Fish Hearing

[Porridge Rope]

When the water is low and the filter is splashing...

Does this distract the fish? Is it torture in a sense?

Thanks

[Dick]

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:57:01 -0500, "Porridge Rope"
> wrote:

>When the water is low and the filter is splashing...
>
>Does this distract the fish? Is it torture in a sense?
>
>Thanks
>

I would think that the sound would be very natural to fish. I think
of water dropping over rocks or water falls. I am thinking rivers,
lakes would be more quiet I would guess.

When I put water into my tanks with a bucket, the fish gather round, I
would guess they like the novelty or checking out the new water.

What brought the question to your mind?

[Porridge Rope]

Well, fish do sleep/rest.

And if fish hearing is anything like human hearing, the dull trickle of
water falling (And listening to it from inside the water) would be very
annoying. Very low frequency, almost like a drum.

More insight into this would be appreciated.

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:57:01 -0500, "Porridge Rope"
> > wrote:
>
> >When the water is low and the filter is splashing...
> >
> >Does this distract the fish? Is it torture in a sense?
> >
> >Thanks
> >
>
> I would think that the sound would be very natural to fish. I think
> of water dropping over rocks or water falls. I am thinking rivers,
> lakes would be more quiet I would guess.
>
> When I put water into my tanks with a bucket, the fish gather round, I
> would guess they like the novelty or checking out the new water.
>
> What brought the question to your mind?

[luminos]

"Porridge Rope" > wrote in message
...
> Well, fish do sleep/rest.
>
> And if fish hearing is anything like human hearing,

It isn't anythink like human hearing. Fish receive vibrations through the
bladder.

[miufg]

So how does the constant vibration of a waterfall affect their rest?

I did have some Mollies who always seemed stressed. They had this white
"flakiness" on their skin, and although I did hear that this is not uncommon
for black mollies, it is usually caused by temperature fluctuations (Of
which there were none.)


"luminos" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Porridge Rope" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Well, fish do sleep/rest.
> >
> > And if fish hearing is anything like human hearing,
>
> It isn't anythink like human hearing. Fish receive vibrations through the
> bladder.
>
>
>

[NetMax]

"Porridge Rope" > wrote in message
...
> When the water is low and the filter is splashing...
>
> Does this distract the fish? Is it torture in a sense?
>
> Thanks

At the very least, it messes up their 'sonar'. Tropical fish use a
combination of an inner ear, and detecting vibrations along their lateral
line(s). The water turbulence messes with their ability to detect motion
around them, and to signal each other. The amplitude of the noise is
probably very loud, but if it was consistent, they would probably 'drown'
some of it out, like white noise. Turn off the filter, and all the fish
jerk to attention, momentarily deafened by the silence.

Some links can be found 'hear' ;~) :
http://janeannyoung.com/sys-tmpl/fishhearing/

It's a good question. I would definitely try to make it a more tranquil
environment.

NetMax

[Craig Williams]

I really don't see this as being a problem that would bother the fish.
Everybody seems to forget these fish evolved in rivers & lakes where there
is water running over rocks & prob. a lot more noise than anything you will
find in a tank.

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Porridge Rope" > wrote in message
> ...
> > When the water is low and the filter is splashing...
> >
> > Does this distract the fish? Is it torture in a sense?
> >
> > Thanks
>
> At the very least, it messes up their 'sonar'. Tropical fish use a
> combination of an inner ear, and detecting vibrations along their lateral
> line(s). The water turbulence messes with their ability to detect motion
> around them, and to signal each other. The amplitude of the noise is
> probably very loud, but if it was consistent, they would probably 'drown'
> some of it out, like white noise. Turn off the filter, and all the fish
> jerk to attention, momentarily deafened by the silence.
>
>

[Donald K]

luminos wrote:

>> And if fish hearing is anything like human hearing,
>
> It isn't anythink like human hearing. Fish receive vibrations through
> the bladder.

So do I, at particularly loud concerts... ;-)

(Or the last part of the 1812...)

-D
--
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort." -Herm Albright

[miufg]

Evolve, eh?


"Craig Williams" > wrote in message
...
> I really don't see this as being a problem that would bother the fish.
> Everybody seems to forget these fish evolved in rivers & lakes where there
> is water running over rocks & prob. a lot more noise than anything you
will
> find in a tank.
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Porridge Rope" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > When the water is low and the filter is splashing...
> > >
> > > Does this distract the fish? Is it torture in a sense?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> >
> > At the very least, it messes up their 'sonar'. Tropical fish use a
> > combination of an inner ear, and detecting vibrations along their
lateral
> > line(s). The water turbulence messes with their ability to detect
motion
> > around them, and to signal each other. The amplitude of the noise is
> > probably very loud, but if it was consistent, they would probably
'drown'
> > some of it out, like white noise. Turn off the filter, and all the fish
> > jerk to attention, momentarily deafened by the silence.
> >
> >
>
>

[miufg]

Anyone care to add anything?

"Porridge Rope" > wrote in message
...
> When the water is low and the filter is splashing...
>
> Does this distract the fish? Is it torture in a sense?
>
> Thanks
>
>

[NetMax]

You want some empirical evidence? When trying to get fish to spawn, your
best chances are to try to reproduce the most natural conditions in
nature which trigger a spawn. Other than for riverine fishes like some
loaches and catfish, breeders don't add turbulence to induce spawning
;~). If anything, they reduce turbulence (noise) and provide more
shelter (further reduces noise). This isn't done to decrease noise
specifically, but to provide a more representative environment.

Go to your tank and press your ear against the glass. There is a big
difference between a canister filter, to having airstones in the tank
(and powerfilters are somewhere in between). The next time that you are
at the lake, dip you ear in and listen to the sound of the underwater.
Does it sound like airstones and powerfilters? ;~)

I think that it would certainly be distracting until they became
accustomed to it. I don't think that it's possible to discuss torture,
as their pain receptors are not similar enough to ours to have a
sufficiently valid point of comparison. The single most obvious
discomfort would be in the buffeting of the turbulence, especially to
tall fish such as Discus and Angels. The next effect would be to
significantly reduce their ability to discern movement around them
(making their lateral line less effective). This would most
significantly affect fish who have a greater dependence on this sense
(ie: Blind cave barbs and nocturnal hunters). Beyond that, I'd be
speculating.

Ideally, set your tank up to provide a mix of environments, turbulent and
non-turbulent, and any significant noise sources should be constant
and/or repetitive, so it becomes white noise to them (at least we hope,
but their reactions do mostly support this expectation).

NetMax


"miufg" > wrote in message
.. .
> Anyone care to add anything?
>
> "Porridge Rope" > wrote in message
> ...
> > When the water is low and the filter is splashing...
> >
> > Does this distract the fish? Is it torture in a sense?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
>
>

[miufg]

Thank you very much.

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
> You want some empirical evidence? When trying to get fish to spawn, your
> best chances are to try to reproduce the most natural conditions in
> nature which trigger a spawn. Other than for riverine fishes like some
> loaches and catfish, breeders don't add turbulence to induce spawning
> ;~). If anything, they reduce turbulence (noise) and provide more
> shelter (further reduces noise). This isn't done to decrease noise
> specifically, but to provide a more representative environment.
>
> Go to your tank and press your ear against the glass. There is a big
> difference between a canister filter, to having airstones in the tank
> (and powerfilters are somewhere in between). The next time that you are
> at the lake, dip you ear in and listen to the sound of the underwater.
> Does it sound like airstones and powerfilters? ;~)
>
> I think that it would certainly be distracting until they became
> accustomed to it. I don't think that it's possible to discuss torture,
> as their pain receptors are not similar enough to ours to have a
> sufficiently valid point of comparison. The single most obvious
> discomfort would be in the buffeting of the turbulence, especially to
> tall fish such as Discus and Angels. The next effect would be to
> significantly reduce their ability to discern movement around them
> (making their lateral line less effective). This would most
> significantly affect fish who have a greater dependence on this sense
> (ie: Blind cave barbs and nocturnal hunters). Beyond that, I'd be
> speculating.
>
> Ideally, set your tank up to provide a mix of environments, turbulent and
> non-turbulent, and any significant noise sources should be constant
> and/or repetitive, so it becomes white noise to them (at least we hope,
> but their reactions do mostly support this expectation).
>
> NetMax
>
>
> "miufg" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Anyone care to add anything?
> >
> > "Porridge Rope" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > When the water is low and the filter is splashing...
> > >
> > > Does this distract the fish? Is it torture in a sense?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>