Re: Comet tails

[Koi-Lo]

Moments before spontaneously combusting <humBill> at >
was heard opining:

> Hi all
> Here in Austin we have had a particularly mild winter. Nonetheless
> the fish have not be active and I have not been feeding them for
> about three months. They have pretty much been out of sight hunkering
> down under a bunch of anacharis I have been letting grow, as possible
> protecting from an occasional Heron visit. Now that I have begun
> feeding again and they are out and active I am noticing a problem.
> Some tails on the comets who have the longest tails seems to be
> splitting somewhat.

It may be time for a partial water change. Is there a lot of decaying
debris on the bottom along with the anacharis? Start by checking the PH to
see if it dropped over the winter.

My first thought is fin rot, but I don't see any
> loss yet and the water parameters are perfect. It is only the ones
> with very long, flowing finnage.

What were the parameters? How high were the nitrate readings?

While not as extreme it is vaguely
> reminiscent of how a flag sometimes shreds on the back end from
> whipping in the wind, except the splits are not as numerous and are
> longer (1"-1 1/2").
> Any thoughts on what may be causing this? Is it a concern? What
> remedies might I try. I thought about adding some Mela Fix but I
> don't want to waste money needlessly.

Before adding anything - what were the parameters and when was the last
partial water change?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[humBill]

Thanks for the quick response
Water quality 0-0-trace - Am- Nitri- Nitra
pH 7.6 Normal, kH 120 - gH - 180
The bottom is fairly clean. Even where muck collects agains pots etc a
pool skimmer will only capture a very fine layer (not measureable) and an
occasional Oak leaf blown in from the other side of the yard. My Nitrates
are always very low - I have lotsa plants. I do have a very heavy fish load.

I rarely change water at all. Many of the ponders around here aren't high on
water changes as the pH tends to be much higher going in than before it
stabilizes and chloramine water is very difficult to neutralize without
putting about a 6X dose. The pond is also full sun. It seems new water can
lead to algae bloom. While my pond is not crystal clear mid summer, it is
quite visible - so I don't mess with the 'balanced pond'. I did actually do
about a 60% change accidentally,
about last October, when my sink filter outflow clogged up and overflowed.
What do you feel is accomplished with water changes?

There are a few fish missing, which I cannot find. I suspect that is why
they have been hiding all winter (Heron) but if they just died and rotted in
the water I don't know what problems that might manifest.

btw - You had given me your opinion in FW or GF a while back about my curved
spine, large, lethargic Oranda. It did pass 2-3 months later (as you
surmised).

Thanks for your help
Bill

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> Moments before spontaneously combusting <humBill> at
> > was heard opining:
>
>> Hi all
>> Here in Austin we have had a particularly mild winter. Nonetheless
>> the fish have not be active and I have not been feeding them for
>> about three months. They have pretty much been out of sight hunkering
>> down under a bunch of anacharis I have been letting grow, as possible
>> protecting from an occasional Heron visit. Now that I have begun
>> feeding again and they are out and active I am noticing a problem.
>> Some tails on the comets who have the longest tails seems to be
>> splitting somewhat.
>
> It may be time for a partial water change. Is there a lot of decaying
> debris on the bottom along with the anacharis? Start by checking the PH
> to see if it dropped over the winter.
>
> My first thought is fin rot, but I don't see any
>> loss yet and the water parameters are perfect. It is only the ones
>> with very long, flowing finnage.
>
> What were the parameters? How high were the nitrate readings?
>
> While not as extreme it is vaguely
>> reminiscent of how a flag sometimes shreds on the back end from
>> whipping in the wind, except the splits are not as numerous and are
>> longer (1"-1 1/2").
>> Any thoughts on what may be causing this? Is it a concern? What
>> remedies might I try. I thought about adding some Mela Fix but I
>> don't want to waste money needlessly.
>
> Before adding anything - what were the parameters and when was the last
> partial water change?
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>

[Koi-Lo]

"humBill" > wrote in message
om...
> Thanks for the quick response
> Water quality 0-0-trace - Am- Nitri- Nitra
> pH 7.6 Normal, kH 120 - gH - 180
> The bottom is fairly clean. Even where muck collects agains pots etc a
> pool skimmer will only capture a very fine layer (not measureable) and an
> occasional Oak leaf blown in from the other side of the yard. My Nitrates
> are always very low - I have lotsa plants. I do have a very heavy fish
> load.

How low are your nitrates? Below 40ppm? If over that you need to start
doing partial water changes.

> I rarely change water at all.

Then how do you dilute and remove contaminants from the fish and decaying
plants? What is the PH of your water? Is it very hard water?

Many of the ponders around here aren't high on
> water changes as the pH tends to be much higher going in than before it
> stabilizes and chloramine water is very difficult to neutralize without
> putting about a 6X dose.

Then how do you remove natural contaminants? They wont go away by
themselves. :-)

The pond is also full sun. It seems new water can
> lead to algae bloom. While my pond is not crystal clear mid summer, it is
> quite visible - so I don't mess with the 'balanced pond'. I did actually
> do about a 60% change accidentally,
> about last October, when my sink filter outflow clogged up and overflowed.
> What do you feel is accomplished with water changes?

It's the only way to dilute and remove contaminants and keep the water from
becoming too hard and too acid.

> There are a few fish missing, which I cannot find. I suspect that is why
> they have been hiding all winter (Heron) but if they just died and rotted
> in
> the water I don't know what problems that might manifest.

If you have herons in the area you can be sure they'll take as many of your
fish as possible - but so will bullfrogs, water snakes and Kingfishers.

> btw - You had given me your opinion in FW or GF a while back about my
> curved
> spine, large, lethargic Oranda. It did pass 2-3 months later (as you
> surmised).
>
> Thanks for your help
> Bill

--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[humBill]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "humBill" > wrote in message
> om...
>> Thanks for the quick response
>> Water quality 0-0-trace - Am- Nitri- Nitra
>> pH 7.6 Normal, kH 120 - gH - 180
>> The bottom is fairly clean. Even where muck collects agains pots etc a
>> pool skimmer will only capture a very fine layer (not measureable) and an
>> occasional Oak leaf blown in from the other side of the yard. My
>> Nitrates
>> are always very low - I have lotsa plants. I do have a very heavy fish
>> load.
>
> How low are your nitrates? Below 40ppm? If over that you need to start
> doing partial water changes.

Perhaps my abbreviations above were too cryptic.
My Nitrates are just a slight shade above 0 not even 5 ppm.

>> I rarely change water at all.
>
> Then how do you dilute and remove contaminants from the fish and decaying
> plants? What is the PH of your water? Is it very hard water?

You mention several times natural contaminants. I am not sure what that is
other than Ammonia, Nitrities and Nitrates. My pH is always right in the
middle of 7 and 8. It is a bit hard with a gH of about 180 - I believe the
scale calls that moderately hard.

> Many of the ponders around here aren't high on
>> water changes as the pH tends to be much higher going in than before it
>> stabilizes and chloramine water is very difficult to neutralize without
>> putting about a 6X dose.
>
> Then how do you remove natural contaminants? They wont go away by
> themselves. :-)
>

I do of course 'dechloraminate' if I top off the pond. But adding an
occasional 50 gallons (5 %) seems to have little effect on the pond
'balance'. Our water seems to come complete with ammonia, nitrites and
nitrates. I do regular water changes in my aquariums, which is why I know I
have to dose at almost 6X recommended to neutralize it - the Nitrites seem
to be the last to be neutralized.

> The pond is also full sun. It seems new water can
>> lead to algae bloom. While my pond is not crystal clear mid summer, it
>> is quite visible - so I don't mess with the 'balanced pond'. I did
>> actually do about a 60% change accidentally,
>> about last October, when my sink filter outflow clogged up and
>> overflowed.
>> What do you feel is accomplished with water changes?

> It's the only way to dilute and remove contaminants and keep the water
> from becoming too hard and too acid.

Old water getting harder is new info to me. I did not realize this. I will
monitor it a bit more closely to make sure this is not becoming a problem,
but for 2 1/2 years it has not been.

>> There are a few fish missing, which I cannot find. I suspect that is why
>> they have been hiding all winter (Heron) but if they just died and rotted
>> in
>> the water I don't know what problems that might manifest.
>
> If you have herons in the area you can be sure they'll take as many of
> your fish as possible - but so will bullfrogs, water snakes and
> Kingfishers.
>
>> btw - You had given me your opinion in FW or GF a while back about my
>> curved
>> spine, large, lethargic Oranda. It did pass 2-3 months later (as you
>> surmised).
>>
>> Thanks for your help
>> Bill


And thanks again!

> --
>
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>
>

[Koi-Lo]

"humBill" > wrote in message
. net...
>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "humBill" > wrote in message
>> om...
>>> Thanks for the quick response
>>> Water quality 0-0-trace - Am- Nitri- Nitra
>>> pH 7.6 Normal, kH 120 - gH - 180
>>> The bottom is fairly clean. Even where muck collects agains pots etc a
>>> pool skimmer will only capture a very fine layer (not measureable) and
>>> an
>>> occasional Oak leaf blown in from the other side of the yard. My
>>> Nitrates
>>> are always very low - I have lotsa plants. I do have a very heavy fish
>>> load.
>>
>> How low are your nitrates? Below 40ppm? If over that you need to start
>> doing partial water changes.
>
> Perhaps my abbreviations above were too cryptic.
> My Nitrates are just a slight shade above 0 not even 5 ppm.

That sounds good to me.

>>> I rarely change water at all.
>>
>> Then how do you dilute and remove contaminants from the fish and decaying
>> plants? What is the PH of your water? Is it very hard water?

> You mention several times natural contaminants. I am not sure what that
> is other than Ammonia, Nitrities and Nitrates.

That's what's left after the fish feces, leaves, twigs, dead insects and
plant parts are broken down and dissolved in the water. Also anything that
comes down in snow and rainfall. Any dies in the fish food you use and any
fish or frogs that perish and decompose in the water.

My pH is always right in the
> middle of 7 and 8. It is a bit hard with a gH of about 180 - I believe
> the scale calls that moderately hard.

Those are good readings. :-)

>> Many of the ponders around here aren't high on
>>> water changes as the pH tends to be much higher going in than before it
>>> stabilizes and chloramine water is very difficult to neutralize without
>>> putting about a 6X dose.
>>
>> Then how do you remove natural contaminants? They wont go away by
>> themselves. :-)

> I do of course 'dechloraminate' if I top off the pond. But adding an
> occasional 50 gallons (5 %) seems to have little effect on the pond
> 'balance'. Our water seems to come complete with ammonia, nitrites and
> nitrates. I do regular water changes in my aquariums, which is why I know
> I have to dose at almost 6X recommended to neutralize it - the Nitrites
> seem to be the last to be neutralized.

What neutralizes *nitrates?* Plants use some of them,... but a neutralizer
for them?!?!?!

> > The pond is also full sun. It seems new water can
>>> lead to algae bloom. While my pond is not crystal clear mid summer, it
>>> is quite visible - so I don't mess with the 'balanced pond'. I did
>>> actually do about a 60% change accidentally,
>>> about last October, when my sink filter outflow clogged up and
>>> overflowed.
>>> What do you feel is accomplished with water changes?
>
>> It's the only way to dilute and remove contaminants and keep the water
>> from becoming too hard and too acid.

> Old water getting harder is new info to me. I did not realize this.

As water evaporates it leaves the minerals behind. Each time you add more
water you add MORE minerals. Over time the water can become extremely hard
(loaded with these minerals). It can also lose if buffering power and
become more acidic as time passes. Doing tests at least every 2 months
would help you to know what's happening to your water.

I will
> monitor it a bit more closely to make sure this is not becoming a problem,
> but for 2 1/2 years it has not been.

That is really odd unless you get a lot of rain and your pond is
overflowing - removing the buildup. But rain brings other pollutants as it
falls through the atmosphere.

>
> And thanks again!
>
I hope I've been of some help.

[~ janj]

>On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:02:58 GMT, "humBill" > wrote:

>What do you feel is accomplished with water changes?

See http://tinyurl.com/z5qnw

Best scenario, frequent and small.

>There are a few fish missing, which I cannot find.

I suspect this is what has caused the split tails, quick and fast swimming
to get away from something. ~ jan

--------------
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www.jjspond.us

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Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
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