High ammonia in tank/tap water......with Bio Spira

[Jason in Oakland]

Hi all,

I decided to do fishless cycling to prepare my 12gal tank for my 5
gold barbs (they're not in there yet! just some plants). Used a
Wardley test set to determine the NH3 levels.

Obviously the reagents were old or otherwise ineffective--no matter
how much NH3 I added (store-bought, no
bubbles/detergents/coloring/perfume), it never registered more than
2ppm. A much higher concentration that I concocted in a glass
registered NO ammonia. I felt sick realizing something was wrong with
my testing set and I was poisoning my tank. Luckily no fish in there
yet.

Got an Aquarium Pharm set and was astounded...well over 8ppm of
ammonia (accurate--I put about 15ml of dilute ammonia in my tank). Did
a couple of water changes to bring it down to about 4-5ppm. Added half
a 1 oz. packet of Bio Spira last night (whole packet good for 30 gal;
my tank is 12 gal).

This morning: same NH3, no nitrite or nitrate detectable. Guess it's
too early (12 hours) to have any bacterial activity.

My tap water: on a lark, I tested it. 1 ppm ammonia!!!!!! I tested a
sample of water that I treated to remove chlorine & chloramine
(Nutrafin Aqua Plus)....also 1 ppm!

Should I have put more Bio Spira in? (given my high load of ammonia)
With such a high concentration of NH3 in my tap water, I assume I'll
have to treat my tap water with AmQuel in addition to Aqua Plus from
now on when I do water changes?

Thanks!!!!

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: High ammonia in tank/tap water......with Bio Spira
>From: (Jason in Oakland)
>Date: 2/12/2004 12:10 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Hi all,
>
>I decided to do fishless cycling to prepare my 12gal tank for my 5
>gold barbs (they're not in there yet! just some plants). Used a
>Wardley test set to determine the NH3 levels.
>
>Obviously the reagents were old or otherwise ineffective--no matter
>how much NH3 I added (store-bought, no
>bubbles/detergents/coloring/perfume), it never registered more than
>2ppm. A much higher concentration that I concocted in a glass
>registered NO ammonia. I felt sick realizing something was wrong with
>my testing set and I was poisoning my tank. Luckily no fish in there
>yet.
>
>Got an Aquarium Pharm set and was astounded...well over 8ppm of
>ammonia (accurate--I put about 15ml of dilute ammonia in my tank). Did
>a couple of water changes to bring it down to about 4-5ppm. Added half
>a 1 oz. packet of Bio Spira last night (whole packet good for 30 gal;
>my tank is 12 gal).
>
>This morning: same NH3, no nitrite or nitrate detectable. Guess it's
>too early (12 hours) to have any bacterial activity.
>
>My tap water: on a lark, I tested it. 1 ppm ammonia!!!!!! I tested a
>sample of water that I treated to remove chlorine & chloramine
>(Nutrafin Aqua Plus)....also 1 ppm!
>
>Should I have put more Bio Spira in? (given my high load of ammonia)
>With such a high concentration of NH3 in my tap water, I assume I'll
>have to treat my tap water with AmQuel in addition to Aqua Plus from
>now on when I do water changes?
>
>Thanks!!!!
>
>

If there were no fish in it, I would have drained it totally, and started over
with a fresh start.
The Bio Spira would have tajen care of any cycling period in 24 hours.
However, you added it to an existing problem, so your results with the Bio
Spira may be different.
I have had great success with it on cycling 2 different tanks (100%
freshwater). (1) 3g and (1) 75g tank.
If you still have half the package of B. S. left, I say drain it and start from
scratch.
If you have since added some fish...just keep up with water changes, a good
sized %, and add Bio Spira.
You're not going to have to do this with every water change, as after the tank
is cycled you'll be changing only about 20% water changes weekly.

[NetMax]

"Jason in Oakland" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi all,
>
> I decided to do fishless cycling to prepare my 12gal tank for my 5
> gold barbs (they're not in there yet! just some plants). Used a
> Wardley test set to determine the NH3 levels.
>
> Obviously the reagents were old or otherwise ineffective--no matter
> how much NH3 I added (store-bought, no
> bubbles/detergents/coloring/perfume), it never registered more than
> 2ppm. A much higher concentration that I concocted in a glass
> registered NO ammonia. I felt sick realizing something was wrong with
> my testing set and I was poisoning my tank. Luckily no fish in there
> yet.
>
> Got an Aquarium Pharm set and was astounded...well over 8ppm of
> ammonia (accurate--I put about 15ml of dilute ammonia in my tank). Did
> a couple of water changes to bring it down to about 4-5ppm. Added half
> a 1 oz. packet of Bio Spira last night (whole packet good for 30 gal;
> my tank is 12 gal).
>
> This morning: same NH3, no nitrite or nitrate detectable. Guess it's
> too early (12 hours) to have any bacterial activity.
>
> My tap water: on a lark, I tested it. 1 ppm ammonia!!!!!! I tested a
> sample of water that I treated to remove chlorine & chloramine
> (Nutrafin Aqua Plus)....also 1 ppm!
>
> Should I have put more Bio Spira in? (given my high load of ammonia)
> With such a high concentration of NH3 in my tap water, I assume I'll
> have to treat my tap water with AmQuel in addition to Aqua Plus from
> now on when I do water changes?
>
> Thanks!!!!

I don't think you need to do anything that you haven't already done. Now
you wait.

I fishless cycled once at 7ppm. It yields a larger bacterial load, and
more NO3 at the end.

Regarding your source water's 1ppm, you might want to have that looked
at. Small frequent water changes in a lightly-loaded well-filtered tank
would probably absorb the ammonia (what is your pH?), otherwise, you
should use a product which detoxifies the ammonia after de-chlorinating.

NetMax

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: High ammonia in tank/tap water......with Bio Spira
>From: nanoreef
>Date: 2/13/2004 11:55 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: .com>
>
>Jason in Oakland may have written:
>
>> This morning: same NH3, no nitrite or nitrate detectable. Guess it's
>> too early (12 hours) to have any bacterial activity.
>
>The bacteria multiply at an incredibly slow rate, doubling only every
>15-18 hours. Let it run.
>
>The 7ppm ammonia should not have been a problem. By a few accounts
>much higher concentrations will not hurt significantly. If the
>concentration is too high the bacteria will slow down.
>
>It should be noted that BioSpira is snake oil to some, and the best
>stuff ever to others. Google for more info.
>
>

Have you used it yet?
Probably not if you're still skeptical. = )
It's all the other "cycling" products that are what yourefer to as "snake oil".

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: High ammonia in tank/tap water......with Bio Spira
>From: "NetMax"
>Date: 2/14/2004 8:58 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Jason in Oakland" > wrote in message
om...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I decided to do fishless cycling to prepare my 12gal tank for my 5
>> gold barbs (they're not in there yet! just some plants). Used a
>> Wardley test set to determine the NH3 levels.
>>
>> Obviously the reagents were old or otherwise ineffective--no matter
>> how much NH3 I added (store-bought, no
>> bubbles/detergents/coloring/perfume), it never registered more than
>> 2ppm. A much higher concentration that I concocted in a glass
>> registered NO ammonia. I felt sick realizing something was wrong with
>> my testing set and I was poisoning my tank. Luckily no fish in there
>> yet.
>>
>> Got an Aquarium Pharm set and was astounded...well over 8ppm of
>> ammonia (accurate--I put about 15ml of dilute ammonia in my tank). Did
>> a couple of water changes to bring it down to about 4-5ppm. Added half
>> a 1 oz. packet of Bio Spira last night (whole packet good for 30 gal;
>> my tank is 12 gal).
>>
>> This morning: same NH3, no nitrite or nitrate detectable. Guess it's
>> too early (12 hours) to have any bacterial activity.
>>
>> My tap water: on a lark, I tested it. 1 ppm ammonia!!!!!! I tested a
>> sample of water that I treated to remove chlorine & chloramine
>> (Nutrafin Aqua Plus)....also 1 ppm!
>>
>> Should I have put more Bio Spira in? (given my high load of ammonia)
>> With such a high concentration of NH3 in my tap water, I assume I'll
>> have to treat my tap water with AmQuel in addition to Aqua Plus from
>> now on when I do water changes?
>>
>> Thanks!!!!
>
>I don't think you need to do anything that you haven't already done. Now
>you wait.
>
>I fishless cycled once at 7ppm. It yields a larger bacterial load, and
>more NO3 at the end.
>
>Regarding your source water's 1ppm, you might want to have that looked
>at. Small frequent water changes in a lightly-loaded well-filtered tank
>would probably absorb the ammonia (what is your pH?), otherwise, you
>should use a product which detoxifies the ammonia after de-chlorinating.
>
>NetMax
>
>

NO NO NO!!!
Do not use any ammonia detoxifying products with Bio Spira. It'll render it
useless!
I forget if it was on their web site or the package..but it says to NOT use
those types of products with Bio Spira.

[NetMax]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: High ammonia in tank/tap water......with Bio Spira
> >From: "NetMax"
> >Date: 2/14/2004 8:58 AM Central Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"Jason in Oakland" > wrote in message
> om...
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I decided to do fishless cycling to prepare my 12gal tank for my 5
> >> gold barbs (they're not in there yet! just some plants). Used a
> >> Wardley test set to determine the NH3 levels.
> >>
> >> Obviously the reagents were old or otherwise ineffective--no matter
> >> how much NH3 I added (store-bought, no
> >> bubbles/detergents/coloring/perfume), it never registered more than
> >> 2ppm. A much higher concentration that I concocted in a glass
> >> registered NO ammonia. I felt sick realizing something was wrong
with
> >> my testing set and I was poisoning my tank. Luckily no fish in there
> >> yet.
> >>
> >> Got an Aquarium Pharm set and was astounded...well over 8ppm of
> >> ammonia (accurate--I put about 15ml of dilute ammonia in my tank).
Did
> >> a couple of water changes to bring it down to about 4-5ppm. Added
half
> >> a 1 oz. packet of Bio Spira last night (whole packet good for 30
gal;
> >> my tank is 12 gal).
> >>
> >> This morning: same NH3, no nitrite or nitrate detectable. Guess it's
> >> too early (12 hours) to have any bacterial activity.
> >>
> >> My tap water: on a lark, I tested it. 1 ppm ammonia!!!!!! I tested a
> >> sample of water that I treated to remove chlorine & chloramine
> >> (Nutrafin Aqua Plus)....also 1 ppm!
> >>
> >> Should I have put more Bio Spira in? (given my high load of ammonia)
> >> With such a high concentration of NH3 in my tap water, I assume I'll
> >> have to treat my tap water with AmQuel in addition to Aqua Plus from
> >> now on when I do water changes?
> >>
> >> Thanks!!!!
> >
> >I don't think you need to do anything that you haven't already done.
Now
> >you wait.
> >
> >I fishless cycled once at 7ppm. It yields a larger bacterial load,
and
> >more NO3 at the end.
> >
> >Regarding your source water's 1ppm, you might want to have that looked
> >at. Small frequent water changes in a lightly-loaded well-filtered
tank
> >would probably absorb the ammonia (what is your pH?), otherwise, you
> >should use a product which detoxifies the ammonia after
de-chlorinating.
> >
> >NetMax
> >
> >
>
> NO NO NO!!!
> Do not use any ammonia detoxifying products with Bio Spira. It'll
render it
> useless!
> I forget if it was on their web site or the package..but it says to NOT
use
> those types of products with Bio Spira.

OOOh ?!? ooops sorry. Thanks TYNK 7. I wonder why? Ammo-lock converts
NH3 to NH4, either of which is available to nitrifying bacteria. What
makes Bio-spira's bacteria unique that they can't eat ammonium ions?
Very bizarre.

NetMax

[ThangFish]

NetMax wrote:
> "TYNK 7" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> Subject: Re: High ammonia in tank/tap water......with Bio Spira
>>> From: "NetMax"
>>> Date: 2/14/2004 8:58 AM Central Standard Time
>>> Message-id: >
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jason in Oakland" > wrote in message
>>> om...
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I decided to do fishless cycling to prepare my 12gal tank for my 5
>>>> gold barbs (they're not in there yet! just some plants). Used a
>>>> Wardley test set to determine the NH3 levels.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously the reagents were old or otherwise ineffective--no matter
>>>> how much NH3 I added (store-bought, no
>>>> bubbles/detergents/coloring/perfume), it never registered more than
>>>> 2ppm. A much higher concentration that I concocted in a glass
>>>> registered NO ammonia. I felt sick realizing something was wrong
>>>> with my testing set and I was poisoning my tank. Luckily no fish
>>>> in there yet.
>>>>
>>>> Got an Aquarium Pharm set and was astounded...well over 8ppm of
>>>> ammonia (accurate--I put about 15ml of dilute ammonia in my tank).
>>>> Did a couple of water changes to bring it down to about 4-5ppm.
>>>> Added half a 1 oz. packet of Bio Spira last night (whole packet
>>>> good for 30 gal; my tank is 12 gal).
>>>>
>>>> This morning: same NH3, no nitrite or nitrate detectable. Guess
>>>> it's too early (12 hours) to have any bacterial activity.
>>>>
>>>> My tap water: on a lark, I tested it. 1 ppm ammonia!!!!!! I tested
>>>> a sample of water that I treated to remove chlorine & chloramine
>>>> (Nutrafin Aqua Plus)....also 1 ppm!
>>>>
>>>> Should I have put more Bio Spira in? (given my high load of
>>>> ammonia) With such a high concentration of NH3 in my tap water, I
>>>> assume I'll have to treat my tap water with AmQuel in addition to
>>>> Aqua Plus from now on when I do water changes?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!!!!
>>>
>>> I don't think you need to do anything that you haven't already
>>> done. Now you wait.
>>>
>>> I fishless cycled once at 7ppm. It yields a larger bacterial load,
>>> and more NO3 at the end.
>>>
>>> Regarding your source water's 1ppm, you might want to have that
>>> looked at. Small frequent water changes in a lightly-loaded
>>> well-filtered tank would probably absorb the ammonia (what is your
>>> pH?), otherwise, you should use a product which detoxifies the
>>> ammonia after de-chlorinating.
>>>
>>> NetMax
>>>
>>>
>>
>> NO NO NO!!!
>> Do not use any ammonia detoxifying products with Bio Spira. It'll
>> render it useless!
>> I forget if it was on their web site or the package..but it says to
>> NOT use those types of products with Bio Spira.
>
> OOOh ?!? ooops sorry. Thanks TYNK 7. I wonder why? Ammo-lock
> converts NH3 to NH4, either of which is available to nitrifying
> bacteria. What makes Bio-spira's bacteria unique that they can't eat
> ammonium ions? Very bizarre.
>
> NetMax

Well that's not EXACTLY true. Here is the exact wording:

---
IMPORTANT: BIO-Spira is a "live" bacteria culture that is sold refrigerated
and must be kept refrigerated until used. It can not be overdosed. Repeated
dosing of your aquarium with ammonia removing liquids (such as BIO-Safe,
Amquel, Ammo-lock and Aqua-Safe) can inhibit the beneficial action of
BIO-Spira. Ammonia removing liquids should only be used to initially treat
tap water. It is normal to have a small (<2 ppm) amount of ammonia or
nitrate during the first few days after set-up. These concentrations are not
harmful and will quickly drop to zero with proper use of BIO-Spira.
---

They DO actually recommend ONE initial treatment of one of the above listed
liquids (their own brand of course - BIO-Safe).

What makes it unique is that it contains nitrospiras (which are proven to be
directly related to nitrite oxidation in aquariums) instead of the
nitrobacters commonly found in preparations like Cycle (which do not
even exist in established aquariums... even after dosing), contrary to
popular wisdom.

After following several closely monitored trials, with new, heavily stocked
tanks, by different people on another forum, I tried to get my LFS to carry
this stuff 2 years ago. They said they couldn't because of the refrigeration
requirements.

--
TF

Put my handle in front of the domain name to email.

[Jason in Oakland]

I'm a little depressed.

But I'm also just a little impatient....

First, I've learned how much different reagent tests can vary... that
Wardley test was *really* bad (hopefully just really old, and not a
reflection of the quality of their entire line). The Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals one I have now seems a bit oversensitive...but I guess
that's better than not sensitive enough.

Anyway, I'm sorry I forgot to mention the pH: it's about 7-7.2
(depending on the pH test). I think it started a bit higher, around
7.6, and has been steadily drifting back to neutral. I'll be putting
in 5 golden barbs, and they apparently like pH 6-7.

Yesterday morning I still hadn't noticed any NO2- or NO3-, so I added
another entire packet of BioSpira.

24 hrs later....absolutely NO change in ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.
Around 4ppm ammonia, zero nitrate, possibly up to 2ppm nitrate (hard
to tell with the reagent color).

I don't know what to do....I would have to do a couple of complete
water changes to bring the water to (hopefully) around 1-2ppm ammonia
(it seems to be in my tap water via chloramine). I don't know what it
will take to kick-start the biological filtration--and actually see
some nitrites and then nitrates forming.

Should I do water changes to bring my ammonia down to around 1-2ppm,
add AmmoLock, use pH down to bring pH down to 6.5 or so (to convert
NH3 to NH4+) and try some fish? I don't want them to die, but I don't
want to wait forever for my tank to cycle.

It's been 4 days, a full 96 hours, since I added ammonia, and there
hasn't been any nitrite production. Shouldn't there have been some
anyway, BioSpira or not? (it's only been 48 hrs since I introduced
BioSpira). Need to brush up on my cycling statistics, I guess.

I have to say, though, that through this rather exasperating week, all
of your help and advice has been very helpful, and I really appreciate
your generosity with your time and attention.

Jason

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: High ammonia in tank/tap water......with Bio Spira
>From: "NetMax"
>Date: 2/14/2004 10:28 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
>> >Subject: Re: High ammonia in tank/tap water......with Bio Spira
>> >From: "NetMax"
>> >Date: 2/14/2004 8:58 AM Central Standard Time
>> >Message-id: >
>> >
>> >
>> >"Jason in Oakland" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> I decided to do fishless cycling to prepare my 12gal tank for my 5
>> >> gold barbs (they're not in there yet! just some plants). Used a
>> >> Wardley test set to determine the NH3 levels.
>> >>
>> >> Obviously the reagents were old or otherwise ineffective--no matter
>> >> how much NH3 I added (store-bought, no
>> >> bubbles/detergents/coloring/perfume), it never registered more than
>> >> 2ppm. A much higher concentration that I concocted in a glass
>> >> registered NO ammonia. I felt sick realizing something was wrong
>with
>> >> my testing set and I was poisoning my tank. Luckily no fish in there
>> >> yet.
>> >>
>> >> Got an Aquarium Pharm set and was astounded...well over 8ppm of
>> >> ammonia (accurate--I put about 15ml of dilute ammonia in my tank).
>Did
>> >> a couple of water changes to bring it down to about 4-5ppm. Added
>half
>> >> a 1 oz. packet of Bio Spira last night (whole packet good for 30
>gal;
>> >> my tank is 12 gal).
>> >>
>> >> This morning: same NH3, no nitrite or nitrate detectable. Guess it's
>> >> too early (12 hours) to have any bacterial activity.
>> >>
>> >> My tap water: on a lark, I tested it. 1 ppm ammonia!!!!!! I tested a
>> >> sample of water that I treated to remove chlorine & chloramine
>> >> (Nutrafin Aqua Plus)....also 1 ppm!
>> >>
>> >> Should I have put more Bio Spira in? (given my high load of ammonia)
>> >> With such a high concentration of NH3 in my tap water, I assume I'll
>> >> have to treat my tap water with AmQuel in addition to Aqua Plus from
>> >> now on when I do water changes?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!!!!
>> >
>> >I don't think you need to do anything that you haven't already done.
>Now
>> >you wait.
>> >
>> >I fishless cycled once at 7ppm. It yields a larger bacterial load,
>and
>> >more NO3 at the end.
>> >
>> >Regarding your source water's 1ppm, you might want to have that looked
>> >at. Small frequent water changes in a lightly-loaded well-filtered
>tank
>> >would probably absorb the ammonia (what is your pH?), otherwise, you
>> >should use a product which detoxifies the ammonia after
>de-chlorinating.
>> >
>> >NetMax
>> >
>> >
>>
>> NO NO NO!!!
>> Do not use any ammonia detoxifying products with Bio Spira. It'll
>render it
>> useless!
>> I forget if it was on their web site or the package..but it says to NOT
>use
>> those types of products with Bio Spira.
>
>OOOh ?!? ooops sorry. Thanks TYNK 7. I wonder why? Ammo-lock converts
>NH3 to NH4, either of which is available to nitrifying bacteria. What
>makes Bio-spira's bacteria unique that they can't eat ammonium ions?
>Very bizarre.
>
>NetMax
>

I have absolutely no clue. = /
Here's the link to their site in case ya want to have a read. = )
http://www.marineland.com/science/nspira.html

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: High ammonia in tank/tap water......with Bio Spira
>From: "ThangFish"
>Date: 2/14/2004 2:00 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>NetMax wrote:
>> "TYNK 7" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>> Subject: Re: High ammonia in tank/tap water......with Bio Spira
>>>> From: "NetMax"
>>>> Date: 2/14/2004 8:58 AM Central Standard Time
>>>> Message-id: >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Jason in Oakland" > wrote in message
>>>> om...
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I decided to do fishless cycling to prepare my 12gal tank for my 5
>>>>> gold barbs (they're not in there yet! just some plants). Used a
>>>>> Wardley test set to determine the NH3 levels.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously the reagents were old or otherwise ineffective--no matter
>>>>> how much NH3 I added (store-bought, no
>>>>> bubbles/detergents/coloring/perfume), it never registered more than
>>>>> 2ppm. A much higher concentration that I concocted in a glass
>>>>> registered NO ammonia. I felt sick realizing something was wrong
>>>>> with my testing set and I was poisoning my tank. Luckily no fish
>>>>> in there yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Got an Aquarium Pharm set and was astounded...well over 8ppm of
>>>>> ammonia (accurate--I put about 15ml of dilute ammonia in my tank).
>>>>> Did a couple of water changes to bring it down to about 4-5ppm.
>>>>> Added half a 1 oz. packet of Bio Spira last night (whole packet
>>>>> good for 30 gal; my tank is 12 gal).
>>>>>
>>>>> This morning: same NH3, no nitrite or nitrate detectable. Guess
>>>>> it's too early (12 hours) to have any bacterial activity.
>>>>>
>>>>> My tap water: on a lark, I tested it. 1 ppm ammonia!!!!!! I tested
>>>>> a sample of water that I treated to remove chlorine & chloramine
>>>>> (Nutrafin Aqua Plus)....also 1 ppm!
>>>>>
>>>>> Should I have put more Bio Spira in? (given my high load of
>>>>> ammonia) With such a high concentration of NH3 in my tap water, I
>>>>> assume I'll have to treat my tap water with AmQuel in addition to
>>>>> Aqua Plus from now on when I do water changes?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!!!!
>>>>
>>>> I don't think you need to do anything that you haven't already
>>>> done. Now you wait.
>>>>
>>>> I fishless cycled once at 7ppm. It yields a larger bacterial load,
>>>> and more NO3 at the end.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding your source water's 1ppm, you might want to have that
>>>> looked at. Small frequent water changes in a lightly-loaded
>>>> well-filtered tank would probably absorb the ammonia (what is your
>>>> pH?), otherwise, you should use a product which detoxifies the
>>>> ammonia after de-chlorinating.
>>>>
>>>> NetMax
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> NO NO NO!!!
>>> Do not use any ammonia detoxifying products with Bio Spira. It'll
>>> render it useless!
>>> I forget if it was on their web site or the package..but it says to
>>> NOT use those types of products with Bio Spira.
>>
>> OOOh ?!? ooops sorry. Thanks TYNK 7. I wonder why? Ammo-lock
>> converts NH3 to NH4, either of which is available to nitrifying
>> bacteria. What makes Bio-spira's bacteria unique that they can't eat
>> ammonium ions? Very bizarre.
>>
>> NetMax
>
>Well that's not EXACTLY true. Here is the exact wording:
>
>---
>IMPORTANT: BIO-Spira is a "live" bacteria culture that is sold refrigerated
>and must be kept refrigerated until used. It can not be overdosed. Repeated
>dosing of your aquarium with ammonia removing liquids (such as BIO-Safe,
>Amquel, Ammo-lock and Aqua-Safe) can inhibit the beneficial action of
>BIO-Spira. Ammonia removing liquids should only be used to initially treat
>tap water. It is normal to have a small (<2 ppm) amount of ammonia or
>nitrate during the first few days after set-up. These concentrations are not
>harmful and will quickly drop to zero with proper use of BIO-Spira.
>---
>
>They DO actually recommend ONE initial treatment of one of the above listed
>liquids (their own brand of course - BIO-Safe).
>
>What makes it unique is that it contains nitrospiras (which are proven to be
>directly related to nitrite oxidation in aquariums) instead of the
>nitrobacters commonly found in preparations like Cycle (which do not
>even exist in established aquariums... even after dosing), contrary to
>popular wisdom.
>
>After following several closely monitored trials, with new, heavily stocked
>tanks, by different people on another forum, I tried to get my LFS to carry
>this stuff 2 years ago. They said they couldn't because of the refrigeration
>requirements.
>
>--
>TF
>
>Put my handle in front of the domain name to email.
>
>

Thanks for clearing that up. = )
I just remembered you weren't supposed to use it and that somebody else that I
know of is having troubles cycling with Bio Spira (besides this original
poster), and was using AmQuel during it.