sand bed options?

[[email protected]]

Hi,

Anyone have an opinion on the next best alternative to a DSB? I just
don't like the appearance of 4" of sand, or 2" for that matter. No
offense meant--I know most of you use this method. But I've had a 30
gallon FOWLR with 3/4" of crushed coral and a canister filter running
for 10 years with zero nitrates, so I don't see the value of a DSB for
me.

Now that I'm upgrading to a larger tank, I would like to replace the
crushed coral with a thin layer of some type of a finer grain sand for
the sake of appearance. Or should I just stick with what has worked
for me? Or maybe, mix the two. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Grant

[wolf]

Yes, i had good luck with the beautiful sugar fine marine sand, it is white,
and looks very nice.


> wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Anyone have an opinion on the next best alternative to a DSB? I just
> don't like the appearance of 4" of sand, or 2" for that matter. No
> offense meant--I know most of you use this method. But I've had a 30
> gallon FOWLR with 3/4" of crushed coral and a canister filter running
> for 10 years with zero nitrates, so I don't see the value of a DSB for
> me.
>
> Now that I'm upgrading to a larger tank, I would like to replace the
> crushed coral with a thin layer of some type of a finer grain sand for
> the sake of appearance. Or should I just stick with what has worked
> for me? Or maybe, mix the two. Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Grant

[[email protected]]

Thanks guys, for the input.

Grant



On 4 Mar 2006 20:54:59 -0800, "Croosh" > wrote:

>Grant,
>When I was setting my tank I was facing the same dilemma, so I
>originally used about 1" of coarse sand. After some quality time
>scraping algae and having to do water changes every week.
> I ended up siphoning the most of the sane out and replacing it with 3"
>of fine sand, added better skimmer, RO/DI and calcium reactor.
>Later I added 20gal refugium with 5" of fine sand and a bag of
>"critters" (90 gal tank + 30 gal sump) Right now I'm doing semiannual
>water changes and nitrates are not detectable, even though load went up
>a bit.
>A friend of mine has fin only w/LR 55g tank with HOB magnum with some
>kind of nitrate removing resin (chemiclean or something in that regard)
>and two MaxiJet 1200. No other filtration and no sand at all but
>biweekly water changes. He has undetectable nitrates as well.
>
>There are other viable options for nitrate removal besides DSB, such as
>algae scrubbing, nitrate reactor, frequent water changes etc., so it's
>essentially up to you to find a balance between aesthetics and
>maintenance time.
>
>Regards
>Yuriy

[Roy]

I do not go over 1.5" depth opf sand no matter what type of tank I
have setup. Most have less than 1.5". I have sand burrowiing
critters, and even though they may like a deeper bed, they still
thrive and do fine. Deep sand beds can in some cases lead to problems,
more than any thinner bed will ever have. Its also that much less to
worry abaout cleaning below the sand bed, when it starts growoing
algae etc under the sand bed against the glass. IIRC I use about 1#
sand per gal of tank size which for the most part works out to a bed
of about 1 to 1.5" deep.

On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 03:38:32 GMT, wrote:
>><>Hi,
>><>
>><>Anyone have an opinion on the next best alternative to a DSB? I just
>><>don't like the appearance of 4" of sand, or 2" for that matter. No
>><>offense meant--I know most of you use this method. But I've had a 30
>><>gallon FOWLR with 3/4" of crushed coral and a canister filter running
>><>for 10 years with zero nitrates, so I don't see the value of a DSB for
>><>me.
>><>
>><>Now that I'm upgrading to a larger tank, I would like to replace the
>><>crushed coral with a thin layer of some type of a finer grain sand for
>><>the sake of appearance. Or should I just stick with what has worked
>><>for me? Or maybe, mix the two. Any suggestions?
>><>
>><>Thanks,
>><>
>><>Grant

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[[email protected]]

Ok,

Based on what the previous two posters said, I feel good about going
with a finer grain sugar sand, and 1-1.5" is what I had in mind. The
new tank's footprint is larger than the old, so should I keep the
crushed coral and put the new sand on top up to 1.5" or should I just
scrap the crushed coral?

Also, I have this tomato clown that I hate but feel bad getting rid
of. He digs his tail into the crushed coral, wiggles his whole body,
and flings substrate about 8" in every direction. I can only assume
that the effect will be worse with a finer grain sand. Any
suggestions? Thanks again.

Grant



On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:48:51 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

>I do not go over 1.5" depth opf sand no matter what type of tank I
>have setup. Most have less than 1.5". I have sand burrowiing
>critters, and even though they may like a deeper bed, they still
>thrive and do fine. Deep sand beds can in some cases lead to problems,
>more than any thinner bed will ever have. Its also that much less to
>worry abaout cleaning below the sand bed, when it starts growoing
>algae etc under the sand bed against the glass. IIRC I use about 1#
>sand per gal of tank size which for the most part works out to a bed
>of about 1 to 1.5" deep.
>
>On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 03:38:32 GMT, wrote:
>>><>Hi,
>>><>
>>><>Anyone have an opinion on the next best alternative to a DSB? I just
>>><>don't like the appearance of 4" of sand, or 2" for that matter. No
>>><>offense meant--I know most of you use this method. But I've had a 30
>>><>gallon FOWLR with 3/4" of crushed coral and a canister filter running
>>><>for 10 years with zero nitrates, so I don't see the value of a DSB for
>>><>me.
>>><>
>>><>Now that I'm upgrading to a larger tank, I would like to replace the
>>><>crushed coral with a thin layer of some type of a finer grain sand for
>>><>the sake of appearance. Or should I just stick with what has worked
>>><>for me? Or maybe, mix the two. Any suggestions?
>>><>
>>><>Thanks,
>>><>
>>><>Grant

[[email protected]]

I've had a 25 gallon tank going for two and a half years now with less
than an inch of crushed coral. The tank happily houses a 6" diameter
BTA, a 4" diameter rose BTA, a few sexy shrimp, a coral banded shrimp,
some colony polyps, a black long spined urchen, three clowns, a royal
gramma, and temproraily a baby blue tang (which will be moved into my
100 gallon tank when he gets bigger). The tank regularly reads 0
nitrite and less than 5 ppm nitrate.

The tank is an Eclipse system 3, with a hood that has been retrofitted
with a 65 watt power compact light (50/50 10000k/actinic). I also use
the bio-wheel that is built into the hood, though I know many will
claim the bio-wheel leads to high nitrates. In my particular case that
doesn't seem to be true. I don't use a skimmer.

The only problem with this setup is that it grows green hair algae. A
lot of green hair algae. I do water changes every two weeks (20%) and
usually spend about twenty minutes picking algae off the rocks with a
pair of big tweesers.

I do have a deep sand bed in my 100 gallon tank with 55 gallon sump,
but really only because I wanted to house a sand shifting starfish and
they require pretty deep sand. The starfish does a fantastic job
keeping the surface of the sand looking clean, whereas my crushed coral
in the 25 gallon tank is rather brownish.

I'm pretty sure the algae growth is due to excessive nutrients in the
water as I feed the anemones rather large chunks of shrimp or scallop
every other day to compensate for the rather weak light. I'm
considering upgrading to a 96 watt T5 system (my research indicates
that this is roughly equivilant to 130 watts of power compact) and
replacing the bio-wheel with a prism skimmer. I have no plans to
deepen the sand bed.

I think that the reason the tank works is probably due to the algae.
Algae can complete the nitrogen cycle just like the anerobic bacteria
in deep sand beds can. I have a bit of macro algae growing in the tank
and every time I harvest some of the green hair algae it gets a bit
bigger. Hopefully eventually the macro will be the dominant one and
inhibit the growth of the hair algae.

Another way to avoid needing a deep sand bed would be to have a bunch
of live rock in areas in the tank were there isn't much water
circulation. The main thing is to have areas where anerobic bacteria
can live. This means having areas of the tank where the water does not
contain much oxygen. In a deep sand bed the water two or three inches
below the surface of the sand doesn't have much oxygen in it, which is
why it supports anerobic bacteria which do the job of converting
nitrate in to good old harmless nitrogen.

Hope you were able to gleam some useful information from this long
winded reply. Best of luck!
Blake.


wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Anyone have an opinion on the next best alternative to a DSB? I just
> don't like the appearance of 4" of sand, or 2" for that matter. No
> offense meant--I know most of you use this method. But I've had a 30
> gallon FOWLR with 3/4" of crushed coral and a canister filter running
> for 10 years with zero nitrates, so I don't see the value of a DSB for
> me.
>
> Now that I'm upgrading to a larger tank, I would like to replace the
> crushed coral with a thin layer of some type of a finer grain sand for
> the sake of appearance. Or should I just stick with what has worked
> for me? Or maybe, mix the two. Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Grant

[Roy]

I would get all of the crush coral out and go with nothing but
sand....

You may be surprised that once a bit of bacteria is establishe din
the sand it doe snot seem to fly around as much as it sort of adheres
together more, or at least thats what it looks like. I have one pico
tank with a small goby and shrimp and the goby is always stirring the
sand up. Its nothing but regular fine white beach sand i got years
back out of the gulf of mexico on the Florida pan handle, and its
really not been much of a problem, just don't direct a powerhead too
close.

Do you have an anenome for the clown to host with? I do not have them
in all my tanks and the tanks without an anenomen the clown in that
tanks does the same thing as yours does, however the ones with an
anenome rarely ever sand surf.




On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:11:26 GMT, wrote:
>><>Ok,
>><>
>><>Based on what the previous two posters said, I feel good about going
>><>with a finer grain sugar sand, and 1-1.5" is what I had in mind. The
>><>new tank's footprint is larger than the old, so should I keep the
>><>crushed coral and put the new sand on top up to 1.5" or should I just
>><>scrap the crushed coral?
>><>
>><>Also, I have this tomato clown that I hate but feel bad getting rid
>><>of. He digs his tail into the crushed coral, wiggles his whole body,
>><>and flings substrate about 8" in every direction. I can only assume
>><>that the effect will be worse with a finer grain sand. Any
>><>suggestions? Thanks again.
>><>
>><>Grant
>><>
>><>
>><>
>><>On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:48:51 GMT, (Roy) wrote:
>><>
>><>>I do not go over 1.5" depth opf sand no matter what type of tank I
>><>>have setup. Most have less than 1.5". I have sand burrowiing
>><>>critters, and even though they may like a deeper bed, they still
>><>>thrive and do fine. Deep sand beds can in some cases lead to problems,
>><>>more than any thinner bed will ever have. Its also that much less to
>><>>worry abaout cleaning below the sand bed, when it starts growoing
>><>>algae etc under the sand bed against the glass. IIRC I use about 1#
>><>>sand per gal of tank size which for the most part works out to a bed
>><>>of about 1 to 1.5" deep.
>><>>
>><>>On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 03:38:32 GMT, wrote:
>><>>>><>Hi,
>><>>>><>
>><>>>><>Anyone have an opinion on the next best alternative to a DSB? I just
>><>>>><>don't like the appearance of 4" of sand, or 2" for that matter. No
>><>>>><>offense meant--I know most of you use this method. But I've had a 30
>><>>>><>gallon FOWLR with 3/4" of crushed coral and a canister filter running
>><>>>><>for 10 years with zero nitrates, so I don't see the value of a DSB for
>><>>>><>me.
>><>>>><>
>><>>>><>Now that I'm upgrading to a larger tank, I would like to replace the
>><>>>><>crushed coral with a thin layer of some type of a finer grain sand for
>><>>>><>the sake of appearance. Or should I just stick with what has worked
>><>>>><>for me? Or maybe, mix the two. Any suggestions?
>><>>>><>
>><>>>><>Thanks,
>><>>>><>
>><>>>><>Grant

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Wayne Sallee]

Best to use the fin calcium sand, and ditch the coral gravel.

Finer sand will denitrify with a shallower depth than
courser sand.

If you build your own stand, you can put a lip on the
stand to cover a portion of the bottom of the tank.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



wrote on 3/4/2006 10:38 PM:
> Hi,
>
> Anyone have an opinion on the next best alternative to a DSB? I just
> don't like the appearance of 4" of sand, or 2" for that matter. No
> offense meant--I know most of you use this method. But I've had a 30
> gallon FOWLR with 3/4" of crushed coral and a canister filter running
> for 10 years with zero nitrates, so I don't see the value of a DSB for
> me.
>
> Now that I'm upgrading to a larger tank, I would like to replace the
> crushed coral with a thin layer of some type of a finer grain sand for
> the sake of appearance. Or should I just stick with what has worked
> for me? Or maybe, mix the two. Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Grant

[[email protected]]

Thanks again everybody, for all the advice.

Grant



On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 21:51:09 GMT, Wayne Sallee >
wrote:

>Best to use the fin calcium sand, and ditch the coral gravel.
>
>Finer sand will denitrify with a shallower depth than
>courser sand.
>
>If you build your own stand, you can put a lip on the
>stand to cover a portion of the bottom of the tank.
>
>Wayne Sallee
>Wayne's Pets

>
>
wrote on 3/4/2006 10:38 PM:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Anyone have an opinion on the next best alternative to a DSB? I just
>> don't like the appearance of 4" of sand, or 2" for that matter. No
>> offense meant--I know most of you use this method. But I've had a 30
>> gallon FOWLR with 3/4" of crushed coral and a canister filter running
>> for 10 years with zero nitrates, so I don't see the value of a DSB for
>> me.
>>
>> Now that I'm upgrading to a larger tank, I would like to replace the
>> crushed coral with a thin layer of some type of a finer grain sand for
>> the sake of appearance. Or should I just stick with what has worked
>> for me? Or maybe, mix the two. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Grant