Help!!!! I've got ICH :-((

[Sam]

I have had Ich once before and lost the tank.

I tried the heat salt and super ich plus (malachite green and quinine
hydrochloride) and still lost most of the tank.

I feel sick. it happened in my main tank
30 gal
all parameters were in the safe range.
amonia was 0 and has been for at least a month.
below are the fish in the tank. the ones denoted are the only ones sick.

2 Dwarf Gourami
2 Golden Wonder Killifish (one has, one does not)
1 Dwarf Loach
2 Skunk Cory
2 Flag Cichlid (both have BAD)
1 Glofish
1 Rubber lipped pleco (really bad)

Please help if you can.
Sam

[JC Lewis]

Raise the temp to about 75-78*Celsius ,,, add yer 'ich' medicine,,, change
1/3 water in a few days, keep yer temp raised, add yer 'ich' medicine again
& follow medication instructions, after about a week, do another 1/3 water
change.
If 'ich' has totally gone, lower temp to normal. Otherwise keep treating
for ich.

Also cut back on feeding. Less food with prevent unwanted pollution &
waste. I have noticed fish will tend to stay healthier if they are fed
less.. I got this hint from west coast fish farms.

The raised temp will speed up incubation period of the ich eggs, thus
releasing new ich into the already medicated water.

Keep about a dozen copper pennies in the tank as well. ( the older ones are
real copper),,, this will help prevent disease in the future too.

You may have to quarantine the sick fish as well if they get worse.

Good Luck
Jim


--


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"Sam" > wrote in message
...
> I have had Ich once before and lost the tank.
>
> I tried the heat salt and super ich plus (malachite green and quinine
> hydrochloride) and still lost most of the tank.
>
> I feel sick. it happened in my main tank
> 30 gal
> all parameters were in the safe range.
> amonia was 0 and has been for at least a month.
> below are the fish in the tank. the ones denoted are the only ones sick.
>
> 2 Dwarf Gourami
> 2 Golden Wonder Killifish (one has, one does not)
> 1 Dwarf Loach
> 2 Skunk Cory
> 2 Flag Cichlid (both have BAD)
> 1 Glofish
> 1 Rubber lipped pleco (really bad)
>
> Please help if you can.
> Sam
>
>
>
>

[Rikko]

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:53:18 GMT, "JC Lewis" > wrote:

>Raise the temp to about 75-78*Celsius ,,, add yer 'ich' medicine,,, change
>1/3 water in a few days, keep yer temp raised, add yer 'ich' medicine again
>& follow medication instructions, after about a week, do another 1/3 water
>change.
>If 'ich' has totally gone, lower temp to normal. Otherwise keep treating
>for ich.
>
>Also cut back on feeding. Less food with prevent unwanted pollution &
>waste. I have noticed fish will tend to stay healthier if they are fed
>less.. I got this hint from west coast fish farms.
>
>The raised temp will speed up incubation period of the ich eggs, thus
>releasing new ich into the already medicated water.
>
>Keep about a dozen copper pennies in the tank as well. ( the older ones are
>real copper),,, this will help prevent disease in the future too.
>
>You may have to quarantine the sick fish as well if they get worse.
>
>Good Luck
>Jim

I'm sure it's obvious to most - but while 75-78*Celsius will certainly
kill ich, it'll also kill a human being in a few seconds.... :P

(And a reply to original post...)
How bad is the infestation? If you catch it early, giving the affected
fish salt dips (a high concentration for 3 minutes or so per day) and
using 50% of the medication strength in the tank has worked well for
me. I try to raise the water to the low-80's (perhaps 85 tops if I'm
sure the species can handle it) for the duration.

Malachite green is pretty nasty stuff - I try to avoid using it
entirely unless I can avoid it.

Never underestimate the value of big water changes, either.

[Paulo]

He is talking 80 F!!!!...

--
Paulo
"Rikko" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:53:18 GMT, "JC Lewis" > wrote:
>
> >Raise the temp to about 75-78*Celsius ,,, add yer 'ich' medicine,,,
change
> >1/3 water in a few days, keep yer temp raised, add yer 'ich' medicine
again
> >& follow medication instructions, after about a week, do another 1/3
water
> >change.
> >If 'ich' has totally gone, lower temp to normal. Otherwise keep treating
> >for ich.
> >
> >Also cut back on feeding. Less food with prevent unwanted pollution &
> >waste. I have noticed fish will tend to stay healthier if they are fed
> >less.. I got this hint from west coast fish farms.
> >
> >The raised temp will speed up incubation period of the ich eggs, thus
> >releasing new ich into the already medicated water.
> >
> >Keep about a dozen copper pennies in the tank as well. ( the older ones
are
> >real copper),,, this will help prevent disease in the future too.
> >
> >You may have to quarantine the sick fish as well if they get worse.
> >
> >Good Luck
> >Jim
>
> I'm sure it's obvious to most - but while 75-78*Celsius will certainly
> kill ich, it'll also kill a human being in a few seconds.... :P
>
> (And a reply to original post...)
> How bad is the infestation? If you catch it early, giving the affected
> fish salt dips (a high concentration for 3 minutes or so per day) and
> using 50% of the medication strength in the tank has worked well for
> me. I try to raise the water to the low-80's (perhaps 85 tops if I'm
> sure the species can handle it) for the duration.
>
> Malachite green is pretty nasty stuff - I try to avoid using it
> entirely unless I can avoid it.
>
> Never underestimate the value of big water changes, either.

[newbie]

Copper Pennies?
What's the scope on that?


"JC Lewis" > wrote in message
news:O9g1c.39424$n17.15870@clgrps13...
> Raise the temp to about 75-78*Celsius ,,, add yer 'ich' medicine,,,
change
> 1/3 water in a few days, keep yer temp raised, add yer 'ich' medicine
again
> & follow medication instructions, after about a week, do another 1/3 water
> change.
> If 'ich' has totally gone, lower temp to normal. Otherwise keep treating
> for ich.
>
> Also cut back on feeding. Less food with prevent unwanted pollution &
> waste. I have noticed fish will tend to stay healthier if they are fed
> less.. I got this hint from west coast fish farms.
>
> The raised temp will speed up incubation period of the ich eggs, thus
> releasing new ich into the already medicated water.
>
> Keep about a dozen copper pennies in the tank as well. ( the older ones
are
> real copper),,, this will help prevent disease in the future too.
>
> You may have to quarantine the sick fish as well if they get worse.
>
> Good Luck
> Jim
>
>
> --
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM!
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>
>
> "Sam" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have had Ich once before and lost the tank.
> >
> > I tried the heat salt and super ich plus (malachite green and quinine
> > hydrochloride) and still lost most of the tank.
> >
> > I feel sick. it happened in my main tank
> > 30 gal
> > all parameters were in the safe range.
> > amonia was 0 and has been for at least a month.
> > below are the fish in the tank. the ones denoted are the only ones
sick.
> >
> > 2 Dwarf Gourami
> > 2 Golden Wonder Killifish (one has, one does not)
> > 1 Dwarf Loach
> > 2 Skunk Cory
> > 2 Flag Cichlid (both have BAD)
> > 1 Glofish
> > 1 Rubber lipped pleco (really bad)
> >
> > Please help if you can.
> > Sam
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Help!!!! I've got ICH :-((
>From: "JC Lewis"
>Date: 3/3/2004 1:53 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <O9g1c.39424$n17.15870@clgrps13>
>
>Raise the temp to about 75-78*Celsius ,,, add yer 'ich' medicine,,, change
>1/3 water in a few days, keep yer temp raised, add yer 'ich' medicine again
>& follow medication instructions, after about a week, do another 1/3 water
>change.
>If 'ich' has totally gone, lower temp to normal. Otherwise keep treating
>for ich.
>
>Also cut back on feeding. Less food with prevent unwanted pollution &
>waste. I have noticed fish will tend to stay healthier if they are fed
>less.. I got this hint from west coast fish farms.
>
>The raised temp will speed up incubation period of the ich eggs, thus
>releasing new ich into the already medicated water.
>
>Keep about a dozen copper pennies in the tank as well. ( the older ones are
>real copper),,, this will help prevent disease in the future too.
>
>You may have to quarantine the sick fish as well if they get worse.
>
>Good Luck
>Jim
>

I wouldn't suggest adding Copper pennies to an aquarium. Copper can be toxic.
The best med I've used for Ich would be Quick Cure.
I suggest doing a water change (25%), removing any carbon from your filter (if
you have a filter pad that has carbon inside it and it is sealed..just make a
slit at the top and dump the carbon out, put back the filter pad.
Dose the tank with Quick Cure, per directions, but use for a week, not 3 days
like the bottle says.
After treatement, do another 25% water change and add new carbon.
Do not use Quick Cure on snails, Shrimp or crabs etc... or scaleless fish.

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Help!!!! I've got ICH :-((
>From: "newbie"
>Date: 3/3/2004 8:09 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <jGl1c.108785$4o.128393@attbi_s52>
>
>Copper Pennies?
>What's the scope on that?
>

Copper can be toxic!!!!
It's even recommended that hobbyists *not* use products containing "safe" forms
of it.

[Rikko]

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:09:19 GMT, "newbie" >
wrote:

>Copper Pennies?
>What's the scope on that?

Read up on any copper medications like Copper Safe or Aquarisol.. The
copper salts in them have good antiparasitic effects, though I'm not
sure I'd want them in my tank over the long term.
I've never heard of putting pennies in the tank - I wouldn't think
that they'd actually release anything into the water, but I've never
tried it.

[JC Lewis]

hey, ya,,,,,, my mistake about the temp in Celsius.. heheheh,, Being in
Canada, everything is in the metric version, & I'm still trying to convert..
I did mean Fahrenheit. I agree a higher temp is good, if the fish can take
it. But raise the temp slowly!!

As for the copper pennies, there is a medication for parasites that has a
copper base, (I forget the names of these things), and I have found a few
don't hurt the fish at all.
I keep about 6 or so in the bottom of my outside filter. It is the
oxidization of the copper in the water that does the effect.

Be careful with the salt treatments in the tank, some fish are sensitive to
the salt. Also live plants will not tolerate it very much & that beautiful
aqua jungle can diminish real fast.

Jim

--


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"Sam" > wrote in message
...
> I have had Ich once before and lost the tank.
>
> I tried the heat salt and super ich plus (malachite green and quinine
> hydrochloride) and still lost most of the tank.
>
> I feel sick. it happened in my main tank
> 30 gal
> all parameters were in the safe range.
> amonia was 0 and has been for at least a month.
> below are the fish in the tank. the ones denoted are the only ones sick.
>
> 2 Dwarf Gourami
> 2 Golden Wonder Killifish (one has, one does not)
> 1 Dwarf Loach
> 2 Skunk Cory
> 2 Flag Cichlid (both have BAD)
> 1 Glofish
> 1 Rubber lipped pleco (really bad)
>
> Please help if you can.
> Sam
>
>
>
>

[Rikko]

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:43:02 GMT, "JC Lewis" > wrote:

>hey, ya,,,,,, my mistake about the temp in Celsius.. heheheh,, Being in
>Canada, everything is in the metric version, & I'm still trying to convert..
>I did mean Fahrenheit. I agree a higher temp is good, if the fish can take
>it. But raise the temp slowly!!
>
>As for the copper pennies, there is a medication for parasites that has a
>copper base, (I forget the names of these things), and I have found a few
>don't hurt the fish at all.
>I keep about 6 or so in the bottom of my outside filter. It is the
>oxidization of the copper in the water that does the effect.
>
>Be careful with the salt treatments in the tank, some fish are sensitive to
>the salt. Also live plants will not tolerate it very much & that beautiful
>aqua jungle can diminish real fast.
>
>Jim

Woops, thanks for pointing that out about the salt.
I've had great luck using the dip method for tetras, small danios,
rasboras, etc..
I know corydoras (and by extension probably most cats) don't tolerate
salt, nor do many types of scaleless fish.
I did have decent luck using it on a batch of small plecos I was sure
was going to kick the bucket (bad shipment).. To my surprise, a few
miserable minutes in the salt and they were very much perked up when
they went back in the tank. They were even eating after an hour and I
think only one died after that.

As for salting a main tank - I never really like doing that largely
for the reasons you gave: some fish don't tolerate it, and plants will
perish. Plus, it's nigh impossible to remove when you're done (unless
carbon will trap dissolved salts? I don't think so) short of constant
large water changes.

[IDzine01]

I thought copper was to be avoided, No?

Anyway. Depending on where you're located, try and get RidICH. It's
handsdown the best way to treat it.

(ok someone's going to argue that one) So I'll say, IMO, it's the best
and I wouldn't use anything else.

Here's a great link on understanding ICH and how it lives...
http://www.aquamaniacs.net/ich.html

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Help!!!! I've got ICH :-((
>From: (IDzine01)
>Date: 3/4/2004 1:01 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>I thought copper was to be avoided, No?
>
>Anyway. Depending on where you're located, try and get RidICH. It's
>handsdown the best way to treat it.
>
>(ok someone's going to argue that one) So I'll say, IMO, it's the best
>and I wouldn't use anything else.
>
>Here's a great link on understanding ICH and how it lives...
>http://www.aquamaniacs.net/ich.html
>

If I'm not mistaken, RidIch and Quick Cure have the same meds in them.

[jessie]

copper can kill invertibrates... shrimp, snails...
and if you've ever put copper in your tank you can't convert it to a reef
tank cause it will just kill everything. (except fish)


"IDzine01" > wrote in message
om...
> I thought copper was to be avoided, No?
>
> Anyway. Depending on where you're located, try and get RidICH. It's
> handsdown the best way to treat it.
>
> (ok someone's going to argue that one) So I'll say, IMO, it's the best
> and I wouldn't use anything else.
>
> Here's a great link on understanding ICH and how it lives...
> http://www.aquamaniacs.net/ich.html

[Dark Phoenix]

"Rikko" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:43:02 GMT, "JC Lewis" > wrote:
>> As for salting a main tank - I never really like doing that largely
> for the reasons you gave: some fish don't tolerate it, and plants will
> perish. Plus, it's nigh impossible to remove when you're done (unless
> carbon will trap dissolved salts? I don't think so) short of constant
> large water changes.

I've read that you use salt OR malachite, but not both at the same time.
Gill burns or something of the sort. I've used both treatments; they seemed
to work about the same. (on goldfish)

--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

Here I am! Now, what were your other two wishes?

[NetMax]

"Sam" > wrote in message
...
> I have had Ich once before and lost the tank.
>
> I tried the heat salt and super ich plus (malachite green and quinine
> hydrochloride) and still lost most of the tank.

Heat will accelerate the Ich's life cycle, and kill off some of the Ich,
but will also stress the fish by reducing the dissolved oxygen levels and
increasing their metabolism. If your fish are already stressed, I would
skip the heat.

> I feel sick. it happened in my main tank
> 30 gal
> all parameters were in the safe range.
> amonia was 0 and has been for at least a month.

It is unlikely that all the parameters were good all the time. Perhaps
when you measured, they were good, or the ones you measured were good.
An ammonia spike could be cleared by the time Ich manifested itself. A
build up of DOCs could make them sick and you probably don't measure for
that.

> below are the fish in the tank. the ones denoted are the only ones
sick.
>
> 2 Dwarf Gourami
> 2 Golden Wonder Killifish (one has, one does not)
> 1 Dwarf Loach
> 2 Skunk Cory
> 2 Flag Cichlid (both have BAD)
> 1 Glofish
> 1 Rubber lipped pleco (really bad)
>
> Please help if you can.
> Sam

The suggestion to use copper (in treatments or in pennies) would be
hazardous imo. Copper toxicity is by degrees, such that parasites are
the first things killed, then invertebrates such as snails go next, and
then the fish themselves. The dosage which kills one thing and does not
affect another is quite close, and often misjudged, resulting in stress
and sometimes death to the fish. Copper as a parasite treatment has
fallen out of favour is in now only used with a few medications for
specific applications. Aquarisol for example, is very convenient as a
colourless non-staining method for killing Ich in empty tanks and when
used as a net dip. Copper exposure for fish would be similar to our
ingesting a mineral which is known to be poisonous to us (copper isn't).
Small dosages for a short while are ok. Longer time period and it's in
our tissue. Higher dosage and we get sick and die.

Pennies in particular are an uncontrolled method of dispensing copper.
The copper % in the penny varies by year and country, and the rate it
leeches will depend on your acidity and pH swings. You have taken the
worst problem with copper treatments (the narrow difference between toxic
and non-toxic dosages, and made it worst). In a hard-water alkaline
tank, the results might be insignificant, while the same copper pennies
in a sof****er acidic tank could very quickly be fatal.

Malachite green is the recognized method to kill Ich, and it's available
with a variety of carriers (quinine hydrochloride, formalin, etc). I
personally use Quick Cure and Nox-Ich. My perception is that Nox-Ich
works better, though the formalin in the Quick Cure should be more
effective overall. Clout is also effective for more stubborn cases, but
I start with the lowest dosage/safest/weakest product which I think will
do the job. It really annoying when the patient dies from the medication
;~)

There has been lots of research on Ich (hopefully that's what you have
and not Velvet). These are my links from the last time I researched it,
though I'm sure that some are now outdated.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/ treat 16 days
http://www.actwin.com/fish/articles/disease/ick2.php treat 12-16 days
http://www.aquarium.net/0197/0197_1.shtml no medicine 4-5 days
http://www.e-aquaria.com/ins_ich.html treat 12-16 days
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/scripts/FA041 treat 6-10 days
http://www.angelfire.com/or2/cichlid102/Disease/diseases.htm#Ich treat
12-16 days
http://texaserc.tamu.edu/pubs/efish/476fs.pdf large scale treatment

NetMax