Treating Corys for Ich

[David J. Braunegg]

I have 2 Corys and 6 Platys. One Cory has a white spot on its flank, a
white spot at the pectoral fin "underarm", and a white spot on a gill. I
assume this is Ich. Is it? (None of the other fish are exhibiting any
symptoms.)

I read the write-up on treating Ich at
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml and I plan to buy a
formalin/malachite green mixture to treat the desease. I've also Googled
for old articles in this newsgroup and have look at other web sites. I have
a few questions specific to treating Corys before I begin.

- I saw recommendations to raise the aquarium temperature to 85F, but
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=46102&genusname=Corydoras&speciesname=leucomelas
says that my Cory should only go up to 26C, which is 78.8F. I should stay
at the lower (78F) limit, right?

- Some old emails from this group mentioned halving the dosage of
medications for Corys, but now I can't find those emails. Should I halve
the dosage? If so, do I dose for twice as many days, or cut the dose in
half, but dose twice as often?

- I saw recommendations for adding salt, as well, but Corys are not supposed
to do well with salt. I leave out the salt, right?

- I also read that I need to treat every day until the spots are gone, then
every 3 days for for more doses to get the cysts that are still in the
water/substrate. Do I need to adjust the dosage/frequency/duration because
of treating Corys?

- I had planned on getting some buddies for the Corys. Should I wait until
the treatment is complete before adding more fish? Should I wait longer?

Thank you very much,
Dave

[RedForeman ©®]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
> I have 2 Corys and 6 Platys. One Cory has a white spot on its flank, a
> white spot at the pectoral fin "underarm", and a white spot on a gill. I
> assume this is Ich. Is it? (None of the other fish are exhibiting any
> symptoms.)

Sounds like it... they're aren't going to exhibit much, just the spots...
stress will make it worse, and it will get worse if not fixed...

> I read the write-up on treating Ich at
> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml and I plan to buy a
> formalin/malachite green mixture to treat the desease. I've also Googled
> for old articles in this newsgroup and have look at other web sites. I
have
> a few questions specific to treating Corys before I begin.
>
> - I saw recommendations to raise the aquarium temperature to 85F, but
>
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=46102&genusname=Corydo
ras&speciesname=leucomelas
> says that my Cory should only go up to 26C, which is 78.8F. I should stay
> at the lower (78F) limit, right?

they can probably handle up to 85, but not for a prolonged period....

> - Some old emails from this group mentioned halving the dosage of
> medications for Corys, but now I can't find those emails. Should I halve
> the dosage? If so, do I dose for twice as many days, or cut the dose in
> half, but dose twice as often?

never heard that for cories, but halves are normal for scaleless fish, like
loaches, botias, etc.

> - I saw recommendations for adding salt, as well, but Corys are not
supposed
> to do well with salt. I leave out the salt, right?

For cories, they don't like salt and I'd probably follow this one, and leave
the salt out for the cories...

> - I also read that I need to treat every day until the spots are gone,
then
> every 3 days for for more doses to get the cysts that are still in the
> water/substrate. Do I need to adjust the dosage/frequency/duration
because
> of treating Corys?

Water change, treat... then treat every 24hrs, and water change ever 2, 4,
7th day, and repeat until 14days have passed, or atleast a good 3-5 after
the last spot was gone.. also, leaving the lights out can help lower the
already high stress...

> - I had planned on getting some buddies for the Corys. Should I wait
until
> the treatment is complete before adding more fish? Should I wait longer?

Probably, but here's the quandry... If you get more fish now, you can treat
EVERYONE at the same time, or you can get a quarantine tank and treat JUST
the infected fish... I'd opt for the quarantine tank, it only needs to be
enough for your biggest fish, and have a filter, AND BE CYCLED.. not to
complicate things, this one is a tuffie...

> Thank you very much,
> Dave
>
>

[D&M]

Just a small peice of advice, don't go gungho with meds, take it easy. A
couple spots is nothing. Try natural solutions first, elevated temps, salt.

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
...
> I have 2 Corys and 6 Platys. One Cory has a white spot on its flank, a
> white spot at the pectoral fin "underarm", and a white spot on a gill. I
> assume this is Ich. Is it? (None of the other fish are exhibiting any
> symptoms.)
>
> I read the write-up on treating Ich at
> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml and I plan to buy a
> formalin/malachite green mixture to treat the desease. I've also Googled
> for old articles in this newsgroup and have look at other web sites. I
have
> a few questions specific to treating Corys before I begin.
>
> - I saw recommendations to raise the aquarium temperature to 85F, but
>
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=46102&genusname=Corydoras&speciesname=leucomelas
> says that my Cory should only go up to 26C, which is 78.8F. I should stay
> at the lower (78F) limit, right?
>
> - Some old emails from this group mentioned halving the dosage of
> medications for Corys, but now I can't find those emails. Should I halve
> the dosage? If so, do I dose for twice as many days, or cut the dose in
> half, but dose twice as often?
>
> - I saw recommendations for adding salt, as well, but Corys are not
supposed
> to do well with salt. I leave out the salt, right?
>
> - I also read that I need to treat every day until the spots are gone,
then
> every 3 days for for more doses to get the cysts that are still in the
> water/substrate. Do I need to adjust the dosage/frequency/duration
because
> of treating Corys?
>
> - I had planned on getting some buddies for the Corys. Should I wait
until
> the treatment is complete before adding more fish? Should I wait longer?
>
> Thank you very much,
> Dave
>
>

[NetMax]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
...
> I have 2 Corys and 6 Platys. One Cory has a white spot on its flank, a
> white spot at the pectoral fin "underarm", and a white spot on a gill.
I
> assume this is Ich. Is it? (None of the other fish are exhibiting any
> symptoms.)

I suggest you do some significant water changes and gravel-vacuum. This
will reduce the Ich concentration in the water and vacuum out any
developing cycts hidden in the substrate. It will also dilute any water
parameters which might have been stresssing the fish. Ich is an
opportunistic parasite, which often goes un-noticed in a tank and dies
off by itself. If the fish are healthy, the parasite cannot tunnel
through the slime coat, and any existence it can wittle out of feeding on
the gill membranes will not keep it alive long.

Alternately, Ich can also flare up quickly, so early treatment is the
key. Which approach? It's your call. If your fish are old, stressed,
or have not been exposed to diseases in a long time, the contagion could
spread quickly. If your fish are healthy and have not been living in a
bubble for many months, then their immune system will handle the Ich,
like we handle the common cold. My personal approach is to curse, check
water parameters, check filter operation, do the w/c's and then I note
the quantity and location of the Ich, and check back periodically to see
if the disease is progressing, stabilized or receding. For Clown
loaches, I start medicating immediately (or sooner ;~). For Corys, use
your discretion. On a scale of 1 to 10 (most succeptable), they are
about a 7 (mostly because they are sitting on the hatching cycts, or else
they would be a 4.

> I read the write-up on treating Ich at
> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml and I plan to
buy a
> formalin/malachite green mixture to treat the desease. I've also
Googled
> for old articles in this newsgroup and have look at other web sites. I
have
> a few questions specific to treating Corys before I begin.

I have had better luck with Nox-Ich (Malachite Green and no formalin)
than with Rid-Ich (Malachite Green & formalin), but results will always
vary. I do think that Corys are considered scaleless, so a half-dosage
is required (most armoured cats have a scaleless belly). I think that
the formalin increases the toxicity, (and if you are with scaleless
fish... (?)).

> - I saw recommendations to raise the aquarium temperature to 85F, but
>
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=46102&genusname=Corydoras&speciesname=leucomelas
> says that my Cory should only go up to 26C, which is 78.8F. I should
stay
> at the lower (78F) limit, right?

Cranking the temperature a bit causes the Ich to move into their
vunerable free-swimming stage faster, and gets the fish's metabolism up a
notch. Harmless when dealing with healthy fish. I'd stay below 80F, but
that's just me.

> - Some old emails from this group mentioned halving the dosage of
> medications for Corys, but now I can't find those emails. Should I
halve
> the dosage? If so, do I dose for twice as many days, or cut the dose
in
> half, but dose twice as often?

Dose every 2nd day, and the dose size is half what is recommended.

> - I saw recommendations for adding salt, as well, but Corys are not
supposed
> to do well with salt. I leave out the salt, right?

Again, like temperature, nebulous effects. Ich used to be treated by
salt & high temperatures (with mixed results). A small amount of salt
will have no bad effect. You would have better results from removing
your carbon and keeping sunlight off the tank (breaks down the
medication). Dimming the tank (no tank lights, just room lighting) will
also be restful, and feed some nice foods (ie: frozen shrimp, bottom
feeder pellets, but not too much). Keeping a stable low stress
environment would be helpful.

> - I also read that I need to treat every day until the spots are gone,
then
> every 3 days for for more doses to get the cysts that are still in the
> water/substrate. Do I need to adjust the dosage/frequency/duration
because
> of treating Corys?

IMO, I don't think that you will kill every Ich in your tank in a normal
round of medication. The idea is to reduce their numbers to be
statistically insignificant, and to weaken the surviving Ich to be of
little consequence. Time and the fish's immune system will take care of
the remaining stragglers. Note that cutting the treatment too short may
leave a statistically significant quantity of Ich in the water, which
might develop some immunity to the 1/2 dosage Malachite green. I find
that 4 to five dosages (on alternate days) to be effective (when combined
with water changes and gravel-vac), on most Ich variants, but that's just
been my limited experience. I've read about some strains being much more
problematic to elliminate.

> - I had planned on getting some buddies for the Corys. Should I wait
until
> the treatment is complete before adding more fish? Should I wait
longer?

Adding fish now, potentially adds more disease vectors to a tank which is
already being treated for parasites. It's a good idea if your new
arrivals have any parasites which would be adressed by Malachite Green,
or are otherwise healthy and would not be negatively affected by the
treatment. It's a bad idea if the new vectors are bacterial or
Malachite-immune parasitic. I tend to treat hospital tanks as
quarantine, nothing in, nothing out, but there are always exceptions.
It's your tank. hth

NetMax

> Thank you very much,
> Dave
>
>

[David J. Braunegg]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> I do think that Corys are considered scaleless, so a half-dosage
> is required (most armoured cats have a scaleless belly). I think that
> the formalin increases the toxicity, (and if you are with scaleless
> fish... (?)).

Thank you.

Perhaps a bit over-anxious, I started treating before I read your email, so
I went 4 days at full dose and am now switching to every 2 days at half
dose. Between doses I am doing my normal 30% water change.

I don't think the Cory's have suffered from the full dose, but they
typically weren't very active before, so it is hard to know for sure.

Dave

[NetMax]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
...
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > I do think that Corys are considered scaleless, so a half-dosage
> > is required (most armoured cats have a scaleless belly). I think
that
> > the formalin increases the toxicity, (and if you are with scaleless
> > fish... (?)).
>
> Thank you.
>
> Perhaps a bit over-anxious, I started treating before I read your
email, so
> I went 4 days at full dose and am now switching to every 2 days at half
> dose. Between doses I am doing my normal 30% water change.
>
> I don't think the Cory's have suffered from the full dose, but they
> typically weren't very active before, so it is hard to know for sure.
>
> Dave

LOL, I also haven't found that Corys appear to suffer from full dosages,
or plecs or most tetras either (but how do we really know?). The only
tetras which do badly with full dosage seem to be Neons, and I can never
be sure if it was the medication or the disease with them. With loaches,
I'm tempted to go full dosage, as Ich can overtake them faster than the
treatment takes control. Otherwise, I still follow the directions on the
bottle. If it has been 4 days, I think the white spots which were on the
Cory would now either be gone or would have moved. This would better
confirm that it was early ich, rather than a small cyst or nodule of
something else.

NetMax

[David J. Braunegg]

The Corys have become very shy around me--when they see my face looming
outside the tank, they skitter away and hide. They don't run when the see
the kids up close, though. Makes it hard for me to do follow-up
inspections.

I believe that the "armpit" spot under the pectoral fin is gone. Thought I
still saw a white spot on the outer gill cover, but later couldn't see it.
The dot on the fish's flank is still there (roughly on the lateral line, 3/4
of the way toward the tail), but less noticeable (smaller and dark instead
of white). I believe that the fish's body is slightly depressed at this
spot (which I also noticed when I first saw the spot). So, I'm not sure if
this spot is Ich, some other disease, a cyst/nodule (as you suggested, but
would this be of concern?), an old scar, or just a natural feature.

I figure to finish out the course of 1/2 dose every 2 days for another 3-4
treatments, then see what happens. I assume that if it is not Ich, then I
will see some change for the worse.

Thank you again,
Dave


"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> LOL, I also haven't found that Corys appear to suffer from full dosages,
> or plecs or most tetras either (but how do we really know?). The only
> tetras which do badly with full dosage seem to be Neons, and I can never
> be sure if it was the medication or the disease with them. With loaches,
> I'm tempted to go full dosage, as Ich can overtake them faster than the
> treatment takes control. Otherwise, I still follow the directions on the
> bottle. If it has been 4 days, I think the white spots which were on the
> Cory would now either be gone or would have moved. This would better
> confirm that it was early ich, rather than a small cyst or nodule of
> something else.
>
> NetMax

[NetMax]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
...
> The Corys have become very shy around me--when they see my face looming
> outside the tank, they skitter away and hide. They don't run when the
see
> the kids up close, though. Makes it hard for me to do follow-up
> inspections.
<snip>
>
> Thank you again,
> Dave
<snip>

Regarding close observation, fish react to the size, speed and color of
the object (you) approaching the tank. Moving slow and wearing darker
colours will let you sneak up more easily and watch their natural
behaviour. Also turning off the room lights and wearing dark colours
lets you blend into the background. If you don't make any sudden
movements, most fish will soon disregard your presence.

For quicker inspection methods, get a piece of dark cardboard big enough
to cover the entire side (end) of the tank. Make a 1.5" hole in the
cardboard in line with the fish you will be watching (gravel level for
Corys ;~). After a few hours, the fish will accept that this part of the
tank is safe (doesn't move), and you will be able to sneak up to the tank
and peek through the hole without startling them as much. This is also
great for watching breeding activity, which you don't want to spook.

NetMax