Glo-lite tetras died - were fine an hour ago!

[Ant]

Apparently we didn't do something right.

We fed our 4 tiny tetras an hour and a half ago & they did their
normal feeding-frenzy thing.

5 minutes ago my wife heard something jump in the tank. We looked,
and 3 were floating dead, and the last was in it's final throes.

We've had these little guys for 4 weeks with no problems. I thought
the tank had 'cycled' since the white cloudy water had just cleared up
early last week, and some algae growth had finally started on the side
of the tank. I thought we were in the clear. Seems kind of odd that
they'd die so suddenly with no warning.

It's a small 2 1/2 gallon tank, with a Whisper water filter (hangs on
the side) and a small heater set to 76 degrees. We did our weekly 10%
water change yesterday afternoon, treating the water that we added
with some Aquasafe chlorine remover.

Any ideas on what we did to kill them?

And any suggestions on indestructable fish?

- Ant

[Ant]

Just got done reading up on http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin.html
and my guess is we had an ammonia spike. Time to go buy those test
strips from Petco (a little late, I know).

Still, we'd like to try again, and any suggestions on a good choice of
a fish for the cycling phase would be appreciated..

Thanks,

- Ant

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:53:32 -0500, Ant > wrote:

>Apparently we didn't do something right.
>
>We fed our 4 tiny tetras an hour and a half ago & they did their
>normal feeding-frenzy thing.
>
>5 minutes ago my wife heard something jump in the tank. We looked,
>and 3 were floating dead, and the last was in it's final throes.
>
>We've had these little guys for 4 weeks with no problems. I thought
>the tank had 'cycled' since the white cloudy water had just cleared up
>early last week, and some algae growth had finally started on the side
>of the tank. I thought we were in the clear. Seems kind of odd that
>they'd die so suddenly with no warning.
>
>It's a small 2 1/2 gallon tank, with a Whisper water filter (hangs on
>the side) and a small heater set to 76 degrees. We did our weekly 10%
>water change yesterday afternoon, treating the water that we added
>with some Aquasafe chlorine remover.
>
>Any ideas on what we did to kill them?
>
>And any suggestions on indestructable fish?
>
>- Ant

[Trina]

Hi Ant,

How many fish did you have in the tank, the 4 tetras? I think that may
have been too many tetras to cycle a tank that size with.
How did the scales/fins look?
You can buy testing kits which are better for determing pH, Nitrites,
Ammonia, Hardness, Nitrates (the good guys!) etc..
I'm in Canada and the mini master test kit cost me about 30$ CAD and
has lasted us since mid-December and well still haven't run out of
anything yet. This was testing the Ammonia and Nitrites everyday
sometimes 2xs/day and frequently testing General HArdness, pH etc..
When you get yours test kit, please post your results so we can all
see :)
A really informative site for new comers is www.thekrib.com, great
info there.
Did you have a heater in your tank, is it possible there was a short
in something?
What color was the algae?
When I de-clor the water during water changes, I use AquaPlus (comes
in white and blue bottle), I found when I was using AquaSafe (by
TetraAqua) I would get really high false Ammonia readings, threw us
right off for a bit there!
The glo-light tetras are very cool! I hope we can help you with future
success!

Trina :)
Yukon, Canada
44gal/tall/pent/fresh
10gal/reg/planted/fresh
(more coming soon!.. hehe)
http://mekong.connections.yk.ca/milady/H2O/LiquidZoo.html

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:28:58 -0500, Ant > wrote:

>Just got done reading up on http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin.html
>and my guess is we had an ammonia spike. Time to go buy those test
>strips from Petco (a little late, I know).
>
>Still, we'd like to try again, and any suggestions on a good choice of
>a fish for the cycling phase would be appreciated..
>
>Thanks,
>
>- Ant
>
>On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:53:32 -0500, Ant > wrote:
>
>>Apparently we didn't do something right.
>>
>>We fed our 4 tiny tetras an hour and a half ago & they did their
>>normal feeding-frenzy thing.
>>
>>5 minutes ago my wife heard something jump in the tank. We looked,
>>and 3 were floating dead, and the last was in it's final throes.
>>
>>We've had these little guys for 4 weeks with no problems. I thought
>>the tank had 'cycled' since the white cloudy water had just cleared up
>>early last week, and some algae growth had finally started on the side
>>of the tank. I thought we were in the clear. Seems kind of odd that
>>they'd die so suddenly with no warning.
>>
>>It's a small 2 1/2 gallon tank, with a Whisper water filter (hangs on
>>the side) and a small heater set to 76 degrees. We did our weekly 10%
>>water change yesterday afternoon, treating the water that we added
>>with some Aquasafe chlorine remover.
>>
>>Any ideas on what we did to kill them?
>>
>>And any suggestions on indestructable fish?
>>
>>- Ant

[Dinky]

"Ant" > wrote in message
...
> Just got done reading up on http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin.html
> and my guess is we had an ammonia spike. Time to go buy those test
> strips from Petco (a little late, I know).
>


I can't imagine an ammonia spike acting that fast. In my early days of
fishkeeping, death due to ammonia took much longer.

[Dave Engle]

"Ant" > wrote in message
...
> And any suggestions on indestructable fish?

For a 2.5 gallon tank? How about one betta splendens...

There are so many things that can go wrong in an aquarium that small
(well, the same things that can go wrong with any tank, but with a
smaller margin for error...). I'd start out with one small fish or
perhaps a larger fish like a betta, and let it go for a few weeks
before adding another fish. Zebra danios are good-looking, small,
tough fish. You could probably have three of them in that tank after
it cycles...
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CingularDuality
TacticalGamer.com Administration
http://www.TacticalGamer.com
MUST REMOVE BOTH SPAMBLOCKS TO REPLY!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Engle

DFW, TX USA
Independent Associate
Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc.
http://www.prepaidlegal.com/go/dengle

[IDzine01]

> There are so many things that can go wrong in an aquarium that small
> (well, the same things that can go wrong with any tank, but with a
> smaller margin for error...). I'd start out with one small fish or
> perhaps a larger fish like a betta, and let it go for a few weeks
> before adding another fish. Zebra danios are good-looking, small,
> tough fish. You could probably have three of them in that tank after
> it cycles...


I'd agree a Betta would be fine in your 2.5 gal. That's what I kept
mine in before I got other fish. You could keep him with a snail or
shrimps, they play very little into the bioload.

I've heard a lot of bad things about danios and bettas together and
because of that I haven't tryed it myself so I couldn't say.

[Boozhound]

"IDzine01" > wrote in message
om...
>
>
> I've heard a lot of bad things about danios and bettas together and
> because of that I haven't tryed it myself so I couldn't say.

I tried keeping Danios and a Betta in the same tank many years ago. The
Danios (zebras) chewed the Betta to bits before I had a chance to get him
out.

Simon

[Gizela]

2 of my glolite tetras died during the early stages of cycling....APPARENTLY
(I found this out too late) they are too fragile to cycle with....that
said...if the water is good they are quite hardy fish!!

Sorry about your loss

Angela

"Ant" > wrote in message
...
> Apparently we didn't do something right.
>
> We fed our 4 tiny tetras an hour and a half ago & they did their
> normal feeding-frenzy thing.
>
> 5 minutes ago my wife heard something jump in the tank. We looked,
> and 3 were floating dead, and the last was in it's final throes.
>
> We've had these little guys for 4 weeks with no problems. I thought
> the tank had 'cycled' since the white cloudy water had just cleared up
> early last week, and some algae growth had finally started on the side
> of the tank. I thought we were in the clear. Seems kind of odd that
> they'd die so suddenly with no warning.
>
> It's a small 2 1/2 gallon tank, with a Whisper water filter (hangs on
> the side) and a small heater set to 76 degrees. We did our weekly 10%
> water change yesterday afternoon, treating the water that we added
> with some Aquasafe chlorine remover.
>
> Any ideas on what we did to kill them?
>
> And any suggestions on indestructable fish?
>
> - Ant

[NetMax]

"Ant" > wrote in message
...
> Apparently we didn't do something right.
>
> We fed our 4 tiny tetras an hour and a half ago &
<snip>
> It's a small 2 1/2 gallon tank,
<snip>
> And any suggestions on indestructable fish?

The smaller the tank, the less stable the water parameters are. It's
much more of an art to get a tiny aquarium cycled, and kept in
equilibrium. Maybe try a Betta, an Apple snail and a frog (ADF). This
is a fairly undemanding cast of aquatic inhabitants who are better suited
to a smaller tank such as yours.

NetMax

> - Ant

[Ant]

Yes, we had 4 tiny tetras less thanan inch long. The scales looked
fine, and all their fins were pretty much healed (we had traded in an
aggressive glo-lite that nipped all the other's fins a few weeks ago),

I'm planning on picking up a box of the test strips ($10) on my way
home from work, which I'm guessing will tell me the
pH/ammonia/nitate/nitrite levels.

The heater seems to be working fine. It's a small Netune heater for
2-5 gallon tanks. The water is nice & warm to the touch.

The algae spots were a dark green, only in small patches on the walls
of the tank & the bottom of the filter.

I'm using the AquaSafe from TetraAqua - so I won't get too alarmed if
I see a high ammonia reading. I'll see if they have AquaPlus at the
store.

Thanks for the reply - we really liked the glo-lites and feel pretty
bad about killing them.

- Ant



On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 20:25:13 -0800, Trina
> wrote:

>Hi Ant,
>
>How many fish did you have in the tank, the 4 tetras? I think that may
>have been too many tetras to cycle a tank that size with.
>How did the scales/fins look?
>You can buy testing kits which are better for determing pH, Nitrites,
>Ammonia, Hardness, Nitrates (the good guys!) etc..
>I'm in Canada and the mini master test kit cost me about 30$ CAD and
>has lasted us since mid-December and well still haven't run out of
>anything yet. This was testing the Ammonia and Nitrites everyday
>sometimes 2xs/day and frequently testing General HArdness, pH etc..
>When you get yours test kit, please post your results so we can all
>see :)
>A really informative site for new comers is www.thekrib.com, great
>info there.
>Did you have a heater in your tank, is it possible there was a short
>in something?
>What color was the algae?
>When I de-clor the water during water changes, I use AquaPlus (comes
>in white and blue bottle), I found when I was using AquaSafe (by
>TetraAqua) I would get really high false Ammonia readings, threw us
>right off for a bit there!
>The glo-light tetras are very cool! I hope we can help you with future
>success!
>
>Trina :)
>Yukon, Canada
>44gal/tall/pent/fresh
>10gal/reg/planted/fresh
>(more coming soon!.. hehe)
>http://mekong.connections.yk.ca/milady/H2O/LiquidZoo.html
>
>On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:28:58 -0500, Ant > wrote:

[Ant]

Thanks for the suggestions - I'll pass it on to my wife & we'll check
out the zebras & betta's. We were planning on getting a bigger tank
down the road, and the 2.5 gallon was just a test to see if we (& the
cat) liked it.

- Ant

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 05:53:35 -0600, "Dave Engle"
> wrote:

>"Ant" > wrote in message
...
>> And any suggestions on indestructable fish?
>
>For a 2.5 gallon tank? How about one betta splendens...
>
>There are so many things that can go wrong in an aquarium that small
>(well, the same things that can go wrong with any tank, but with a
>smaller margin for error...). I'd start out with one small fish or
>perhaps a larger fish like a betta, and let it go for a few weeks
>before adding another fish. Zebra danios are good-looking, small,
>tough fish. You could probably have three of them in that tank after
>it cycles...

[Ant]

If we go the zebra or danio route, we'll be sure to only do one or the
other.

Will snails/shrimp climb out of the tank? It has a small open area in
the back where the filter & heater hang into the tank, so it's not
toally enclosed. My wife had a few frogs in her tank when she was a
kid & they of course climbed out, so we can't go that route either
(but the cat would love it),

- Ant

On 2 Feb 2004 12:38:52 -0800, (IDzine01) wrote:

>> There are so many things that can go wrong in an aquarium that small
>> (well, the same things that can go wrong with any tank, but with a
>> smaller margin for error...). I'd start out with one small fish or
>> perhaps a larger fish like a betta, and let it go for a few weeks
>> before adding another fish. Zebra danios are good-looking, small,
>> tough fish. You could probably have three of them in that tank after
>> it cycles...
>
>
>I'd agree a Betta would be fine in your 2.5 gal. That's what I kept
>mine in before I got other fish. You could keep him with a snail or
>shrimps, they play very little into the bioload.
>
>I've heard a lot of bad things about danios and bettas together and
>because of that I haven't tryed it myself so I couldn't say.

[Ant]

Thanks for the reply. We're going to get the tester kit & watch the
water over the next few days (with the filter running & heater on)
before we get another fish.

Isn't there a high risk of the snail & frog climbing out of the tank?
It's not completely enclosed & I'd hate to come home & find a frog leg
in the cat's dish. :)

It looks like we'll look into a betta or danio, and maybe a shrimp.
But first we need to find out how our water's doing.

Thanks,

- Ant


On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:43:30 -0500, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>
>"Ant" > wrote in message
...
>> Apparently we didn't do something right.
>>
>> We fed our 4 tiny tetras an hour and a half ago &
><snip>
>> It's a small 2 1/2 gallon tank,
><snip>
>> And any suggestions on indestructable fish?
>
>The smaller the tank, the less stable the water parameters are. It's
>much more of an art to get a tiny aquarium cycled, and kept in
>equilibrium. Maybe try a Betta, an Apple snail and a frog (ADF). This
>is a fairly undemanding cast of aquatic inhabitants who are better suited
>to a smaller tank such as yours.
>
>NetMax
>
>> - Ant
>

[IDzine01]

Ant > wrote in message >...


> Will snails/shrimp climb out of the tank? It has a small open area in
> the back where the filter & heater hang into the tank, so it's not
> toally enclosed. My wife had a few frogs in her tank when she was a
> kid & they of course climbed out, so we can't go that route either
> (but the cat would love it),

It's not likely the snails or shrimp will climb out. My shrimp don't
even have the strength to break the surface. I've never had a snail
climb all the way out. But your betta sure could jump. I have a 1"x3"
hole in the back of my tank where the filter doesn't quite cover and I
lost my beautiful white betta to a jumping incident just two weeks
ago. I meant to cover it but figured it was so small. I found him
dried up on the floor the next morning. I'm still kicking myself over
it because I knew better. :-(

Poor Frost.

[NetMax]

"IDzine01" > wrote in message
om...
> Ant > wrote in message
>...
>
>
> > Will snails/shrimp climb out of the tank? It has a small open area
in
> > the back where the filter & heater hang into the tank, so it's not
> > toally enclosed. My wife had a few frogs in her tank when she was a
> > kid & they of course climbed out, so we can't go that route either
> > (but the cat would love it),
>
> It's not likely the snails or shrimp will climb out. My shrimp don't
> even have the strength to break the surface. I've never had a snail
> climb all the way out. But your betta sure could jump. I have a 1"x3"
> hole in the back of my tank where the filter doesn't quite cover and I
> lost my beautiful white betta to a jumping incident just two weeks
> ago. I meant to cover it but figured it was so small. I found him
> dried up on the floor the next morning. I'm still kicking myself over
> it because I knew better. :-(
>
> Poor Frost.

Apple snails lay their eggs out of the water, so they do climb out.
After they lay the eggs, they turn around and generally head back in the
direction of the water (with mixed results). Apple snails are generally
bigger than any random gaps in a cover though, so they would lay their
eggs under the cover.

Sorry about your Betta. A month before my 108G tank split open (and
soaked my basement), I was studying the silicone seal thinking that there
was an awful lot of air entrapment along the bead, and that I should
probably put a pipe clamp on it until I have time to empty and
re-silicone it.

NetMax

[IDzine01]

A month before my 108G tank split open (and
> soaked my basement), I was studying the silicone seal thinking that there
> was an awful lot of air entrapment along the bead, and that I should
> probably put a pipe clamp on it until I have time to empty and
> re-silicone it.


That is so awful. My heart goes out to ya. Were you able to save any fish?

~IDzine01

[NetMax]

"IDzine01" > wrote in message
om...
> A month before my 108G tank split open (and
> > soaked my basement), I was studying the silicone seal thinking that
there
> > was an awful lot of air entrapment along the bead, and that I should
> > probably put a pipe clamp on it until I have time to empty and
> > re-silicone it.
>
>
> That is so awful. My heart goes out to ya. Were you able to save any
fish?
>
> ~IDzine01

I didn't lose a single fish. The silicone ripped along the top front,
and the glass separated enough to dump about 50 gallons on the floor
(nice little flood). When the internal water pressure had decreased, the
remaining silicone pulled the glass back in, so I had a half empty tank.
One of my 2 heaters cracked (the higher one in the air), and I would have
lost suction on the powerfilter soon, but the canister filter didn't care
(I always recommend running dual heaters/filters on large tanks). I
packed the fish into styrofoam boxes and took them to a 100g at work. I
get to see them everyday I work, but they are slowly getting sold off.

NetMax

[Mike]

You were one of the lucky ones.lol
I had a two hundred gallon reef tank.I ordered a wet/dry trickle
filter from an online company and the day ups deliverd it I hooked it
up and the filter came with a note saying that I didnt have to put a
break in the siphon hose cause of its patented valve system so I set
it up and decided to goto the lfs for a few supplies and a really nice
brain coral ...but any ways I was only gone for maybe an hour when I
got back I noticed the lights in the house where off and a few cops
about half a block down the road.. well some @$$ who wanted to drink
and drive just had to hit the pole that carried the electricity to my
house and low and behold the patented valve system didnt work. So I
had 200 gallons of water in my whole house and about 4000.00 dollors
of dead coral and a really beautifull pair of clown fish that just
moved into a bid carpent anemone..well thats my sad sad story, and now
2 years later I just finally got a 75 gallon freshwater started ..now
I really miss my sal****er...and my bristle starfish and little
cleaner shrimp ........NO im not crying I just got something in my
eye....

[NetMax]

"Mike" > wrote in message
om...
> You were one of the lucky ones.lol
> I had a two hundred gallon reef tank.I ordered a wet/dry trickle
> filter from an online company and the day ups deliverd it I hooked it
> up and the filter came with a note saying that I didnt have to put a
> break in the siphon hose cause of its patented valve system so I set
> it up and decided to goto the lfs for a few supplies and a really nice
> brain coral ...but any ways I was only gone for maybe an hour when I
> got back I noticed the lights in the house where off and a few cops
> about half a block down the road.. well some @$$ who wanted to drink
> and drive just had to hit the pole that carried the electricity to my
> house and low and behold the patented valve system didnt work. So I
> had 200 gallons of water in my whole house and about 4000.00 dollors
> of dead coral and a really beautifull pair of clown fish that just
> moved into a bid carpent anemone..well thats my sad sad story, and now
> 2 years later I just finally got a 75 gallon freshwater started ..now
> I really miss my sal****er...and my bristle starfish and little
> cleaner shrimp ........NO im not crying I just got something in my
> eye....

Man, I would have sued his @$$! All that work :o(

NetMax

[Ant]

I don't know if anyone's still following this, but I finally got the
test kits & tested my water (that the fish died in a week ago).

PH: somewhere between 6.0 - 6.4... closer to 6.0
Ammonia: 1.0 - 2.0 ppm
Nitrate: 0-5ppm

- Ant


On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:53:32 -0500, Ant > wrote:

>Apparently we didn't do something right.
>
>We fed our 4 tiny tetras an hour and a half ago & they did their
>normal feeding-frenzy thing.
>
>5 minutes ago my wife heard something jump in the tank. We looked,
>and 3 were floating dead, and the last was in it's final throes.
>
>We've had these little guys for 4 weeks with no problems. I thought
>the tank had 'cycled' since the white cloudy water had just cleared up
>early last week, and some algae growth had finally started on the side
>of the tank. I thought we were in the clear. Seems kind of odd that
>they'd die so suddenly with no warning.
>
>It's a small 2 1/2 gallon tank, with a Whisper water filter (hangs on
>the side) and a small heater set to 76 degrees. We did our weekly 10%
>water change yesterday afternoon, treating the water that we added
>with some Aquasafe chlorine remover.
>
>Any ideas on what we did to kill them?
>
>And any suggestions on indestructable fish?
>
>- Ant

[Paulo]

Your ammonia is very high...You tank is cycled? You have to review your
filter. It seems you dont have a good colony of bacteria yet

--
Paulo
"Ant" > wrote in message
...
> I don't know if anyone's still following this, but I finally got the
> test kits & tested my water (that the fish died in a week ago).
>
> PH: somewhere between 6.0 - 6.4... closer to 6.0
> Ammonia: 1.0 - 2.0 ppm
> Nitrate: 0-5ppm
>
> - Ant
>
>
> On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:53:32 -0500, Ant > wrote:
>
> >Apparently we didn't do something right.
> >
> >We fed our 4 tiny tetras an hour and a half ago & they did their
> >normal feeding-frenzy thing.
> >
> >5 minutes ago my wife heard something jump in the tank. We looked,
> >and 3 were floating dead, and the last was in it's final throes.
> >
> >We've had these little guys for 4 weeks with no problems. I thought
> >the tank had 'cycled' since the white cloudy water had just cleared up
> >early last week, and some algae growth had finally started on the side
> >of the tank. I thought we were in the clear. Seems kind of odd that
> >they'd die so suddenly with no warning.
> >
> >It's a small 2 1/2 gallon tank, with a Whisper water filter (hangs on
> >the side) and a small heater set to 76 degrees. We did our weekly 10%
> >water change yesterday afternoon, treating the water that we added
> >with some Aquasafe chlorine remover.
> >
> >Any ideas on what we did to kill them?
> >
> >And any suggestions on indestructable fish?
> >
> >- Ant
>

[NetMax]

"Ant" > wrote in message
...
> I don't know if anyone's still following this, but I finally got the
> test kits & tested my water (that the fish died in a week ago).
>
> PH: somewhere between 6.0 - 6.4... closer to 6.0
> Ammonia: 1.0 - 2.0 ppm
> Nitrate: 0-5ppm
>
> - Ant

It would be more instructive if you also posted the pH level of the water
you use to fill the tank. You numbers indicate a pH crash, where the
typical cause is over-feeding and an accumulation of rotting detritus has
exhausted the water's buffer and dropped the pH (acidifying the water).
This often occurs with established tanks which didn't have enough
maintenance or are in extremely low kH source water conditions. Research
OTS (old tank syndrome).

Your ammonia levels are quite high, but probably harmless as the low pH
would force the toxic ammonia (NH3) to non-toxic ammonium ion state
(NH4). As long as your pH is low, your ammonia will not kill your fish,
(but the pH and the nitrites will).

A measurement of 5ppm nitrites (NO2) indicates several things. You pH
started much higher, and the nitrosomonas bacteria started establishing
themselves, converting ammonia to NO2. The pH crashed and all the
bacteria started shutting down. Nitrosomonas are inhibited at around
6.5pH. So without the active bacteria, your NO2 stopped increasing and
your NH3/4 started increasing.

The bacteria which converts NO2 to NO3 (can you get an NO3 measurement?)
is affected at more acidic levels (nitrobacter is inhibited at about
6.0pH), so you might now have no active NO2 to NO3 conversion. This is
unfortunate, as the NO2 levels are at toxic levels (5ppm).

I can't recall what your livestock state was. You need to do lots of
small water changes to restore the pH, but not restore the pH so quickly
as to cause your NH4 to turn into toxic NH3. You also need to dilute the
NO2 levels. Ammolock would hold the NH3 to NH4 and aquarium salt might
help the fish to tolerate the high NO2 levels (if your fish are
salt-tolerant).

Basically, your tank is not cycled, and has stopped cycling due to the pH
crash. It's part of the hassle of setting up the first new tank (though
you might have reached unusual heights). Once cycled, it all gets much
easier to do ;o)

ps: You don't need fish to complete the cycling. Just do regular water
changes and when the pH is over 7, and your NH3/4 & NO2 is zero, you're
basically cycled.
NetMax

[Ant]

Thanks for all the detailed info. We decided to start from scratch.
I cleaned everything out, washed the gravel, and filled the 2.5gallon
tank up with fresh tapwater. Added the appropriate amount of
AquaSafe. The pH was at about 6.6-6.8, so I added some pH-Up solution
until it got up to 7.0 (as far as I could tell). Tonight we plan on
picking up a single Zebra Danio to put in the tank for the cycling
process, and will do our best to not overfeed it.

I still have to buy a Nitrite test kit (the pet store was out) so I
can't monitor that yet, but from what I understand it shouldn't be
needed for a week or two anyway with a fresh tank.

So when my pH starts to drop during the cycling phase, will it hurt
for me to add the pH-Up to the water to get it back up to 7.0? Will
this interrupt my cycling process?

Thanks!

- Ant


On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:50:18 -0500, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>
>"Ant" > wrote in message
...
>> I don't know if anyone's still following this, but I finally got the
>> test kits & tested my water (that the fish died in a week ago).
>>
>> PH: somewhere between 6.0 - 6.4... closer to 6.0
>> Ammonia: 1.0 - 2.0 ppm
>> Nitrate: 0-5ppm
>>
>> - Ant
>
>It would be more instructive if you also posted the pH level of the water
>you use to fill the tank. You numbers indicate a pH crash, where the
>typical cause is over-feeding and an accumulation of rotting detritus has
>exhausted the water's buffer and dropped the pH (acidifying the water).
>This often occurs with established tanks which didn't have enough
>maintenance or are in extremely low kH source water conditions. Research
>OTS (old tank syndrome).
>
>Your ammonia levels are quite high, but probably harmless as the low pH
>would force the toxic ammonia (NH3) to non-toxic ammonium ion state
>(NH4). As long as your pH is low, your ammonia will not kill your fish,
>(but the pH and the nitrites will).
>
>A measurement of 5ppm nitrites (NO2) indicates several things. You pH
>started much higher, and the nitrosomonas bacteria started establishing
>themselves, converting ammonia to NO2. The pH crashed and all the
>bacteria started shutting down. Nitrosomonas are inhibited at around
>6.5pH. So without the active bacteria, your NO2 stopped increasing and
>your NH3/4 started increasing.
>
>The bacteria which converts NO2 to NO3 (can you get an NO3 measurement?)
>is affected at more acidic levels (nitrobacter is inhibited at about
>6.0pH), so you might now have no active NO2 to NO3 conversion. This is
>unfortunate, as the NO2 levels are at toxic levels (5ppm).
>
>I can't recall what your livestock state was. You need to do lots of
>small water changes to restore the pH, but not restore the pH so quickly
>as to cause your NH4 to turn into toxic NH3. You also need to dilute the
>NO2 levels. Ammolock would hold the NH3 to NH4 and aquarium salt might
>help the fish to tolerate the high NO2 levels (if your fish are
>salt-tolerant).
>
>Basically, your tank is not cycled, and has stopped cycling due to the pH
>crash. It's part of the hassle of setting up the first new tank (though
>you might have reached unusual heights). Once cycled, it all gets much
>easier to do ;o)
>
>ps: You don't need fish to complete the cycling. Just do regular water
>changes and when the pH is over 7, and your NH3/4 & NO2 is zero, you're
>basically cycled.
>NetMax
>

[NetMax]

It's all here: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html Cycling should
not significantly affect your pH.

I would NOT use any pH altering chemicals before or during cycling, as
the water changes needed to control your toxicity levels will defeat any
pH altering attempts, and will only cause you trouble.

NetMax

"Ant" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for all the detailed info. We decided to start from scratch.
> I cleaned everything out, washed the gravel, and filled the 2.5gallon
> tank up with fresh tapwater. Added the appropriate amount of
> AquaSafe. The pH was at about 6.6-6.8, so I added some pH-Up solution
> until it got up to 7.0 (as far as I could tell). Tonight we plan on
> picking up a single Zebra Danio to put in the tank for the cycling
> process, and will do our best to not overfeed it.
>
> I still have to buy a Nitrite test kit (the pet store was out) so I
> can't monitor that yet, but from what I understand it shouldn't be
> needed for a week or two anyway with a fresh tank.
>
> So when my pH starts to drop during the cycling phase, will it hurt
> for me to add the pH-Up to the water to get it back up to 7.0? Will
> this interrupt my cycling process?
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Ant
>
>
> On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:50:18 -0500, "NetMax"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Ant" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I don't know if anyone's still following this, but I finally got the
> >> test kits & tested my water (that the fish died in a week ago).
> >>
> >> PH: somewhere between 6.0 - 6.4... closer to 6.0
> >> Ammonia: 1.0 - 2.0 ppm
> >> Nitrate: 0-5ppm
> >>
> >> - Ant
> >
> >It would be more instructive if you also posted the pH level of the
water
> >you use to fill the tank. You numbers indicate a pH crash, where the
> >typical cause is over-feeding and an accumulation of rotting detritus
has
> >exhausted the water's buffer and dropped the pH (acidifying the
water).
> >This often occurs with established tanks which didn't have enough
> >maintenance or are in extremely low kH source water conditions.
Research
> >OTS (old tank syndrome).
> >
> >Your ammonia levels are quite high, but probably harmless as the low
pH
> >would force the toxic ammonia (NH3) to non-toxic ammonium ion state
> >(NH4). As long as your pH is low, your ammonia will not kill your
fish,
> >(but the pH and the nitrites will).
> >
> >A measurement of 5ppm nitrites (NO2) indicates several things. You pH
> >started much higher, and the nitrosomonas bacteria started
establishing
> >themselves, converting ammonia to NO2. The pH crashed and all the
> >bacteria started shutting down. Nitrosomonas are inhibited at around
> >6.5pH. So without the active bacteria, your NO2 stopped increasing
and
> >your NH3/4 started increasing.
> >
> >The bacteria which converts NO2 to NO3 (can you get an NO3
measurement?)
> >is affected at more acidic levels (nitrobacter is inhibited at about
> >6.0pH), so you might now have no active NO2 to NO3 conversion. This
is
> >unfortunate, as the NO2 levels are at toxic levels (5ppm).
> >
> >I can't recall what your livestock state was. You need to do lots of
> >small water changes to restore the pH, but not restore the pH so
quickly
> >as to cause your NH4 to turn into toxic NH3. You also need to dilute
the
> >NO2 levels. Ammolock would hold the NH3 to NH4 and aquarium salt
might
> >help the fish to tolerate the high NO2 levels (if your fish are
> >salt-tolerant).
> >
> >Basically, your tank is not cycled, and has stopped cycling due to the
pH
> >crash. It's part of the hassle of setting up the first new tank
(though
> >you might have reached unusual heights). Once cycled, it all gets
much
> >easier to do ;o)
> >
> >ps: You don't need fish to complete the cycling. Just do regular
water
> >changes and when the pH is over 7, and your NH3/4 & NO2 is zero,
you're
> >basically cycled.
> >NetMax
> >
>