used slate

[Flash Wilson]

I have some used slate which I wish to use in the tank...
.... it's been on my roof 100 years!

I've scrubbed off the dirt and lichen (not that it looked too
bad) and have a pan of water boiling ready to boil it for ten
minutes.

Any other suggestions?


--
Flash Wilson
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About me: http://www.gorge.org
About Leyton, East London: http://leyton.info

[NetMax]

"Flash Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> I have some used slate which I wish to use in the tank...
> ... it's been on my roof 100 years!
>
> I've scrubbed off the dirt and lichen (not that it looked too
> bad) and have a pan of water boiling ready to boil it for ten
> minutes.
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
>
> --
> Flash Wilson

Flash, you ask the neatest questions ;~) One hundred years of
temperature cycling, baked and chilled, rained on and baked with
pollutants.. hmmm. There would be two things of interest. Can it leech
and what it would leech. The porosity of the material would give you
some idea of it's potential to leech nasties. When I think of slate,
it's a non-porous mineral, but when I think of roof tiles, I think of
clay, so it's at your discretion. Besides it's leeching propensity, the
question is what would it leech (nasties/non-inert minerals?). Dropping
a few pieces in a pail for a week with a couple of feeders will answer
that question. Check pH & gH before and after to see if there is any
change. Of course, if the feeders die from hemorrhagic septicaemia and
tumours all over their bodies, then I'd pause before adding the stones to
the fish tank ;~)

If the slate is not porous, all I would do is a good hand-scrub with an
aquarium-only brush (I keep just for this task). Testing the stones in
the pail as described would depend on my emotional and/or financial
investment in the tank the stones are intended to be used in. hth

OT: I find that your posts to newbies are well written common sense
advice which has helped out many many people. I hope you never get tired
of writing them.

cheers
NetMax

[IDzine01]

(Flash Wilson) wrote in message >...
> I have some used slate which I wish to use in the tank...
> ... it's been on my roof 100 years!
>
> I've scrubbed off the dirt and lichen (not that it looked too
> bad) and have a pan of water boiling ready to boil it for ten
> minutes.
>
> Any other suggestions?

Are you putting it into an already stocked tank? If you are, let it
soak overnight in a bucket. Test the pH before you soak it and test
it again after. It may cause the pH to change and you'll want to know
that before you put it in your tank. Then, when your done, tell me
what happened. (Cuz I was thinking of putting slate in my tank too.
:-)

Thanks,
Christie

[Nemo]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..

> Flash, you ask the neatest questions ;~) One hundred years of
> temperature cycling, baked and chilled, rained on and baked with
> pollutants.. hmmm. There would be two things of interest. Can it leech
> and what it would leech.

I find NetMax's concern unwarranted . Slate is a naturally occurring
material, often exposed by natural weathering and erosion processes. In this
case, the material could be exposed to hundreds or thousands of years of
the same cycling and exposure conditions. Why is a roof any different?

Slate is a clay rock so the porosity is very small. Yet the leaching occurs
as a result of chemical diffusion as opposed to fluid flow. Therefore
leaching is a concern in the long term IIF the material contains inclusions
of xenolithinc nature because slate itself is inert. However, this is the
case with *all* slate, not just that removed from a roof.

Any contamination (what?, how different from other naturally occurring
slates?) would be either affixed to the surface chemically or mechanically,
or stuffed between the plates of the layers.

JMHO

Reguards,

[Rick]

"IDzine01" > wrote in message
om...
> (Flash Wilson) wrote in message
>...
> > I have some used slate which I wish to use in the tank...
> > ... it's been on my roof 100 years!
> >
> > I've scrubbed off the dirt and lichen (not that it looked too
> > bad) and have a pan of water boiling ready to boil it for ten
> > minutes.
> >
> > Any other suggestions?
>
> Are you putting it into an already stocked tank? If you are, let it
> soak overnight in a bucket. Test the pH before you soak it and test
> it again after. It may cause the pH to change and you'll want to know
> that before you put it in your tank. Then, when your done, tell me
> what happened. (Cuz I was thinking of putting slate in my tank too.
> :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Christie


I use slate in a number of my tanks and it does not appear to change the PH
at all. Probably most that breed Angels have pieces of slate in their tanks.
I also use it in my Corydoras tanks with no problem however I would be
reluctant to use the stuff off the roof as NetMax has pointed out. You can
buy 12 by 12 slate tiles at Home Depot or Rona for next to nothing.

Rick

[Flash Wilson]

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:57:48 -0500, NetMax > wrote:
>Flash, you ask the neatest questions ;~)

I thank you *grin*

>One hundred years of
>temperature cycling, baked and chilled, rained on and baked with
>pollutants.. hmmm.

Exactly!

>There would be two things of interest. Can it leech
>and what it would leech. The porosity of the material would give you
>some idea of it's potential to leech nasties. When I think of slate,
>it's a non-porous mineral, but when I think of roof tiles, I think of
>clay, so it's at your discretion. Besides it's leeching propensity, the
>question is what would it leech (nasties/non-inert minerals?). Dropping
>a few pieces in a pail for a week with a couple of feeders will answer
>that question. Check pH & gH before and after to see if there is any
>change. Of course, if the feeders die from hemorrhagic septicaemia and
>tumours all over their bodies, then I'd pause before adding the stones to
>the fish tank ;~)

Ouch! :)

To be a little clearer, although I think this may have been covered
by later posts (thanks to everyone for their responses) I'm not worried
about using slate; I use it in my other tanks. The problem is *this*
slate. It's free, and in large pieces (which I don't find at the fish
shop; there it's all broken rubble for which I pay a fortune!) However
it has, as you said, seen a lot more of life than me! :)

By the way, here there is a choice of slate or clay tile for rooves
- most older rooves are slate, as is mine. We don't like the look
of clay tile and can't afford new slates, so we put on an artificial
slate roof when it was replaced. Those definitely are not safe for
fish - they are some kind of composite artificial material and contain
fungicides. So I made sure to hold onto some of the old pieces.

(I think we are meant to replace the roof a little more often than
every hundred years, but never mind. At least it won't need doing
again in my lifetime ;-)

I hadn't thought about popping it in a pail with some fishies...

It's for my axolotl tank. I'd thought about adding some white clouds
to the tank so I might get some, pop them in a bucket with the slate,
and if they don't die, popping the whole lot into the 'lotl tank.

This sounds terribly mercinary however!

But a good idea - thanks :)

>If the slate is not porous, all I would do is a good hand-scrub with an
>aquarium-only brush (I keep just for this task). Testing the stones in
>the pail as described would depend on my emotional and/or financial
>investment in the tank the stones are intended to be used in. hth

My 'lotls were quite expensive... they are hard to find here :(

And although I haven't named them (yet) I'm rather fond of them already.

As an aside, the reason I want big pieces of slate is that they like
to swim lengths and when they get to the side they bump their noses!
If the glass didn't reflect, they might not carry on into it! I've
tried papering the outside, but no good (and if you get down to 'lotl
height, you can see the reflection) - the only way I've cured this
in a tank before is by putting something on the inside... so I thought
of these large slate pieces I have kicking about, to line the edges.

>OT: I find that your posts to newbies are well written common sense
>advice which has helped out many many people. I hope you never get tired
>of writing them.

*blush* Thanks... Ok, I'll carry on then :-)

Thanks again to Netmax and the others who replied for their suggestions,
I think I'll try out the bucket and fish idea... and hope it works out.

--
Flash Wilson Visit my website: http://www.gorge.org
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[coelacanth]

"Nemo" > wrote in message
...
> I find NetMax's concern unwarranted . Slate is a naturally occurring
> material, often exposed by natural weathering and erosion processes. In
this
> case, the material could be exposed to hundreds or thousands of years of
> the same cycling and exposure conditions. Why is a roof any different?
>
> Slate is a clay rock so the porosity is very small. Yet the leaching
occurs
> as a result of chemical diffusion as opposed to fluid flow. Therefore
> leaching is a concern in the long term IIF the material contains
inclusions
> of xenolithinc nature because slate itself is inert. However, this is the
> case with *all* slate, not just that removed from a roof.
>
> Any contamination (what?, how different from other naturally occurring
> slates?) would be either affixed to the surface chemically or
mechanically,
> or stuffed between the plates of the layers.
>
> JMHO
>
> Reguards,
>
I think Flash is in London. Think about what the air was like in
that city in the late Victorian era and then imagine what might
have settled on the roofs of houses during the next 100 years.
Many of these pollutants are the result of burned hydrocarbons,
which are not soluble in water. Even assuming 99.9% of
pollutants washed off, there may still be significant toxic residue
on the slates. I would say this is radically different from slate
which may be exposed for a couple of days/months/years in
a mine far removed from heavy industry.

-coelacanth

[Nemo]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..

> Hi Nemo, thanks for the feedback. You are probably correct. I might be
> a bit overcautious in the newsgroups as natural products like slate are a
> mixture of different minerals, and what I've seen & used here might not
> even go under the same name elsewhere in the world.

This is in response to the replies of "NetMax" and "coelacanth" ...

Folks, you make a good point about the impact of the environment in which
this slate existed. This is why it's important to evaluate things in
context. London at the peak of the industrial revolution was a very polluted
place. It is my understanding that even imported plants had a hard time
growing in this environment necessitating the invention of the terrarium!
:).

Having said this, and realising that Flash intends to test the material in a
bucket, I would like to add few more comments for the sake of curiosity -
while pointing out that my experience in aquaria is negligible compared to
that of NetMax who is a resource on this NG:

1. Acid rain is a solution resulting from carbonic, sulfurous or nitrous
oxides. With the exception of sulfur dioxide, there is nothing in acid rain
that does not already exist or is routinely added to the planted aquarium by
the hobbyist (I think).

2. Industrial pollution is exhibited mostly in volatile compounds - unless
industry is located in the immediate proximity of the rooftops in question.
Heavy metals, for instance, are deposited in close proximity of the source;
once deposited, they are quite immobile. Other volatile effluents from coal
burning, on the other hand, can include partially burnt hydrocarbons as
indicated by coelacanth. These can include/produce PAH's (poly aromatic
hydrocarbons) which are known to be a major risk to aquatic life in natural
surface water systems. Resulting mostly from tars, these compounds are
"oily" and "sticky" in nature, which means they are resistant to scrubbing
and washing. However, they usually have a lower boiling point than water,
and may evaporate or be forced into solution by boiling.

Regards,
Nemo




PS. xenolithic not xenolithinc. The later was one of the many typos
characterising my first reply :O.

def. xenolith: A rock fragment foreign to the rock mass in which it occurs

[NetMax]

"Nemo" > wrote in message
...
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
> > Hi Nemo, thanks for the feedback. You are probably correct. I might
be
> > a bit overcautious in the newsgroups as natural products like slate
are a
> > mixture of different minerals, and what I've seen & used here might
not
> > even go under the same name elsewhere in the world.
>
> This is in response to the replies of "NetMax" and "coelacanth" ...
>
> Folks, you make a good point about the impact of the environment in
which
> this slate existed. This is why it's important to evaluate things in
> context. London at the peak of the industrial revolution was a very
polluted
> place. It is my understanding that even imported plants had a hard time
> growing in this environment necessitating the invention of the
terrarium!
> :).
>
> Having said this, and realising that Flash intends to test the material
in a
> bucket, I would like to add few more comments for the sake of
curiosity -
> while pointing out that my experience in aquaria is negligible compared
to
> that of NetMax who is a resource on this NG:

<snipped technical stuff>

As the topics vary, everybody becomes a resource ;~). This newsgroup's
value increases with the amount of quality participation, and that
depends on whether it's perceived as a constructive environment where
ideas can be 'safely' bounced around. Your post illustrates the civility
and professionalism which fosters exactly that type of environment.
Thanks Nemo and coelacanth.

cheers
NetMax

> Regards,
> Nemo

[Harry Muscle]

"Rick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "IDzine01" > wrote in message
> om...
> > (Flash Wilson) wrote in message
> >...
> > > I have some used slate which I wish to u the tank...
> > > ... it's been on my roof 100 years!
> > >
> > > I've scrubbed off the dirt and lichen (not that it looked too
> > > bad) and have a pan of water boiling ready to boil it for ten
> > > minutes.
> > >
> > > Any other suggestions?
> >
> > Are you putting it into an already stocked tank? If you are, let it
> > soak overnight in a bucket. Test the pH before you soak it and test
> > it again after. It may cause the pH to change and you'll want to know
> > that before you put it in your tank. Then, when your done, tell me
> > what happened. (Cuz I was thinking of putting slate in my tank too.
> > :-)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Christie
>
>
> I use slate in a number of my tanks and it does not appear to change the
PH
> at all. Probably most that breed Angels have pieces of slate in their
tanks.
> I also use it in my Corydoras tanks with no problem however I would be
> reluctant to use the stuff off the roof as NetMax has pointed out. You can
> buy 12 by 12 slate tiles at Home Depot or Rona for next to nothing.
>
> Rick
>
>

Talking about those slate tiles from Home Depot or Rona, are they covered in
a clear coat of anything? I've always wondered that. Or are they just pure
stone. Anybody use these before and have first hand experience of them
being safe in tanks?

Thanks,
Harry




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