
4. (Forgive me if you know this) You should NOT be cleaning
your biowheel except to keep the axle free.

-coelacanth

"Matthew T. Carpenter" > wrote in message
om...
> Hello - I am reposting a question I had about whether my tank was
> infected. Since the original message I've lost 2 more female guppies.
> I have noticed that none of my 8 females were pregnant in the last
> 4-6 months, maybe because my 2 males are sterile, I don't know. The
> male guppies don't chase them nearly the way the male mollies do,
> since my female mollie died.
>
> When they die they have very slightly distended abdomens. Here is the
> original post:
>
> I have a well established 30 gallon freshwater tank with an under
> gravel filter and a Penguin biowheel 170. The pH runs about 7. I
> keep somewhat less than a tbsp of salt/5 gallons. I keep the
> temperature about 80F. There is no ammonia or nitrites etc. I have
> mostly second and third generation platys, mollies and guppies, with a
> few residual harlequins, that get fed 1-2 times per day. The fish
> load is reasonable I think. Maybe 6 months ago the water qulaity
> deteriorated badly due to infrequent water changes and a lot of my
> first generation fish died. I learned my lesson and now do 30-50%
> water changes weekly, vacuuming the gravel. I have not bought any new
> fish for more than 6 months, although I recently added some ghost
> shrimp, and fed the tank some live brine shrimp from the LFS. However
> my problem predates these additions.
>
> Starting about a month ago I have steadily been losing fish that were
> young, < 6 months old, bred in the tank and previously healthy. They
> have been dying 1-3 per week. It crosses all types: platys, mollies
> and guppies. Just today I noticed I am missing a harlequin. The
> first thing I see is they stop feeding so vigorously. Then they start
> to be stationary and sort of hover at an angle, right side up but face
> listing to the tank bottom. This list becomes more pronounced over
> 1-2 days and then they die. The body exterior appears normal. 4
> month old platys, 6 month old guppies, 9 month old mollies. Newer fry
> seem exempt. But I just lost my largest female platy to this ailment,
> who was no more than 9 months old and who had just dropped fry .
>
> Frankly I'm not sure what to do and hope someone here has some ideas.

[Matthew T. Carpenter]

(Matthew Clark) wrote in message >...

> Use at least a FULL tbsp/gallon for livebearers, esp. mollies. Mollies
> like almost brackish water.

I've heard this argued both ways. The population was stable,
producing fry in all types for quite a few months so I have elected to
leave the status quo.

> This is unnecssary and can even be harmful. 25 - 30% every 1-2 weeks
> is a good rule of thumb.

I will decrease the amount, as you suggest.

> 1. Above information about your ammonia/ nitrite test kits.

I'll get this; I forgot to write it down last night

> 2. A nitrate reeding.

10 ppm

> 3. Dissolved oxygen reading.

How does one do this? There is plent of surface agitation from my
biowheel and underwater filter powerhead

> 4. Does your tap water contain chlorine or chloramine? If so, what are
> you doing to correct this?

When I add new water I put in Stresscoat, somewhat more than
manufacturer recommends

> 5. Is there any bullying/agression going on in the tank?

Yes there is. The largest male platy chases immature males and
females of a certain size. He harrassed the smaller male, until its
untimely demise. There are 2 adult male mollies , and 5 developing
fry about 2-3 months old (some are female so I'm sort of waiting this
out). The female mollie died. The males chase each other and seem to
be giving amorous attention to the female guppies, chasing them all
around the tank while ignoring male guppies and all platys. The
guppies don't bother anything.

> 6. Other than salt, what chemicals, etc. are you adding to the tank?

Only stresscoat, only when I add more than 1/2 gallon of water. I
also change the charcoal cartridges in my biowheel about monthly,
after thoroughly rinsing the new cartridge. Of course, I never clean
the biowheel. I don't clean algae off the back of the tank or the
decorations.

> 7. Any other abnormal enviromental factors in the tank or the surrounding area (e.g., did you recently paint the room with the tank?)?

No

> Let's hope the above can shed some light on this.

Thank you very much for your thoughts!!

Matt

[Matthew T. Carpenter]

"coelacanth" > wrote in message >...
> A couple of random thoughts:
> 1. Are you sure your test kits are working? I doubt your
> nitrate is 0. Can you have your LFS check your water?
> 2. I think you're being to aggressive in your water changes
> Certainly 50% weekly is too much (IMO).
> 3. Aside from the recent brine shrimp, are you giving a
> good quality and varied diet?
> 4. (Forgive me if you know this) You should NOT be cleaning
> your biowheel except to keep the axle free.
>
> -coelacanth

Actually my nitrate was 10 ppm with negative nitrite and ammonia. pH
is 7.0. I will have to go to the LFS to check gH and kH.

I will decrease water changes to < 10 gallons/wk. When I change the
water I do stir up the gravel while vacuuming and it takes a while for
the gunk to settle back down.

I think the diet is OK. They get fed about twice a day, unless one of
my sons adds some extra food while I'm at work...They get frozen
bloodworms about every other day, frozen brine shrimp at the same
frequency, freeze dried tubifex worms 2-3 times per week, occasional
veggie flakes, shrimp pellets 2-3 times per week, freeze dried
bloodworms about weekly, freeze dried daphnia about twice a month and
fish flakes daily. They get live food no more often than once every
month or 2 as I have to go to the LFS to get it.

I never clean the biowheel, and do not remove algae from the back or
the in tank decorations. The gravel should be a good biofilter too,
with my undergravel filter.

Thanks for your help

Matt