Native fishes question

[bottom feeder]

This summer I'll be going down to southern Missouri to the Castor River
to do some swimming, fishing, wading, etc. (been doing this for past two
years now) and I'm hopping to do some fish collection while I'm down
there (despite the probable fact that this is illegal). Does anyone
have experience catching and keeping local fish? I'm planning on making
two trips, first to do some tests on the water and observations on the
various species in the area, then to do some collecting. What's the
best way to transport fish for a 3-4 hour drive? And how do you collect
those dang bottom feeders that I see all over the place?

I'm hoping to stock the tank with small species only and maybe one or
two bottom feeders. I'm going to start with my spare 29 gallon then
hope to upgrade them into at least a 75.

Anyway, any links, advice, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
--
dan (sorry for the crosspost)

[Dan J. S.]

"bottom feeder" > wrote in message
...
> This summer I'll be going down to southern Missouri to the Castor River
> to do some swimming, fishing, wading, etc. (been doing this for past two
> years now) and I'm hopping to do some fish collection while I'm down
> there (despite the probable fact that this is illegal). Does anyone
> have experience catching and keeping local fish? I'm planning on making
> two trips, first to do some tests on the water and observations on the
> various species in the area, then to do some collecting. What's the
> best way to transport fish for a 3-4 hour drive? And how do you collect
> those dang bottom feeders that I see all over the place?
>
> I'm hoping to stock the tank with small species only and maybe one or
> two bottom feeders. I'm going to start with my spare 29 gallon then
> hope to upgrade them into at least a 75.
>
> Anyway, any links, advice, etc. would be greatly appreciated.
>

Remember, it's only illegal if you get caught. I used to collect fish this
way, problem is, most of these fish are cold water fish. Your tank, even
without a heater, will create sub-tropical climates for these guys.

A local fish store in Chicago sells all of the wild (or commonly found fish
in local lakes and rivers) along with chillers. I guess it's a new trend
around here.

[bottom feeder]

Dan J. S. wrote:
> "bottom feeder" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>This summer I'll be going down to southern Missouri to the Castor River
>>to do some swimming, fishing, wading, etc. (been doing this for past two
>>years now) and I'm hopping to do some fish collection while I'm down
>>there (despite the probable fact that this is illegal). Does anyone
>>have experience catching and keeping local fish? I'm planning on making
>>two trips, first to do some tests on the water and observations on the
>>various species in the area, then to do some collecting. What's the
>>best way to transport fish for a 3-4 hour drive? And how do you collect
>>those dang bottom feeders that I see all over the place?
>>
>>I'm hoping to stock the tank with small species only and maybe one or
>>two bottom feeders. I'm going to start with my spare 29 gallon then
>>hope to upgrade them into at least a 75.
>>
>>Anyway, any links, advice, etc. would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>
>
> Remember, it's only illegal if you get caught. I used to collect fish this
> way, problem is, most of these fish are cold water fish. Your tank, even
> without a heater, will create sub-tropical climates for these guys.
>
> A local fish store in Chicago sells all of the wild (or commonly found fish
> in local lakes and rivers) along with chillers. I guess it's a new trend
> around here.
>
>
>


That's what I was afraid of, as the river is spring fed and the max temp
on it is probably and the 60's. Anyone know where to keep a cheap
chiller that can do a 29g and then be used on a 75? ;)

--
dan

[battlelance]

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:02:14 -0600, "Dan J. S." > wrote:


>Remember, it's only illegal if you get caught. I used to collect fish this
>way, problem is, most of these fish are cold water fish. Your tank, even
>without a heater, will create sub-tropical climates for these guys.

Nothing like building a 100 gal, stocking it with bass and trout, and
getting out the fishing rod on a rainy day!

[Eric Schreiber]

"Dan J. S." > wrote:

>A local fish store in Chicago sells all of the wild (or commonly found fish
>in local lakes and rivers) along with chillers. I guess it's a new trend
>around here.

What store? I'm in the SW suburbs but I don't mind a road trip to see
interesting fish.


--
www.ericschreiber.com

[Dan J. S.]

"Cuthbert J. Twillie" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:02:14 -0600, "Dan J. S." > wrote:
> >A local fish store in Chicago sells all of the wild (or commonly found
fish
> >in local lakes and rivers) along with chillers. I guess it's a new trend
> >around here.
>
> Where is it? I'm planning on a 125 for Sunfish and/or Perch this spring.
>
> NW Chicagoland
>

Arlington Heights, will get you the cross roads tomorrow... its on Rand road
and something else.. in a strip mall...

[Rick]

"Dan J. S." > wrote in message
...
>
> "bottom feeder" > wrote in message
> ...
> > This summer I'll be going down to southern Missouri to the Castor River
> > to do some swimming, fishing, wading, etc. (been doing this for past two
> > years now) and I'm hopping to do some fish collection while I'm down
> > there (despite the probable fact that this is illegal). Does anyone
> > have experience catching and keeping local fish? I'm planning on making
> > two trips, first to do some tests on the water and observations on the
> > various species in the area, then to do some collecting. What's the
> > best way to transport fish for a 3-4 hour drive? And how do you collect
> > those dang bottom feeders that I see all over the place?
> >
> > I'm hoping to stock the tank with small species only and maybe one or
> > two bottom feeders. I'm going to start with my spare 29 gallon then
> > hope to upgrade them into at least a 75.
> >
> > Anyway, any links, advice, etc. would be greatly appreciated.
> >
>
> Remember, it's only illegal if you get caught. I used to collect fish this
> way, problem is, most of these fish are cold water fish. Your tank, even
> without a heater, will create sub-tropical climates for these guys.
>
> A local fish store in Chicago sells all of the wild (or commonly found
fish
> in local lakes and rivers) along with chillers. I guess it's a new trend
> around here.
>
>

if it's illegal then it's illegal whether you get caught or not. Prosecution
would depend on whether you get caught not the legality of the issue. In any
event have you checked with the local authorities so see whether the species
you may want to collect can be kept. There are many North American native
species that are perfectly legal to catch and keep. I have a tank of Alabama
LongEar Sunfish which are very nice although may be too large for your
tastes.

Rick

[bottom feeder]

Rick wrote:
> "Dan J. S." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"bottom feeder" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>This summer I'll be going down to southern Missouri to the Castor River
>>>to do some swimming, fishing, wading, etc. (been doing this for past two
>>>years now) and I'm hopping to do some fish collection while I'm down
>>>there (despite the probable fact that this is illegal). Does anyone
>>>have experience catching and keeping local fish? I'm planning on making
>>>two trips, first to do some tests on the water and observations on the
>>>various species in the area, then to do some collecting. What's the
>>>best way to transport fish for a 3-4 hour drive? And how do you collect
>>>those dang bottom feeders that I see all over the place?
>>>
>>>I'm hoping to stock the tank with small species only and maybe one or
>>>two bottom feeders. I'm going to start with my spare 29 gallon then
>>>hope to upgrade them into at least a 75.
>>>
>>>Anyway, any links, advice, etc. would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>
>>Remember, it's only illegal if you get caught. I used to collect fish this
>>way, problem is, most of these fish are cold water fish. Your tank, even
>>without a heater, will create sub-tropical climates for these guys.
>>
>>A local fish store in Chicago sells all of the wild (or commonly found
>
> fish
>
>>in local lakes and rivers) along with chillers. I guess it's a new trend
>>around here.
>>
>>
>
>
> if it's illegal then it's illegal whether you get caught or not. Prosecution
> would depend on whether you get caught not the legality of the issue. In any
> event have you checked with the local authorities so see whether the species
> you may want to collect can be kept. There are many North American native
> species that are perfectly legal to catch and keep. I have a tank of Alabama
> LongEar Sunfish which are very nice although may be too large for your
> tastes.
>

I'm figuring that there will be no legal problems because the river runs
through private land where we swim it. The headwaters are part of a
state park, though. I'm just hoping to grab some minnow sized fish or
just a couple perch. I don't think they'll be any problem as these (the
perch, at least) are often caught for food.


--
dan

> Rick
>
>

[bottom feeder]

battlelance wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:02:14 -0600, "Dan J. S." > wrote:
>
>
>
>>Remember, it's only illegal if you get caught. I used to collect fish this
>>way, problem is, most of these fish are cold water fish. Your tank, even
>>without a heater, will create sub-tropical climates for these guys.
>
>
> Nothing like building a 100 gal, stocking it with bass and trout, and
> getting out the fishing rod on a rainy day!
>
>

I want a 500 gallon long tank stocked with Rainbow Trout. I'd be just
like my cat and stare at it with mouth watering.

--
dan

[John >]

My 120G has 3 sunfish and a 20" Muskie
http://www.noahs-marine.com/Noah_Images/PICS/Aquarium/120/DSCF0002.JPG

I am planning on a 400G tank this spring and in two years a 12' in diameter
8' deep divided in two for aggressive and less aggressive species.

JOhn ><>


"Cuthbert J. Twillie" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:02:14 -0600, "Dan J. S." > wrote:
> >A local fish store in Chicago sells all of the wild (or commonly found
fish
> >in local lakes and rivers) along with chillers. I guess it's a new trend
> >around here.
>
> Where is it? I'm planning on a 125 for Sunfish and/or Perch this spring.
>
> NW Chicagoland
>

[Jim Morcombe]

I have no idea what kind of fish you have there, but...

I use "bait traps" to catch the fish. These are small fish traps that will
catch things like shrimps, so the netting is very fine.

I just throw these in and come back the next day. In spite of their small
size, I have caught fish up to 18" in length.

They are particularly effective for bottom feeders.

You have to be very careful with fish caught in the wild. Most of those I
catch are very sensitive to Nitrites and fungus. Make sure you keep up a
high quality of water - ie, plenty of water changes.

Jim


bottom feeder > wrote in message
...
> This summer I'll be going down to southern Missouri to the Castor River
> to do some swimming, fishing, wading, etc. (been doing this for past two
> years now) and I'm hopping to do some fish collection while I'm down
> there (despite the probable fact that this is illegal). Does anyone
> have experience catching and keeping local fish? I'm planning on making
> two trips, first to do some tests on the water and observations on the
> various species in the area, then to do some collecting. What's the
> best way to transport fish for a 3-4 hour drive? And how do you collect
> those dang bottom feeders that I see all over the place?
>
> I'm hoping to stock the tank with small species only and maybe one or
> two bottom feeders. I'm going to start with my spare 29 gallon then
> hope to upgrade them into at least a 75.
>
> Anyway, any links, advice, etc. would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> dan (sorry for the crosspost)
>

[battlelance]

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:23:00 -0600, bottom feeder
> wrote:

>I want a 500 gallon long tank stocked with Rainbow Trout. I'd be just
>like my cat and stare at it with mouth watering.

Hey that's a good idea...

Drop a pike in there and watch the games begin :)

[Gordon James]

Hi!

I live in New Brunswick, Canada (Just north of Maine) and have done lots
with native fish.

here are some thoughts.


Colder water holds more O2 and CO2 - if you keep your tanks at room temp you
will have to have lower stocking levels because of the need for O2.


The larger the tank the better.
Fish that survive in the aquarium trade seem to be more adaptable to changes
in water quality / temp / problems

The larger your tank the less likely you will be to kill your fish. Tanks
with a large surface area will give better O2 / CO2 / NH4 exchange with the
air.

LIVE PLANTS (and bright lights) ARE ESSENTIAL.

For example
Sitting on my office desk is a 4 foot long 55 gallon tank.
Native fish - 3 Red Eared Sunfish / 2 creek chubb / 3 Northern Redbelly Dace
/ i large plecostamus (not native but a good bottom feeder that the sunfish
won't eat)

I have a 55 gallon lit with 4 (4 foot) flourescent tubes.
The bottom 5 - 8 inches of the tank is overgrown with Javamoss and a number
of local plants.
the bottom of the tank is local coarse stones over local fine (reiver) beach
sand over a larege under gravel filter.
the pH of local river water is 8.2 / the pH of local well water is 8.8 (no
acid rain here) the tank is between theuse, usually 8.3
DIY CO2 injected into reverse UFG so CO2 gets fully absorbed into the water
to enhance plant growth.

small local snails came in on some plants - the sunfish eat them.
Malaysian Trumpet snails hide in the gravel / sand and there are thousands
of them helping clean the tank.

the chubb and dace (smaller fish) seem to prefer flake food
The sunfish prefer live grasshoppers (in summer when the kids catch them)
and large fish pond pellets.
Sunfish eat anything, and even but fingers that go into the tank.

In the summer I move these fish to a 1500 gallon outdoor pond (last summer)
I have moved and not yet built a new pond.


for cooling (specially the pond on hot days) I siphon surface water from the
pond, and replace with cold water from the well.
I do less than 50 gallons a day and use the pond water to water my lawn.
If you use too much well water directly you can put the fish to sleep or
even kill them as CO2 leaves the cold water as it warms up.


for the aquarium I keep my water at room temp.
it is a little cooler then room temp because . . .

evaporation of water cools it some.
10% weekly water changes adds 10 gallons of cold water every week. 5 Gal on
Sunday after church and 5 Gal on Wed.
this cools tank some

using air stones for circulation of water also increases evaporation.
I syphon one bucket of water a week (5 gal) and replace it with 10 gallons
because of the amount of evaporation.

I usually have to remove 2 or 3 handfulls of java moss a month because of
how quickly it grows.

Lights are on a timer - 13 hours of flourescent light a day (10 am - 11 pm)
with some natural light in the morning.

I considered getting a chiller, but the expense and noise and extra junk
made me thing that replacing warm water with cold 2 x weekly would do the
same thing.

[bottom feeder]

Jim Morcombe wrote:

> I have no idea what kind of fish you have there, but...
>
> I use "bait traps" to catch the fish. These are small fish traps that will
> catch things like shrimps, so the netting is very fine.
>
> I just throw these in and come back the next day. In spite of their small
> size, I have caught fish up to 18" in length.
>
> They are particularly effective for bottom feeders.
>
> You have to be very careful with fish caught in the wild. Most of those I
> catch are very sensitive to Nitrites and fungus. Make sure you keep up a
> high quality of water - ie, plenty of water changes.
>

Thanks for the help.

Do you have any idea why these fish are sensitive to Nitrites and fungus
and tropical species caught in the wild generally aren't?

--
dan

> Jim
>
>

[JTech]

> This summer I'll be going down to southern Missouri to the Castor River
> to do some swimming, fishing, wading, etc. (been doing this for past two
> years now) and I'm hopping to do some fish collection while I'm down
> there (despite the probable fact that this is illegal). Does anyone
> have experience catching and keeping local fish? I'm planning on making
> two trips, first to do some tests on the water and observations on the
> various species in the area, then to do some collecting. What's the
> best way to transport fish for a 3-4 hour drive? And how do you collect
> those dang bottom feeders that I see all over the place?
>
> I'm hoping to stock the tank with small species only and maybe one or
> two bottom feeders. I'm going to start with my spare 29 gallon then
> hope to upgrade them into at least a 75.
>
> Anyway, any links, advice, etc. would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> dan (sorry for the crosspost)

If you need to do a chiller, get a cheap small cube refridgerator ( like you
keep soda's etc in a bedroom or dorm ) and run a coil of hose into it, then
into the tank. Say drill holes in the side and seal it in. Then you may be
able to have a refreshing cold drink handy when you're watching your fish
buds.

[Hank Barta]

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc battlelance > wrote:
>
> Nothing like building a 100 gal, stocking it with bass and trout, and
> getting out the fishing rod on a rainy day!

It's easier than netting them. DAMHIK!

[Todd Dunn]

Down here in Florida the rule about NETTING fish is, "you may net the
minnows and fry of non-sport fish." I've gotten killifishes, green sailfins,
sunfish and others. For years I kept an aquarium with locally captured fish.
Local bogwood and a substrate of crushed limerock which is what our lake
beds and rivers are made of. We had well water that just like the local
springs.

Geez, do I miss that house.

Todd

"Rick" > wrote in message
...
> if it's illegal then it's illegal whether you get caught or not.
Prosecution
> would depend on whether you get caught not the legality of the issue. In
any
> event have you checked with the local authorities so see whether the
species
> you may want to collect can be kept. There are many North American native
> species that are perfectly legal to catch and keep. I have a tank of
Alabama
> LongEar Sunfish which are very nice although may be too large for your
> tastes.
>
> Rick
>

[Jim Morcombe]

I don't really know what I am talking about and I'm just guessing, but in
the tropics plants, algae and fungus grow much more agressively than in the
temperate areas. Hence the fish have more exposure to them.

In a temperate river or large lake, the fish are fairly free of fungus and
don't develop natural protection from it. However, an aquarium is tiny by
comparison and fungus can easily develop.

As for why they are more sensitive to Nitrates, I would expect even tropical
fish caught in the wild to be sensitive to Nitrates. However, after a few
generations of breeding in aquariums, they would quickly develop a tolerance
to it.

The only thing I know for sure, is that I lose a lot of fish unless I am
really careful. However, those that do survive my carelessness are those
that are tougher than average and they usually survive quite a while.

Jim


bottom feeder > wrote in message
...
> Jim Morcombe wrote:
>
> > I have no idea what kind of fish you have there, but...
> >
> > I use "bait traps" to catch the fish. These are small fish traps that
will
> > catch things like shrimps, so the netting is very fine.
> >
> > I just throw these in and come back the next day. In spite of their
small
> > size, I have caught fish up to 18" in length.
> >
> > They are particularly effective for bottom feeders.
> >
> > You have to be very careful with fish caught in the wild. Most of those
I
> > catch are very sensitive to Nitrites and fungus. Make sure you keep up
a
> > high quality of water - ie, plenty of water changes.
> >
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Do you have any idea why these fish are sensitive to Nitrites and fungus
> and tropical species caught in the wild generally aren't?
>
> --
> dan
>
> > Jim
> >
> >
>