Filters

[Paulo]

I am planning to get a new filter for my 30G tank.
I would like to know what is in your experience the mos efficient.
I was reading about Fluval 404, and i heard it is very complicated at the
time to clean it....
Can you guys share your experience with different types and systems?
(UGF/Canister/Internal/Etc)

Thanks

--
Paulo

[Paulo]

I was reading this review:
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/products/product_fluval400.html

I guess tahn a 204 fluval would be better....

When I asked here, i was expecting help form people with more yeras tahn me
with aquarium, and have been experiencing the different offers.

I have a Penguin 170 with biowheel, and i am not so happy whit it. I have to
clean the tube almost everyday becuase any debri that clogg a little it is
enough to stop the run of the biowheel. ALso i have to change the filter
every 2 weeks....once the filter get "dirty" even cleaning it is not
enough...get clogged so fast taht again it is not enough water pressure to
run the biowheel...

Thats the reason i am looking to try a differen system.

Thanks

--
Paulo
"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Paulo" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> > I am planning to get a new filter for my 30G tank.
> > I would like to know what is in your experience the mos efficient.
> > I was reading about Fluval 404, and i heard it is very complicated at
> the
> > time to clean it....
> > Can you guys share your experience with different types and systems?
> > (UGF/Canister/Internal/Etc)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > Paulo
>
> A 404 is complicated?!? I can strip a new 404 down in under a minute.
> Flip 2 valves and 2 handles and it's laid out in front of you. Where is
> your source of information? Note that the 404 is too powerful for your
> 30g, so you seem to be a little off base anyways ;~)
>
> Start here: http://faq.thekrib.com/filters.html#types
>
> Then visit your LFS and have them assembly and disassemble the various
> models of filters they have, canisters, powerfilters & internal filters.
> Try to visit a couple more LFS to see how the competing brands compare in
> maintenance. Ask if they have any filters in operation which you could
> look at. Check which need proprietary materials. While there you can
> check out their fish, and compare prices and quality ;~).
>
> ps: imo, the time it takes to service a canister or a powerfilter is not
> really a deciding factor, as they are all very similar. I look at filter
> media surface area, is media included, what media does it hold, is it
> reusable or disposable, visible indicators for service needed etc.
>
> NetMax
>
>

[NetMax]

"Paulo" > wrote in message
.. .
> I was reading this review:
> http://badmanstropicalfish.com/products/product_fluval400.html

You think that this has any credibility?
From: Anonymous
Date: NA
A very efficient filter, but requires too much time in cleaning.

> I guess tahn a 204 fluval would be better....
>
> When I asked here, i was expecting help form people with more yeras
tahn me
> with aquarium, and have been experiencing the different offers.
>
> I have a Penguin 170 with biowheel, and i am not so happy whit it. I
have to
> clean the tube almost everyday becuase any debri that clogg a little it
is
> enough to stop the run of the biowheel. ALso i have to change the
filter
> every 2 weeks....once the filter get "dirty" even cleaning it is not
> enough...get clogged so fast taht again it is not enough water pressure
to
> run the biowheel...

The Penguin 170, and most of the bio-wheel equipped systems use a
vertical cartridge as their mechanical filter. It's not a large surface
area so would suffer from a very heavy bio-load. You might clean around
the axle of the bio-wheel so it turns more easily, and the impeller, for
any restrictions. A pre-filter might help you (sponge at the input).
Basically, I think you need a bigger filter. The 170 would work much
better if it had a friend carrying some of the load. For lots of media
area (and since you already have the bio-wheel capability), I'd go with a
double sponge set-up on an AquaClear 200. Nothing fancy, just cheap &
powerful. If you wanted a canister, then there are several options.
I'll stick to my first suggestion which is to take some apart and see how
they go together, and what materials they use. There are no real dogs
that I know of, so I think that your preference and the price you will
pay will be the deciding factors.

Considering how quickly you are clogging your 170, a UGF or an internal
is probably not a good option. I'd go with a 2nd filter, either canister
or another powerfilter. jmo

NetMax


> Thats the reason i am looking to try a differen system.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Paulo
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > "Paulo" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > >
> > > I am planning to get a new filter for my 30G tank.
> > > I would like to know what is in your experience the mos efficient.
> > > I was reading about Fluval 404, and i heard it is very complicated
at
> > the
> > > time to clean it....
> > > Can you guys share your experience with different types and
systems?
> > > (UGF/Canister/Internal/Etc)
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > --
> > > Paulo
> >
> > A 404 is complicated?!? I can strip a new 404 down in under a
minute.
> > Flip 2 valves and 2 handles and it's laid out in front of you. Where
is
> > your source of information? Note that the 404 is too powerful for
your
> > 30g, so you seem to be a little off base anyways ;~)
> >
> > Start here: http://faq.thekrib.com/filters.html#types
> >
> > Then visit your LFS and have them assembly and disassemble the
various
> > models of filters they have, canisters, powerfilters & internal
filters.
> > Try to visit a couple more LFS to see how the competing brands
compare in
> > maintenance. Ask if they have any filters in operation which you
could
> > look at. Check which need proprietary materials. While there you
can
> > check out their fish, and compare prices and quality ;~).
> >
> > ps: imo, the time it takes to service a canister or a powerfilter is
not
> > really a deciding factor, as they are all very similar. I look at
filter
> > media surface area, is media included, what media does it hold, is it
> > reusable or disposable, visible indicators for service needed etc.
> >
> > NetMax
> >
> >
>
>

[Paulo]

Thanks a lot, I will check the options you have mentioned.

--
Paulo
"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Paulo" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > I was reading this review:
> > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/products/product_fluval400.html
>
> You think that this has any credibility?
> From: Anonymous
> Date: NA
> A very efficient filter, but requires too much time in cleaning.
>
> > I guess tahn a 204 fluval would be better....
> >
> > When I asked here, i was expecting help form people with more yeras
> tahn me
> > with aquarium, and have been experiencing the different offers.
> >
> > I have a Penguin 170 with biowheel, and i am not so happy whit it. I
> have to
> > clean the tube almost everyday becuase any debri that clogg a little it
> is
> > enough to stop the run of the biowheel. ALso i have to change the
> filter
> > every 2 weeks....once the filter get "dirty" even cleaning it is not
> > enough...get clogged so fast taht again it is not enough water pressure
> to
> > run the biowheel...
>
> The Penguin 170, and most of the bio-wheel equipped systems use a
> vertical cartridge as their mechanical filter. It's not a large surface
> area so would suffer from a very heavy bio-load. You might clean around
> the axle of the bio-wheel so it turns more easily, and the impeller, for
> any restrictions. A pre-filter might help you (sponge at the input).
> Basically, I think you need a bigger filter. The 170 would work much
> better if it had a friend carrying some of the load. For lots of media
> area (and since you already have the bio-wheel capability), I'd go with a
> double sponge set-up on an AquaClear 200. Nothing fancy, just cheap &
> powerful. If you wanted a canister, then there are several options.
> I'll stick to my first suggestion which is to take some apart and see how
> they go together, and what materials they use. There are no real dogs
> that I know of, so I think that your preference and the price you will
> pay will be the deciding factors.
>
> Considering how quickly you are clogging your 170, a UGF or an internal
> is probably not a good option. I'd go with a 2nd filter, either canister
> or another powerfilter. jmo
>
> NetMax
>
>
> > Thats the reason i am looking to try a differen system.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > Paulo
> > "NetMax" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > >
> > > "Paulo" > wrote in message
> > > .. .
> > > >
> > > > I am planning to get a new filter for my 30G tank.
> > > > I would like to know what is in your experience the mos efficient.
> > > > I was reading about Fluval 404, and i heard it is very complicated
> at
> > > the
> > > > time to clean it....
> > > > Can you guys share your experience with different types and
> systems?
> > > > (UGF/Canister/Internal/Etc)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Paulo
> > >
> > > A 404 is complicated?!? I can strip a new 404 down in under a
> minute.
> > > Flip 2 valves and 2 handles and it's laid out in front of you. Where
> is
> > > your source of information? Note that the 404 is too powerful for
> your
> > > 30g, so you seem to be a little off base anyways ;~)
> > >
> > > Start here: http://faq.thekrib.com/filters.html#types
> > >
> > > Then visit your LFS and have them assembly and disassemble the
> various
> > > models of filters they have, canisters, powerfilters & internal
> filters.
> > > Try to visit a couple more LFS to see how the competing brands
> compare in
> > > maintenance. Ask if they have any filters in operation which you
> could
> > > look at. Check which need proprietary materials. While there you
> can
> > > check out their fish, and compare prices and quality ;~).
> > >
> > > ps: imo, the time it takes to service a canister or a powerfilter is
> not
> > > really a deciding factor, as they are all very similar. I look at
> filter
> > > media surface area, is media included, what media does it hold, is it
> > > reusable or disposable, visible indicators for service needed etc.
> > >
> > > NetMax
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[james mitchell]

> I am planning to get a new filter for my 30G tank.
> I would like to know what is in your experience the mos efficient.
> I was reading about Fluval 404, and i heard it is very complicated at the
> time to clean it....
> Can you guys share your experience with different types and systems?
> (UGF/Canister/Internal/Etc)

Here's my suggestion:

Keep your penguin running and get a second power filter. Maybe an aquaclear
200. These filters are very easy to maintain and have a good amount of
media surface area for bio-filtration. Skip the carbon and use bio-media
(Bio-max, second foam block, etc.) in the upper half of the media
compartment. You can use the penguin cartridge for carbon.

Unless you have one of the following, you really don't need a canister:
1) live plants with CO2 injection
2) tank very close to the back wall
3) slow fish which don't like much water movement

Two power filters should give you good bio-filtration unless your tank is
VERY heavily stocked.

Also, you may be overfeeding if your filter is clogging so fast. What
species of fish do you have?

Jim

[Paulo]

I have a Mesonauta Festivum, 2 blue rams, 5 neon, 5 rasboras harlequin, 5
rummy nose, 1 SAE, 1 leopard pleco...also I have 6 females guppies taht are
leaving the tank in 2 days.



--
Paulo
"james mitchell" > wrote in message
. ..
> > I am planning to get a new filter for my 30G tank.
> > I would like to know what is in your experience the mos efficient.
> > I was reading about Fluval 404, and i heard it is very complicated at
the
> > time to clean it....
> > Can you guys share your experience with different types and systems?
> > (UGF/Canister/Internal/Etc)
>
> Here's my suggestion:
>
> Keep your penguin running and get a second power filter. Maybe an
aquaclear
> 200. These filters are very easy to maintain and have a good amount of
> media surface area for bio-filtration. Skip the carbon and use bio-media
> (Bio-max, second foam block, etc.) in the upper half of the media
> compartment. You can use the penguin cartridge for carbon.
>
> Unless you have one of the following, you really don't need a canister:
> 1) live plants with CO2 injection
> 2) tank very close to the back wall
> 3) slow fish which don't like much water movement
>
> Two power filters should give you good bio-filtration unless your tank is
> VERY heavily stocked.
>
> Also, you may be overfeeding if your filter is clogging so fast. What
> species of fish do you have?
>
> Jim
>
>
>

[james mitchell]

This doesn't sound like too much to me although you probably don't have room
for anything else. You definately need more than just the Penguin for a
healthy tank. The pleco itself creates a heavy bio-load. I have a 5" bushy
nose in my 90 gallon that generates as much waste as the rest of the fish
combined. He's great for keeping the tank algae fee though.

Jim




"Paulo" > wrote in message
.. .
> I have a Mesonauta Festivum, 2 blue rams, 5 neon, 5 rasboras harlequin, 5
> rummy nose, 1 SAE, 1 leopard pleco...also I have 6 females guppies taht
are
> leaving the tank in 2 days.
>
>
>
> --
> Paulo
> "james mitchell" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > > I am planning to get a new filter for my 30G tank.
> > > I would like to know what is in your experience the mos efficient.
> > > I was reading about Fluval 404, and i heard it is very complicated at
> the
> > > time to clean it....
> > > Can you guys share your experience with different types and systems?
> > > (UGF/Canister/Internal/Etc)
> >
> > Here's my suggestion:
> >
> > Keep your penguin running and get a second power filter. Maybe an
> aquaclear
> > 200. These filters are very easy to maintain and have a good amount of
> > media surface area for bio-filtration. Skip the carbon and use
bio-media
> > (Bio-max, second foam block, etc.) in the upper half of the media
> > compartment. You can use the penguin cartridge for carbon.
> >
> > Unless you have one of the following, you really don't need a canister:
> > 1) live plants with CO2 injection
> > 2) tank very close to the back wall
> > 3) slow fish which don't like much water movement
> >
> > Two power filters should give you good bio-filtration unless your tank
is
> > VERY heavily stocked.
> >
> > Also, you may be overfeeding if your filter is clogging so fast. What
> > species of fish do you have?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Dan J. S.]

Paulo wrote:
> I am planning to get a new filter for my 30G tank.
> I would like to know what is in your experience the mos efficient.
> I was reading about Fluval 404, and i heard it is very complicated at
> the time to clean it....
> Can you guys share your experience with different types and systems?
> (UGF/Canister/Internal/Etc)
>
> Thanks

Fluvals leak a lot. Not something you want to think about when out enjoying
a 3 day weekend. I had 3 fluvals leak on me (bought last year - 404 models).
Usually takes 6 months. The test? Turn a fluval off after it was running for
5 months, and see what happens. It usually can't take the back pressure.
After bitching to Hagen, I finally got a tech on the line who admitted that
under certain conditions they do leak. In my case, I have a tank that is 4
feet tall. My intake was towards the bottom of the tank, so I had more than
the usual amount of water pressure. I finally bought 2 Eheim (2028) filters.
So far so good!

Dan

[Paulo]

Thanks for the info..i dont wanna expend $180 and find out it is not working
properly! I will check into Eheim

--
Paulo
"Dan J. S." > wrote in message
...
> Paulo wrote:
> > I am planning to get a new filter for my 30G tank.
> > I would like to know what is in your experience the mos efficient.
> > I was reading about Fluval 404, and i heard it is very complicated at
> > the time to clean it....
> > Can you guys share your experience with different types and systems?
> > (UGF/Canister/Internal/Etc)
> >
> > Thanks
>
> Fluvals leak a lot. Not something you want to think about when out
enjoying
> a 3 day weekend. I had 3 fluvals leak on me (bought last year - 404
models).
> Usually takes 6 months. The test? Turn a fluval off after it was running
for
> 5 months, and see what happens. It usually can't take the back pressure.
> After bitching to Hagen, I finally got a tech on the line who admitted
that
> under certain conditions they do leak. In my case, I have a tank that is 4
> feet tall. My intake was towards the bottom of the tank, so I had more
than
> the usual amount of water pressure. I finally bought 2 Eheim (2028)
filters.
> So far so good!
>
> Dan
>
>

[NetMax]

I've busted the impeller on my Eheim, twice. I guess those are no good
too ;~) I also have a dozen Fluvals running over a year, no leaks so
far. If they leaked, I'd be complaining. I do have a Fluval 201 which
was not pressure tolerant as Dan described, but this is an antique (and
still working). Do check into Eheim and all the others, just like I said
:o)

NetMax

"Paulo" > wrote in message
.. .
> Thanks for the info..i dont wanna expend $180 and find out it is not
working
> properly! I will check into Eheim
>
> --
> Paulo
> "Dan J. S." > wrote in message
> ...
> > Paulo wrote:
> > > I am planning to get a new filter for my 30G tank.
> > > I would like to know what is in your experience the mos efficient.
> > > I was reading about Fluval 404, and i heard it is very complicated
at
> > > the time to clean it....
> > > Can you guys share your experience with different types and
systems?
> > > (UGF/Canister/Internal/Etc)
> > >
> > > Thanks
> >
> > Fluvals leak a lot. Not something you want to think about when out
> enjoying
> > a 3 day weekend. I had 3 fluvals leak on me (bought last year - 404
> models).
> > Usually takes 6 months. The test? Turn a fluval off after it was
running
> for
> > 5 months, and see what happens. It usually can't take the back
pressure.
> > After bitching to Hagen, I finally got a tech on the line who
admitted
> that
> > under certain conditions they do leak. In my case, I have a tank that
is 4
> > feet tall. My intake was towards the bottom of the tank, so I had
more
> than
> > the usual amount of water pressure. I finally bought 2 Eheim (2028)
> filters.
> > So far so good!
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
>
>

[Dan J. S.]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> I've busted the impeller on my Eheim, twice. I guess those are no good
> too ;~) I also have a dozen Fluvals running over a year, no leaks so
> far. If they leaked, I'd be complaining. I do have a Fluval 201 which
> was not pressure tolerant as Dan described, but this is an antique (and
> still working). Do check into Eheim and all the others, just like I said
> :o)

Netmax, I had a lot of leaking problems last year. Someone cursed me, I
think! I went through two 150 gallon tanks, both sprang leaks as well.
Turned out to be a manufacturing defect at Perfecto. Between the fluvals and
the tanks, I also spent $400 repairing my hard wood floor. Anyway, I just
got a brand new Acrylic tank, that is 120 gallons and is not supposed to
leak. With the two Eheims, I hope it lasts!!

[Dan J. S.]

"Paulo" > wrote in message
.. .
> Thanks for the info..i dont wanna expend $180 and find out it is not
working
> properly! I will check into Eheim
>
> --
> Paulo

Paulo, go to google groups:

http://www.google.com/grphp?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=&tab=wg

and search on "fluval leaking".

Also, a fluval 404 is only $95(U.S. Dollars) at big al's online. You can get
a 2028 Eheim with all the media for $199 at the same place too:

http://www.bigalsonline.com/splash.html


I also like the penguin emperor filters, they provide nice bio filtration
(mechanical filtration is just OK), but they tend to be loud. By loud I mean
the water splashing, from the bio wheels.

[NetMax]

"Dan J. S." > wrote in message
...
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > I've busted the impeller on my Eheim, twice. I guess those are no
good
> > too ;~) I also have a dozen Fluvals running over a year, no leaks so
> > far. If they leaked, I'd be complaining. I do have a Fluval 201
which
> > was not pressure tolerant as Dan described, but this is an antique
(and
> > still working). Do check into Eheim and all the others, just like I
said
> > :o)
>
> Netmax, I had a lot of leaking problems last year. Someone cursed me, I
> think! I went through two 150 gallon tanks, both sprang leaks as well.
> Turned out to be a manufacturing defect at Perfecto. Between the
fluvals and
> the tanks, I also spent $400 repairing my hard wood floor. Anyway, I
just
> got a brand new Acrylic tank, that is 120 gallons and is not supposed
to
> leak. With the two Eheims, I hope it lasts!!

I think I remember you talking about your problem with the Perfectos.
Now that's a PITA tank size to take back to the store.

The earlier Fluval 404 (initial release) had leakage issues. They
re-designed and fixed it, but unfortunately did not rename it. It's
actually had a few minor design changes since, but they are water-tight.
I have them at home, at work and it's one of the models I sell. Every
filter defect or problem is brought to my attention, as I'm the dept. mgr
and deal with all fish equipment suppliers. I can't tell you how many
Fluvals we sell (confidential info ;~), but it's a lot. The Fluvals
don't come back. In over a year, I've had 1 broken impeller (which we
broke), 2 broken handles (which we replace free, and then people don't
try to force the handle when the filter motor is installed backwards),
and one fellow couldn't figure out where the gasket went (so I installed
it for him, and off he went). I also order all the spare parts, so
off-warranty defects would appear here, but I don't do much business in
spare bits, just the odd pink curved impellers for older Fluvals. I'm
really pleased with the latest Fluvals, so I don't mind mentioning them
in the newsgroup.

There are other filters which I don't like, but I try not to talk about
them. It's sometimes a matter of personal taste, and other times it's
bad experiences, (or bad luck). Also every manufacturer has the odd
defect. It's the basic design flaws which really bug me, so occasionally
I do gripe a little.

Best of luck with whatever works for you. I had a customer in looking
for Cardinal tetras, and since I was sold out, I directed him to another
LFS where I'd been a few days earlier and spotted some really nice
specimens. He looked insulted and said that he only buys fish from me.
I smiled and told him, "sometimes the best fish are where you find them".
I put the customer first, and when you have a recipe which works for you
(with fish, filters whatever) then I'm the last person to talk you into
changing anything.

cheers
NetMax

[Bowling_Guy]

I'm setting up a new tank myself and have been doing a ton of research and
asking people who have had or have all the major canister filters. I'm
finding that Filstar seems to be the choice of many people who are in the
trade. I just got my XP3 today. I really like the feel of it and the quick
disconnect of the tubes. My only gripe is that they don't give you a whole
lot of hose. From reading I have come to the conclusion that all the major
canister filters do the same thing so you're buying convenience, durability
and reliability. I also read a lot of rave reviews on the Eheims too.
Several people told me they had both the Eheims and the Filstar and liked
the Filstar better. Everyone has an opinion so take my research for what
it's worth, Also, keep in mind that the FIlstar comes with minimal media.

"Dan J. S." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Paulo" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Thanks for the info..i dont wanna expend $180 and find out it is not
> working
> > properly! I will check into Eheim
> >
> > --
> > Paulo
>
> Paulo, go to google groups:
>
> http://www.google.com/grphp?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=&tab=wg
>
> and search on "fluval leaking".
>
> Also, a fluval 404 is only $95(U.S. Dollars) at big al's online. You can
get
> a 2028 Eheim with all the media for $199 at the same place too:
>
> http://www.bigalsonline.com/splash.html
>
>
> I also like the penguin emperor filters, they provide nice bio filtration
> (mechanical filtration is just OK), but they tend to be loud. By loud I
mean
> the water splashing, from the bio wheels.
>
>

[Dan J. S.]

> I think I remember you talking about your problem with the Perfectos.
> Now that's a PITA tank size to take back to the store.
>
> The earlier Fluval 404 (initial release) had leakage issues. They
> re-designed and fixed it, but unfortunately did not rename it. It's
> actually had a few minor design changes since, but they are water-tight.
> I have them at home, at work and it's one of the models I sell. Every
> filter defect or problem is brought to my attention, as I'm the dept. mgr
> and deal with all fish equipment suppliers. I can't tell you how many
> Fluvals we sell (confidential info ;~), but it's a lot. The Fluvals
> don't come back. In over a year, I've had 1 broken impeller (which we
> broke), 2 broken handles (which we replace free, and then people don't
> try to force the handle when the filter motor is installed backwards),
> and one fellow couldn't figure out where the gasket went (so I installed
> it for him, and off he went). I also order all the spare parts, so
> off-warranty defects would appear here, but I don't do much business in
> spare bits, just the odd pink curved impellers for older Fluvals. I'm
> really pleased with the latest Fluvals, so I don't mind mentioning them
> in the newsgroup.
>
> There are other filters which I don't like, but I try not to talk about
> them. It's sometimes a matter of personal taste, and other times it's
> bad experiences, (or bad luck). Also every manufacturer has the odd
> defect. It's the basic design flaws which really bug me, so occasionally
> I do gripe a little.
>
> Best of luck with whatever works for you. I had a customer in looking
> for Cardinal tetras, and since I was sold out, I directed him to another
> LFS where I'd been a few days earlier and spotted some really nice
> specimens. He looked insulted and said that he only buys fish from me.
> I smiled and told him, "sometimes the best fish are where you find them".
> I put the customer first, and when you have a recipe which works for you
> (with fish, filters whatever) then I'm the last person to talk you into
> changing anything.
>
> cheers
> NetMax
>
>

My LFS was nice enough to come out both times, take the leaky tanks out and
also deliver the new Acrylic. Glad you are being so good to your clients!! I
used to work at an Aquarium store in Chicago. It's called Animal Kingdom.
This was 18 years ago (when I was 16).

[Alan Silver]

>I am planning to get a new filter for my 30G tank.
>I would like to know what is in your experience the mos efficient.
>I was reading about Fluval 404, and i heard it is very complicated at the
>time to clean it....
>Can you guys share your experience with different types and systems?
>(UGF/Canister/Internal/Etc)

FWIW I got an Eheim Ecco 2235 recently and I'm not impressed with it.
Very poor design means that I have to fight with it to get the lid back
on after cleaning. Very often I go back an hour or so later and find
that the lid has worked loose. Even when working at it's best, it's very
noisy.

My neighbour has a Fluval external (not sure which one, his tank is
about 100 litres) and it is so quiet you can't hear it at all. He's
never had any bother with it either.

HTH

--
Alan Silver
PSG Fish Tanks - http://fish.alansilver.co.uk/