A little off topic - hopefully not too much....

[Daniel Morrow]

I have a 55 gallon tank I want to use for three small turtles and some
fish. The tank will be about 3/4 full of water and have an island in
the middle of it and that island will have real plants from the local
greenhouse in it's soil. The island will be supported by a tower of
cheap empty Tupperware boxes to prevent too much of a weight load on
the tank's glassy bottom. There will be pond vine plastic plants
covering the island's and tower's sides for good looks and a way for
the turtles to crawl onto land and otherwise get out of the water. For
fish I plan on guppies and maybe a couple of goldfish. I already have
a filter system pretty much set up and it is a bio wheel 60 which will
either be mounted like normal (on the tank's rim) or suspended from
the rim from a loktite valve device and airline tubing. My question is
this: can anyone here recommend any good newsgroups that I could use
to research and select the right kind of very small tropical turtles
for my tank (hopefully easy to care for)? Which one(s) (newsgroups)? I
also already have two submersible ebo jager (250 watts each) heaters
to keep the tank tropical. Thanks.

[Dinky]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
m...
> I have a 55 gallon tank I want to use for three small turtles and some
> fish. The tank will be about 3/4 full of water and have an island in
> the middle of it and that island will have real plants from the local
> greenhouse in it's soil. The island will be supported by a tower of
> cheap empty Tupperware boxes to prevent too much of a weight load on
> the tank's glassy bottom. There will be pond vine plastic plants
>

Ah, my friend that has turtles FEEDS them guppies and goldfish. Your system,
to me, doesn't seem "sustainable". <g>

YMMV!

billy

[NetMax]

"Dinky" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
> m...
> > I have a 55 gallon tank I want to use for three small turtles and
some
> > fish. The tank will be about 3/4 full of water and have an island in
> > the middle of it and that island will have real plants from the local
> > greenhouse in it's soil. The island will be supported by a tower of
> > cheap empty Tupperware boxes to prevent too much of a weight load on
> > the tank's glassy bottom. There will be pond vine plastic plants
> >
>
> Ah, my friend that has turtles FEEDS them guppies and goldfish. Your
system,
> to me, doesn't seem "sustainable". <g>
>
> YMMV!
>
> billy

Maybe we could interest you in a few frogs instead? The African dwarf
frog is fish friendly, and is fully aquatic. Some red-belly fire newts
would enjoy your island, and are relatively fish friendly.

NetMax

[blove]

try rec.pets.herp lotsa turtle people there. the turtles will munch on the
goldfish and guppies, also turtles poop ALOT and it will be way too much for
the fish to handle. also there might be fights breaking out between the
turtles. its also illegal for places to sell turtles under 4 inches and the
common aquatic turtles that pop into my mind are red ear sliders and painted
turtles, red ear sliders get 9 inches and painted turtles get 8 inches. all
turtles need uva/uvb lighting. Reptisun 5.0 is the best and needs to be
replaced every 6 months. also the turtles need to get within 8 inches of
the bulb without getting burned. and they need a basking spot on land too.
turtles are high maintenance and alot of research should be done before
buying.

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
m...
> I have a 55 gallon tank I want to use for three small turtles and some
> fish. The tank will be about 3/4 full of water and have an island in
> the middle of it and that island will have real plants from the local
> greenhouse in it's soil. The island will be supported by a tower of
> cheap empty Tupperware boxes to prevent too much of a weight load on
> the tank's glassy bottom. There will be pond vine plastic plants
> covering the island's and tower's sides for good looks and a way for
> the turtles to crawl onto land and otherwise get out of the water. For
> fish I plan on guppies and maybe a couple of goldfish. I already have
> a filter system pretty much set up and it is a bio wheel 60 which will
> either be mounted like normal (on the tank's rim) or suspended from
> the rim from a loktite valve device and airline tubing. My question is
> this: can anyone here recommend any good newsgroups that I could use
> to research and select the right kind of very small tropical turtles
> for my tank (hopefully easy to care for)? Which one(s) (newsgroups)? I
> also already have two submersible ebo jager (250 watts each) heaters
> to keep the tank tropical. Thanks.

[rtk]

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/NewCritterWebStuff/NewTurtleTank.html
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/NewCritterWebStuff/NewCritterPage.html

From my experience I would say the fish can survive in near sewer
conditions, which is pretty much what they get in my 120 gallon tank
that I only clean once per three weeks. There have been some changes
since I put up the above page. The five Convicts produced a few hundred
babies, so I had to clear out all except one male who is now six inches
and still barely keeps the guppy situation controlled. I also have
giant Danios and several other cichlids who needed to escape a hostile
environment from their own tank. All attempts I made to have a pretty
island failed totally when the little monsters came out to bask and
trampled over everything. I have another tank with toads and African
frogs as well as too many guppies and plecos, cat fish, Platies and
Mollies where I can sustain a nice island held up by glass bricks.

rtk

Daniel Morrow wrote:
> I have a 55 gallon tank I want to use for three small turtles and some
> fish. The tank will be about 3/4 full of water and have an island in
> the middle of it and that island will have real plants from the local
> greenhouse in it's soil. The island will be supported by a tower of
> cheap empty Tupperware boxes to prevent too much of a weight load on
> the tank's glassy bottom. There will be pond vine plastic plants
> covering the island's and tower's sides for good looks and a way for
> the turtles to crawl onto land and otherwise get out of the water. For
> fish I plan on guppies and maybe a couple of goldfish. I already have
> a filter system pretty much set up and it is a bio wheel 60 which will
> either be mounted like normal (on the tank's rim) or suspended from
> the rim from a loktite valve device and airline tubing. My question is
> this: can anyone here recommend any good newsgroups that I could use
> to research and select the right kind of very small tropical turtles
> for my tank (hopefully easy to care for)? Which one(s) (newsgroups)? I
> also already have two submersible ebo jager (250 watts each) heaters
> to keep the tank tropical. Thanks.

[rtk]

blove wrote:

> try rec.pets.herp lotsa turtle people there. the turtles will munch on the
> goldfish and guppies, also turtles poop ALOT and it will be way too much for
> the fish to handle. also there might be fights breaking out between the
> turtles. its also illegal for places to sell turtles under 4 inches and the
> common aquatic turtles that pop into my mind are red ear sliders and painted
> turtles, red ear sliders get 9 inches and painted turtles get 8 inches. all
> turtles need uva/uvb lighting. Reptisun 5.0 is the best and needs to be
> replaced every 6 months. also the turtles need to get within 8 inches of
> the bulb without getting burned. and they need a basking spot on land too.
> turtles are high maintenance and alot of research should be done before
> buying.

I agree with all of the above. I use two bulbs, changing one every 6
months, so they have effectively 1 1/2 uvb bulbs. I think 55 gallons
will work for several months and then will be too small for sliders and
painted turtles, but little musk or mud turtles would be nice. They
only sneak out of the water at night, so maybe a pretty island would be
sustainable. Although they can not be sold, they can be given to you or
they can be obtained for a bona fide research project. Even a pet shop
is allowed to give them away, off premises and definitely for nothing.
The rules are good although not for their purpose. If a child puts a
little turtle in its mouth, he/she could get salmonella. As if touching
a four inch turtle and putting fingers in one's mouth couldn't transmit
the disease easily enough. However, the rule prevents the old custom of
selling baby turtles to be placed in a little bowl, where they died
slowly. I wish there were a similar rule for goldfish.

rtk

[Daniel Morrow]

Thanks for the information guys - are red bellied fire newts tropical
(i.e. what temperature do they need and what is their range?)? I must
say I am very disappointed about my slim pickings options I have for
turtles according to you guys. I'm not saying any of you are wrong but
man - turtle size, salmonella, turtle waste products.... I just wanted
to have three turtles in my 55 gallon tank and someone special to me
was looking forward to them. I wouldn't have minded it if the turtles
munched on the fish some though. Oh well, better I find out this way
for sure so I give all of you a genuine thanks and will check out
rec.pets.herp . Later and please let me know about them newts - ok?
Thanks.

[rtk]

I didn't mean to discourage you. I enjoy my three turtles: one red
slider, one painted, one mud. If I had a 55 gallon tank instead of my
120, then I would still get the mud and a couple other small ones. They
can't catch any fish in my tank. I'm not worried about salmonella and
the tank does just fine on my once per three week 30% cleaning. I have
the newts and african frogs in a different tank, but it's the turtles
that I really enjoy most. I also have two freshwater tanks without
herps plus a sal****er tank. The turtles plus Convict plus Danios plus
other fish are are my favorites. They don't eat the guppies.
Reconsider getting turtles.

rtk
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/NewCritterWebStuff/NewCritterPage.html

Daniel Morrow wrote:
> Thanks for the information guys - are red bellied fire newts tropical
> (i.e. what temperature do they need and what is their range?)? I must
> say I am very disappointed about my slim pickings options I have for
> turtles according to you guys. I'm not saying any of you are wrong but
> man - turtle size, salmonella, turtle waste products.... I just wanted
> to have three turtles in my 55 gallon tank and someone special to me
> was looking forward to them. I wouldn't have minded it if the turtles
> munched on the fish some though. Oh well, better I find out this way
> for sure so I give all of you a genuine thanks and will check out
> rec.pets.herp . Later and please let me know about them newts - ok?
> Thanks.

[MarAzul]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
om...
> Thanks for the information guys - are red bellied fire newts tropical
> (i.e. what temperature do they need and what is their range?)? I must
> say I am very disappointed about my slim pickings options I have for
> turtles according to you guys. I'm not saying any of you are wrong but
> man - turtle size, salmonella, turtle waste products.... I just wanted
> to have three turtles in my 55 gallon tank and someone special to me
> was looking forward to them. I wouldn't have minded it if the turtles
> munched on the fish some though. Oh well, better I find out this way
> for sure so I give all of you a genuine thanks and will check out
> rec.pets.herp . Later and please let me know about them newts - ok?
> Thanks.

Just FYI, and not to discourage... Newts also have the potential to be
carriers or salmonella. This is true for all reptiles. I was thinking of
creating a fire newt tank but they are notorious escape artists and I have
cats. I didn't want to take the small risk that something may happen.

Mar
------------------------------------------------
"I meant," said Ipslore, bitterly,"what is there in this world that makes
living worthwhile?"

Death thought about it.
"Cats," he said eventually, "Cats are nice."

-Terry Pratchett, 'Sourcery'

[blove]

also newts have toxins in the skin. and it is bad ot handle them because
the oils on our hands will hurt their skin


"MarAzul" > wrote in message
news:Y%EVb.35051$QJ3.1135@fed1read04...
>
> "Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Thanks for the information guys - are red bellied fire newts tropical
> > (i.e. what temperature do they need and what is their range?)? I must
> > say I am very disappointed about my slim pickings options I have for
> > turtles according to you guys. I'm not saying any of you are wrong but
> > man - turtle size, salmonella, turtle waste products.... I just wanted
> > to have three turtles in my 55 gallon tank and someone special to me
> > was looking forward to them. I wouldn't have minded it if the turtles
> > munched on the fish some though. Oh well, better I find out this way
> > for sure so I give all of you a genuine thanks and will check out
> > rec.pets.herp . Later and please let me know about them newts - ok?
> > Thanks.
>
> Just FYI, and not to discourage... Newts also have the potential to be
> carriers or salmonella. This is true for all reptiles. I was thinking of
> creating a fire newt tank but they are notorious escape artists and I have
> cats. I didn't want to take the small risk that something may happen.
>
> Mar
> ------------------------------------------------
> "I meant," said Ipslore, bitterly,"what is there in this world that makes
> living worthwhile?"
>
> Death thought about it.
> "Cats," he said eventually, "Cats are nice."
>
> -Terry Pratchett, 'Sourcery'
>
>

[Daniel Morrow]

rtk > wrote in message >...
> I didn't mean to discourage you. I enjoy my three turtles: one red
> slider, one painted, one mud. If I had a 55 gallon tank instead of my
> 120, then I would still get the mud and a couple other small ones. They
> can't catch any fish in my tank. I'm not worried about salmonella and
> the tank does just fine on my once per three week 30% cleaning. I have
> the newts and african frogs in a different tank, but it's the turtles
> that I really enjoy most. I also have two freshwater tanks without
> herps plus a sal****er tank. The turtles plus Convict plus Danios plus
> other fish are are my favorites. They don't eat the guppies.
> Reconsider getting turtles.
>
> rtk
> http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/NewCritterWebStuff/NewCritterPage.html
>
> Daniel Morrow wrote:
> > Thanks for the information guys - are red bellied fire newts tropical
> > (i.e. what temperature do they need and what is their range?)? I must
> > say I am very disappointed about my slim pickings options I have for
> > turtles according to you guys. I'm not saying any of you are wrong but
> > man - turtle size, salmonella, turtle waste products.... I just wanted
> > to have three turtles in my 55 gallon tank and someone special to me
> > was looking forward to them. I wouldn't have minded it if the turtles
> > munched on the fish some though. Oh well, better I find out this way
> > for sure so I give all of you a genuine thanks and will check out
> > rec.pets.herp . Later and please let me know about them newts - ok?
> > Thanks.

Thanks for the info. I am currently reconsidering turtles and have
began a thread at rec.pets.herps about what would be my best choice
and you have helped in that regard (so far it looks like mud turtles
could be the right answer). What temperature range do mud turtles
have? Cool. I am not worried about salmonella anymore because if I
never got it during those 7 years of handling a California newt (looks
a lot like and might be fire bellied newts as far as I know) which I
had to get rid of 10 years ago (I gave it to a pet store) then I
shouldn't get it from turtles within reason (i.e. I wash my hands
often), I did just read that newts can give you salmonella too. BTW -
I had that newt in a 15 gallon tank with mosquito fish and a small dry
island and fed the newt for the first few years on live earthworms
then fed it tetra reptomin which it ate excellently. Don't worry guys
- I know money doesn't mean everything but in the regard of taking
care of my pets I have plenty of money for what I have planned as long
as I don't plan to have a salt water tank. And don't get me wrong - I
love sal****er tanks what with all kinds of weird and bizarre
creatures and things. It's just that for me they're too expensive.
Although getting all medications is too expensive I should be able to
get most any medication for either the turtles or fish in a few days
after onset of illness unless my transportation is bad or failing.
Later!

[Daniel Morrow]

"MarAzul" > wrote in message news:<Y%EVb.35051$QJ3.1135@fed1read04>...
> "Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Thanks for the information guys - are red bellied fire newts tropical
> > (i.e. what temperature do they need and what is their range?)? I must
> > say I am very disappointed about my slim pickings options I have for
> > turtles according to you guys. I'm not saying any of you are wrong but
> > man - turtle size, salmonella, turtle waste products.... I just wanted
> > to have three turtles in my 55 gallon tank and someone special to me
> > was looking forward to them. I wouldn't have minded it if the turtles
> > munched on the fish some though. Oh well, better I find out this way
> > for sure so I give all of you a genuine thanks and will check out
> > rec.pets.herp . Later and please let me know about them newts - ok?
> > Thanks.
>
> Just FYI, and not to discourage... Newts also have the potential to be
> carriers or salmonella. This is true for all reptiles. I was thinking of
> creating a fire newt tank but they are notorious escape artists and I have
> cats. I didn't want to take the small risk that something may happen.
>
> Mar
> ------------------------------------------------
> "I meant," said Ipslore, bitterly,"what is there in this world that makes
> living worthwhile?"
>
> Death thought about it.
> "Cats," he said eventually, "Cats are nice."
>
> -Terry Pratchett, 'Sourcery'

It's good of you to think of the newts first. I had cats too when I
had my newt and there was never a problem except for me finding out
years later from my sister who finally and freely confessed she felt
sorry for the newt and took it out of the tank and let it walk around
in the grass in the backyard and blackie walked up to it innocently
and suddenly pounced on it. The newt seemed just fine afterward after
recovering from playing dead (i.e. the newt flattened it's stomach),
but boy o boy was I angry at her. She used to always mess with my
stuff. She had even previously let a different newt or salamander I
had go free as well and said it must have been eaten by the bigger
newt and told me the truth like years later. She also wrote on my
books and papers saying stupid stuff. At least me and her are square
now I think, but man! Anyway it's your decision about the newts as far
as the cats go. I don't know your cats but mine never were interested
in the newt unless it was free which was almost never. If you decide
to keep some just make sure you keep the tank covered either with an
aquarium glass cover or tight mosquito netting or screen. A screen
should be a good choice as long as it's kept tight, That's what my
first real friend did way back and he had a cat too and it worked out
fine, and it's a lot cheaper than a glass cover and a glass cover can
suffocate the animals unless you pump air in. Good luck and later!

[Daniel Morrow]

Would you accept rain-checks for those frogs? I am interested as far
as a backup plan goes. Thanks for the offer.